The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1

[sunsbg]

Lmao. Buying one is not the same as buying one maintaining it and not living in it because you’re now homeless.

Ishbia bought cheap tires so I assume he's homeless now. In assets(picks) he's a poor bastard. I agree with that too.

KD is a Lambo Sian. Worth about the same new or used. Stop disrespecting greatness cuz you’re in your feelings.

We can only hope there is one GM as delusional as you and Ishbia.

[sunsfan1o1]

Ishbia bought cheap tires so I assume he's homeless now. In assets(picks) he's a poor bastard. I agree with that too.

KD is a Lambo Sian. Worth about the same new or used. Stop disrespecting greatness cuz you’re in your feelings.

We can only hope there is one GM as delusional as you and Ishbia.

It’s not delusion. Delusion would be accepting Ware, Rozier and Robinson and trash picks.
Obviously buyers will never want to pay asking price for anything in any market.
GMs will always try to get away with robbery.
Hopefully James Jones isn’t delusional as you to give away KD for peanuts.
KD has value. His value is the same as what we purchased him for. If no one can afford it we’re not gonna be suckers and give them what they want. Just keep KD and keep it moving.
That’s how bosses move.

[sunsbg]

KD is a Lambo Sian. Worth about the same new or used. Stop disrespecting greatness cuz you’re in your feelings.

We can only hope there is one GM as delusional as you and Ishbia.

It’s not delusion. Delusion would be accepting Ware, Rozier and Robinson and trash picks.
Obviously buyers will never want to pay asking price for anything in any market.
GMs will always try to get away with robbery.
Hopefully James Jones isn’t delusional as you to give away KD for peanuts.
KD has value. His value is the same as what we purchased him for. If no one can afford it we’re not gonna be suckers and give them what they want. Just keep KD and keep it moving.
That’s how bosses move.

Don't forget to show up when KD deal is done.

[SunsRback4Good]

We can only hope there is one GM as delusional as you and Ishbia.

It’s not delusion. Delusion would be accepting Ware, Rozier and Robinson and trash picks.
Obviously buyers will never want to pay asking price for anything in any market.
GMs will always try to get away with robbery.
Hopefully James Jones isn’t delusional as you to give away KD for peanuts.
KD has value. His value is the same as what we purchased him for. If no one can afford it we’re not gonna be suckers and give them what they want. Just keep KD and keep it moving.
That’s how bosses move.

Don't forget to show up when KD deal is done.

When KD is traded, I’ll show up naked and dance the night away.

[sasquatchBob]

Man, we should send KD to Nuggets for MPJ and their picks. Just for the sake of beautiful basketball. I think someone like KD is exactly what Nuggets are missing. Imagine him and Jokic together. Were gonna suck next season anyway. MPJ is not important. We just need the picks.

[sunsfan1o1]

We can only hope there is one GM as delusional as you and Ishbia.

It’s not delusion. Delusion would be accepting Ware, Rozier and Robinson and trash picks.
Obviously buyers will never want to pay asking price for anything in any market.
GMs will always try to get away with robbery.
Hopefully James Jones isn’t delusional as you to give away KD for peanuts.
KD has value. His value is the same as what we purchased him for. If no one can afford it we’re not gonna be suckers and give them what they want. Just keep KD and keep it moving.
That’s how bosses move.

Don't forget to show up when KD deal is done.

I don’t think KD gets traded. I think we’re gonna get a smarter GM and coach and make moves for better role players. Because KD is who we want KD to be.
Bud lost the locker room around December. No one played hard for him.
We traded our heart in Okogie
We downgraded from Nurkic to the trash we have now.
We had more injuries.
A tough schedule and no chemistry.
Again KD is not the problem. The only reason you consider trading him because he should bring back the most value of any of our players.
If GMs wanna disrespect like our own Suns fans then you keep KD and Booker and maybe buyout or stretch Beal.
I would only trade or buyout Beal if we absolutely must.
Beal was not the problem either other than his injuries.
When he played he played well and played better defense than Booker and KD.
Royal Ivey would be a good coach to get.
Or even Malone or Mike Brown.
This team is wayyyyyyyy better than 36 wins.
I think the current roster is a top 4 team with the right coach.
I think we’re top 2 if we get rid of the redundancy of Allen, Royce, Tyus, Oso, Plumlee, Richards, Lee

[Slim Charless]

Man, we should send KD to Nuggets for MPJ and their picks. Just for the sake of beautiful basketball. I think someone like KD is exactly what Nuggets are missing. Imagine him and Jokic together. Were gonna suck next season anyway. MPJ is not important. We just need the picks.

They don't have picks. That's a s h i t t y trade. If you wanna root for the Nuggets fine, don't try and make it seem like you're helping our team.

[sasquatchBob]

Man, we should send KD to Nuggets for MPJ and their picks. Just for the sake of beautiful basketball. I think someone like KD is exactly what Nuggets are missing. Imagine him and Jokic together. Were gonna suck next season anyway. MPJ is not important. We just need the picks.

They don't have picks. That's a s h i t t y trade. If you wanna root for the Nuggets fine, don't try and make it seem like you're helping our team.

I have just given up. We have to trade Booker but we wont. Another 10 year depression is coming

[ChuckS]

Clearly you don’t get it. The cheap wheels is Richards, Allen, oneale, Tyus jones, no point guard last year, incompetent coach
KD is the Lambo. People who can afford to maintain a Lambo do not sell their Lambo for less than value. They do not put cheap stuff on their Lambo. They don’t get a hysterical wife or teenage son to drive their Lambo.
Cheap wheels on a lambo will not win a race against other Lambos that have competent drivers

You've no clue about nba trades or car trades either. It's not that hard to open a car sales site and compare Lambo prices based on year.

Its tough to talk honestly with Booker and Durant stans because they see the 27ppg and think thats good enough - they have done their part. But it seems to be a consistent pattern with Durant except for his years in GSW. Booker needed CP3

But I do think Booker will get better without Durant. I still wouldn't extend him for at least a year if not two. And my guess, that is all he cares about

It's weird. In his two years with Durant his numbers were almost identical to two of his years with CP3.In a somewhat down 2025, he averaged exactly the same as in 2021, 25.6 points. In 2022 he averaged 26.8 with CP3, 27.1 in 2024 with Durant, and was an all star in both years. His efficiencies in these years were also similar. We might not see a 3d year with KD but his final year with CP3 was nominally higher at 27.8. It should be remembered that in these Durant years he had one with (for all intents and purposes) no point guard, and the second with a vet minimum. So hopefully, your concerns are unfounded.

[ChuckS]

It’s not delusion. Delusion would be accepting Ware, Rozier and Robinson and trash picks.
Obviously buyers will never want to pay asking price for anything in any market.
GMs will always try to get away with robbery.
Hopefully James Jones isn’t delusional as you to give away KD for peanuts.
KD has value. His value is the same as what we purchased him for. If no one can afford it we’re not gonna be suckers and give them what they want. Just keep KD and keep it moving.
That’s how bosses move.

Don't forget to show up when KD deal is done.

When KD is traded, I’ll show up naked and dance the night away.

Awesome. That should kill any Suns' desire to trade.

[Slim Charless]

Welp. We are 1 more Heat loss away from starting the 1st team pushing for KD derby. Also, hopefully our next coach coming in for an interview.

[Ghost of Kleine]

The Durant trade was not an overpay. The issue was trading Ayton for Nurkic then Nurkic for the guy we have now.
I was fine with trading for Beal. But it made no sense to downgrade from Ayton and then downgrade again from Nurkic.
So again the coach and GM have been the problem.
If we kept Nurkic and Okogie we would’ve made the playoffs

Not an overpay from the premise of KDs' talent of course. But it was absolutely an overpay from the position of surrendered assets and the circumstantial conditions around the trade. Bgood made some really excellent points about this. KDs' clout and superstar ability to influence/ direct his destination outcome could/should notbbe overstated enough here.

KD being the historically great superstar had/ has ultimate influence determining his trade outcome by virtue of his position in the league. That's distinct leverage for us. He only wanted Phoenix, and could have forced his way here which he did. Otherwise demanded and immediate trade from any other team that he might have been traded to, or sat out, or created a media nightmare for Brooklyn.

And in an era of ultimate player influence/ empowerment, if Brooklyn didn't work directly with KD to accommodate his preferences, then Brooklyn would be internally (amongst the players) rejected by the vast majority of other high influence/ top tier talent and star players that would have otherwise considered going there via trades or free agency.

Players especially players with clout/:power amongst the league dictate such outcomes. This us the same argument often still made today in having to work with star/ superstar players on their wishlist destinations.. lol.

It just is what it is man.

Also, when you look at the full cumulative amount of assets given up, I believe it equates to around 8 unprotected 1sts and 5 swaps (cumulative context) from what we gage up initially and from what they were able to flip for Bridges too.

But more importantly from a strategic lens, we vastly overpaid in that we completely gutted our depth, assets/ picks in that deal for him, rather than negotiating from a position of strength to at the very least keep Bridges and perhaps 1-2 picks in the deal.

Had we done so, then our equity of outcome from the trade might be very different today! We'd have had much better depth and roster balance around KD and some modicum of assets to make other necessity moves that we obviously couldn't make these past seasons as a result of giving up everything we did so hastily in that trade.

Yet another example of Ishbias' rash and compulsive acting without any foresight! Make fast moves before assessing outcome or consequences. You just can't totally gut your team's depth AND all of your assets to replenish that depth in the same trade, and expect a favorable outcome. Classic new owner syndrome in wanting to make a big splashy move for attention.

KDs ' talent would fully validate around 70-80% of what we gave up! But that other 20-30% premised value was critical to proper roster reconstruction around KD that we no longer had.

And the Beal trade ( I like Beal and want to logically keep him for the next two seasons) was an even worse example of embarassingly mismanagement and egregious overpay under his specific conditions. I argued this fairly vehemently at the time. Lastly, the Ayron trade along with the previous Beal trade sealed our fate more than anything else.

It wasn’t an overpay.
If you pay asking price for a Lamborghini, then go change the wheels and put a bunch of aftermarket junk on it you didn’t overpay for the Lamborghini. You just mismanaged your high value car.
Trading Ayton for Nurkic was like putting cheap tires on the Lamborghini. Then trading Nurkic for Richard’s was putting even cheaper tires on it. Then you go a complain about the Lambo. The Lambo isn’t the problem. The problem is the idiot putting cheap wheels on an expensive car and expecting it to perform the same way.
Now if you wanna sell the Lambo the new owner will put the appropriate wheels back on the Lambo and will experience the high performance car the way it’s supposed to be experienced

Like the analogy man.
Now if a person intends to buy a Lamborghini, that person should also have an understanding of if they can actually afford it given the context of their situation and/ or understanding the implied costs of upkeep, the associated lifestyle correlates, etc.

If someone sells all of their belongings, blows there life savings, and mortgages their home just to get something very expensive and fancy to show off, that doesn't mean that's a smart decision if they don't have the ability to maintain that lifestyle and the car becomes a burden because although very nice and expensive, it doesn't really change the foundational situation by itself!

Overpaying for an aging KD regardless of how great he is/ was doesn't leave the suns with any foundational flexibility to place around him to be successful. KD although a great talent, can't carry a team to a championship by himself. Basketball is a team sport and it takes a team to when.

So without the proper supplemental pieces around him and support him, and without the actual assets to acquire those key pieces, because we hastily gave up everything for a big name without considering how to properly make it work, we overpaid and then doubled and tripled down on bad decisions that left our entire future mortgaged.

Other teams have also tried this with KD unsuccessfully too. This us why KD, although individually great, hasn't really won anything after leaving Golden state because they got him in free agency without having to give up any real assets. KD was an extravagance we really weren't in position to afford. Because we gave away all of our value in the trade, and then had nothing if value left to build successfully around him.

We further dismantled our core with the Ayton trade to try and recoup depth pieces at the expense of critical core positional pieces like Ayton and Camara trying to cut cost and create more flexibility that we foolishly gave up! It's not on KD or even Beal.

They've been everything they were known and advertised to be! It's in negligently giving up too much when you have to keep at least some assets and value to leverage in follow up moves to properly build around stars and we just didn't!

Had they not done that, we'd have had much better depth around KD and likely a much better outcome instead of what we've experienced the last couple of seasons.

[BobbieL]

Welp. We are 1 more Heat loss away from starting the 1st team pushing for KD derby. Also, hopefully our next coach coming in for an interview.

GM first. Than worry about HC

[BobbieL]

Not an overpay from the premise of KDs' talent of course. But it was absolutely an overpay from the position of surrendered assets and the circumstantial conditions around the trade. Bgood made some really excellent points about this. KDs' clout and superstar ability to influence/ direct his destination outcome could/should notbbe overstated enough here.

KD being the historically great superstar had/ has ultimate influence determining his trade outcome by virtue of his position in the league. That's distinct leverage for us. He only wanted Phoenix, and could have forced his way here which he did. Otherwise demanded and immediate trade from any other team that he might have been traded to, or sat out, or created a media nightmare for Brooklyn.

And in an era of ultimate player influence/ empowerment, if Brooklyn didn't work directly with KD to accommodate his preferences, then Brooklyn would be internally (amongst the players) rejected by the vast majority of other high influence/ top tier talent and star players that would have otherwise considered going there via trades or free agency.

Players especially players with clout/:power amongst the league dictate such outcomes. This us the same argument often still made today in having to work with star/ superstar players on their wishlist destinations.. lol.

It just is what it is man.

Also, when you look at the full cumulative amount of assets given up, I believe it equates to around 8 unprotected 1sts and 5 swaps (cumulative context) from what we gage up initially and from what they were able to flip for Bridges too.

But more importantly from a strategic lens, we vastly overpaid in that we completely gutted our depth, assets/ picks in that deal for him, rather than negotiating from a position of strength to at the very least keep Bridges and perhaps 1-2 picks in the deal.

Had we done so, then our equity of outcome from the trade might be very different today! We'd have had much better depth and roster balance around KD and some modicum of assets to make other necessity moves that we obviously couldn't make these past seasons as a result of giving up everything we did so hastily in that trade.

Yet another example of Ishbias' rash and compulsive acting without any foresight! Make fast moves before assessing outcome or consequences. You just can't totally gut your team's depth AND all of your assets to replenish that depth in the same trade, and expect a favorable outcome. Classic new owner syndrome in wanting to make a big splashy move for attention.

KDs ' talent would fully validate around 70-80% of what we gave up! But that other 20-30% premised value was critical to proper roster reconstruction around KD that we no longer had.

And the Beal trade ( I like Beal and want to logically keep him for the next two seasons) was an even worse example of embarassingly mismanagement and egregious overpay under his specific conditions. I argued this fairly vehemently at the time. Lastly, the Ayron trade along with the previous Beal trade sealed our fate more than anything else.

It wasn’t an overpay.
If you pay asking price for a Lamborghini, then go change the wheels and put a bunch of aftermarket junk on it you didn’t overpay for the Lamborghini. You just mismanaged your high value car.
Trading Ayton for Nurkic was like putting cheap tires on the Lamborghini. Then trading Nurkic for Richard’s was putting even cheaper tires on it. Then you go a complain about the Lambo. The Lambo isn’t the problem. The problem is the idiot putting cheap wheels on an expensive car and expecting it to perform the same way.
Now if you wanna sell the Lambo the new owner will put the appropriate wheels back on the Lambo and will experience the high performance car the way it’s supposed to be experienced

Like the analogy man.
Now if a person intends to buy a Lamborghini, that person should also have an understanding of if they can actually afford it given the context of their situation and/ or understanding the implied costs of upkeep, the associated lifestyle correlates, etc.

If someone sells all of their belongings, blows there life savings, and mortgages their home just to get something very expensive and fancy to show off, that doesn't mean that's a smart decision if they don't have the ability to maintain that lifestyle and the car becomes a burden because although very nice and expensive, it doesn't really change the foundational situation by itself!

Overpaying for an aging KD regardless of how great he is/ was doesn't leave the suns with any foundational flexibility to place around him to be successful. KD although a great talent, can't carry a team to a championship by himself. Basketball is a team sport and it takes a team to when.

So without the proper supplemental pieces around him and support him, and without the actual assets to acquire those key pieces, because we hastily gave up everything for a big name without considering how to properly make it work, we overpaid and then doubled and tripled down on bad decisions that left our entire future mortgaged.

Other teams have also tried this with KD unsuccessfully too. This us why KD, although individually great, hasn't really won anything after leaving Golden state because they got him in free agency without having to give up any real assets. KD was an extravagance we really weren't in position to afford. Because we gave away all of our value in the trade, and then had nothing if value left to build successfully around him.

We further dismantled our core with the Ayton trade to try and recoup depth pieces at the expense of critical core positional pieces like Ayton and Camara trying to cut cost and create more flexibility that we foolishly gave up! It's not on KD or even Beal.

They've been everything they were known and advertised to be! It's in negligently giving up too much when you have to keep at least some assets and value to leverage in follow up moves to properly build around stars and we just didn't!

Had they not done that, we'd have had much better depth around KD and likely a much better outcome instead of what we've experienced the last couple of seasons.

I will say, I was never for the KD trade but when the new CBA came it - going for Beal was stupid. I have no idea if Ishbia didn't read it or just didn't care -- but that was such a terrible trade as it took away so much flexibility

That said, the Durant trade was a shot in the dark as it took away the future and condensed the time the window was open

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

YES! Let more teams be added to the list of teams booted from.the playoffs early to increase the feelings of desperation and overal bidding war! All of these teams can increase value offers as a result!

Miami can now offer-
KD/ Richards for Rozier/ Robinson/ Ware/ Mitchell/ MIA 26' 1st / GS 25' 1st (20th pick)/ MIA 31' 1st ( Top 5 protected).

Again, Rozier and Robinson represent 48 million in cap space under the 2nd apron to not only make moves, but sign key free agents this summer. Davion Mitchell is a very solid POA upcoming defensive guard, Ware is an enticing young 3 & D center with a per 36 (starting potential) of:

15/ 12/ 2 blocks. And has a developing faceup game, 3 pt shooting and elite mobility and rim protection potential. And the picks could be leveraged in trade to return more value or used to draft cost controlled talent as needed!

But more importantly, is the number of interested teams, will only substantially escalate trade value packages in a bidding war scenario for KD. Teams like Miami, Denver, Memphis, Dallas, possibly any of Jew stork or Detroit, Lakers or Minnesota, and Houston (HOPEFULLY)! falling short only help our interests more! :nod:

[SunsRback4Good]

Don't forget to show up when KD deal is done.

When KD is traded, I’ll show up naked and dance the night away.

Awesome. That should kill any Suns' desire to trade.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Man, we should send KD to Nuggets for MPJ and their picks. Just for the sake of beautiful basketball. I think someone like KD is exactly what Nuggets are missing. Imagine him and Jokic together. Were gonna suck next season anyway. MPJ is not important. We just need the picks.

Slim is right that that Denve4 doesn't really have much in the way of picks to offer (aside from their 2031 1st which they'd absolutely have to include to even yet to the table for KD. But the overall player package isn't terrible honestly.

And really depending upon what our front office could do with those pieces coming hack, the trade could turn out more value than just what it appears to offer on the surface. Now let me point out potential value in the player package aspects of a KD to Denver trade:

MPJr--
Can modestly fill the role of a jumbo scoring wing/ forward offering production of 18/7/2 on 50% FG/ 39% 3PT/ 76% FT. Now while not KD, he'd still provide key spot up shooting and floor spacing versatility for our frontcourt! But bigger than that would be his $40 million expiring contract that comes off the books in 27' which if we're patient, combined with Beal's $57 million expiring that summer, would give us an insane $97+ million for an absurdly loaded free agency!

** He'd also be a very enticing trade asset for a number of teams needing more frontcourt scoring! Or teams with a dominant low post presence that desire floor spacing. I could easily give 5 different teams that'd have trade interest in him honestly.

Westbrook-
A cheap cost controlled high quality intangibles guard that'd be a perfect stopgap fit next to Booker. And would energize our team and fit what we're trying to evolve into culturally with toughness, grit, athleticism and physicality.

Zeke Nnaji-
Nnaji is a very versatile 6'9 240 lb power forward that offers solid 3 pt shooting and has become a very good versatile defender. Kind of a Taj Gibson/ PJ Brown utility defender with floor spacing. He'd be a great replacement player for O'neale, allowing us to trade him while getting positionally bigger and stronger defensively. And he'd also be an intruiging / low cost desirable trade chip for many teams looking for size, defensive versatility and floor spacing. He's kind of Ighodaro with shooting.

Christian Braun-
Braun would give us a very solid, 6'6 firey, young, high potential, athletic Allen replacement at SG allowing us to more easily trade Grayson for other players/ picks, etc. He's tough, gritty, very athletic, and high IQ.

Dayron Holmes-
Holmes would give us a very solid, versatile, athletic 3 & D backup 4/5 in the Bobby Portis mold but with some shotblocking too. And would be a great compliment to Ighodaro interchangeably. Or he could be used as an enticing inclusionary trade asset for any team needing size, defensive versatility and floor spacing.

Hunter Tyson-
A gritty, tenacious, athletic version of Grayson Allen. At 6'9 he'd give us very good size at shooting guard, he moves good and yas plus athleticism like Allen. And could likely also pull a 2nd or two from the right team.

DEN 2031' 1st-

By 2031' Denver very well may not even have Jokix or many of the same players, and could very likely be entertaining a rebuild scenario. That pick might give us a PREMIUM LOTTERY VALUE pick back to keep ( if we're at all smart)?? Or package in a trade for other picks/ assets??

[Slim Charless]

Man, we should send KD to Nuggets for MPJ and their picks. Just for the sake of beautiful basketball. I think someone like KD is exactly what Nuggets are missing. Imagine him and Jokic together. Were gonna suck next season anyway. MPJ is not important. We just need the picks.

They don't have picks. That's a s h i t t y trade. If you wanna root for the Nuggets fine, don't try and make it seem like you're helping our team.

I have just given up. We have to trade Booker but we wont. Another 10 year depression is coming

It'll be fine. Miami is almost done and the loser of NYK-DET will be in on it as well. Just root against HOU. That's all we need is them to jump in this KD thing.

[Saberestar]

I saw the Heat-Cavs game and Wiggins played a terrible game. I don't know why he is playing that bad in this playoffs, but it seems that he is having a tough time against the great Cavs defense.

$28M next year. $30M in 2026/27.
Duncan Robinson $20M next year.

Beal wants to play there. It can be a good option for the Heat to trade for Beal just giving up Wiggins and Duncan Robinson.

It was always a long shot to get Butler for Beal because he is a much better player, it’s not the case here with these two players.

[Calvin Klein]

don't argue with the guy who claimed Ayton was better than Jokic