The Bulls should go all in for Zion

[Dan Z]

The injury risks are real and valid.

Zion to me was always an "if the price is right" option.

The concerns raised by you and others probably has me lowering my walk away price, but I'd still pursue it.

Before I felt like I would have happily sent a package of Coby, 2025 pick, PDX pick and expiring contracts for Zion.

My willingness to even go that high has since been hampered.

Maybe Coby, Williams, Vuc, 2025 pick for Zion and Olynyk

I would do either of those trades FWIW, and I know I've posted a lot of things about Zion's health, but they have mainly been just in response to people whom I feel are being too rosy about it.

I'm not trying to say this can't work or we shouldn't even look at it. There is risk in trading for Zion, but we aren't on a path to anything now. I'm okay if the assets are the Portland pick, our 2025 pick, and Coby because I don't think Coby will excite me on his next contract and I don't expect all that much from either of those picks (assuming of course we do not move up, which we will know prior to looking at a deal).

Even better to me if the offer was Giddey in a S&T for Zion, but probably too complicated to figure that out.

I don't know why New Orleans would take that deal (Coby, 2025 pick (#12), contract filler and the Portland pick). I like Coby, but he's streaky and up for a new contract in a year. Is he a player the Pelicans want to build with? The #12 pick is okay and the Portland pick is unknown (but not great).

I think New Orleans can do better.

[dougthonus]

I don't know why New Orleans would take that deal (Coby, 2025 pick (#12), contract filler and the Portland pick). I like Coby, but he's streaky and up for a new contract in a year. Is he a player the Pelicans want to build with? The #12 pick is okay and the Portland pick is unknown (but not great).

I think New Orleans can do better.

I agree. I doubt I would be the high bidder on Zion if I ran the Bulls.

[sco]

I don't know why New Orleans would take that deal (Coby, 2025 pick (#12), contract filler and the Portland pick). I like Coby, but he's streaky and up for a new contract in a year. Is he a player the Pelicans want to build with? The #12 pick is okay and the Portland pick is unknown (but not great).

I think New Orleans can do better.

I agree. I doubt I would be the high bidder on Zion if I ran the Bulls.

I agree too. The hard issue is valuing the boom/bust risk on such a deal. IMO, there will be a GM who is on the hot seat who sees this as his best shot to stick around and doesn't care as much about picks 2/4/6 years from now. This is one of those times I'm glad that AK isn't feeling the heat. The Coby plus 12/Por 1st/filler is about as high as I'd go. Adding a 3rd (protected) pick would only be a consideration if we got rid of PWill in the deal, but I'm waivering on that.

[Dan Z]

I don't know why New Orleans would take that deal (Coby, 2025 pick (#12), contract filler and the Portland pick). I like Coby, but he's streaky and up for a new contract in a year. Is he a player the Pelicans want to build with? The #12 pick is okay and the Portland pick is unknown (but not great).

I think New Orleans can do better.

I agree. I doubt I would be the high bidder on Zion if I ran the Bulls.

I agree too. The hard issue is valuing the boom/bust risk on such a deal. IMO, there will be a GM who is on the hot seat who sees this as his best shot to stick around and doesn't care as much about picks 2/4/6 years from now. This is one of those times I'm glad that AK isn't feeling the heat. The Coby plus 12/Por 1st/filler is about as high as I'd go. Adding a 3rd (protected) pick would only be a consideration if we got rid of PWill in the deal, but I'm waivering on that.

I don't know if they have salaries that can match, but if I'm New Orleans I'd call up Charlotte to see if they're interested. Zion for picks plus contract filler...? Right now Charlotte has the 3rd pick in the draft plus they own a 2027 Dallas and 2027 Miami pick (and all their own going forward). I wouldn't expect them to trade all that for Zion, but maybe something could be worked out...? Zion, Ball, Miller, Bridges and Williams could be an exciting team if their health holds up.

However, if I'm Charlotte I'd trade Ball and continue building through the draft.

[sco]

I agree. I doubt I would be the high bidder on Zion if I ran the Bulls.

I agree too. The hard issue is valuing the boom/bust risk on such a deal. IMO, there will be a GM who is on the hot seat who sees this as his best shot to stick around and doesn't care as much about picks 2/4/6 years from now. This is one of those times I'm glad that AK isn't feeling the heat. The Coby plus 12/Por 1st/filler is about as high as I'd go. Adding a 3rd (protected) pick would only be a consideration if we got rid of PWill in the deal, but I'm waivering on that.

I don't know if they have salaries that can match, but if I'm New Orleans I'd call up Charlotte to see if they're interested. Zion for picks plus contract filler...? Right now Charlotte has the 3rd pick in the draft plus they own a 2027 Dallas and 2027 Miami pick (and all their own going forward). I wouldn't expect them to trade all that for Zion, but maybe something could be worked out...? Zion, Ball, Miller, Bridges and Williams could be an exciting team if their health holds up.

However, if I'm Charlotte I'd trade Ball and continue building through the draft.

CHA couldn't make the $ work in that deal. But I would consider adding #3 pick as centerpiece for Zion...gets murky if they get #2, forget #1.

And look, there are a bunch of teams where he might fit better and/or could pay more, but he's a bit radioactive, so I could see teams shying away from stepping into that risk.

[Dan Z]

I agree too. The hard issue is valuing the boom/bust risk on such a deal. IMO, there will be a GM who is on the hot seat who sees this as his best shot to stick around and doesn't care as much about picks 2/4/6 years from now. This is one of those times I'm glad that AK isn't feeling the heat. The Coby plus 12/Por 1st/filler is about as high as I'd go. Adding a 3rd (protected) pick would only be a consideration if we got rid of PWill in the deal, but I'm waivering on that.

I don't know if they have salaries that can match, but if I'm New Orleans I'd call up Charlotte to see if they're interested. Zion for picks plus contract filler...? Right now Charlotte has the 3rd pick in the draft plus they own a 2027 Dallas and 2027 Miami pick (and all their own going forward). I wouldn't expect them to trade all that for Zion, but maybe something could be worked out...? Zion, Ball, Miller, Bridges and Williams could be an exciting team if their health holds up.

However, if I'm Charlotte I'd trade Ball and continue building through the draft.

CHA couldn't make the $ work in that deal. But I would consider adding #3 pick as centerpiece for Zion...gets murky if they get #2, forget #1.

And look, there are a bunch of teams where he might fit better and/or could pay more, but he's a bit radioactive, so I could see teams shying away from stepping into that risk.

I agree and as a Bulls fan I wouldn't take that risk.

If Charlotte wasn't interested maybe one of these teams would be?
Miami
Brooklyn
Sacramento

[sco]

I don't know if they have salaries that can match, but if I'm New Orleans I'd call up Charlotte to see if they're interested. Zion for picks plus contract filler...? Right now Charlotte has the 3rd pick in the draft plus they own a 2027 Dallas and 2027 Miami pick (and all their own going forward). I wouldn't expect them to trade all that for Zion, but maybe something could be worked out...? Zion, Ball, Miller, Bridges and Williams could be an exciting team if their health holds up.

However, if I'm Charlotte I'd trade Ball and continue building through the draft.

CHA couldn't make the $ work in that deal. But I would consider adding #3 pick as centerpiece for Zion...gets murky if they get #2, forget #1.

And look, there are a bunch of teams where he might fit better and/or could pay more, but he's a bit radioactive, so I could see teams shying away from stepping into that risk.

I agree and as a Bulls fan I wouldn't take that risk.

If Charlotte wasn't interested maybe one of these teams would be?
Miami
Brooklyn
Sacramento

So there's no price for Zion that you'd be willing to pay?

[Dan Z]

CHA couldn't make the $ work in that deal. But I would consider adding #3 pick as centerpiece for Zion...gets murky if they get #2, forget #1.

And look, there are a bunch of teams where he might fit better and/or could pay more, but he's a bit radioactive, so I could see teams shying away from stepping into that risk.

I agree and as a Bulls fan I wouldn't take that risk.

If Charlotte wasn't interested maybe one of these teams would be?
Miami
Brooklyn
Sacramento

So there's no price for Zion that you'd be willing to pay?

Not one that I think would be realistic. I'd hate for the Bulls to trade for him and then he's another Ball or Rose where the Bulls keep waiting for Zion to be healthy again. Then a few years later they move on.

I'm not saying that would happen, but it's a possibility and one that I wouldn't want to deal with.

Of course if New Orleans traded him for expiring contracts and that's it then you do it, but why would they do that? They'll want assets.

[sco]

I agree and as a Bulls fan I wouldn't take that risk.

If Charlotte wasn't interested maybe one of these teams would be?
Miami
Brooklyn
Sacramento

So there's no price for Zion that you'd be willing to pay?

Not one that I think would be realistic. I'd hate for the Bulls to trade for him and then he's another Ball or Rose where the Bulls keep waiting for Zion to be healthy again. Then a few years later they move on.

I'm not saying that would happen, but it's a possibility and one that I wouldn't want to deal with.

Of course if New Orleans traded him for expiring contracts and that's it then you do it, but why would they do that? They'll want assets.

I get it, but if the alternative is doing nothing (but of course other players will come available, but probably not at a discount, where Zion may come with one) then taking a flier that doesn't set us back much seems ok to me. And by that I look at Coby as very replaceable plus #12 (likely role player) plus POR 1st (non-lotto) as a small setback if he doesn't work out. The upside is contending.

[Dan Z]

So there's no price for Zion that you'd be willing to pay?

Not one that I think would be realistic. I'd hate for the Bulls to trade for him and then he's another Ball or Rose where the Bulls keep waiting for Zion to be healthy again. Then a few years later they move on.

I'm not saying that would happen, but it's a possibility and one that I wouldn't want to deal with.

Of course if New Orleans traded him for expiring contracts and that's it then you do it, but why would they do that? They'll want assets.

I get it, but if the alternative is doing nothing (but of course other players will come available, but probably not at a discount, where Zion may come with one) then taking a flier that doesn't set us back much seems ok to me. And by that I look at Coby as very replaceable plus #12 (likely role player) plus POR 1st (non-lotto) as a small setback if he doesn't work out. The upside is contending.

I don't think New Orleans takes that deal. At his best Zion is a top player (all-star) and at worst he is injured and doesn't play (with a contract that gives his team an out).

Coby, the #12 pick and the Portland pick doesn't add much to the New Orleans team. I like Coby, but is a back court of Coby and CJ McCollum going to do much next year? After that they'll have to pay Coby.

If that was the only deal available for Zion then I'd rather take my chances that Zion has a healthy season (if I'm the Pelicans).

[kodo]

I don't think New Orleans takes that deal. At his best Zion is a top player (all-star) and at worst he is injured and doesn't play (with a contract that gives his team an out).

Coby, the #12 pick and the Portland pick doesn't add much to the New Orleans team. I like Coby, but is a back court of Coby and CJ McCollum going to do much next year? After that they'll have to pay Coby.

If that was the only deal available for Zion then I'd rather take my chances that Zion has a healthy season (if I'm the Pelicans).

Their perimeter would be:

CJ McCollum
Dejounte Murray
Coby White

Coby at SF is going to be a disaster, especially considering that spot is normally manned by lengthy athletes like Herb Jones Brandon Ingram Trey Murphy. The only other option is Coby is a bench player, but then they're going to trade Zion for a bench guy? No way.

This isn't even yet considering that NOP is likely to get a top 4 pick, so one of Flagg/Bailey/Harper/VJ who will also need a starting spot on that roster. Coby is so far down that depth chart.

[Dan Z]

I don't think New Orleans takes that deal. At his best Zion is a top player (all-star) and at worst he is injured and doesn't play (with a contract that gives his team an out).

Coby, the #12 pick and the Portland pick doesn't add much to the New Orleans team. I like Coby, but is a back court of Coby and CJ McCollum going to do much next year? After that they'll have to pay Coby.

If that was the only deal available for Zion then I'd rather take my chances that Zion has a healthy season (if I'm the Pelicans).

Their perimeter would be:

CJ McCollum
Dejounte Murray
Coby White

Coby at SF is going to be a disaster, especially considering that spot is normally manned by lengthy athletes like Herb Jones Brandon Ingram Trey Murphy. The only other option is Coby is a bench player, but then they're going to trade Zion for a bench guy? No way.

This isn't even yet considering that NOP is likely to get a top 4 pick, so one of Flagg/Bailey/Harper/VJ who will also need a starting spot on that roster. Coby is so far down that depth chart.

Murray is hurt so it'll take awhile before he comes back, but I agree with you...Zion for a bench player isn't going to happen.

The #12 pick and the Portland pick are nice to have, but they're nothing I'd be that excited about.

[jnrjr79]

Not one that I think would be realistic. I'd hate for the Bulls to trade for him and then he's another Ball or Rose where the Bulls keep waiting for Zion to be healthy again. Then a few years later they move on.

I'm not saying that would happen, but it's a possibility and one that I wouldn't want to deal with.

Of course if New Orleans traded him for expiring contracts and that's it then you do it, but why would they do that? They'll want assets.

I get it, but if the alternative is doing nothing (but of course other players will come available, but probably not at a discount, where Zion may come with one) then taking a flier that doesn't set us back much seems ok to me. And by that I look at Coby as very replaceable plus #12 (likely role player) plus POR 1st (non-lotto) as a small setback if he doesn't work out. The upside is contending.

I don't think New Orleans takes that deal. At his best Zion is a top player (all-star) and at worst he is injured and doesn't play (with a contract that gives his team an out).

Coby, the #12 pick and the Portland pick doesn't add much to the New Orleans team. I like Coby, but is a back court of Coby and CJ McCollum going to do much next year? After that they'll have to pay Coby.

If that was the only deal available for Zion then I'd rather take my chances that Zion has a healthy season (if I'm the Pelicans).

Do the Pelicans care about next year’s results?

CJ has one year left on his deal and I’d imagine they have no intention of retaining him. I have no idea if they would be interested in paying Coby,

[Dan Z]

I get it, but if the alternative is doing nothing (but of course other players will come available, but probably not at a discount, where Zion may come with one) then taking a flier that doesn't set us back much seems ok to me. And by that I look at Coby as very replaceable plus #12 (likely role player) plus POR 1st (non-lotto) as a small setback if he doesn't work out. The upside is contending.

I don't think New Orleans takes that deal. At his best Zion is a top player (all-star) and at worst he is injured and doesn't play (with a contract that gives his team an out).

Coby, the #12 pick and the Portland pick doesn't add much to the New Orleans team. I like Coby, but is a back court of Coby and CJ McCollum going to do much next year? After that they'll have to pay Coby.

If that was the only deal available for Zion then I'd rather take my chances that Zion has a healthy season (if I'm the Pelicans).

Do the Pelicans care about next year’s results?

CJ has one year left on his deal and I’d imagine they have no intention of retaining him. I have no idea if they would be interested in paying Coby,

Why wouldn't they care about next years results?

Either way wouldn't they want better assets for Zion?

[jnrjr79]

I don't think New Orleans takes that deal. At his best Zion is a top player (all-star) and at worst he is injured and doesn't play (with a contract that gives his team an out).

Coby, the #12 pick and the Portland pick doesn't add much to the New Orleans team. I like Coby, but is a back court of Coby and CJ McCollum going to do much next year? After that they'll have to pay Coby.

If that was the only deal available for Zion then I'd rather take my chances that Zion has a healthy season (if I'm the Pelicans).

Do the Pelicans care about next year’s results?

CJ has one year left on his deal and I’d imagine they have no intention of retaining him. I have no idea if they would be interested in paying Coby,

Why wouldn't they care about next years results?

Either way wouldn't they want better assets for Zion?

Because they’ve traded Ingram, seem likely to trade Zion, and probably aren’t going to be good next year. They just hired a new GM. It sure seems to me a rebuild is coming. This doesn’t seem like a roster that they’re going to make into a Western Conference competitor next season.

Maybe that calculus changes a bit if Milwaukee trades Giannis, since they have swap rights with Milwaukee. But if I were the Pellies, I’d be hitting the reset button and moving off of Zion, McCollum, Murray, etc.

Re: what they “want” for Zion, I mean, of course, they want the best assets they can get. I was only addressing the Coby/McCollum fit as a potential impediment. I agree the Bulls probably won’t make the best offer for Zion, but I also have a really hard time understanding what his market will be in light of his injury history and potential character issues.

[Dan Z]

Do the Pelicans care about next year’s results?

CJ has one year left on his deal and I’d imagine they have no intention of retaining him. I have no idea if they would be interested in paying Coby,

Why wouldn't they care about next years results?

Either way wouldn't they want better assets for Zion?

Because they’ve traded Ingram, seem likely to trade Zion, and probably aren’t going to be good next year. They just hired a new GM. It sure seems to me a rebuild is coming. This doesn’t seem like a roster that they’re going to make into a Western Conference competitor next season.

Maybe that calculus changes a bit if Milwaukee trades Giannis, since they have swap rights with Milwaukee. But if I were the Pellies, I’d be hitting the reset button and moving off of Zion, McCollum, Murray, etc.

Re: what they “want” for Zion, I mean, of course, they want the best assets they can get. I was only addressing the Coby/McCollum fit as a potential impediment. I agree the Bulls probably won’t make the best offer for Zion, but I also have a really hard time understanding what his market will be in light of his injury history and potential character issues.

They probably won't be good next year, but I don't see why they'd think Coby is a good piece for them going forward, especially when he's up for a new contract in a year.

Also, keep in mind that they currently have the 4th pick in the draft. If they stay at that spot then there's a chance that they might end up with someone like VJ Edgecombe or Tre Johnson. I don't think VJ and Coby are a good pairing.

I think there are better assets that they can get for Zion, even with all the questions surrounding him.

[sco]

Why wouldn't they care about next years results?

Either way wouldn't they want better assets for Zion?

Because they’ve traded Ingram, seem likely to trade Zion, and probably aren’t going to be good next year. They just hired a new GM. It sure seems to me a rebuild is coming. This doesn’t seem like a roster that they’re going to make into a Western Conference competitor next season.

Maybe that calculus changes a bit if Milwaukee trades Giannis, since they have swap rights with Milwaukee. But if I were the Pellies, I’d be hitting the reset button and moving off of Zion, McCollum, Murray, etc.

Re: what they “want” for Zion, I mean, of course, they want the best assets they can get. I was only addressing the Coby/McCollum fit as a potential impediment. I agree the Bulls probably won’t make the best offer for Zion, but I also have a really hard time understanding what his market will be in light of his injury history and potential character issues.

They probably won't be good next year, but I don't see why they'd think Coby is a good piece for them going forward, especially when he's up for a new contract in a year.

Also, keep in mind that they currently have the 4th pick in the draft. If they stay at that spot then there's a chance that they might end up with someone like VJ Edgecombe or Tre Johnson. I don't think VJ and Coby are a good pairing.

I think there are better assets that they can get for Zion, even with all the questions surrounding him.

I get it. Since we're talking fiction here anyway, the Bulls could just trade Coby for 1 (ideally 2) firsts from say ORL and include those.

[jnrjr79]

Why wouldn't they care about next years results?

Either way wouldn't they want better assets for Zion?

Because they’ve traded Ingram, seem likely to trade Zion, and probably aren’t going to be good next year. They just hired a new GM. It sure seems to me a rebuild is coming. This doesn’t seem like a roster that they’re going to make into a Western Conference competitor next season.

Maybe that calculus changes a bit if Milwaukee trades Giannis, since they have swap rights with Milwaukee. But if I were the Pellies, I’d be hitting the reset button and moving off of Zion, McCollum, Murray, etc.

Re: what they “want” for Zion, I mean, of course, they want the best assets they can get. I was only addressing the Coby/McCollum fit as a potential impediment. I agree the Bulls probably won’t make the best offer for Zion, but I also have a really hard time understanding what his market will be in light of his injury history and potential character issues.

They probably won't be good next year, but I don't see why they'd think Coby is a good piece for them going forward, especially when he's up for a new contract in a year.

Also, keep in mind that they currently have the 4th pick in the draft. If they stay at that spot then there's a chance that they might end up with someone like VJ Edgecombe or Tre Johnson. I don't think VJ and Coby are a good pairing.

I think there are better assets that they can get for Zion, even with all the questions surrounding him.

I don’t disagree. I was responding to the limited claim about Coby and McCollum’s fit. I don’t think that’s relevant. But if the Pellies aren’t otherwise interested in Coby, sure, it wouldn’t be shocking.

[prolific passer]

Let's just trade Vuc, Pat, Coby, and a few firsts for Zion and Herb Jones and call it a day.

[BullChit]

Depending on the pics we give up (hopefully none to minimal) waiting on Zion would be a good tanking tactic right.