Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22
Calvin Klein wrote:Giannis and Booker would be too good to be true.
bullsaficianado wrote:Calvin Klein wrote:Giannis and Booker would be too good to be true.
Yeah seems like a pie in the sky report. If the Rockets lose to Warriors and Bucks lose to Indiana and Giannis wants out than maybe a three team deal would be possible. All the depth and picks from that trade though would be going to the Bucks, Durant to Rockets, Giannis to Suns. I doubt we would be able to keep many picks if we are trading for Giannis.
Ghost of Kleine wrote:BobbieL wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Anything of note GOK?
My guess he will have some version of your Orlando trade with the Suns taking on KCP and Isaac and my guess, the Bulls trade taking on Vucevic, PWill and extra...
I'm not really a diehard subscriber, so I haven't really seen the trade frameworks yet man. But here is the youtube video breakdown of that article just released a few minutes ago:
Slim Charless wrote:bullsaficianado wrote:Calvin Klein wrote:Giannis and Booker would be too good to be true.
Yeah seems like a pie in the sky report. If the Rockets lose to Warriors and Bucks lose to Indiana and Giannis wants out than maybe a three team deal would be possible. All the depth and picks from that trade though would be going to the Bucks, Durant to Rockets, Giannis to Suns. I doubt we would be able to keep many picks if we are trading for Giannis.
The only way it happens if it's Booker. There's no way KD still has that value and he wouldn't wanna play in MIL anyways.
If that a true rumor, that's a possibility for Ishbia maybe. He gets star power in Giannis and with KD, that's a good pairing. Still have Beal to play SG.
Don't see how or why this happens unless it's Booker to Milwaukee.
TeamTragic wrote:Giannis is not going to leave the Bucks for the Nets
TeamTragic wrote:Giannis is not going to leave the Bucks for the Nets
Slim Charless wrote:TeamTragic wrote:Giannis is not going to leave the Bucks for the Nets
Yes, he is.
Fo-Real wrote:No chance Giannis happens.
BobbieL wrote:Fo-Real wrote:No chance Giannis happens.
Not to the Suns -- no way
Gerald's last trade on the PHNX_SUNS you tube was
SA: Giannis
Milwaukee: Beal, Sochon, Vessell and Castle plus 4 FRPs, three from the Spurs, one from the Suns
Suns gets: Barnes and Johnson
So again - if giving up a FRP - - I don't hate it as its expirings
One thing Gerald B said - he thinks the Suns are willing to take a step back to build around Booker so I hope Gerald is right
TeamTragic wrote:BobbieL wrote:Fo-Real wrote:No chance Giannis happens.
Not to the Suns -- no way
Gerald's last trade on the PHNX_SUNS you tube was
SA: Giannis
Milwaukee: Beal, Sochon, Vessell and Castle plus 4 FRPs, three from the Spurs, one from the Suns
Suns gets: Barnes and Johnson
So again - if giving up a FRP - - I don't hate it as its expirings
One thing Gerald B said - he thinks the Suns are willing to take a step back to build around Booker so I hope Gerald is right
I see so you think Giannis doesn't have a say in his potential destination?
There is definitely a path for him to join the Suns.
Ghost of Kleine wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:
It would have to be significantly more than that honestly man. Especially given the necessity of salary matching, and KDs' consensus market value.
The most recent reports given out by the NBA experts put KDs' value at a package of Johnson/ Barnes/ filler/ 3 1sts.
I've promoted a package of Vassell/ Barnes/ Sochan/ 2 1sts. And honestly, I wouldn't gift KD to the Spurs for anything less than one of those two packages. Personally, I wouldn't want Johnson, because hes pretty redundant to O'neale as an undersized frontcourt scoring forward. His defense is lousy, and his athleticism is meh. But the 3rd 1st makes up for it at least somewhat!
And his $17 million contract would expire (come off the books) around the same time as Beal's in 27. Adding $17 million to Beal's $57 million, giving us upwards of $74 million for 27 free agency.
The biggest aspect of the trade for me would be the specifics around the picks involved. I personally wouldn't accept any garbage picks in the deal for KD. Something like:
1- Atlanta 25' 1st ( 14th pick).
2- Atlanta 27' 1st.
3- 2030 1st ( Dal or Minnesota swap rights)
** Dallas 30' 1st is unprotected.
** Minnesota 30' 1st is only top 1 protected.
Also kind of interesting is that Mikal Bridges is an unrestricted free agent in 26, and Cam Johnson is an unrestricted free agent in 27.
So if our front office were at all clever, they could have Booker talk to both Bridges and Johnson about a reunion here in Phoenix. This could be rather easily accomplished by doing this:
1- NYK/ PHOENIX-
KD for Bridges/ Mitchell/ Hart (**flipped to another team for assets)/ WAS 26' 1st (protected 1-10)/ NYK 30' 1st/ 28' 2nd (via IND or PHX).
2- Beal comes off the Books in 27.
We'd have already added Mikal back in a trade, now with over 57 million in cap space, we can offer Cam Johnson a generous free agency contract for $30 million ( descending over 4). Then use the remaining 27 million + on depth pieces too. And when Mitchell's 14 million comes off the books, we can target center and point guard options??
I don't think you're getting two of their young guys (Vassel/Sochan) and 2 FRPs. You could start negotiations with that but I think you're walking away with probably one of the two young guys and 2 FRPs as a best case scenario. 2 young guys and 2 FRPs doesn't feel realistic to me.The most recent reports given out by the NBA experts put KDs' value at a package of Johnson/ Barnes/ filler/ 3 1sts.
And unless there was a different report you're referencing, the report I saw on this did not put KD's value as the above. It was posited that because Ishbia mentioned we didn't want to let KD go for less than what we gave up for him, we would likely demand something similar from other teams and that frameworks of the package from the Spurs would have to look like the above. But what it does not say is this is KD's value and they also said it was unlikely.According to a new report from ClutchPoints, the Suns won't be willing to accept anything less than they sent out for Durant two years ago; the four-team deal saw Phoenix part with Mikal Bridges, Cameron Johnson, Jae Crowder, four first-round picks, and a first-round pick swap.
If that holds, the Spurs would likely have to include a package of Devin Vassell, Jeremy Sochan, and potentially Keldon Johnson along with a slew of first-round picks — and given the importance placed on youth development, that's unlikely.
That's cool man! Everyone is entitled to their perspectives. But it's important to remember that having multiple suitors will of course exacerbate value returns in a bidding scenario.
Now of course people can argue value exchange outcome for trades, but you should always start high end the both teams negotiate back and forth trying to leverage various factors to swing trades in their favor.
But again, having multiple bidders swings things in favor at least reasonably if not by alot. Also depending upon the nature of those teams interest and attached desperation, those factors can also be leveraged ( if our front office can actually negotiate with even a modicum of confidence and strength).
Lastly, the underlying fact that KD still wants to be here and admittedly likes playing with Book dramatically reduces any pressure on us to HAVE TO TRADE HIM. So even though trading KD may illicit the most favorable package outcome for our long term interests, we're still not in a desperate " must trade him or lose him for nothing scenario.
All of these factors empower us to demand higher value returns from a KD trade or comfortably not choose to give him away for pennies on the dollar!
And this is what I was referencing:
https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/blockbuster-nba-trade-idea-sends-kevin-durant-to-spurs-01jr6dgsrp6cBleacher Report's Andy Bailey crafted a blockbuster three-team mock trade between the Spurs, Suns, and Brooklyn Nets that would pair Durant with Wembanyama.
Spurs Receive:
Kevin Durant and a 2030 second-round pick from Brooklyn.
Suns Receive:
Nicolas Claxton, Keldon Johnson, a 2025 first-round pick from San Antonio (via Atlanta), a 2029 first-round pick from San Antonio and a 2031 first-round pick from San Antonio.
Nets Receive:
Devin Vassell, a 2025 second-round pick from Phoenix (via Denver) and a 2026 first-round pick swap from San Antonio.
Then there's also this:The Trade Package
Durant being convinced of the Spurs’ worthiness is their biggest obstacle. Due to their cache of first-round picks, San Antonio’s trade package would be particularly enticing. Even if Phoenix wants to compete for a championship every year, the picks they receive from San Antonio could be the master key for future transactions.
In addition, the Spurs could offer up starting-caliber wings in Devin Vassell and Keldon Johnson. Stephon Castle and Jeremy Sochan, multi-skilled young players with a defensive edge, would appeal to the Suns. Lastly, they have an established and battle-tested veteran in Harrison Barnes.
If the Spurs were to offer Castle, Barnes, Johnson and 2-3 first-rounders, they could probably get a deal done. Offering Vassell rather than Johnson would make it that much harder to pass up.
https://sports.yahoo.com/article/san-antonio-spurs-possible-trade-150940379.htmlThe league insider then mentioned Vassell and Barnes as being the Spurs' best trade chips. If the Spurs could add Durant for the low price of Barnes, Vassell, and perhaps Blake Wesley, as well as three draft picks, it's hard to argue against that.
So in examining all of these various articles, proposals, etc. It seems that KDs' consensus value (among the NBA experts/ pundits) falls within the range of 2 solid players and 3 1sts. At least that's how I'm interpreting it for my part.
BobbieL wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:I don't think you're getting two of their young guys (Vassel/Sochan) and 2 FRPs. You could start negotiations with that but I think you're walking away with probably one of the two young guys and 2 FRPs as a best case scenario. 2 young guys and 2 FRPs doesn't feel realistic to me.
And unless there was a different report you're referencing, the report I saw on this did not put KD's value as the above. It was posited that because Ishbia mentioned we didn't want to let KD go for less than what we gave up for him, we would likely demand something similar from other teams and that frameworks of the package from the Spurs would have to look like the above. But what it does not say is this is KD's value and they also said it was unlikely.
That's cool man! Everyone is entitled to their perspectives. But it's important to remember that having multiple suitors will of course exacerbate value returns in a bidding scenario.
Now of course people can argue value exchange outcome for trades, but you should always start high end the both teams negotiate back and forth trying to leverage various factors to swing trades in their favor.
But again, having multiple bidders swings things in favor at least reasonably if not by alot. Also depending upon the nature of those teams interest and attached desperation, those factors can also be leveraged ( if our front office can actually negotiate with even a modicum of confidence and strength).
Lastly, the underlying fact that KD still wants to be here and admittedly likes playing with Book dramatically reduces any pressure on us to HAVE TO TRADE HIM. So even though trading KD may illicit the most favorable package outcome for our long term interests, we're still not in a desperate " must trade him or lose him for nothing scenario.
All of these factors empower us to demand higher value returns from a KD trade or comfortably not choose to give him away for pennies on the dollar!
And this is what I was referencing:
https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/blockbuster-nba-trade-idea-sends-kevin-durant-to-spurs-01jr6dgsrp6cBleacher Report's Andy Bailey crafted a blockbuster three-team mock trade between the Spurs, Suns, and Brooklyn Nets that would pair Durant with Wembanyama.
Spurs Receive:
Kevin Durant and a 2030 second-round pick from Brooklyn.
Suns Receive:
Nicolas Claxton, Keldon Johnson, a 2025 first-round pick from San Antonio (via Atlanta), a 2029 first-round pick from San Antonio and a 2031 first-round pick from San Antonio.
Nets Receive:
Devin Vassell, a 2025 second-round pick from Phoenix (via Denver) and a 2026 first-round pick swap from San Antonio.
Then there's also this:The Trade Package
Durant being convinced of the Spurs’ worthiness is their biggest obstacle. Due to their cache of first-round picks, San Antonio’s trade package would be particularly enticing. Even if Phoenix wants to compete for a championship every year, the picks they receive from San Antonio could be the master key for future transactions.
In addition, the Spurs could offer up starting-caliber wings in Devin Vassell and Keldon Johnson. Stephon Castle and Jeremy Sochan, multi-skilled young players with a defensive edge, would appeal to the Suns. Lastly, they have an established and battle-tested veteran in Harrison Barnes.
If the Spurs were to offer Castle, Barnes, Johnson and 2-3 first-rounders, they could probably get a deal done. Offering Vassell rather than Johnson would make it that much harder to pass up.
https://sports.yahoo.com/article/san-antonio-spurs-possible-trade-150940379.htmlThe league insider then mentioned Vassell and Barnes as being the Spurs' best trade chips. If the Spurs could add Durant for the low price of Barnes, Vassell, and perhaps Blake Wesley, as well as three draft picks, it's hard to argue against that.
So in examining all of these various articles, proposals, etc. It seems that KDs' consensus value (among the NBA experts/ pundits) falls within the range of 2 solid players and 3 1sts. At least that's how I'm interpreting it for my part.
I know the PHNX-SUNS podcasters said that the Suns don't want their picks back from Houston as they think they won't be valuable but thats just stupid talk. Houston has both the Suns picks and good young talent. Its the best match
I don't hate that deal with the Spurs - but those picks aren't going to be worth a damn if they are hte Spurs
I just hear stuff from those podcasters and just not sure they understand the reality of the Suns. I mean, floating the idea that Beal will give up $30m in a buyout to leave. Or Erik possibly attaching a pick from the Durant trade to move Beal. And even if you move Beal, what are you taking back. Buying him to stretch him only causes long term pain
The move with Beal is taking the medicine and letting Beal be an expiring in 2027
Slim Charless wrote:bullsaficianado wrote:Calvin Klein wrote:Giannis and Booker would be too good to be true.
Yeah seems like a pie in the sky report. If the Rockets lose to Warriors and Bucks lose to Indiana and Giannis wants out than maybe a three team deal would be possible. All the depth and picks from that trade though would be going to the Bucks, Durant to Rockets, Giannis to Suns. I doubt we would be able to keep many picks if we are trading for Giannis.
The only way it happens if it's Booker. There's no way KD still has that value and he wouldn't wanna play in MIL anyways.
If that a true rumor, that's a possibility for Ishbia maybe. He gets star power in Giannis and with KD, that's a good pairing. Still have Beal to play SG.
Don't see how or why this happens unless it's Booker to Milwaukee.
TeamTragic wrote:Bucks out. Giannis?
