Can we stop pretending like old school NBA playoff games are more physical than they are now?

[Ice Man]

The early 90s were rough. Things actually got more physical in the mid-90s Which, I think, is the entire point of the thread.

We all agree, at least almost all, that the Nineties were rougher than previous generations. The debate is whether they were rougher than today.

[Jamaaliver]

We all agree, at least almost all, that the Nineties were rougher than previous generations. The debate is whether they were rougher than today.

Alright.

For those who actually grew up watching each of the past 3 or 4 decades of basketball -- in real time - is this a legit question?

Is there a legitimate argument that the pace and space era of the 2020s is more physical than the grind it out era where scoring was down so much that the NBA changed the rules of the games -- multiple times -- to allow for a faster pace, more possessions, more freedom of movement and higher scoring?

[Jamaaliver]

[Jamaaliver]

In the olden days... a point blank statement like this (said to a man's face) would bring two dudes to blows.

Read on Twitter

[Bergmaniac]

I don't know about Ainosterhaspie, but I was certainly alive and watching games back then and I agree with them about these quotes. The level of physicality increased quite a bit after 1994 so whatever the league intended it clearly did not work.

^This is an indisputable fact. The early 90s were rough. Things actually got more physical in the mid-90s.




Which, I think, is the entire point of the thread.

So why did you post this whole article how NBA took measures to reduce physicality in 1994?

[ScrantonBulls]

I don't know about Ainosterhaspie, but I was certainly alive and watching games back then and I agree with them about these quotes. The level of physicality increased quite a bit after 1994 so whatever the league intended it clearly did not work.

^This is an indisputable fact. The early 90s were rough. Things actually got more physical in the mid-90s.




Which, I think, is the entire point of the thread.

So why did you post this whole article how NBA took measures to reduce physicality in 1994?

Because he's a troll that enjoys lowering the quality of the General Board.

It's pretty comical seeing a mod blatantly trolling the GB with regularity.

I'm just a regular member of the population here.

I get to be as obnoxious as everyone else on the GB.

[Jamaaliver]

So why did you post this whole article how NBA took measures to reduce physicality in 1994?

The young man literally asked me to provide proof of how physical the previous era was...

You've only contributed to this thread with an unsupported opinion asserting without supporting in any way a position about the relative physicality levels.

[Ainosterhaspie]

So why did you post this whole article how NBA took measures to reduce physicality in 1994?

The young man literally asked me to provide proof of how physical the previous era was...

You've only contributed to this thread with an unsupported opinion asserting without supporting in any way a position about the relative physicality levels.

How can a 1994 article inform us about the relative physicality levels between the 90s and today? Spoiler alert. It can't.

Also...

How do you define young? I was in my teens and 20s the whole 90s and watched that era as it was happening as I've already mentioned multiple times in the thread.

Even if I was in my 20s now, it'd be almost entirely irrelevant since we have video and I can watch all those games. There's no meaningful difference between watching it on TV in 1996 or on a tablet, or phone or TV today. In fact, I trust a 20 year old who watched a 90s game yesterday far more than a 50 year old who last watched a 90s game in the 90s.

--

All you've done with that article you posted is undermine your own argument. You've admitted as much though I'm not sure you realize that.

[Jamaaliver]

How can a 1994 article inform us about the relative physicality levels between the 90s and today?

Because the NBA told us, out loud, that they wanted to make the game less physical.



The league literally changed the rules - multiple times, across multiple decades - to make the game less physical.

From the landing-space rules protecting shooters to the well-chronicled disappearance of pretty much any contact at all with a ball handler, today's defender has to be, for the sake of his own survival, a careful, conservative hunter, ever respectful of space. This, in turn, leads to more rhythmic, less interrupted and ultimately cleaner avenues toward, and looks at, the basket over the majority of minutes.

...the way scorers are deployed and officiated and the increased space in which they have to operate, has never had a more conducive environment in which to flourish. The numbers we're seeing are a result of that offensive cocktail.

Freedom of movement has indeed unlocked the modern scorer...

CBS Sports -- 2023

[Ainosterhaspie]

How can a 1994 article inform us about the relative physicality levels between the 90s and today?

Because the NBA told us, out loud, that they wanted to make the game less physical.



The league literally changed the rules - multiple times, across multiple decades - to make the game less physical.

From the landing-space rules protecting shooters to the well-chronicled disappearance of pretty much any contact at all with a ball handler, today's defender has to be, for the sake of his own survival, a careful, conservative hunter, ever respectful of space. This, in turn, leads to more rhythmic, less interrupted and ultimately cleaner avenues toward, and looks at, the basket over the majority of minutes.

...the way scorers are deployed and officiated and the increased space in which they have to operate, has never had a more conducive environment in which to flourish. The numbers we're seeing are a result of that offensive cocktail.

Freedom of movement has indeed unlocked the modern scorer...

CBS Sports -- 2023

1. Plans and results don't always match. Your argument erroneously assumes they do.

2. You have already admitted that prior enforcement plans were unsuccessful as the league got more physical following the '94 changes.

3. Several videos have already been posted in this thread proving that the claimed "disappearance of pretty much any contact at all with a ball handler" is false. See video below.

4. Even if that claim was true, it still wouldn't prove that 2025 is less physical than 1995 or 1985 or any other year or period. It's describing a subset of the game, off ball action for example is not mentioned, and it does not compare it to the era in question. It's a vague claim about things being different for ball handlers, nothing more.

Watch on YouTube

[dhsilv2]

We all agree, at least almost all, that the Nineties were rougher than previous generations. The debate is whether they were rougher than today.

Alright.

For those who actually grew up watching each of the past 3 or 4 decades of basketball -- in real time - is this a legit question?

Is there a legitimate argument that the pace and space era of the 2020s is more physical than the grind it out era where scoring was down so much that the NBA changed the rules of the games -- multiple times -- to allow for a faster pace, more possessions, more freedom of movement and higher scoring?

Yes...people keep telling you this over and over again. This forum is full of 40+ year olds. We've seen the past 30 years.

[Jamaaliver]

Even if that claim was true, it still wouldn't prove that 2025 is less physical than 1995 or 1985 or any other year or period.

IDK what to tell you, young man.

The league has imposed a ton of rule changes over 20+ years to lessen the amount of physicality in the game.
Both to increase movement/scoring and for player safety.

This has resulted in fewer injuries, fewer hard fouls and fewer fights in the modern era.

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

A useful resource for looking at specific rules changes over the years:

NBA Rule Changes [1946 to present]

[Kobe187]

The game is obviously softer today then it was in the 90s BUT the NBA is trending on becoming more physical, think we hit rock bottom in softness around 2020-2023 and are on an upward trajectory for more physicality and defensive play. Letting a lot more body contact go uncalled these playoffs which is nice to see.

[ScrantonBulls]

It's got everything. Lots of regular physicality that goes uncalled. That's your handchecking (especially on Steph) and general contact on and off ball. There's a ton of chippiness. Temperature are hot and we're seeing dirty and uncalled for fouls. The king dirtbag Draymond taught his young teammates how to be dirty.

This is simply the most physical playoff series ever. Can you recall any series this physical? I'd say this takes the cake.

[Handlez]

Lol.

I mean if I just started watching basketball, I guess.

[Diop]

i remember watching the old Celtics 80s finals. I think its ainge who is annoyed after a break away basket and timeout call where he tosses the ball as hard as he can into the opponent. ref gives him a verbal warning but nothing else.
then crap like this would happen:

Watch on YouTube

it was just plain rougher back in the day. not better, as that **** not basketball, i like that they have reduced the brutality some.

the Jordan rules should never be allowed to exist.

[ScrantonBulls]

i remember watching the old Celtics 80s finals. I think its ainge who is annoyed after a break away basket and timeout call where he tosses the ball as hard as he can into the opponent. ref gives him a verbal warning but nothing else.
then crap like this would happen:

Watch on YouTube

it was just plain rougher back in the day. not better, as that **** not basketball, i like that they have reduced the brutality some.

the Jordan rules should never be allowed to exist.

No, it wasn't rougher then. Fights prove nothing about the physicality during the game. Fights have happened in every era.

Somebody told me how rough the 80s Celtics-76ers series were. I found game tape from one of their playoff games in 81 and posted it. The play was softer than baby ****. The human memory is deceiving. That game wasn't more physical then.

If you could point out a specific series I would love to watch it and see how physical it was.

[ScrantonBulls]

Somebody else said this in another thread "Pull up some tape of a more physical finals series." You won't find one. The game is more physical than it's ever been.

[bowery77]

Watch on YouTube

Maybe you could make some arguments about the regular season. But please watch this video and compare it to the current Finals. It's not even in the same realm of physicality.

These 2004 teams would be puking if they had to play in today's Finals.

This is not to denigrate these older players, the league has changed and they would adjust their games and still be dominant.

But if you compare the hand-checking, the close-outs, defense on entry passes, the separation defenders are allowing on ball-handlers - it's not even the same game!

[ScrantonBulls]

I thought this may be interesting. The NBA has changed so much over the years. We all have our favorite eras. I think it would be cool to watch some tape of previous finals (don't have to watch a lot, 5-10 mins or more) and point out the differences, what you liked and didn't like.

I'll be editing this thread every few days/week or so with a new finals series.

Let's look at the 2004 finals first. This was an era where pace was grinded to a halt. Recent rule changes to defense occured (zone was legal) and scoring was really low. The league followed up with rule changes to encourage scoring. They obviously didn't like teams scoring 70-80 points on a given night and winning.

I'll edit this with my thoughts on the finals matchup later today.

Watch on YouTube