2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10

[MiamiSun]

All I gotta say is this summer gonna be a roller coaster with all the trade rumors and ideas. I wouldn't be surprised if we land KD and 1 more distressed asset (Like Zion).

[3ammy3uck3ts]

As for the draft stuff, haven’t we kind of done that already in a way? We added Bam, Herro, and now Ware. Bam would go top 3 in a redraft, Herro top 5, and Ware top 5. 2 of them have become all stars, one of them is a top defender in the league every season, and we’ve been one of the most successful teams in the league in the postseason since drafting Herro and starting Bam. Thunder traded for their star, we traded for ours in Jimmy, we need to do it again and we’re right back in it.

[Heat3]

I want to know what the Heat would put around KD? Not convinced that Heat could muster anything better than a 2nd round exit with him. At his age, I could do with out him. I’d rather tank tbh.

Heat need to acquire cheap young talent. Thats through the draft. Spo needs to actually play them too instead of the BS he does. I fear Ware would get the Jaime treatment next season.

[Vertical Limit]

I want to know what the Heat would put around KD? Not convinced that Heat could muster anything better than a 2nd round exit with him. At his age, I could do with out him. I’d rather tank tbh.

Heat need to acquire cheap young talent. Thats through the draft. Spo needs to actually play them too instead of the BS he does. I fear Ware would get the Jaime treatment next season.

All of Jovic, Ware, and JJJ are not above playing the summer league this offseason. Thats if theyre still on the team by then.

Hell, Davion too. They need it especially if theyre all still on the roster next offseason.

[VaDe255]

As for the draft stuff, haven’t we kind of done that already in a way? We added Bam, Herro, and now Ware. Bam would go top 3 in a redraft, Herro top 5, and Ware top 5. 2 of them have become all stars, one of them is a top defender in the league every season, and we’ve been one of the most successful teams in the league in the postseason since drafting Herro and starting Bam. Thunder traded for their star, we traded for ours in Jimmy, we need to do it again and we’re right back in it.

This is why the Heat didn’t even have to win a lottery.
If you draft Bam, Herro, and Ware in three straight years and you’re in a rebuilding phase, that’s an amazing foundation.
Three cost controlled young players, ascending together, all on rookie deals or early extensions. That’s exactly how you build a sustainable core with cap flexibility and time to develop.

But that’s not the situation the Heat are in.
Bam is already on a max contract, Herro’s next deal is about to be another huge commitment, and Ware is four years younger than both. Their timelines don’t align, the cap flexibility is not there, and neither are the assets to put pieces around them.

[Vertical Limit]

I think Davion’s price was up after the Hawks game… and it took a small dive after the sweep by the cavs. We may be able to bring him back for a really fair and low price

[greg4012]

Boston
- #3 Tatum
- #3 Brown

Traded for White, KP, Jrue, drafted Pritchard late
Drafted well to have their foundation players, and kept putting players around them until they found a great group.

OKC
- #11 SGA (in a trade for PG)
- #2 Chat
- #12 JDub

Built through trades and the draft; trusted a long-term rebuild and have tons of picks and flexibility.

Houston
- #16 Sengun (came back in a trade)
- #4 Amen Thompson
- #2 Jalen Green

Bottomed out, collected picks, and developed talent instead of chasing mid-tier success.

There are more examples, but these 3 didn't even win the draft lottery, and it only took them a few years to execute the rebuild. This doesn't even have to take long, 1-2 years could be enough depending on how many picks and young players you would get for Bam/Herro.

This really isn't anything new, it's how you can build a sustainable foundation with assets and cap flexibility.

Boston: The trades don't matter without Tatum and Brown, I clearly named them as one of the outliers in my previous post.
OKC: Didn't draft SGA, but they were fortunate that PG forced his way to LA.
Houston: Currently down 3-1 as the #2 seed and their fans want Jalen Green gone. What championships do they have to show for bottoming out and collecting picks? I thought that's what this was supposed to be about..."winning championships in a sustainable way"?

So now that you got those 3 teams out of the way, you ready to go through an exercise of the teams that also followed the bottom out model? You know, the ones that aren't listed?

Boston isn’t an outlier, they made a conscious decision to rebuild when it was time. They traded Pierce and Garnett for picks, cleared cap space, and built a foundation through the draft. Tatum and Brown didn’t just fall in their lap, they were the result of smart planning, scouting and patience.

OKC is the same story. Yes, PG asked out, but they didn’t cling to false hope or chase a 6 seeds, they pivoted fast. They moved Westbrook shortly after, then Chris Paul. That created space for Shai to develop, gave them flexibility, and allowed them to play young guys in real minutes, something teams like the Heat would never do mid-cycle (they freaking tried to compete with Wiggins/Kyle, thank god they accidently picked up Davion, who is a great piece). They didn’t just luck into where they are now, it was a concious decision in a high pressure situation when they were forced to react.

Houston? Still in progress. They have a strong young core, flexibility, and a real defensive identity forming under Ime Udoka. They’re ahead of schedule compared to where most tanking teams are after three years and in the long run, they created the conditions for sustainable success: reps for young players, coaching continuity, and cap space. Amen is going to be great and they even have the #9 pick in this draft and could trade for a guy like Giannis who could be available.

The teams that do it well aren’t lucky, they’re deliberate, follow a plan and develop a winning culture in a stable environment. The teams that refuse to bottom out or chase fake contention stay stuck in the middle.

When you look at the last 20 years, most teams that win have a top guy who is a home grown talent and sometimes there is a trade for a final piece around that core, which pushes the team over the top. It's the exception that a championship team is built trading for a top guy or FA signing (especially now), it rarely happens.

Regarding Boston--they were the beneficiaries of one of the most lopsided trades in NBA history courtesy of pure incompetence on the part of Billy King.

It's not like they cut bait with their stars early in an anticipatory fashion. Ray Allen chose to leave Boston to go to Miami. Then Boston was a shell of itself, going 500 on the season, and flopped in round 1 of the 2014 playoffs vs the knicks. Paul Pierce was traded going into his age 36 season where he had just put up 18 ppg and had just shot 37% FG in the playoffs and Kevin Garnett was a 37 years old shell of himself averaging 14.8 ppg and career worst defensive impact across the board.

Billy King traded 3FRPs and a FRP swap (no protections and each conveyed in the next 3 seasons). As anyone could have predicted when trading for a washed 36 year old Pierce and 37 year old Garnett, those picks turned into 2 top 3 picks--Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum.

That's effectively the equivalent of Miami keeping & extending Jimmy through his 2028 season, then trading him after the next season to a team for 2 unprotected FRPs that would convey during Jimmy's age 37 and 38 seasons. And, of course, Boston massively benefiting from lotto luck on top of it.

[greg4012]

Double post deleted.

Also---F**K boston

[contract]

I want to know what the Heat would put around KD? Not convinced that Heat could muster anything better than a 2nd round exit with him. At his age, I could do with out him. I’d rather tank tbh.

Heat need to acquire cheap young talent. Thats through the draft. Spo needs to actually play them too instead of the BS he does. I fear Ware would get the Jaime treatment next season.

Players need to earn their minutes. If Ware can't earn more minutes next season with the riff-raff we have on this roster then Spo would be right to bury him on the bench.

[greg4012]

I want to know what the Heat would put around KD? Not convinced that Heat could muster anything better than a 2nd round exit with him. At his age, I could do with out him. I’d rather tank tbh.

Heat need to acquire cheap young talent. Thats through the draft. Spo needs to actually play them too instead of the BS he does. I fear Ware would get the Jaime treatment next season.

The pick owed to Charlotte really makes a tank less appealing tho

[Daffy]

Just a reminder why you don’t empty the cupboard for players like Dame….

While I feel for Dame, although I really do not because he is about to make nearly $60 million to recover at home… I did want to get in the “I told you so” (and I speak for myself and all the others in here who said Dame would not play up to his contract).

Let this be a reminder this summer as we navigate conversations surrounding players like Durant and what we are willing to give. Also, look at how bad the outlook for the Bucks and Suns currently is… which are teams who emptied their cupboards for players like Dame and Durant.

You waited 2 years after Dame was still balling out and got a fluke achilles injury to post this? You look at the structure of that Phoenix team and still posted this pertaining to KD? Yeah I can never take your opinion seriously anymore.

I waited to the precise time I said this would get ugly…. It was always year 3 and 4 that were a huge red flag, when his contract would spike, his production would likely decline (as supported by historical data of similar players), and injury concerns would rise.

Patience is a virtue. I made a statement 2 years ago that he would not be worth his year 3 and 4 contract. Guess what… we just ended year 2 and as stated two years ago, we already know for a FACT that year 3 and 4 are a problem. We can say with certainty, before the 3rd season even starts that the contract and this situation just got ugly for the Bucks as predicted.

The fact that you can’t take my opinion serious despite it being based on logic and now supported by evidence is exactly why talking ball with you is a lost cause. Even when the evidence is in your face, you deflate and distract by accusing and belittling.

As for the PHX comment… I looked at their situation and logically yes, made this post. How is that not evidence of why emptying the cupboard for a player like KD or Dame is not a great idea. It literally did not work out for the two teams who emptied the cupboard for those two exact players! Baffling to me how that does not qualify as supporting evidence.

What are you talking about? Both players were both playing at high levels. Luka, SGA, Tatum, Ant could tear his achilles any given moment. Dame was playing at a high level prior to the tear. KD is still playing at a high level. Those teams roster construction doesn't equal what our construction would have been.

[Flash4thewin]

I think Davion’s price was up after the Hawks game… and it took a small dive after the sweep by the cavs. We may be able to bring him back for a really fair and low price

He was basically our best player in the Cavs series lol. His salary ceiling is the non tax payers MLE

[contract]

I can't believe that the season just ended, we were the 10th seed and got absolutely butchered in the first round of the playoffs, and fans are talking about the foundational players on our team.

We ain't got any. We have role players. Some better than others. But there is no one to build around here. Thinking we do is how we ended up here.

[VaDe255]

Regarding Boston--they were the beneficiaries of one of the most lopsided trades in NBA history courtesy of pure incompetence on the part of Billy King.

It's not like they cut bait with their stars early in an anticipatory fashion. Ray Allen chose to leave Boston to go to Miami. Then Boston was a shell of itself, going 500 on the season, and flopped in round 1 of the 2014 playoffs vs the knicks. Paul Pierce was traded going into his age 36 season where he had just put up 18 ppg and had just shot 37% FG in the playoffs and Kevin Garnett was a 37 years old shell of himself averaging 14.8 ppg and career worst defensive impact across the board.

Billy King traded 3FRPs and a FRP swap (no protections and each conveyed in the next 3 seasons). As anyone could have predicted when trading for a washed 36 year old Pierce and 37 year old Garnett, those picks turned into 2 top 3 picks--Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum.

That's effectively the equivalent of Miami keeping & extending Jimmy through his 2028 season, then trading him after the next season to a team for 2 unprotected FRPs that would convey during Jimmy's age 37 and 38 seasons. And, of course, Boston massively benefiting from lotto luck on top of it.

Boston chose when to pivot, trading Pierce and KG in the 2013 offseason. It was a proactive move that set up their next era. I understand they got more than they should have, still it was planned and executed correctly.

In contrast Miami didn’t even give themselves a chance with Jimmy, when they really should have traded him after not extending him. He forced his way out in a midseason trade request, suspensions, walking out of practice. The Heat had no leverage; nobody was going to overpay at that point.

Boston controlled the timing and got a haul. Miami held on too long and got desperate.

I know this is easier to see now, but the FO gets paid to know their players’ tendencies, maximize assets and especially with Jimmy, there was precedent for how he reacts when he isn’t getting paid.

[SoFlaKingReal]

Reality is this team is quite bad with very little hope for meaningful improvement.

Its been a helluva 30 year run with Riley, but it's time for him to move on and new leadership with a fresh approach to tear this thing down and build it back with a sustainable foundation.

Bam and Herro are nice players. However, there is no point paying Bam all this money to masquerade as a team's best player. He is severely miscast in Miami. Also, the Herro extension would just lock us in to more years of this same mediocrity.

Start. Over.

[DayofMourning]

Bam to OKC for players and picks.

Herro to Charlotte for players and picks.

We now control our destiny!

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I can't believe that the season just ended, we were the 10th seed and got absolutely butchered in the first round of the playoffs, and fans are talking about the foundational players on our team.

We ain't got any. We have role players. Some better than others. But there is no one to build around here. Thinking we do is how we ended up here.

I think Bam is a semi-foundational player. Not that he can be built around, but he fits any build no matter the direction you go, and he's good enough that he can play a prominent role. Everyone else is either a completely interchangeable role player, or they have talent but flaws that could impede their ability to contribute in certain builds.

The KD stuff makes me sick though, and again maybe its just my own bias against KD as a player, but there's nothing about that move that excites me even if they found a way to get him here without giving up Bam/Tyler. I can just picture it now, 46-36, 5th seed, bounced by the Knicks in the first round in 5 games, while Ware looks like an All-Star in Phoenix. That's the stuff of nightmares.

At least where we are now, we have potential either way. We have enough youth that we can tank and start something fresh, we have enough talent that if an actually youthful game changer becomes available, we could reload. But you commit to an old KD and we face potential doomsday, no youth left, locked in to a truly mediocre squad.

KD is the 37 year old with 3 kids from 3 baby daddies, we don't need that mess.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Regarding Boston--they were the beneficiaries of one of the most lopsided trades in NBA history courtesy of pure incompetence on the part of Billy King.

It's not like they cut bait with their stars early in an anticipatory fashion. Ray Allen chose to leave Boston to go to Miami. Then Boston was a shell of itself, going 500 on the season, and flopped in round 1 of the 2014 playoffs vs the knicks. Paul Pierce was traded going into his age 36 season where he had just put up 18 ppg and had just shot 37% FG in the playoffs and Kevin Garnett was a 37 years old shell of himself averaging 14.8 ppg and career worst defensive impact across the board.

Billy King traded 3FRPs and a FRP swap (no protections and each conveyed in the next 3 seasons). As anyone could have predicted when trading for a washed 36 year old Pierce and 37 year old Garnett, those picks turned into 2 top 3 picks--Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum.

That's effectively the equivalent of Miami keeping & extending Jimmy through his 2028 season, then trading him after the next season to a team for 2 unprotected FRPs that would convey during Jimmy's age 37 and 38 seasons. And, of course, Boston massively benefiting from lotto luck on top of it.

Boston chose when to pivot, trading Pierce and KG in the 2013 offseason. It was a proactive move that set up their next era. I understand they got more than they should have, still it was planned and executed correctly.

In contrast Miami didn’t even give themselves a chance with Jimmy, when they really should have traded him after not extending him. He forced his way out in a midseason trade request, suspensions, walking out of practice. The Heat had no leverage; nobody was going to overpay at that point.

Boston controlled the timing and got a haul. Miami held on too long and got desperate.

I know this is easier to see now, but the FO gets paid to know their players’ tendencies, maximize assets and especially with Jimmy, there was precedent for how he reacts when he isn’t getting paid.

Getting out ahead of the Jimmy situation is one way to look at it, but we still have room to make this a controlled landing instead of a flaming wreckage. Mortgaging what's left of our youth and picks for a KD or Ja Morant is what can lead to the flaming wreckage.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I don’t think anyone is saying to build and base the entire roster/gameplan around Bam or Herro, at least not from my perspective in what I’ve read. What we do know is if you give Spo/Bam a bonafide number 1 guy they can be huge pieces in making deep playoff runs (this is a 100% proven fact) and Bam will be a better/more complete player this time around and has some frontcourt help finally. We made these runs without Tyler, what if Tyler is able to translate his game in a lesser role when we get to the playoffs next to a true number 1 and hopefully a playmaker and that’s the next step he takes in his game?

In just their first season together we had a 108.5 DRTG with Bam and Ware on the court together, that would rank 2nd in the league. We might be on the brink of having a next level defense next year getting those 2 more acclimated and hopefully some other solid 2 way guys joining. We just need that elite offensive talent infusion and some playmaking.

And no Tim Hardaway I’m not saying this because of Bam, I want to win championships with or without Bam (sure it’d be nice with him) were the Miami Heat that’s what we fuxkin do!!

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I don’t think anyone is saying to build and base the entire roster/gameplan around Bam or Herro, at least not from my perspective in what I’ve read. What we do know is if you give Spo/Bam a bonafide number 1 guy they can be huge pieces in making deep playoff runs (this is a 100% proven fact) and Bam will be a better/more complete player this time around and has some frontcourt help finally. We made these runs without Tyler, what if Tyler is able to translate his game in a lesser role when we get to the playoffs next to a true number 1 and hopefully a playmaker and that’s the next step he takes in his game?

In just their first season together we had a 108.5 DRTG with Bam and Ware on the court together, that would rank 2nd in the league. We might be on the brink of having a next level defense next year getting those 2 more acclimated and hopefully some other solid 2 way guys joining. We just need that elite offensive talent infusion and some playmaking.

And no Tim Hardaway I’m not saying this because of Bam, I want to win championships with or without Bam (sure it’d be nice with him) were the Miami Heat that’s what we fuxkin do!!

It's not about Bam for me. The KD situation is about wanting to ride with old KD, and that's not something I'm down with, and if it was I'd have rather just paid Jimmy. I do not believe in KD as the guy who can turn this around.

But maybe I'm wrong, we'll see if that's the direction they go. The fact Tyler is improved and healthy is an addition the Jimmy squads never had. So who knows. Then again, I still like the fit of Jimmy next to Tyler more than KD, Jimmy would be able to feed Tyler and blend in, KD and Tyler to me I don't see the synergy, and old Durant isn't going to help more than Jimmy did to cover Tyler's defense.

And this is all ignoring you have to give something up to get Durant. At minimum you're looking at picks and Kel'el Ware. So if it doesn't work out, you give up all the pieces that would be part of a rebuild.