2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10

[Kobewade11]

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Bam and AD combo

Hits like crack cocaine surrounded by stars. I wouldnt object to the pairing but the ceiling is low without a #1 scorer. AD is a legitimate 2 though

[greg4012]

Kevin Durant doesn't fix our offense. He's a unique talent in league history but his forte is isolation. His best moments of team success came either with a team that happened to also have two league MVP's at the time that only managed to come about due to youth (those rosters were so loaded Serge Ibaka barely gets a mention when people look back), or a team that had already won a Finals and set the regular season win record without him. He had an achilles injury which is about the worst thing you can get, and while he did bounce back, he missed a full season and half of the next 3 seasons following it.

When he was finally healthy in Phoenix last season, his advanced impact metrics actually track similar to Herro's for Miami this season, very slightly better. And this season they were almost identical (around 3 in VORP, Tyler had higher ws/48, both created value on offense and were slightly negative defensively for their teams). This is not at all to compare Tyler to KD as a talent, purely to their impact on their squads.

And this is all assuming he is a picture of perfect health and can age like LeBron is. Which is a massive assumption. And one I'm almost willing to grant just because of his unique attributes (7 foot tall, game that doesn't rely on athleticism), but still even in that best case scenario, by the numbers you aren't getting the MVP level talent he was 5+ years ago, unless looking purely at boxscore statistics which are inflated from the past few years anyways (27 ppg in this era is like 22-24 10 years ago).

That's my argument. I don't think he moves the needle for a team that wasn't getting it done with Jimmy Butler. And I think in the postseason, at this stage of their careers, Jimmy and KD are comparable as players. If we were going to shell out the dough for an older player who uses a style that could age gracefully and has had injury problems in the past I'd have rather just done it for Jimmy than reverse course with KD while also having to trade who knows what to acquire him.

There we go baby. Doesn't that feel better?

It just feels like we're talking in circles, I haven't seen the argument on why KD makes us contenders, I've seen attempts that didn't convince me, and after the last 2 playoff series with this current iteration of the roster, it sure feels like we're even farther away than people thought.

There's one poster on this board consistently pushing for a KD, or Ja, or Trae etc as if that will cure all our woes, and it always feels like its an attempt to squeeze out one more run before his favorite player starts to get older, instead of accepting that the current iteration of the roster needs a reset. And the thing is, I don't even think Bam has to go in a reset. Sometimes it happens way faster than you can predict, which is exactly what happened with Jimmy in 2019. Or look at Wade coming quick enough that Zo was able to rejoin the team and finally get his ring.

But Jimmy was 29/30 at the time, and Wade was a high draft pick. KD is great, but he's 37, and he's damaged goods. Trae (imo at least) isn't a Jimmy Butler level talent, neither is Ja Morant. Well Ja might be but he's far more unstable and that's saying something.

I'd be down for adding a KD or Ja or Trae if Jimmy were still here and we were trying to milk a couple more years of contention. But as the main piece, I'd much rather wait to see who else comes available (Giannis?...Antman?...Luka?) or just try to draft the next Wade.

And that's the beauty of it, we don't all have to agree.

[SerialChiller]

I still can't believe Tyus Jones signed a vet min contract with the Suns last year. He's going to be available again this offseason, I wonder where he'll end up this time and what he'll get contract wise. He's shot the 3 at over 41% for 2 straight seasons now, this season on 5 attempts per game. And his assist to TO ratio was 5:1 this season in Phoenix and 7:1 the year before as a starter in Washington.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

And that's the beauty of it, we don't all have to agree.

I agree (to disagree) lol. I think the annoying thing is having certain posters attempting to (not at all) subtly accuse the whole rest of the board of hating/bias/whatever against his favorite player while he concocts dream teams around him. I rarely engage or respond to it and will probably go back to letting it slide, but everyone knows who's instigating.

I don't want to make it personal either, I like all the unique perspectives, but some things just get tired. But I will add that if anyone on the current roster deserves his own fanbase, its Bam, nobody else is as accomplished. So there's that.

[greg4012]

Bam playing some minutes at C has never been contested. This is a Spo team. Herro sometimes plays PG too. And sometimes Duncan plays SG and SF. Highsmith SF and PF. The conversation is about having Bam as our actual C and my plea is to not go down that road again.

And you're saying its not zero sum, but that is what every conversation that is even a tiny bit critical of Bam has been allowed to devolve into on this board by the mods, despite knowing the exact problem causing it. So I'm just preempting the "nonsense" that you are somehow not aware you are on the same side of.

Bam played more than 50% of his minutes at center this season and will continue to do so because he's multi-faceted and creates advantage for Miami in many scenarios doing so. Herro playing PG is more out of necessity bc Miami has no playmakers and Herro basically needs to be the smallest player on the court for functional basketball to occur.

If you noticed, I rarely engage the trolling.

Yes, I see more value in Bam as a player than half the fanbase that appears to despise him. No, I don't think he's the centerpiece for a contending team (newsflash: there are less than 10 of those in the world).

And what do you want the mods to do? Police a fan for posting on a message board spamming posts about outlandish trades for superstars or going over board celebrating a player he likes?

If that's what you want, might as well fold up the board because more posts than not are nonsense in some form or fashion.

Bam is played at C out of necessity too. We don't have anyone behind him or Ware. If you noticed during the play in and first 2 games of the playoffs, people were getting so mad that he and Ware weren't getting more minutes together. I had to kindly remind them that that meant if they sat at the same time, we'd have no bigs at all on the floor. So yes, a lot of times Bam played C. But if we had any actual bigs behind either of them, that wouldn't need to happen to the extent it did. Also, again, we do hide him on offense. That's something that still happened, despite Ware getting minutes next to Bam. We played guys like Jovic and Highsmith at 4 to space the floor where Bam could not.

And no, no one despises Bam. Being critical of him and/or combating lies to blame literally everyone else on the team about his performance on the court is not despising. He is the only one on the team that if you say anything about, people feel the need to come to his defense and remind you about what he does for us on defense, even if that is not the conversation. He is protected more than anyone on the team and has been for years. If you can't see that then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I don't want the mods to do anything but be fair. Some of this stuff is obvious, but they have a tough job and it's up to them how to decide to reel things in, not mine. I just want a feature to where I don't have to see people on my ignored lists' posts tbh.

You can call it necessity. But reality is that, more often than not, Bam playing center has been a top 5 center in the NBA. That's schematic opportunity. That doesn't mean that's all he does, and that doesn't mean Miami can't benefit from having more functional size on the court and allowing Bam to evolve his game.

I can tell you with certainty that Miami is not better off having your average backup center logging 18-20 mpg in rotation with Ware at the center position rather than having Bam play those minutes. I'll go further, Miami is absolutely not better off having your average starting center logging 18-20 mpg in rotation with Ware at the center position rather than having Bam play those minutes.

He was literally just playing center for the gold medal team USA. Both with AD on the court (where they split a lot of responsibility) and without. Multiple all-stars at center.

Now, none of that is to say that it's advantageous in a vacuum to have your biggest guy on the court be 6'9, but that doesn't mean that the 6'9 player on the court isn't effective at doing what he's doing. It just means having more functional size around him can provide more advantage if done right.

I'm one of the biggest advocates for Ware and his development and a plus fit in developing a frontcourt of Bam and Ware.

"Be fair"----I don't see any injustices occurring on this board

[Kobewade11]

I don't want the mods to do anything but be fair. Some of this stuff is obvious, but they have a tough job and it's up to them how to decide to reel things in, not mine. I just want a feature to where I don't have to see people on my ignored lists' posts tbh.

Honestly its hard to believe that in 2025 they aren't using this technology yet. It's on other boards and it drastically improves the forum reading experience.

[twix2500]

Heat Gets [
Anthony Davis
Bradley Beal
Caleb Martin
Suns 2025 1st
Suns 2027 1st

Mavericks Gets
Tyler Herro
Kel'el Ware
Andrew Wiggins
2025 1st
2027 1st
2029 1st
2030 1st

Suns Gets
Terry Rozier
Duncan Robinson
Kevin Love

[Heat3]

Hide Bams offense while he’s outscored the player you all are stanning for in 7 of their last 9 playoff games while Herro was cast as the first option who we would spam non stop screens for to get open and also assisted on more baskets than him in 7 of the 9 games as well.

As they would say, make it make sense.

Lol at outscored, in a game that was done in the second quarter. Did Bam take a shot while the game was relevant? I just knew you would try to sneak that in.

Herro got locked up in the home games, only scored 4pts in the final game, and still outscored Bam for the series

not really a time to brag about Bam's offense

[Shewasfly]

Kevin Durant doesn't fix our offense. He's a unique talent in league history but his forte is isolation. His best moments of team success came either with a team that happened to also have two league MVP's at the time that only managed to come about due to youth (those rosters were so loaded Serge Ibaka barely gets a mention when people look back), or a team that had already won a Finals and set the regular season win record without him. He had an achilles injury which is about the worst thing you can get, and while he did bounce back, he missed a full season and half of the next 3 seasons following it.

When he was finally healthy in Phoenix last season, his advanced impact metrics actually track similar to Herro's for Miami this season, very slightly better. And this season they were almost identical (around 3 in VORP, Tyler had higher ws/48, both created value on offense and were slightly negative defensively for their teams). This is not at all to compare Tyler to KD as a talent, purely to their impact on their squads.

And this is all assuming he is a picture of perfect health and can age like LeBron is. Which is a massive assumption. And one I'm almost willing to grant just because of his unique attributes (7 foot tall, game that doesn't rely on athleticism), but still even in that best case scenario, by the numbers you aren't getting the MVP level talent he was 5+ years ago, unless looking purely at boxscore statistics which are inflated from the past few years anyways (27 ppg in this era is like 22-24 10 years ago).

That's my argument. I don't think he moves the needle for a team that wasn't getting it done with Jimmy Butler. And I think in the postseason, at this stage of their careers, Jimmy and KD are comparable as players. If we were going to shell out the dough for an older player who uses a style that could age gracefully and has had injury problems in the past I'd have rather just done it for Jimmy than reverse course with KD while also having to trade who knows what to acquire him.

I think KD is far better than anyone on our roster, doesn't matter his age. The stats can say whatever, but he's better than Herro now and into eternity. Bam too. What the stats won't as easily show is how the other team's defense must change

The Cleveland Cavaliers could not do what they did to us defensively with KD on this roster. He is someone who can score at will, and do so over the top of the defense. He would also have been someone who, besides Herro, the defense would be forced to come out to and guard at the 3 point line. That alone changes the series entirely. Can't run around face guarding Tyler and playing a Box and 1 on him with KD on the floor.

I'm not even saying KD moves the needle to make us a championship team. But he is far better than anyone on our roster, and he's still better than Jimmy too. I say that as someone who, as yall know, was in favor of Jimmy staying if the situation between him and Riley hadn't become so toxic it was irreparable.

Maybe you can call me a KD hater. I don't actually think he's comparable to Tyler, but I do think Jimmy of the last few years is comparable to KD in the playoffs absolutely. I have always found guys like KD, and Dirk to throw another in the mix, as overrated to what they bring teams. That being the unguardable 7 footer with guard skills archetype. It's great when it's working and they add instant offense, but they often bog down the flow of team offense and have a negative impact on defense (KD was much better in his prime but that's an area where the achilles definitely affected him).

I saw KD teams fall apart numerous times when Steph wasn't there (numbers aside). I saw Dirk teams come up short constantly outside 2011, I'll never forget that Warriors meltdown in 2007. And I'm biased there because I know the numbers say Dirk/KD are better players than that, I just do not believe in that archetype for winning basketball, or at least not as the best player on your team.

Also attitude counts for something. Jimmy can be a selfish dick, but nobody will ever say he's not an ultimate competitor or winner. He's in the playoffs right now, helping to lead Golden State. KD could have gotten out of Phoenix if he wanted and gotten himself to a contender this deadline, but he didn't push that hard for it, and he's sitting at home. And to me, he's always come across as the ultimate frontrunner, so I don't see how that's at all a good mix with this current Heat squad.

I can somewhat agree on the intangibles part of the argument between KD and Jimmy/other stars that I think you're getting at. I disagree that he's a frontrunner, but KD is not what I would call a leader, despite being the obvious #1 guy on any team he's on and having top 10 ever talent. Its just never been his style, and that would have to come from someone else on his team.

We can agree to disagree on everything else regarding him though.

I personally think that with the stinker put up in the last 2 games, and the Rockets likely about to lose to GSW, our chances of landing KD are slim unless he truly demands it over other places. I think Riley would have to focus on upgrading the rest of the roster as soon as the off season starts, to make it an attractive pitch for him or anyone else.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

To be clear I don't view Bam at center as a negative, I think it is a key to his greatness/versatility as a player. Maybe not spend all his time there, but still. Bosh at center is what unlocked things for the big 3, having a skilled guy who gives up inches but still can play the spot is a winning formula in the modern NBA.

I really do think a lot of the Bam criticism is due to people having expectations that go beyond what he is as a player. If I had a complaint for how he plays and/or how we use him, it would be that we go to point-Bam too often. He is a nice passer but a slow decision maker, and it bogs down the offense. I also cringe sometimes when they let him bring the ball up on multiple possessions in a row, usually ends up leading to a turnover.

But overall he's a fantastic team player and arguably the only guy on the roster who can fit any type of rebuild we make, no matter the direction we go I can see Bam being a contributor if he's still here.

[greg4012]

To be clear I don't view Bam at center as a negative, I think it is a key to his greatness/versatility as a player. Maybe not spend all his time there, but still. Bosh at center is what unlocked things for the big 3, having a skilled guy who gives up inches but still can play the spot is a winning formula in the modern NBA.

I really do think a lot of the Bam criticism is due to people having expectations that go beyond what he is as a player. If I had a complaint for how he plays and/or how we use him, it would be that we go to point-Bam too often. He is a nice passer but a slow decision maker, and it bogs down the offense. I also cringe sometimes when they let him bring the ball up on multiple possessions in a row, usually ends up leading to a turnover.

But overall he's a fantastic team player and arguably the only guy on the roster who can fit any type of rebuild we make, no matter the direction we go I can see Bam being a contributor if he's still here.

Getting slotted to the right spot in the pecking order on offense would heal a lot of dysfunction across the board.

It's verifiable fact that Miami had the worst perimeter playmaking in the NBA this season.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Hide Bams offense while he’s outscored the player you all are stanning for in 7 of their last 9 playoff games while Herro was cast as the first option who we would spam non stop screens for to get open and also assisted on more baskets than him in 7 of the 9 games as well.

As they would say, make it make sense.

Lol at outscored, in a game that was done in the second quarter. Did Bam take a shot while the game was relevant? I just knew you would try to sneak that in.

Herro got locked up in the home games, only scored 4pts in the final game, and still outscored Bam for the series

not really a time to brag about Bam's offense

I’m not even bragging, the entire team was dog **** but when you don’t bring anything to the table but scoring and a little playmaking and you want $50M a year on an extension you better be doing worlds better offensively than a guy who “has no bag” “Joel Anthony if he wore 13” etc. Especially when your being defended by Sam Merrill and Max Strus.

[Flash4thewin]

We have to remember the front office goal is not to contend, but just to make the playoffs. And above all to not pay the tax. That’s how we should view this offseason, well unless they are held accountable and rightfully fired/resigned/retired whatever.

[twix2500]

Heat Gets [
Anthony Davis
Bradley Beal
Caleb Martin
Suns 2025 1st
Suns 2027 1st

Mavericks Gets
Tyler Herro
Kel'el Ware
Andrew Wiggins
2025 1st
2027 1st
2029 1st
2030 1st

Suns Gets
Terry Rozier
Duncan Robinson
Kevin Love

Maybe get someone like Clayton in the draft

PG: Clayton - Mitchell
SG: Beal - Larsson
SF: Jovic - Martin - Jaquez
PF: Davis - Highsmith - Johnson
Ce: Adebayo

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Let’s trade Bam too, I’m down for whatever will make my team better. The goal is always championships (I don’t want to win a championship just because we have Bam lol). You all love to speak on me but in reality you got me fuxked up. Sorry for defending one of the most successful and decorated players in Heat franchise history when people say clowns like Julius Randle are better or that he has no offense despite him bringing 18 points and 4 assists to the table the worst season of his career while being an all world defender who has been a major catalyst to several deep playoff runs. Honestly that’s on me.

I will say at least the things I say and the arguments I make I always back with a legitimate argument; a lot of you just spout off opinions and don’t have a leg to stand on when it gets called out b

[3ammy3uck3ts]

We have to remember the front office goal is not to contend, but just to make the playoffs. And above all to not pay the tax. That’s how we should view this offseason, well unless they are held accountable and rightfully fired/resigned/retired whatever.

Read on Twitter

[Slot Machine]

There's one poster on this board consistently pushing for a KD, or Ja, or Trae etc as if that will cure all our woes, and it always feels like its an attempt to squeeze out one more run before his favorite player starts to get older, instead of accepting that the current iteration of the roster needs a reset.

Yeah, I mean it’s obvious that what you said is all it really is. No objective person looks at a 37-win team that just suffered the worst playoff series loss of all time and thinks the answer is to double down even further and blow the remainder of our assets for a guy who will be 37 when next season starts.

You can’t really expect more from player fans though.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

There's one poster on this board consistently pushing for a KD, or Ja, or Trae etc as if that will cure all our woes, and it always feels like its an attempt to squeeze out one more run before his favorite player starts to get older, instead of accepting that the current iteration of the roster needs a reset.

Yeah, I mean it’s obvious that what you said is all it really is. No objective person looks at a 37-win team that just suffered the worst playoff series loss of all time and thinks the answer is to double down even further and blow the remainder of our assets for a guy who will be 37 when next season starts.

You can’t really expect more from player fans though.

I don't want to make it about player fans anymore, but specifically it's never a good idea to make moves around a player's agenda over a teams.

Reminder, Lowry happened because Jimmy wanted it. Rozier trade was also done to try to extend contending window with Jimmy.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

If you want your team to win you’re a player fan, got it. Keyboard warriors unite!!!

[Shewasfly]

Bam played more than 50% of his minutes at center this season and will continue to do so because he's multi-faceted and creates advantage for Miami in many scenarios doing so. Herro playing PG is more out of necessity bc Miami has no playmakers and Herro basically needs to be the smallest player on the court for functional basketball to occur.

If you noticed, I rarely engage the trolling.

Yes, I see more value in Bam as a player than half the fanbase that appears to despise him. No, I don't think he's the centerpiece for a contending team (newsflash: there are less than 10 of those in the world).

And what do you want the mods to do? Police a fan for posting on a message board spamming posts about outlandish trades for superstars or going over board celebrating a player he likes?

If that's what you want, might as well fold up the board because more posts than not are nonsense in some form or fashion.

Bam is played at C out of necessity too. We don't have anyone behind him or Ware. If you noticed during the play in and first 2 games of the playoffs, people were getting so mad that he and Ware weren't getting more minutes together. I had to kindly remind them that that meant if they sat at the same time, we'd have no bigs at all on the floor. So yes, a lot of times Bam played C. But if we had any actual bigs behind either of them, that wouldn't need to happen to the extent it did. Also, again, we do hide him on offense. That's something that still happened, despite Ware getting minutes next to Bam. We played guys like Jovic and Highsmith at 4 to space the floor where Bam could not.

And no, no one despises Bam. Being critical of him and/or combating lies to blame literally everyone else on the team about his performance on the court is not despising. He is the only one on the team that if you say anything about, people feel the need to come to his defense and remind you about what he does for us on defense, even if that is not the conversation. He is protected more than anyone on the team and has been for years. If you can't see that then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I don't want the mods to do anything but be fair. Some of this stuff is obvious, but they have a tough job and it's up to them how to decide to reel things in, not mine. I just want a feature to where I don't have to see people on my ignored lists' posts tbh.

You can call it necessity. But reality is that, more often than not, Bam playing center has been a top 5 center in the NBA. That's schematic opportunity. That doesn't mean that's all he does, and that doesn't mean Miami can't benefit from having more functional size on the court and allowing Bam to evolve his game.

I can tell you with certainty that Miami is not better off having your average backup center logging 18-20 mpg in rotation with Ware at the center position rather than having Bam play those minutes. I'll go further, Miami is absolutely not better off having your average starting center logging 18-20 mpg in rotation with Ware at the center position rather than having Bam play those minutes.

He was literally just playing center for the gold medal team USA. Both with AD on the court (where they split a lot of responsibility) and without. Multiple all-stars at center.

Now, none of that is to say that it's advantageous in a vacuum to have your biggest guy on the court be 6'9, but that doesn't mean that the 6'9 player on the court isn't effective at doing what he's doing. It just means having more functional size around him can provide more advantage if done right.

I'm one of the biggest advocates for Ware and his development and a plus fit in developing a frontcourt of Bam and Ware.

"Be fair"----I don't see any injustices occurring on this board

Whatever your personal opinion on Bam being a top 5 center, he was played there out of necessity. We legitimately have no depth there. So whether he's top 5 or bottom 15, his minutes were what they were out of necessity. Either way, I think if your argument is based on Bam winning in the Olympics with the best basketball players in the world around him while playing C, then we have a fundamental difference that doesn't really warrant the back and forth. Give me a real C that is logging 35-40 minutes a night and Bam at the 4 logging the same. Whatever sporadic minutes he plays at C after that means very little to me, and I'd even be in support depending on the matchups.

I don't see where I ever made the claim that there were any injustices happening. You asked what the mods should do, I said just be fair. You really like this word, injustice, huh?