PG - this is the opposite of fun

[nedleeds]

Mike Malone is Steve C!ifford, he's not changing ****. Thibs, Ma!one, Clifford, Vogel all retread turd moderate upgrsdes from Scott Brooks

[Clyde_Style]

All the all-stars, MVP candidates and HOFers who praise him must be among those guys who are confused.

He's not for everyone and I'm not sure he's even right for this team anymore, but he didn't get all those wins and trust of his players by accident.

Guys playing for him now saying nice things about Thibs is hardly the same as former players spilling the beans and telling it like it is.

You can't go by what his nephew Jalen Brunson says about Thibs.

I take whatever Brunson and Hart say about Thibs and drop it into the trash can. It is meaningless.

What about Rose, Taj, Noah, Deng, KG, Pierce, Butler, etc...

Jeff Teague's opinion counts for more than all of them?

That's right

It is easy to say you love Thibs and not go into specifics.

Meanwhile, when the whole NBA is polled with the freedom to say how they feel in anonymity Thibs was voted the coach players least wanted to play for. And that cannot only be because of the minutes his starters play. To be that unpopular among the player population takes more than just fear of minutes.

So of course I give complete credence to a legit player like Teague saying Thibs doesn't run chit

We had a member of the forum here report back after one of our most recent games that they sat directly behind Thibs and he did not draw up any plays all game long

[nedleeds]

why does mikal bridges suck so much???? it pisses me off badly

Good news is you'll be thinking of him until 2031 ... 6 years from now in the lottery when we've finally paid off his tab and he is long gone from the league. You'll smile and think, man nedleeds was right about everything but Frank.

[GONYK]

Guys playing for him now saying nice things about Thibs is hardly the same as former players spilling the beans and telling it like it is.

You can't go by what his nephew Jalen Brunson says about Thibs.

I take whatever Brunson and Hart say about Thibs and drop it into the trash can. It is meaningless.

What about Rose, Taj, Noah, Deng, KG, Pierce, Butler, etc...

Jeff Teague's opinion counts for more than all of them?

That's right

It is easy to say you love Thibs and not go into specifics.

Meanwhile, when the whole NBA is polled with the freedom to say how they feel in anonymity Thibs was voted the coach players least wanted to play for.

So of course I give complete credence to a legit player like Teague saying Thibs doesn't run chit

We had a member of the forum here report back after one of our most recent games that they sat directly behind Thibs and he did not draw up any plays all game long

Teague's entire podcast is telling stories about how lazy he was (which is why he said he liked playing for Thibs)

I get that Thibs isn't popular but let's not overindex on one account and disregard what winners, who experienced winning with Thibs also have to say.

None of this is to say Thibs is a great offensive mind either or that I am endorsing him. Just establishing that he's led warriors in the past and they stand by him for a reason. He's imperfect but he's not stupid.

[Clyde_Style]

What about Rose, Taj, Noah, Deng, KG, Pierce, Butler, etc...

Jeff Teague's opinion counts for more than all of them?

That's right

It is easy to say you love Thibs and not go into specifics.

Meanwhile, when the whole NBA is polled with the freedom to say how they feel in anonymity Thibs was voted the coach players least wanted to play for.

So of course I give complete credence to a legit player like Teague saying Thibs doesn't run chit

We had a member of the forum here report back after one of our most recent games that they sat directly behind Thibs and he did not draw up any plays all game long

Teague's entire podcast is telling stories about how lazy he was (which is why he said he liked playing for Thibs)

I get that Thibs isn't popular but let's not overindex on one account and disregard what winners, who experienced winning with Thibs also have to say.

None of this is to say Thibs is a great offensive mind either or that I am endorsing him. Just establishing that he's led warriors in the past and they stand by him for a reason. He's imperfect but he's not stupid.

Didn't use the word stupid

This is merely about US guys here who watch every dumb game seeing that Thibs doesn't run chit having it corroborated in multiple ways.

Whether guys love Thibs or not is irrelevant. It does not redeem Thibs and make him more credible.

If he don't run plays then he don't run plays. The bottom line is the inmates run the asylum and we don't have the kind of roster that self-regulates itself into a cohesive team-oriented team. A coach is supposed to do that, but Thibs does not so it is up to the players and this collection of players are not up to that task. Therefore, Thibs is failing, because he needs guys who manage themselves better than our guys.

The guy is an empty shell as a coach at least now. He may have been more actively engaged once upon a time, but these days he literally does NOTHING but stand on the sidelines and bark like a balding seal.

His small fan club does not change that reality. He's basically useless (which may be worse than calling him stupid).

[GONYK]

That's right

It is easy to say you love Thibs and not go into specifics.

Meanwhile, when the whole NBA is polled with the freedom to say how they feel in anonymity Thibs was voted the coach players least wanted to play for.

So of course I give complete credence to a legit player like Teague saying Thibs doesn't run chit

We had a member of the forum here report back after one of our most recent games that they sat directly behind Thibs and he did not draw up any plays all game long

Teague's entire podcast is telling stories about how lazy he was (which is why he said he liked playing for Thibs)

I get that Thibs isn't popular but let's not overindex on one account and disregard what winners, who experienced winning with Thibs also have to say.

None of this is to say Thibs is a great offensive mind either or that I am endorsing him. Just establishing that he's led warriors in the past and they stand by him for a reason. He's imperfect but he's not stupid.

Didn't use the word stupid

This is merely about US guys here who watch every dumb game seeing that Thibs doesn't run chit having it corroborated in multiple ways.

Whether guys love Thibs or not is irrelevant. It does not redeem Thibs and make him more credible.

If he don't run plays then he don't run plays. The bottom line is the inmates run the asylum and we don't have the kind of roster that self-regulates itself into a cohesive team-oriented team. A coach is supposed to do that, but Thibs does not so it is up to the players and this collection of players are not up to that task. Therefore, Thibs is failing, because he needs guys who manage themselves better than our guys.

The guy is an empty shell as a coach at least now. He may have been more actively engaged once upon a time, but these days he literally does NOTHING but stand on the sidelines and bark like a balding seal.

His small fan club does not change that reality. He's basically useless (which may be worse than calling him stupid).

If you say so.

I'm merely pointing out that highly qualified people who would be much more informed and have more skin in the game disagree.

[spree8]

Teague's entire podcast is telling stories about how lazy he was (which is why he said he liked playing for Thibs)

I get that Thibs isn't popular but let's not overindex on one account and disregard what winners, who experienced winning with Thibs also have to say.

None of this is to say Thibs is a great offensive mind either or that I am endorsing him. Just establishing that he's led warriors in the past and they stand by him for a reason. He's imperfect but he's not stupid.

Didn't use the word stupid

This is merely about US guys here who watch every dumb game seeing that Thibs doesn't run chit having it corroborated in multiple ways.

Whether guys love Thibs or not is irrelevant. It does not redeem Thibs and make him more credible.

If he don't run plays then he don't run plays. The bottom line is the inmates run the asylum and we don't have the kind of roster that self-regulates itself into a cohesive team-oriented team. A coach is supposed to do that, but Thibs does not so it is up to the players and this collection of players are not up to that task. Therefore, Thibs is failing, because he needs guys who manage themselves better than our guys.

The guy is an empty shell as a coach at least now. He may have been more actively engaged once upon a time, but these days he literally does NOTHING but stand on the sidelines and bark like a balding seal.

His small fan club does not change that reality. He's basically useless (which may be worse than calling him stupid).

If you say so.

I'm merely pointing out that people who would be much more informed and have more skin in the game disagree.

What do they disagree with tho? KG n Pierce came out on record this year saying everything the board has been saying about Thibs running the starters into the ground and how come playoff time, they’ll be cooked. They also told stories of how they fought with Thibs like crazy to the point where they told him he’ll never be a head coach in this league. Even Jimmy has been on record talking shyt about Thibs minutes. Now Teague is telling stories about a lack of offense. These are the main issues with him still to this day.

[GONYK]

Didn't use the word stupid

This is merely about US guys here who watch every dumb game seeing that Thibs doesn't run chit having it corroborated in multiple ways.

Whether guys love Thibs or not is irrelevant. It does not redeem Thibs and make him more credible.

If he don't run plays then he don't run plays. The bottom line is the inmates run the asylum and we don't have the kind of roster that self-regulates itself into a cohesive team-oriented team. A coach is supposed to do that, but Thibs does not so it is up to the players and this collection of players are not up to that task. Therefore, Thibs is failing, because he needs guys who manage themselves better than our guys.

The guy is an empty shell as a coach at least now. He may have been more actively engaged once upon a time, but these days he literally does NOTHING but stand on the sidelines and bark like a balding seal.

His small fan club does not change that reality. He's basically useless (which may be worse than calling him stupid).

If you say so.

I'm merely pointing out that people who would be much more informed and have more skin in the game disagree.

What do they disagree with tho? KG n Pierce came out on record this year saying everything the board has been saying about Thibs running the starters into the ground and how come playoff time, they’ll be cooked. They also told stories of how they fought with Thibs like crazy to the point where they told him he’ll never be a head coach in this league. Even Jimmy has been on record talking shyt about Thibs minutes. Now Teague is telling stories about a lack of offense. These are the main issues with him.

Sure but not a single one said he was a bad coach or that they didn't like playing for him.

On balance, he has way more endorsements than detractors.

Again, I'm not saying the criticisms are invalid or that he should be kept. Just saying that accomplished players past and present still stick with him.

Draw whatever conclusions you want from that.

[Clyde_Style]

Teague's entire podcast is telling stories about how lazy he was (which is why he said he liked playing for Thibs)

I get that Thibs isn't popular but let's not overindex on one account and disregard what winners, who experienced winning with Thibs also have to say.

None of this is to say Thibs is a great offensive mind either or that I am endorsing him. Just establishing that he's led warriors in the past and they stand by him for a reason. He's imperfect but he's not stupid.

Didn't use the word stupid

This is merely about US guys here who watch every dumb game seeing that Thibs doesn't run chit having it corroborated in multiple ways.

Whether guys love Thibs or not is irrelevant. It does not redeem Thibs and make him more credible.

If he don't run plays then he don't run plays. The bottom line is the inmates run the asylum and we don't have the kind of roster that self-regulates itself into a cohesive team-oriented team. A coach is supposed to do that, but Thibs does not so it is up to the players and this collection of players are not up to that task. Therefore, Thibs is failing, because he needs guys who manage themselves better than our guys.

The guy is an empty shell as a coach at least now. He may have been more actively engaged once upon a time, but these days he literally does NOTHING but stand on the sidelines and bark like a balding seal.

His small fan club does not change that reality. He's basically useless (which may be worse than calling him stupid).

If you say so.

I'm merely pointing out that highly qualified people who would be much more informed and have more skin in the game disagree.

People with skin in the game are often the least trustworthy accounts to draw conclusions from.

Would you say the person who attended the game and reported that Thibs did not draw up any plays was not a credible source of information because they are not (a) a former Thibs player or (b) an NBA player?

Thibs does not run plays. WTF do I care if players love him? All I care about is the guy is not doing his job.

[Clyde_Style]

If you say so.

I'm merely pointing out that people who would be much more informed and have more skin in the game disagree.

What do they disagree with tho? KG n Pierce came out on record this year saying everything the board has been saying about Thibs running the starters into the ground and how come playoff time, they’ll be cooked. They also told stories of how they fought with Thibs like crazy to the point where they told him he’ll never be a head coach in this league. Even Jimmy has been on record talking shyt about Thibs minutes. Now Teague is telling stories about a lack of offense. These are the main issues with him.

Sure but not a single one said he was a bad coach or that they didn't like playing for him.

On balance, he has way more endorsements than detractors.

Again, I'm not saying the criticisms are invalid or that he should be kept. Just saying that accomplished players past and present still stick with him.

Draw whatever conclusions you want from that.

You're talking about players feelings about Thibs.

Are they talking about the plays he runs? No, because he doesn't run plays. He hands them the ball and yells Go!

[spree8]

If you say so.

I'm merely pointing out that people who would be much more informed and have more skin in the game disagree.

What do they disagree with tho? KG n Pierce came out on record this year saying everything the board has been saying about Thibs running the starters into the ground and how come playoff time, they’ll be cooked. They also told stories of how they fought with Thibs like crazy to the point where they told him he’ll never be a head coach in this league. Even Jimmy has been on record talking shyt about Thibs minutes. Now Teague is telling stories about a lack of offense. These are the main issues with him.

Sure but not a single one said he was a bad coach or that they didn't like playing for him.

On balance, he has way more endorsements than detractors.

Again, I'm not saying the criticisms are invalid or that he should be kept. Just saying that accomplished players past and present still stick with him.

Draw whatever conclusions you want from that.

I just mentioned KG told him to his face he’ll never be a head coach in the league during a major fight in practice. Sure it was said out of anger and I’m sure he doesn’t still mean it, but it came from somewhere for a reason. KAT talked a lot of shyt about Thibs holding him back once he left Minny too. There’s a reason for several years he’s been voted dead last amongst coaches players wanna play for.

Thing is tho, it’s not really a good argument to use his past players in his defense like this because at the end of the day they’re not going to declare publicly that they hate him or didn’t like playing for him. Whatever issues there were, it’s water under the bridge so they’ll tell stories and joke about it as it’s a sentimental thing looking back on their career. Win or lose they were in the trenches with him so they’ll always have his back in that regard. It doesn’t hold much weight when you try to use it to support an argument like this.

If you ask those guys to choose who they would’ve rather have played for, Thibs or someone like Spo, guarantee every one of them takes the latter (Jimmy has actually said this on JJ’s pod) because they know Thibs isn’t the guy to get you to the title… he’s too stubborn (like KG n Pierce said), and set in his ways which aren’t conducive to winning a title.

[GONYK]

What do they disagree with tho? KG n Pierce came out on record this year saying everything the board has been saying about Thibs running the starters into the ground and how come playoff time, they’ll be cooked. They also told stories of how they fought with Thibs like crazy to the point where they told him he’ll never be a head coach in this league. Even Jimmy has been on record talking shyt about Thibs minutes. Now Teague is telling stories about a lack of offense. These are the main issues with him.

Sure but not a single one said he was a bad coach or that they didn't like playing for him.

On balance, he has way more endorsements than detractors.

Again, I'm not saying the criticisms are invalid or that he should be kept. Just saying that accomplished players past and present still stick with him.

Draw whatever conclusions you want from that.

I just mentioned KG told him to his face he’ll never be a head coach in the league during a major fight in practice. Sure it was said out of anger and I’m sure he doesn’t still mean it, but it came from somewhere for a reason. KAT talked a lot of shyt about Thibs holding him back once he left Minny too. There’s a reason for several years he’s been voted dead last amongst coaches players wanna play for.

Thing is tho, it’s not really a good argument to use his past players in his defense like this because at the end of the day they’re not going to declare publicly that they hate him or didn’t like playing for him. Whatever issues there were, it’s water under the bridge so they’ll tell stories and joke about it as it’s a sentimental thing looking back on their career. Win or lose they were in the trenches with him so they’ll always have his back in that regard. It doesn’t hold much weight when you try to use it to support an argument like this.

If you ask those guys to choose who they would’ve rather have played for, Thibs or someone like Spo, guarantee every one of them takes the latter (Jimmy has actually said this on JJ’s pod) because they know Thibs isn’t the guy to get you to the title… he’s too stubborn (like KG n Pierce said), and set in his ways which aren’t conducive to winning a title.

I'm not really making an argument one way or another about Thibs.

What I'm really saying is Jeff Teague doesn't carry much weight when compared to the other people who've spoken on Thibs.

[GONYK]

Didn't use the word stupid

This is merely about US guys here who watch every dumb game seeing that Thibs doesn't run chit having it corroborated in multiple ways.

Whether guys love Thibs or not is irrelevant. It does not redeem Thibs and make him more credible.

If he don't run plays then he don't run plays. The bottom line is the inmates run the asylum and we don't have the kind of roster that self-regulates itself into a cohesive team-oriented team. A coach is supposed to do that, but Thibs does not so it is up to the players and this collection of players are not up to that task. Therefore, Thibs is failing, because he needs guys who manage themselves better than our guys.

The guy is an empty shell as a coach at least now. He may have been more actively engaged once upon a time, but these days he literally does NOTHING but stand on the sidelines and bark like a balding seal.

His small fan club does not change that reality. He's basically useless (which may be worse than calling him stupid).

If you say so.

I'm merely pointing out that highly qualified people who would be much more informed and have more skin in the game disagree.

People with skin in the game are often the least trustworthy accounts to draw conclusions from.

Would you say the person who attended the game and reported that Thibs did not draw up any plays was not a credible source of information because they are not (a) a former Thibs player or (b) an NBA player?

Thibs does not run plays. WTF do I care if players love him? All I care about is the guy is not doing his job.

Well I would probably say they are credible to their account but don't know what goes on in practice and probably haven't sat behind every coach in the league to compare how often coaches are drawing up specific plays rather than communicating concepts.

The Knicks run sets. That's undeniable. There's clips of them running plays in this thread.

The issue is that they aren't philosophically rooted in the right objectives.

[spree8]

Sure but not a single one said he was a bad coach or that they didn't like playing for him.

On balance, he has way more endorsements than detractors.

Again, I'm not saying the criticisms are invalid or that he should be kept. Just saying that accomplished players past and present still stick with him.

Draw whatever conclusions you want from that.

I just mentioned KG told him to his face he’ll never be a head coach in the league during a major fight in practice. Sure it was said out of anger and I’m sure he doesn’t still mean it, but it came from somewhere for a reason. KAT talked a lot of shyt about Thibs holding him back once he left Minny too. There’s a reason for several years he’s been voted dead last amongst coaches players wanna play for.

Thing is tho, it’s not really a good argument to use his past players in his defense like this because at the end of the day they’re not going to declare publicly that they hate him or didn’t like playing for him. Whatever issues there were, it’s water under the bridge so they’ll tell stories and joke about it as it’s a sentimental thing looking back on their career. Win or lose they were in the trenches with him so they’ll always have his back in that regard. It doesn’t hold much weight when you try to use it to support an argument like this.

If you ask those guys to choose who they would’ve rather have played for, Thibs or someone like Spo, guarantee every one of them takes the latter (Jimmy has actually said this on JJ’s pod) because they know Thibs isn’t the guy to get you to the title… he’s too stubborn (like KG n Pierce said), and set in his ways which aren’t conducive to winning a title.

I'm not really making an argument one way or another about Thibs.

What I'm really saying is Jeff Teague doesn't carry much weight when compared to the other people who've spoken on Thibs.

Why wouldn’t he carry much weight tho? I mentioned things said by KG, Pierce, Butler, and KAT that are issues we’re dealing with now. Who/what are you referring to that would diminish any of those things mentioned?

[Clyde_Style]

If you say so.

I'm merely pointing out that highly qualified people who would be much more informed and have more skin in the game disagree.

People with skin in the game are often the least trustworthy accounts to draw conclusions from.

Would you say the person who attended the game and reported that Thibs did not draw up any plays was not a credible source of information because they are not (a) a former Thibs player or (b) an NBA player?

Thibs does not run plays. WTF do I care if players love him? All I care about is the guy is not doing his job.

Well I would probably say they are credible to their account but don't know what goes on in practice and probably haven't sat behind every coach in the league to compare how often coaches are drawing up specific plays rather than communicating concepts.

The Knicks run sets. That's undeniable. There's clips of them running plays in this thread.

The issue is that they aren't philosophically rooted in the right objectives.

I specifically asked you if you consider a direct report from behind the bench that Thibs did not draw up any plays during a game as credible. That's more relevant than any player's comments.

Again, you want to talk about feelings. The players feeling this or that about Thibs is not relevant to the issue of whether or not he is actually doing his job.

Anybody with eyes can see he is not managing the team during the game, just blabbering. He so rarely makes strategic in-game adjustments that when he actually does something as simple as keep in the hot hand instead of rotating them to the bench some of the board goes bananas over what a wonderful thing Thibs just did as if it was a magical moment proving he can actually coach. It's a farce.

Forget the players. What matters is WHAT HE IS DOING OR NOT DOING. Saying we do not know what happens in practice is not a rebuttal.

THE GAMES ARE THE EVIDENCE.

Talking about the player's feelings doesn't change the fact Thibs is not actively play calling during games. That's the only thing that matters here, because he's not actually coaching any longer. He's a figurehead.

[GONYK]

I just mentioned KG told him to his face he’ll never be a head coach in the league during a major fight in practice. Sure it was said out of anger and I’m sure he doesn’t still mean it, but it came from somewhere for a reason. KAT talked a lot of shyt about Thibs holding him back once he left Minny too. There’s a reason for several years he’s been voted dead last amongst coaches players wanna play for.

Thing is tho, it’s not really a good argument to use his past players in his defense like this because at the end of the day they’re not going to declare publicly that they hate him or didn’t like playing for him. Whatever issues there were, it’s water under the bridge so they’ll tell stories and joke about it as it’s a sentimental thing looking back on their career. Win or lose they were in the trenches with him so they’ll always have his back in that regard. It doesn’t hold much weight when you try to use it to support an argument like this.

If you ask those guys to choose who they would’ve rather have played for, Thibs or someone like Spo, guarantee every one of them takes the latter (Jimmy has actually said this on JJ’s pod) because they know Thibs isn’t the guy to get you to the title… he’s too stubborn (like KG n Pierce said), and set in his ways which aren’t conducive to winning a title.

I'm not really making an argument one way or another about Thibs.

What I'm really saying is Jeff Teague doesn't carry much weight when compared to the other people who've spoken on Thibs.

Why wouldn’t he carry much weight tho? I mentioned things said by KG, Pierce, Butler, and KAT that are issues we’re dealing with now. Who/what are you referring to that would diminish any of those things mentioned?

Nothing. I didn't say the criticisms aren't valid. I'm saying that they rock with him at the end of the day in spite of that, so that should be factored alongside any one anectode.

Honestly, what I was speaking to with this was part of a larger context so we might be missing each other without the context.

[GONYK]

People with skin in the game are often the least trustworthy accounts to draw conclusions from.

Would you say the person who attended the game and reported that Thibs did not draw up any plays was not a credible source of information because they are not (a) a former Thibs player or (b) an NBA player?

Thibs does not run plays. WTF do I care if players love him? All I care about is the guy is not doing his job.

Well I would probably say they are credible to their account but don't know what goes on in practice and probably haven't sat behind every coach in the league to compare how often coaches are drawing up specific plays rather than communicating concepts.

The Knicks run sets. That's undeniable. There's clips of them running plays in this thread.

The issue is that they aren't philosophically rooted in the right objectives.

I specifically asked you if you consider a direct report from behind the bench that Thibs did not draw up any plays during a game as credible. That's more relevant than any player's comments.

Again, you want to talk about feelings. The players feeling this or that about Thibs is not relevant to the issue of whether or not he is actually doing his job.

Anybody with eyes can see he is not managing the team during the game, just blabbering. He so rarely makes strategic in-game adjustments that when he actually does something as simple as keep in the hot hand instead of rotating them to the bench some of the board goes bananas over what a wonderful thing Thibs just did as if it was a magical moment proving he can actually coach. It's a farce.

Forget the players. What matters is WHAT HE IS DOING OR NOT DOING. Saying we do not know what happens in practice is not a rebuttal.

THE GAMES ARE THE EVIDENCE.

Talking about the player's feelings doesn't change the fact Thibs is not actively play calling during games. That's the only thing that matters here, because he's not actually coaching any longer. He's a figurehead.

If he isn't coaching now then he was never coaching because he's been doing the same thing for 30 years.

That's sort of my point.

[Capn'O]

Either we have a miracle run next round or he's gone.

I'm just grateful he took Riley down a peg in franchise relevance this season. Come what may from here.

[Capn'O]

Did Phil Jackson ever draw up a play? Read and react.

[GONYK]

Did Phil Jackson ever draw up a play? Read and react.

Phil barely called timeouts