2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 9

[twix2500]

I was going to make a better illustrated video on Herro struggles with Cavs. But it just so dam depressing

No driving lanes. Look how Mobley and Allen are basically camping the paint.

Ok, find the open man. Make a quick read and react. Herro is dribbling so damn slow and dribbing in bad position to pass or shot. That is giving the defense time to set themselves up.

This is what you do. And yes Wiggins is struggling. But this is the decision you make when the Cavs bigs are cheating in the paint.

This is what bad decision playmaking looks like. If you are a scorer and playmaker, you want to draw defenders and make them pay by making the open easy pass. But too many times players are not seeing the court and playing right into the defense.

[VaDe255]

This is it. No one should be surprised--or act like its some revelation--to see the 21st ranked offense that was the 10th seed in the Eastern Conference struggle against the #1 seed (8th ranked defense). What we're seeing is 100% consistent with what we've seen all season.

It doesn't mean that there aren't avenues for improvement or development, but it just means that such is not coming in the playoffs off the back of a regular season full of drama and instability.

Just looking at their on/off numbers, as I was saying earlier the offense isn't even the big problem in this series.
With Davion/Herro/Bam on they have a 122 offensive rating, even though they got shut down in game 3, it's the fact that they are just getting demolished on defense

The Cavs are getting anything they want (and this Herro thing is getting exaggerate too, because they are just as bad when he is off).
The Cavs have a 134.1 offensive rating in this series, which is the real problem. Some of it surely is talent gap but giving up this kind of numbers is deeper than just that.

[Shewasfly]

I guess what I’m getting at is; is putting Herro in iso situations at the top of the perimeter against longer defenders the best use of his talents?

I mean if you are a guard, you should be licking your chops if a 7 footer comes out on the perimeter to defend you. Max Strus is defending Herro fullcourt and Herro is struggling to get by him. What is the matchup that Herro can dominate? You see Cavs goes right at Herro on defense with almost all their players. Is there anyone Herro can beat on the Cavs? He is your best ball handler scorer/playmaker.

There are several plays in the vid where he beat people off the dribble and ran into a wall at the rim. He didn't score 50 by accident the 1st 2 games. It's the ball denial that is causing us the problems since no one else can score reliably

Lol beat me to it. The problem for Tyler on offense has been the ball denial. He can't get free. But on ball, he has reliably gotten past defenders all season, even if his handle needs additional work. Its amplified in this series because the Cavs have ratcheted it up and decided to just not guard anyone else, so even if he gets by he has nowhere to go or is forced into a turnover.

He is often making the correct read to swing the ball to where there is soft spots in the defense. The problem is no one else capitalizing on offense. Bam and Wiggins should be EATING, but they're not.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Bam made a career high 4 3s last game, im not sure what more you all want when it comes to spacing.

Herro struggles to beat his man off the dribble, he doesn’t have the handle speed or strength to consistently do it. Herro struggles struggles in isolation situations as well, it’s why we spam screens for guys like him and Duncan. Not a knock on him, it’s just the truth on who he is as a player and how he’s being miscast in a role he doesn’t need to be in. If he’s struggling to score because he’s on ball a lot then you have a guy who isn’t scoring at a high rate and is the worst defender on the floor, gotta get that figured out but blaming a wall on why he couldn’t make a simple kick out to Mitchell or Ware on the first play Twix posted and then ignoring the rest of the video of him struggling to beat anyone isn’t it.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I was going to make a better illustrated video on Herro struggles with Cavs. But it just so dam depressing

No driving lanes. Look how Mobley and Allen are basically camping the paint.

Ok, find the open man. Make a quick read and react. Herro is dribbling so damn slow and dribbing in bad position to pass or shot. That is giving the defense time to set themselves up.

This is what you do. And yes Wiggins is struggling. But this is the decision you make when the Cavs bigs are cheating in the paint.

This is what bad decision playmaking looks like. If you are a scorer and playmaker, you want to draw defenders and make them pay by making the open easy pass. But too many times players are not seeing the court and playing right into the defense.

Yep, this is just simple basketball being played the right way. You make that kick out every time and if you don’t it’s because you lack the playmaking ability or are just being selfish trying to get your own.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

The double standards are wild lol I’ve never seen anything like it

[twix2500]

I guess what I’m getting at is; is putting Herro in iso situations at the top of the perimeter against longer defenders the best use of his talents?

I mean if you are a guard, you should be licking your chops if a 7 footer comes out on the perimeter to defend you. Max Strus is defending Herro fullcourt and Herro is struggling to get by him. What is the matchup that Herro can dominate? You see Cavs goes right at Herro on defense with almost all their players. Is there anyone Herro can beat on the Cavs? He is your best ball handler scorer/playmaker.

There are several plays in the vid where he beat people off the dribble and ran into a wall at the rim. He didn't score 50 by accident the 1st 2 games. It's the ball denial that is causing us the problems since no one else can score reliably

This is not Herro beating his man. This is Strus angling Herro into Allen on the block not respecting the corner shooter and not expecting Herro to make the right decision.

[Shewasfly]

This is it. No one should be surprised--or act like its some revelation--to see the 21st ranked offense that was the 10th seed in the Eastern Conference struggle against the #1 seed (8th ranked defense). What we're seeing is 100% consistent with what we've seen all season.

It doesn't mean that there aren't avenues for improvement or development, but it just means that such is not coming in the playoffs off the back of a regular season full of drama and instability.

Just looking at their on/off numbers, as I was saying earlier the offense isn't even the big problem in this series.
With Davion/Herro/Bam on they have a 122 offensive rating, even though they got shut down in game 3, it's the fact that they are just getting demolished on defense

The Cavs are getting anything they want (and this Herro thing is getting exaggerate too, because they are just as bad when he is off).
The Cavs have a 134.1 offensive rating in this series, which is the real problem. Some of it surely is talent gap but giving up this kind of numbers is deeper than just that.

186 DefRtg when Bam is off and Tyler and Davion are on?? Who the hell else is on the court during these times??? My God.

One thing that isn't being talked about a lot is that Ware has been insanely bad defensively as well. I really hope/think its because he's a rookie. But he gets lost constantly and cannot adequately recover on switches.

[batterybro42]

I mean if you are a guard, you should be licking your chops if a 7 footer comes out on the perimeter to defend you. Max Strus is defending Herro fullcourt and Herro is struggling to get by him. What is the matchup that Herro can dominate? You see Cavs goes right at Herro on defense with almost all their players. Is there anyone Herro can beat on the Cavs? He is your best ball handler scorer/playmaker.

There are several plays in the vid where he beat people off the dribble and ran into a wall at the rim. He didn't score 50 by accident the 1st 2 games. It's the ball denial that is causing us the problems since no one else can score reliably

Lol beat me to it. The problem for Tyler on offense has been the ball denial. He can't get free. But on ball, he has reliably gotten past defenders all season, even if his handle needs additional work. Its amplified in this series because the Cavs have ratcheted it up and decided to just not guard anyone else, so even if he gets by he has nowhere to go or is forced into a turnover.

He is often making the correct read to swing the ball to where there is soft spots in the defense. The problem is no one else capitalizing on offense. Bam and Wiggins should be EATING, but they're not.

It is hard for me to fault Herro he has just about single handedly carried this team all season long. I do not think you can pay him the max this summer though unless a true A1 star is here alongside him. Then you have to start having the conversation about trading him, and I think some of that writing in on the wall with his quotes of late.

[batterybro42]

This FO simply doesn’t have it any more, I’m not sure how anyone could argue otherwise. The ONE thing they’ve got going for them is they’ve hit on a high percentage of their draft picks recently, that’s it.

Rozier really put things in a bind. He looked good when he first got here, and then the neck injury happened. He’s been terrible since. I don’t know how much we can fault the FO for that.

That neck injury is easy to forget because it happened right at the end of the season, and our year was cut short in the playoffs. At one point they threw career ending out as a possibility for it.

I’m not sure if he had nerve damage or what exactly happened but in a lot of ways he looks like he has completely lost his game. The crazy thing is that his athleticism didn’t go anywhere, he just can’t hoop anymore.

Idk man, I think it’s just more of Rozier being ass and Spo not being able to coach a competent offense for years now. We really made our deep runs off elite defense and hot shooting at the right time

I think there are more issues sure, but if you added a microwave scorer who could go off if left on island, and knock down open threes from the wing/corner this offense looks a lot different. He was supposed to be that guy, and he was for a little. I think Butler completely gave up when he realized how cooked Terry had become. I want the whole story on that neck injury, there has to be more to that whole deal. I do not forget how he was playing when he got here, that is not the same Rozier we saw this year. This Rozier should be thinking about retirement.

[Shewasfly]

I mean if you are a guard, you should be licking your chops if a 7 footer comes out on the perimeter to defend you. Max Strus is defending Herro fullcourt and Herro is struggling to get by him. What is the matchup that Herro can dominate? You see Cavs goes right at Herro on defense with almost all their players. Is there anyone Herro can beat on the Cavs? He is your best ball handler scorer/playmaker.

There are several plays in the vid where he beat people off the dribble and ran into a wall at the rim. He didn't score 50 by accident the 1st 2 games. It's the ball denial that is causing us the problems since no one else can score reliably

This is not Herro beating his man. This is Strus angling Herro into Allen on the block not respecting the corner shooter and not expecting Herro to make the right decision.

So the right play you are referring to here is to get it to Ware, correct? But the problem is, he has not been a dependable 3 point shooter on the season and is, in fact, EXACTLY who Cleveland wants shooting the ball. So playing directly into your opponent's hands, rather than execute your own game plan. So instead, Tyler tries to get further into the teeth of the defense to get it to someone who our offense would want taking the shot, but travels in hitting the wall.

[VaDe255]

Just realized Terry came here and was hoping to play some playoff basketball and now he still has not seen a single playoff game, brutal.

[batterybro42]

blow it up i just think i cant handle another poor azz season. with these players, its time to rebuild from TOP TO BOTTOM. FO should start by firing themselves by getting this poor show running

edit: pat riley must go and so spoelstra they cant attract anyone here because of what happened with lebron and now jimmy. until these ppl are let go we are going to be the laughingstock of the league because the game has past them

Wild take take a step back and relax

I’m all for blowing up the team but Spo isn’t going anywhere and Riley has earned the right to do as he pleases and leave on his time.

If Spo did ever go to the front office I want the Gundy brothers coaching the team together.

Hard no to Stan Van

Still haven’t forgiven him for benching Wade game 6 in the playoffs against the Pacers for the final possession

That is why you have Jeff on the staff as well

This is what has nobody has gotten right about the Gundy Bros. Separate they have their shortcomings and issues, put them together and they will likely brawl on the sideline before somebody does something stupid like that.

If you are going to make a move where Spo transcends to the FO, and we reset things, I think the Gundy bros are the perfect people to man the ship during that type of transition.

[Shewasfly]

There are several plays in the vid where he beat people off the dribble and ran into a wall at the rim. He didn't score 50 by accident the 1st 2 games. It's the ball denial that is causing us the problems since no one else can score reliably

Lol beat me to it. The problem for Tyler on offense has been the ball denial. He can't get free. But on ball, he has reliably gotten past defenders all season, even if his handle needs additional work. Its amplified in this series because the Cavs have ratcheted it up and decided to just not guard anyone else, so even if he gets by he has nowhere to go or is forced into a turnover.

He is often making the correct read to swing the ball to where there is soft spots in the defense. The problem is no one else capitalizing on offense. Bam and Wiggins should be EATING, but they're not.

It is hard for me to fault Herro he has just about single handedly carried this team all season long. I do not think you can pay him the max this summer though unless a true A1 star is here alongside him. Then you have to start having the conversation about trading him, and I think some of that writing in on the wall with his quotes of late.

Yeah that quote was wild. Does anyone have the full video or at least article? I still don't even know wtf the context around the question was that he was asked for that to be the response.

[greg4012]

I mean if you are a guard, you should be licking your chops if a 7 footer comes out on the perimeter to defend you. Max Strus is defending Herro fullcourt and Herro is struggling to get by him. What is the matchup that Herro can dominate? You see Cavs goes right at Herro on defense with almost all their players. Is there anyone Herro can beat on the Cavs? He is your best ball handler scorer/playmaker.

There are several plays in the vid where he beat people off the dribble and ran into a wall at the rim. He didn't score 50 by accident the 1st 2 games. It's the ball denial that is causing us the problems since no one else can score reliably

This is not Herro beating his man. This is Strus angling Herro into Allen on the block not respecting the corner shooter and not expecting Herro to make the right decision.

Big man funnel system is one of the more common defenses in the NBA (especially for a team where the their strength is a defensive frontcourt). Surprised people see it as anything else.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Ware has probably been our worst player this series, it’s between him and Wiggins. I’ve been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt though because hes a rookie, he’s going up against arguably the best defensive front court in the league, and he’s just completely outmatched. Again; no playmaking on this roster from the perimeter which is a huge detriment to him but he’s not even providing any type of defense. That’s been my only disappointment, he’s been torched on that end and just looks lost, he single handedly killed our 1st quarter momentum last game

[greg4012]

This is it. No one should be surprised--or act like its some revelation--to see the 21st ranked offense that was the 10th seed in the Eastern Conference struggle against the #1 seed (8th ranked defense). What we're seeing is 100% consistent with what we've seen all season.

It doesn't mean that there aren't avenues for improvement or development, but it just means that such is not coming in the playoffs off the back of a regular season full of drama and instability.

Just looking at their on/off numbers, as I was saying earlier the offense isn't even the big problem in this series.
With Davion/Herro/Bam on they have a 122 offensive rating, even though they got shut down in game 3, it's the fact that they are just getting demolished on defense

The Cavs are getting anything they want (and this Herro thing is getting exaggerate too, because they are just as bad when he is off).
The Cavs have a 134.1 offensive rating in this series, which is the real problem. Some of it surely is talent gap but giving up this kind of numbers is deeper than just that.

186 DefRtg when Bam is off and Tyler and Davion are on?? Who the hell else is on the court during these times??? My God.

One thing that isn't being talked about a lot is that Ware has been insanely bad defensively as well. I really hope/think its because he's a rookie. But he gets lost constantly and cannot adequately recover on switches.

Ware has been completely lost this playoffs. One of the perceived positives for Miami making the playoffs was to get the young guys some experience/exposure. Hopefully this is an eye opener that he can learn from bc it damn sure hasn't been pretty lol

[twix2500]

Ware has probably been our worst player this series, it’s between him and Wiggins. I’ve been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt though because hes a rookie, he’s going up against arguably the best defensive front court in the league, and he’s just completely outmatched. Again; no playmaking on this roster from the perimeter which is a huge detriment to him but he’s not even providing any type of defense. That’s been my only disappointment, he’s been torched on that end and just looks lost, he single handedly killed our 1st quarter momentum last game

Its not a surprise, he is going against team with two all-star veteran bigs.

[jbsays]

Any championship caliber team has 3 (or 4) max guys. Herro's going to get paid. Even bad teams do. Look at the payrolls. The teams at the bottom (like Magic) are teams that haven't had the max contracts kick in. You got Bam and Herro at their maxes and have to figure out how to combine Wiggins, Rozier, and Robinson into another guy.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Interesting enough when we go big with Bam/Ware on the court together we have a 105 DRTG and a +7 net rating. That seems like a pretty big deal….