Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season

[ReasonablySober]

It was a very good post. A counterpoint to that is all of that was done under a CBA that doesn't exist now.

[Baddy Chuck]

I don't think the CBA prevents you from making good moves.

[ReasonablySober]

I don't think the CBA prevents you from making good moves.

Sure, but the moves that actually moved the needle required something the Bucks don't have: a bunch of 1st round picks and assets. Holiday required three firsts and two pick swaps. Lillard required Holiday, a 1st, and two pick swaps.

The Bucks don't have anything near that capital. They're completely screwed.

[emunney]

I feel the need to point out that Giannis is rare enough as a player that to feel somewhat assured you'd eventually recoup value, you'd need like 3-5 #1 overall picks. He's good enough that even good top picks stink compared to him. Like we're all fawning over Flagg and comparing him to Anthony Davis, but not a single person here would take AD over Giannis. And AD was a home run pick.

If he requests a trade would you do it?

After doing absolutely everything in my power to avert? Yes.

[Baddy Chuck]

I don't think the CBA prevents you from making good moves.

Sure, but the moves that actually moved the needle required something the Bucks don't have: a bunch of 1st round picks and assets. Holiday required three firsts and two pick swaps. Lillard required Holiday, a 1st, and two pick swaps.

The Bucks don't have anything near that capital. They're completely screwed.

I think the whole point of that "very good post" was that we were pretty damn close without any of that stuff.

[ReasonablySober]

I feel the need to point out that Giannis is rare enough as a player that to feel somewhat assured you'd eventually recoup value, you'd need like 3-5 #1 overall picks. He's good enough that even good top picks stink compared to him. Like we're all fawning over Flagg and comparing him to Anthony Davis, but not a single person here would take AD over Giannis. And AD was a home run pick.

If he requests a trade would you do it?

After doing absolutely everything in my power to avert? Yes.

That's where the Bucks are right now. They've done absolutely every possible thing. They brought in Damian Freaking Lillard and sent out every last asset available that teams might want. It's over.

[drew881]

I think winning is important to Giannis, but I also think being the Franchise icon is also as important to him. I think you can sell him on sticking around and trying the best to put competition around him, but also admitting that he could just be the bridge to the next group of players, showing them the "Bucks' way" that he helps shape. Can even bring back Thanasis if we're feeling nasty.

I think Giannis will want to stay here and try to avg 40 or do some other kind of ridiculous stats things in quest of another mvp. He has kind of felt like a stats and accolades guy the last few years since getting the championship.

[aboveAverage]

I think this has generally always been the case, so you're saying nothing changes, really.

What I think needs to be different now is that we should be having a real honest conversation with ourselves (as the FO) and Giannis about what the future actually looks like, including the fact that 'our best to create a more cohesive team' is going to be really freaking hard. That's not to encourage him to ask out, but rather to ensure you are sure as **** he won't two years from now when things very very presumably don't turn around. Because if he truly wants to stick it out, great, I'll watch him and hope for the best as long as I can, but I fear he's eventually going to want to call it (totally understandably tbh) and we'll be in a much worse place to recoup assets.

I think this will be the loyalty test from both sides to stay together.

Some considerations:
- it took 50 years for us to find someone as good as KAJ
- it may take 50 more years to find someone as good as Giannis
- solid players may take discounts to play with Giannis (e.g. Trent)
- trading him may relegate us to FTD year ceilings, like old times

Looking back on the 2018-2019 roster, our non-Giannis core players were acquired:
- Middleton: as a throw-in in the Knight trade (sure it took some time to bake)
- Bledsoe: via bad contract, future first
- Lopez: as an unwanted FA for cheap
- Brogdon: via second round pick
- Connaughton: as a cheap FA

This team was an overtime away from a likely title.

And none of these core guys required major assets we don't currently have or couldn't get. Just great moves on the margins.

There is no reason we couldn't do it again.

Entertaining the idea of trading Giannis because we sucked under Doc Rivers is pure insanity. Doc Rivers is a joke. I feel like I am in a fever dream reading some these posts.

Absolutely. The main problem here is Doc. Get a good head coach and see what we’re working with next season. Don’t overreact to a Doc rivers choke job, just get him out of here this offseason.

[ReasonablySober]

The main problem is next season the Bucks will have Giannis and a bunch of NBA minimums and exception signings. And Kuzma.

There isn't a coach alive that can turn this roster into one that compete with Cleveland, Boston, Indy, Detroit, or NY.

[tonyreyes123]

If the Nets get the first pick it’s a no-brainer atp

[th87]

I think this has generally always been the case, so you're saying nothing changes, really.

What I think needs to be different now is that we should be having a real honest conversation with ourselves (as the FO) and Giannis about what the future actually looks like, including the fact that 'our best to create a more cohesive team' is going to be really freaking hard. That's not to encourage him to ask out, but rather to ensure you are sure as **** he won't two years from now when things very very presumably don't turn around. Because if he truly wants to stick it out, great, I'll watch him and hope for the best as long as I can, but I fear he's eventually going to want to call it (totally understandably tbh) and we'll be in a much worse place to recoup assets.

I think this will be the loyalty test from both sides to stay together.

Some considerations:
- it took 50 years for us to find someone as good as KAJ
- it may take 50 more years to find someone as good as Giannis
- solid players may take discounts to play with Giannis (e.g. Trent)
- trading him may relegate us to FTD year ceilings, like old times

Looking back on the 2018-2019 roster, our non-Giannis core players were acquired:
- Middleton: as a throw-in in the Knight trade (sure it took some time to bake)
- Bledsoe: via bad contract, future first
- Lopez: as an unwanted FA for cheap
- Brogdon: via second round pick
- Connaughton: as a cheap FA

This team was an overtime away from a likely title.

And none of these core guys required major assets we don't currently have or couldn't get. Just great moves on the margins.

There is no reason we couldn't do it again.

Great post.

IMO, even if you made no roster moves and simply just replaced Doc with a competent head coach, the Bucks are immediately in contention for the #3 seed and are a team that could beat the Pacers or Knicks and at least give the Cavs and Celtics a series.

The people who thought I was a pessimistic jerk 6 months ago because I thought the Bucks would only win 50 games and only had a 2nd round ceiling, are probably going to think I am crazy for having such high exceptions if we simply just replaced Doc.

But I digress.....lol.

Entertaining the idea of trading Giannis because we sucked under Doc Rivers is pure insanity. Doc Rivers is a joke. I feel like I am in a fever dream reading some these posts.

Exactly. Judging any aspect of this team by how it played under Doc Rivers is a huge, huge mistake. I mean, Adrian Griffin went 30-11 (or whatever) with a team Doc could barely crack .500 on.

It's clear what the problem is!

And I read your posts not as pessimistic, but as lamenting the team not reaching its potential. I agree most of the time - the players are rarely put in position to maximally succeed, being saddled with bad coaches, bad schemes, etc.

[th87]

It was a very good post. A counterpoint to that is all of that was done under a CBA that doesn't exist now.

It's also a very different NBA. We're getting our doors blown off by a team of two "silver-tier" stars (maybe PP remembers this analysis/list) and complementary role players who are well coached. This wasn't possible a few years ago when it was more of a superstar league.

And there is nothing in the new CBA that prevents adding under-the-radar contributors. We ourselves have recently acquired Trent, Green, Porter, and Sims in this way. Get more of those instead of chasing names. The superteam + scrubs era is over. And this is a blessing for us.

[Baddy Chuck]

The main problem is next season the Bucks will have Giannis and a bunch of NBA minimums and exception signings. And Kuzma.

There isn't a coach alive that can turn this roster into one that compete with Cleveland, Boston, Indy, Detroit, or NY.

I would imagine the point would not be that there's a 1 season cure all though. Obviously you have to have Giannis signed up. That's the first step, maybe it doesn't happen, maybe it does. You build with the hopes that the landscape changes, things bounce your way, Giannis stays Giannis, guys grow around him, etc. Though swap candidates, we have firsts to use every other year. A guy like Jimmy Butler just got traded for a first round pick, Cavs got Jarrett Allen for a first, countless other "good deals" have been had by teams. Two years from now, with guys expiring and the cap exploding, you're likely set to be huge free agent players. What if Giannis pulls a LeBron and is great until he's 40? That's a long window. It could be rough for a few seasons, just as it was for someone like GS after their run, but it's doable.

Obviously would would be really difficult with luck included but I don't know, I don't see the route without Giannis being a lot easier.

[th87]

The main problem is next season the Bucks will have Giannis and a bunch of NBA minimums and exception signings. And Kuzma.

There isn't a coach alive that can turn this roster into one that compete with Cleveland, Boston, Indy, Detroit, or NY.

Our core players going forward are Giannis, KPJ, Green, Trent, Portis, and maybe Rollins and Sims.

On 2018's 60-win team, it was Giannis, Middleton, Bledsoe, Brogdon, Lopez, Connaughton.

As a crude analysis, can KPJ become as good as Bledsoe? I think he's definitely surpassed his playoff form. Is Trent better than PC? Yes. Can Green reach Brogdon? Possibly. Lopez can probably be covered with Portis + Sims (who are probably better playoff players). The void of Middleton will certainly not be easy to fill, and we'll probably never find someone quite as good, but it's not impossible to find a scorer who hasn't reached his potential yet (e.g. Powell got traded for scraps for years).

This is where Horst has to go back to his old style of finding undervalued contributors (e.g. Bogdanovic was a great move Woj robbed us of), rather than chasing washed up names.

[drone3]

#1 issue to address is coach, with the right guy in charge we can do some damage with the hulk and the ragtags

[Sigra]

I am in "trade Giannis" camp. Will not be upset if we keep him for rest of his career either.

[Buckfan76]

I am in "trade Giannis" camp. Will not be upset if we keep him for rest of his career either.

I agree 100%. I think we have to seriously entertain trading Giannis this off-season. As previously spoken I would talk to Houston whose about to lose to GSW 1st. Then maybe OKC if they don't win the finals. Maybe the Spurs but would have to be like a 3 or 4 team deal.

I think we are stuck with Kuzma. His playoffs play has been not good to put it nicely. Next off-season we see if we can flip Dame if he doesn't decide to retire depending on the severity of his injury.

[midranger]

I know everyone loves Suki, but her track record of getting players to/through the playoffs is absolutely terrible.

Dame is a 35 year old dude coming off a month+ long non bball issue. Achilles is the obvious injury here going back to full bball over like a 4 day span. I’m not sure what they were doing during that clot month, but the fact it blew 2 games into the return tells me it wasn’t the right stuff.

She can be fired any day, imo.

[pifhluk23]

I'm trading Giannis whether he requests it or not. I'm done with the hero ball top heavy roster that is the complete opposite of how you win in the NBA now. I'd much rather root for a young rebuilding team that's playing the right way. There is no shot at a title next year and likely no shot 26/27 season, it's time to reboot.

[midranger]

Dame for Rozier and Duncan Robinson (both expiring contracts) works, and saves like $7 million next year.

Not sure how interested everyone is in clearing that final year of Dame.