2024-2025 NBA Playoffs Round 1, Game 4: (2) Boston Celtics at (7) Orlando Magic - 7pm ET

[zaymon]

Paolo took 32 shots (12-32)....there are a lot of players better then him in the play offs that do not come close to the amount of shots he is taking. No shooter will succeed here when they get like 3 shots a game. Yes the shooters here are bad however taking 32 and freezing out the rest will not get them into rhythm or lead to wins in the long run. I was glad someone in the press conference actually confronted Paolo with the 32 shot stat. The worst thing that can happen is if he turns into a Carmelo...that is not winning basketball.

A lot of it is on the coaching staff where the offensive plan this season is to give the ball to Paolo or Franz en the other 4 stand around and do nothing. It creates bad habits and is a bad offensive system. Losing to Boston is to be expected however some things need to change for next season (and not just the internal growth Weltman cult stuff and Franz fixing his 3....). When Corey Joseph is the starting PG you have a problem.

Yup. That's the gripe i've had with Paolo, Franz, and our current offense. Most of the time people are just in watch and see mode.... and out of nowhere you get the ball when the clock is low and you just... "JACK IT UP". The ball makes it across the line after 6-7 seconds on most possessions... then there is a.... "dribble dribble.... probe probe... oh... i ain't got nothing... i'ma pass it out". haha. I'm sorry.... but i don't see how most players can gain confidence in themselves in that situation. like... give the ball to wendell at the high post.... relocate.... cut.... move the ball.... but instead... the ball sticks to one persons hand and so do the bodies to the floor. If you know that the ballhandler will find you when open... and the will pass up a good shot for a great shot... players get confident... make sharper/more decisive moves... are aware. Everyone loves one another.... but that kind of teamwork and trust has gone stale as the season progressed. Even with the same team... i would not be surprised how big of an improvement we could have. And at the end of the day... even with the ball movement and mismatches... the ball will end up in the hands of our most talented players at the end of the day.

Those are the best arguments i take from this season and playoffs.
Some attribute it more to coaching, some like me attribute it more to our forwards especially Paolo(but also coaching)and some think our shooters need to be efficient even without rhytm or should create their own space/rhytm.
Something is wrong with this team. We hear every other post game about ball movement but the ball still sticks. Sometimes even Franz gets visibly frustrated.

[eyriq]

When "toxic optimism" is part of the regular vocabulary, and when positive posters get written off as unserious or accused of lowering the collective IQ, it is pretty clear that negativity is being gatekept as the only acceptable stance. It stops being about realism and turns into enforcing a narrow range of thinking, where anything short of pessimism is treated like a threat to credibility.

[Skybox]

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I for one will look back at Paolo fondly when he goes to LA after we fail to put decent talent around him.

Better hope nobody moves to Seattle ...rumor has it that NOLA can't support a team financially.

[Skybox]

When "toxic optimism" is part of the regular vocabulary, and when positive posters get written off as unserious or accused of lowering the collective IQ, it is pretty clear that negativity is being gatekept as the only acceptable stance. It stops being about realism and turns into enforcing a narrow range of thinking, where anything short of pessimism is treated like a threat to credibility.

Well said...

counterpoint: ridiculous takes, delivered with optimism, make smart people nuts

[eyriq]

When "toxic optimism" is part of the regular vocabulary, and when positive posters get written off as unserious or accused of lowering the collective IQ, it is pretty clear that negativity is being gatekept as the only acceptable stance. It stops being about realism and turns into enforcing a narrow range of thinking, where anything short of pessimism is treated like a threat to credibility.

Well said...

counterpoint: ridiculous takes, delivered with optimism, make smart people nuts

Sure, ridiculous takes are frustrating no matter how they are delivered. But pretending that optimism automatically makes a take ridiculous is exactly the kind of negativity gatekeeping I am talking about. Smart people should be able to tell the difference between bad logic and a reasonable, evidence-based positive outlook. Not all optimism is unserious, and not all pessimism is wise.

[Skybox]

When "toxic optimism" is part of the regular vocabulary, and when positive posters get written off as unserious or accused of lowering the collective IQ, it is pretty clear that negativity is being gatekept as the only acceptable stance. It stops being about realism and turns into enforcing a narrow range of thinking, where anything short of pessimism is treated like a threat to credibility.

Well said...

counterpoint: ridiculous takes, delivered with optimism, make smart people nuts

Sure, ridiculous takes are frustrating no matter how they are delivered. But pretending that optimism automatically makes a take ridiculous is exactly the kind of negativity gatekeeping I am talking about. Smart people should be able to tell the difference between bad logic and a reasonable, evidence-based positive outlook. Not all optimism is unserious, and not all pessimism is wise.

Agree...I don't know where you're located, but there's a WHOLE lot of pessimism and misery in the States right now...it could definitely spread as a general vibe into your job, your driving, your marriage, and (most importantly) the Trade Thread.

[basketballRob]

I think it's the opposite. Posters have unrealistic expectations for young players. They can't factor in situations and age when evaluating players.

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[VFX]

When "toxic optimism" is part of the regular vocabulary, and when positive posters get written off as unserious or accused of lowering the collective IQ, it is pretty clear that negativity is being gatekept as the only acceptable stance. It stops being about realism and turns into enforcing a narrow range of thinking, where anything short of pessimism is treated like a threat to credibility.

Nobody is enforcing you to be negative.

You are gaslighting people by telling them they aren’t seeing what they are watching.

I can like AB, think he’s a useful player with great potential for Orlando, while also simultaneously believing he isn’t a starting point guard.

I can buy into the idea that Paolo and Franz are great individual scorers capable of leading a correctly built team. I can also be critical of their shortcomings and inefficiencies.

I can be super pro Suggs here to a ridiculous level while also admitting he’s entirely too injury prone so far in his career.

You can make informed takes that aren’t black and white. It’s not overwhelming positivity or negativity. It’s just being realistic without dying on a hill you built randomly because it’s exciting for you.

[Knightro]

How would you fix it? What moves and players do you think we should look to make this off season? I am not asking sarcastically, I genuinely curious and trying to be serious with this.

What I would do and what they're going to do are not at all aligned. I'd fire Weltman and Mosley and possibly overhaul a huge percentage of the roster. I don't think they will do any of those things.

As far as what they will do...

They need to acquire a guard capable of consistently beating defenders off the dribble to get into the lane and create offense for themselves and more importantly for other players.

And they need to overhaul the offensive system to create more consistent ball and player movement.

How they do those things is really on them to figure out.

[Knightro]

When "toxic optimism" is part of the regular vocabulary, and when positive posters get written off as unserious or accused of lowering the collective IQ, it is pretty clear that negativity is being gatekept as the only acceptable stance. It stops being about realism and turns into enforcing a narrow range of thinking, where anything short of pessimism is treated like a threat to credibility.

Well said...

counterpoint: ridiculous takes, delivered with optimism, make smart people nuts

Sure, ridiculous takes are frustrating no matter how they are delivered. But pretending that optimism automatically makes a take ridiculous is exactly the kind of negativity gatekeeping I am talking about. Smart people should be able to tell the difference between bad logic and a reasonable, evidence-based positive outlook. Not all optimism is unserious, and not all pessimism is wise.

I knew you'd take the bait

The problem isn't optimism or negativity. The problem is the CLEARLY unrealistic versions of both and the hardcore defense of things that are simply beyond the pale of reality.

You'll notice I and many others who you deem are "gatekeeping negativity" are some of the first ones to immediately shutdown nonsense from posters like SHAQ32 when he says Franz stinks and should be traded or when that guy djguerrva or whatever his name is said in all seriousness with Paolo should be traded for Deni Avdija.

Nonsense in either direction - positive or negative - should be called out for exactly what it is.

[basketballRob]

What Weltman is thinking is if we were healthy this season, we likely win 50 games. Also, our 4 lottery picks are all still developing and trending up. Why would he want to overhaul that?

The Pelicans brought in Dejounte Murray, and the GM got fired. I expect the Bucks GM to be fired next week.

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[Knightro]

What Weltman is thinking is if we were healthy this season, we likely win 50 games. Also, our 4 lottery picks are all still developing and trending up. Why would he want to overhaul that?

The Pelicans brought in Dejounte Murray, and the GM got fired. I expect the Bucks GM to be fired next week.

You're on a roll, Rob...

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[basketballRob]

What Weltman is thinking is if we were healthy this season, we likely win 50 games. Also, our 4 lottery picks are all still developing and trending up. Why would he want to overhaul that?

The Pelicans brought in Dejounte Murray, and the GM got fired. I expect the Bucks GM to be fired next week.

You're on a roll, Rob...

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I blew that prediction That was also before Lillard tore his Achilles. I still don't think he's there very long. The Bucks don't have any of their future picks, and they aren't going to be good.

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[eyriq]

When "toxic optimism" is part of the regular vocabulary, and when positive posters get written off as unserious or accused of lowering the collective IQ, it is pretty clear that negativity is being gatekept as the only acceptable stance. It stops being about realism and turns into enforcing a narrow range of thinking, where anything short of pessimism is treated like a threat to credibility.

Nobody is enforcing you to be negative.

You are gaslighting people by telling them they aren’t seeing what they are watching.

I can like AB, think he’s a useful player with great potential for Orlando, while also simultaneously believing he isn’t a starting point guard.

I can buy into the idea that Paolo and Franz are great individual scorers capable of leading a correctly built team. I can also be critical of their shortcomings and inefficiencies.

I can be super pro Suggs here to a ridiculous level while also admitting he’s entirely too injury prone so far in his career.

You can make informed takes that aren’t black and white. It’s not overwhelming positivity or negativity. It’s just being realistic without dying on a hill you built randomly because it’s exciting for you.

Disagreeing on a player's future potential, like with Anthony Black as a point guard, is not gaslighting. It is just a different projection based on weighting development paths differently. Believing a young player can grow into a larger role is not the same as denying their current limitations. We can have different evaluations without needing to frame optimism itself as dishonest or delusional.

[eyriq]

Well said...

counterpoint: ridiculous takes, delivered with optimism, make smart people nuts

Sure, ridiculous takes are frustrating no matter how they are delivered. But pretending that optimism automatically makes a take ridiculous is exactly the kind of negativity gatekeeping I am talking about. Smart people should be able to tell the difference between bad logic and a reasonable, evidence-based positive outlook. Not all optimism is unserious, and not all pessimism is wise.

I knew you'd take the bait

The problem isn't optimism or negativity. The problem is the CLEARLY unrealistic versions of both and the hardcore defense of things that are simply beyond the pale of reality.

You'll notice I and many others who you deem are "gatekeeping negativity" are some of the first ones to immediately shutdown nonsense from posters like SHAQ32 when he says Franz stinks and should be traded or when that guy djguerrva or whatever his name is said in all seriousness with Paolo should be traded for Deni Avdija.

Nonsense in either direction - positive or negative - should be called out for exactly what it is.

You keep trying to frame yourself as some neutral voice of reason, but your own posts say otherwise. Firing the front office, firing the coach, blowing up the roster, this is pure bias dressed up as objectivity. You aren't calling balls and strikes. You are constantly setting a pessimistic baseline and then acting like anyone who doesn't live in that same space is unserious. That is exactly the negativity gatekeeping I was talking about, and trying to hide it behind "realism" doesn't change what it is.

[basketballRob]

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[CLosP]

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Hopefully not after what happened last night. Might as well trade for Kyrie.

[RichCollab]

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Dame at 20 million a year maybe.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

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Dame at 20 million a year maybe.

he tore his achilles last night so he's out, unfortunate for him big time

[basketballRob]

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Dame at 20 million a year maybe.

he tore his achilles last night so he's out, unfortunate for him big time

His career might be over.

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