PG - this is the opposite of fun

[Fury]

Blaming Thibs for everything is getting so boring

Like the last 10 posts are people putting blame on the players. You're just looking for this.

[Jeff Van Gully]

defense from Game 5:



defense from the series updated:



clearly the Pistons are just trying to isolate brunson onto the ball.

as they should. that's what i would do.

their defense as a whole does a great job of trapping the ball and closing off most if not all passing lanes. they deserve a lot of credit for the execution on that end. because even when we want to move the ball we can't sometimes.

[GONYK]

i appreciate this opportunity for good nuanced conversation. but i unfortunately merely expect it to just be coach bashing, like this is what he tells them to do (when he speaks out against it all the time).

regardless, coach is responsible for how it goes. but, no. he's not being lazy or missing open shots and free throws. so it's unfair to look at moments like these and maintain a "coach bad, players good" extreme agenda. it's always a shared thing. and both can be better. why do they start halves flat? why is mikal out here talking about layup lines for cohesion. that's unsettling.

and again, detroit deserves credit for not making it easy to execute the things. they not gon LET you. so some of this comes down to heart and... marble.

This is a player issue. This is a designed set. People get mad at Thibs and thinks he doesn't run plays. This is a play and the players just moved through it at half speed like it was a pregame walkthrough.

that part. sometimes detroit's pressure takes us out of what we want to execute. this is not one of those times. detroit appears to almost be assessing our approach here and you put it perfectly. half-speed bull.

when i see this, i am asking thibs "why?" not assuming it's what they worked on. why is whatever you worked on looking like this at this time? and he deserves to be held accountable for whatever that is.

What is he supposed to do at this point though? Bench the whole starting 5? We are a disappointing team for a lot of reasons but players own their effort IMO, especially the starters in a playoff game at home.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Blaming Thibs for everything is getting so boring

Like the last 10 posts are people putting blame on the players. You're just looking for this.

and neither are ever fair in absolute.

[god shammgod]

Blaming Thibs for everything is getting so boring

Sometimes the truth is boring.

So none of the players are culpable at all ? It’s all just coaching. Cmon guys lol

[Jeff Van Gully]

This is a player issue. This is a designed set. People get mad at Thibs and thinks he doesn't run plays. This is a play and the players just moved through it at half speed like it was a pregame walkthrough.

that part. sometimes detroit's pressure takes us out of what we want to execute. this is not one of those times. detroit appears to almost be assessing our approach here and you put it perfectly. half-speed bull.

when i see this, i am asking thibs "why?" not assuming it's what they worked on. why is whatever you worked on looking like this at this time? and he deserves to be held accountable for whatever that is.

What is he supposed to do at this point though? Bench the whole starting 5? We are a disappointing team for a lot of reasons but players own their effort IMO, especially the starters.

this is the part we don't know about but stake our argument claims (usually in harmful absolutes) on a message board.

i mean... this is what i wish i could understand behind closed doors. but we're just left the entertainment product to evaluate when we see it.

[TheGreenArrow]

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[nedleeds]

Mikal has a 25 mil salary slot. We need to turn that into two rotation players.

This top heavy approach isn't sustainable. The Villanova stuff felt good but this is about winning a championship.

Leon needs to focus on putting the best team around JB, OG, and KAT. F*ck the picks. Don't be afraid to pivot.

Leon needs to focus on a new job. Why are you putting the franchise in the hands of a player agent CAA clown who signed Fournier to 4 years, Kemba to 2, traded 5 **** picks for homeless Kentavious Caldwell Pope, and continues to retain his son's CAA client clown coach?

This guy is a moron. Same guy who extended R_. Same guy who gave away rotation players as dumps like Grimes.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Blaming Thibs for everything is getting so boring

Sometimes the truth is boring.

So none of the players are culpable at all ? It’s all just coaching. Cmon guys lol

it makes it really hard to really chop it up with fams on here. as a thibs fan, i'm not looking for ways to troll thibs haters. i also don't generally engage the other side of it.

if i'm gonna try to have a convo here, it's going to look a lot more like what i just experienced with MDB.

but i try to focus on the parts i can control. and engage in some of the humor when i can.

[HopelessKnick]

Blaming Thibs for everything is getting so boring

Not just Thibs. Leon has done a horrific job last offseason. The Mikal Bridges trade looks like a historic mistake at this point. Watching his soft ass avoid any type of contact is highly irritating. Like---without any exaggeration---Bridges has not drawn real contact going to the basket more than 10 times this entire season. Whenever he gets a semi open lane to the basket and you'd expect him to go up strong and finish it or draw contact and get to the line he'll pass it out or take a fade away like a soft ass. It is terrible beyond belief really. The dude is not even worth 2 unprotected FRP let alone 5. Imagine the Cavs got the better player for 1/5 of the cost. Leon gets a straight F for last offseason.

But Thibs has been straight horrific beyond words. People that don't know ball won't be able to see it but the rest sees it.

The team last offseason was strategically in a top 3-4 situation league wide....given it's talent, picks etc. We are now probably fringe top 10, maybe fringe top 12 strategically.

[god shammgod]

Nedleeds is my favorite lol

[Jeff Van Gully]

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i often genuinely wonder what people think johnnie does/did to assume he would be a better HC. like, what insight did we get and what do we know about his coaching other than him being young and not thibs?

real question.

[GONYK]

that part. sometimes detroit's pressure takes us out of what we want to execute. this is not one of those times. detroit appears to almost be assessing our approach here and you put it perfectly. half-speed bull.

when i see this, i am asking thibs "why?" not assuming it's what they worked on. why is whatever you worked on looking like this at this time? and he deserves to be held accountable for whatever that is.

What is he supposed to do at this point though? Bench the whole starting 5? We are a disappointing team for a lot of reasons but players own their effort IMO, especially the starters.

this is the part we don't know about but stake our argument claims (usually in harmful absolutes) on a message board.

i mean... this is what i wish i could understand behind closed doors. but we're just left the entertainment product to evaluate when we see it.

Yup, only they know the full extent of what is going on and only they can fix it.

Here are things that most aren't taking into account:

1. Jalen is clearly compromised and came into the game that way
2. KAT's knee might not be fully recovered
3. Mitch was clearly ill before last night
4. General exhaustion from OG, Hart, Mikal, etc...

Now these aren't excuses because I'm sure DET is dealing with their own stuff on the other side but these guys aren't 2k avatars whose health bar refills after every game.

At the same time, issues of focus are popping up. DET isn't better. They are barely executing their own offense. They are a hell of a lot more focused though.

[mpharris36]

what I can't reconcile is everyone is saying this isn't as tough as a team and that is why we aren't separating ourselves from last years team.

Our defense isn't the issue this series...outside of Brunson everyone is defending either on par with the skill set or better (outside of maybe Deuce who looks like a shell of himself on both ends).

We didn't even lose the rebound battle. This has nothing to do with "toughness"

It's the offense that is losing us these games and execution. We are 11th in the NBA in OFF Net Rating in the playoffs.

We have more offensive talent this year than last and we are struggling. And our defense is far better this year than last playoffs.

I know its year one with a lot of new bodies but the fact we didn't work out a lot of the same issues of offense/execution from early in the year is troublesome. We got off to that amazing offensive start when teams would just play there center on KAT....we were nearly breaking records for how good our offense was playing. And now that teams have adjusted we haveven't made a single adjustment to that when teams have been playing us this way since like December. Zero excuse for this ****.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Nedleeds is my favorite lol

hardest working in the game. deserves all the end of season accolades.

[nedleeds]

Blaming Thibs for everything is getting so boring

Sometimes the truth is boring.

So none of the players are culpable at all ? It’s all just coaching. Cmon guys lol

We over rate our players historically, and we also love just ignoring their defense and overall effort.

KAT, Brunson and OG when healthy are above average starters. But not number 1 player on title team types. They will cost us 80% of our cap. There is no easy way out. There's no short cut home.

[TheDavinciCHODE]

I will say a few things about this series, so far:

1. Kudos to Detroit for playing very tough defense and staying in all of these games

2. We clearly are not a deep enough team, and our starters are getting gassed. We need more reliable bench rotation guy.

3. We clearly on not good enough on defense with KAT at center and the long-term viability of this team will require a mobile 5 that can protect the rim. there's no way we will be able to compete with any of the elite teams in the league if we don't have rim protection.

4. This team is not reaching its offensive potential and that's on the coach as much as the players. The offense is slow and every bucket just feels like we worked hard for it. There are moments where 3 guys are in within 3 feet from each other on the perimeter. We devolve into brunson isos, KAT isos, or even OG or Mikal isos too often. This team should be a top 5 or 6 offense bare minimum imo with brunson, KAT, Bridges, and OG. That's 4 guys who can get 20 in a game easily on the court at the same time. at worst, it's a 27ppg, 25ppg, 19ppg, and 17ppg group that can all shoot.

Unless a miracle happens, I suspect Thibs will be gone next year. I really would like to see what a good offensive mind can do with this team.

And I hate to break it to everyone, but Detroit got a TON of wide open looks that they just bricked in the last few games. Beasly was 1-10 with like 5 wide open threes with nobody contesting him.

Teams like Boston or cleveland are going to CLOWN us if we give them open 3s like that. and you know Thibs. "protect the rim and give up the 3s".

Lots of issues here.

1. Not thibs fault. Kudos to detroit.

2. Not Thibs fault. We don't have the depth.

3. Not Thibs fault imo. A Kat-at-center defense is never going to be good.We were great defensively last year with a rim protector. Thibs can't work miracles.

4. Thib's fault.

[HopelessKnick]

Oh and KAT was just a disaster...the dude seems unable to box out and get a defensive rebound against Duren for whatever reason. You'd think he has the strength to do it but for whatever reason we need KAT + Hart and OG to keep Duren off the boards.

And those drives from the 3 point line are horrible---even though he is talented enough to sometimes make tough shots , they are usually horrible shots. Everytime he posted close to the paint he either got a gimme (that he missed unfortunately) or finished or got to the line. The fact that this team only sporadically goes to that---likely one of the most lopsided plays---is an indictment on the coach.

I told you guys before , I told you so: No flow, no ball movement, no creativity. Re-watch the game: 90% of our offense is iso one on one stuff. Barrett and Randle are gone and are interestingly playing on teams now where a bunch of their baskets comes through non-iso play. We on the other hand have now Brunson, KAT, OG and at times Bridges all just going one on one. But yeah, it's on the players...

[nedleeds]

[GONYK]

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i often genuinely wonder what people think johnnie does/did to assume he would be a better HC. like, what insight did we get and what do we know about his coaching other than him being young and not thibs?

real question.

Same for me. He's never been the architect of anything. He's just been around.

Now the fact that success has followed him is noteworthy, but that doesn't necessarily mean you are ready for the big chair.