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Tonight's game was the perfect example of this...

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Re: Tonight's game was the perfect example of this... 

Post#21 » by Mk0 » Fri Apr 25, 2025 10:02 pm

Lexluthor wrote:Ayo is so overrated in this board . He would be be a 8-9 man on a contender

This could have been said about a lot of guys, and here is Kris Dunn starting on the Clippers and Kawhi talking about how his defense gives him energy on that end of the court.

*Not saying you are wrong about Ayo. He probably is a 8-9 man on a contender. We won't know until he is on one.
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Re: Tonight's game was the perfect example of this... 

Post#22 » by The Force. » Sat Apr 26, 2025 4:16 pm

Bulls fans are forced to be delusional about our players due to brazen incompetence from ownership and management. We have nothing to be optimistic about so we overrate mediocre talent and latch onto false hopes that maybe this year management will steer us in the right direction. It’s a vicious cycle that will continue until the Reinsdorfs finally decide to sell the team.
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Re: Tonight's game was the perfect example of this... 

Post#23 » by coldfish » Sun Apr 27, 2025 2:45 am

Man this topic brings back memories.

Many, many years ago on this board we had a discussion on this topic and it was basically evaluating players for this. A player was effectively given a score based on how many defenders he could tie up. This was back in the Ben Wallace days before teams really got going with the flexible defenses. Regardless, a player like Keith Bogans or Ben Wallace that teams would sag off and effectively dare to do something on offense were a 0 because they tied up no defenders. A shooter who could hurt you if left open but could be neutralized with a man in his face was a 1. A multi skilled player who could frequently draw double teams or beat a man off the dribble and require help was a 2. Rare players that could draw a double and still beat them were 3's.

You basically want a 3 or several 2's with no 0's for your team offensively. This will force teams to constantly be trying to help and recover, eventually allowing for an easy bucket.

So, who on this team is a 2?

Right now, I would say no one. I don't see any players who can regularly pull double teams and as such, I suspect they would struggle in a playoff series. The only good news is that I don't think the team has any 0's. As others have noted, maybe Matas could get there with improved shooting and ballhandling.
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Re: Tonight's game was the perfect example of this... 

Post#24 » by Ice Man » Sun Apr 27, 2025 12:30 pm

coldfish wrote:So, who on this team is a 2?


Coby perhaps was during the last couple of months in the season. Teams didn't often double him, but they should have, because he torched 1v1 coverage. In the play-in game, Miami *did* treat him as a 2, but unfortunately the double team helped them rather than us, as Coby wasn't ready for that treatment.
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Re: Tonight's game was the perfect example of this... 

Post#25 » by coldfish » Sun Apr 27, 2025 12:36 pm

Ice Man wrote:
coldfish wrote:So, who on this team is a 2?


Coby perhaps was during the last couple of months in the season. Teams didn't often double him, but they should have, because he torched 1v1 coverage. In the play-in game, Miami *did* treat him as a 2, but unfortunately the double team helped them rather than us, as Coby wasn't ready for that treatment.


That's fair. That's basically a classic 2. Can beat single coverage but taken out of a game by double coverage.

If you have a group of 2's, you have a dangerous team. Its hard to double and recover against several players.

Most championship level teams are built around a 3 though. Someone who can take on and frequently beat double teams. I don't think the Bulls have a single player on the roster who can even project as a 3. That's the general problem with AKME's methodology here. Without tanking or accumulating massive assets for a trade, I'm not sure how they even get a 3.
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Re: Tonight's game was the perfect example of this... 

Post#26 » by Ice Man » Sun Apr 27, 2025 12:55 pm

coldfish wrote:That's fair. That's basically a classic 2. Can beat single coverage but taken out of a game by double coverage.

If you have a group of 2's, you have a dangerous team. Its hard to double and recover against several players.

Most championship level teams are built around a 3 though. Someone who can take on and frequently beat double teams. I don't think the Bulls have a single player on the roster who can even project as a 3. That's the general problem with AKME's methodology here. Without tanking or accumulating massive assets for a trade, I'm not sure how they even get a 3.


Agree with all of the above. We only have one sorta 2 right now, and nobody who looks to be a 3.

On the part about how to get a #3, though ... often it's just luck.

1) Jokic
2) Giannis
3) SGA (Paul George was a good player, but I wouldn't say "massive asset")
4) Steph

All #3s and none the process of tanking, unless you count Steph as a #7 pick. (Which of course we have had several times in recent years, but not with that good fortune.)

I know, I know, waiting for lightning to strike isn't a very appealing tactic. But realistically, that's what often happens.
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Re: Tonight's game was the perfect example of this... 

Post#27 » by Indomitable » Tue Apr 29, 2025 12:29 am

The Heavy were a trash team and it just shows how far we are from actually mattering.


On the other hand watching the Cavs destroy them in Miami is fun.
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