The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1

[Djedefre]

Myers is hardly the only competent executive with integrity on this godforsaken planet. Yet we settle for the owner's buddy with zero experience. What could possibly go wrong... Apologetic posts like this are just adding fuel to the fire that's consuming this franchise. Suns are dying before our own eyes. If you want to stick your head in the sand, fine, that is your choice, but spare me the lecture of 'giving chances' to amateurs and bros at so important, essential positions.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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This would honestly be pretty hilarious!

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Frank Lee]

Myers is hardly the only competent executive with integrity on this godforsaken planet. Yet we settle for the owner's buddy with zero experience. What could possibly go wrong... Apologetic posts like this are just adding fuel to the fire that's consuming this franchise. Suns are dying before our own eyes. If you want to stick your head in the sand, fine, that is your choice, but spare me the lecture of 'giving chances' to amateurs and bros at so important, essential positions.

It’s not like first timers have no success. This move is fine until it isn’t. This front office seems like a collective process anyways. Again, it is reality that Wishbia has his fingers on things, regardless what they say.

Suns died last yr anyways.

[Saberestar]

Gambo:

The timeframe for the Suns to hire their next head coach is sometime in the next 2-3 weeks. They will start with a long list (14-15) of candidates then work that down over a couple of rounds to come down with a group of 2-3 finalists.

[bullsaficianado]

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Chris Paul as our next head coach? I can see it now CP3 on the sidelines gets pissed and rips his suit off and goes "oh hell no I am coming in the f**king game". lol.

[bullsaficianado]

Myers is hardly the only competent executive with integrity on this godforsaken planet. Yet we settle for the owner's buddy with zero experience. What could possibly go wrong... Apologetic posts like this are just adding fuel to the fire that's consuming this franchise. Suns are dying before our own eyes. If you want to stick your head in the sand, fine, that is your choice, but spare me the lecture of 'giving chances' to amateurs and bros at so important, essential positions.

i am going to give Ishbia the benefit of the doubt here and give Gregory a chance. Myers was likely to expensive for a GM and they already need to hire a new head coach and the owner is paying for a roster with 3 stars that did not even make the playoffs.

[lilfishi22]

That's obviously a fair argument too. It really goes either way in terms of speculation absent verification. So if that's the case, should the draft picks made be logically removed from the argument because they can't be verified?

How many solid draft picks could you honestly say we've added under his 7 year tenure man? Also considering his self stated archetype for the cerebral, skilled but unathletic shooter/ floor spacing types? Bow many of our draft picks during the last 7 years with him as the GM actually fit his stated profile he targets??

Maybe Cam Johnson and Ty Jerome? Again if equitably giving him credit for those picks by virtue of title position? My point is our draft record over the past 7 years obviously hasn't been good at all. And only really miraculously improved once Ishbia took control of the franchise and began implementing changes. Do you really think that's a coincidence?

The constant over this whole time has been Jones! And the results of us lacking significant young core talent is very evident! Lacking size, athleticism, energy, young high motor hungry players. He's been at the helmet for all of these misses. With only a very few wins in almost a decade.

I'm more inclined to focus on those whiffs because of how passing on those players obviously severely changed our competitive trajectory. And I lean into that more because it absolutely tracks with what he stated himself in that article a few years back.............

https://www.si.com/nba/suns/news/phoenix-suns-james-jones-devin-booker-espn



So there's his clear preference for ready made vet players, while discounting the premise of draft value due to potential misses (navigating land mines comments) as well as the countless misses on obvious talent speak to his overall lack of interest/ investment towards a more favorable outcome.

Sure alot of other teams miss too, but that's their fanbases' obligation to make relevant corresponding assessments/:arguments for/:against their situations just as ours is in regards to Jones (as our GM).

My problems with Jones is his unwillingness to add young cost controlled talent or invest in the draft, and that aversion speaks to our lack of key young talent for years and in interest of vet min options and now we're way behind the curve!

Over his 7 year tenure he's missed on around 80% of the young high end talent that was well within our draft range because of his admitted lack of interest in the draft.

And now some people want to give him credit as if he's actually a keen draft evaluator??
C'mon guys. 1-2 solid hits over 7-8 years isn't a successful model.

So absent of verification then the logical argument is that he should get all the credit and criticism because he's the man in the job

Over his 7 year tenure he's missed on around 80% of the young high end talent that was well within our draft range because of his admitted lack of interest in the draft.

This stat means literally nothing because you've compared it to nothing.

Again, you HAVE to compare the job he's done on the draft with others, preferably in a similar situation (ie no high picks etc), and see how many young higher end talent they have missed to really show whether Jones has done a good job, bad job or just an average job. If you look at other GM's and for example the great GM's hit rates are 40% and the average GM is 20% then he's basically an average GM.

The assessment of his record is only relative to our individual situation though and not others as our situation is contextually independent of other franchise's situations due to situational context with too many obvious variables amongst various teams, it'd be disingenuous to try and make a blanket/ analogous assessment for comparison.

This discussion is focused on James Jones relevance in his position with our individual franchise and how those decisions have affected our competitive outcome and trajectory, etc. Other teams again being contextually unique to their respective situations apart from ours, again would make promoting some premised analogous comparison irrelevant.

Any and all GMs could/ should be equitably rated on their hits and misses as is attributed to their GMs' overall performance during their tenure with their respective franchise. James Jones should be equitably as well.

And for me, as I've pointed out ad nauseam already, Jones overall record ( open to individual interpretations) as it pertains to this discussion of him being a talent evaluator of the draft is well documented/reflected in our overall lack of young, athletic, energizing high end talent and our being far behind the curve with the rest of the league in young promising talent and developmental core talent.

And up until just recently, after Ishbia officially took possession of our franchise and began making rapid adjustments/ spending, we didn't even place any real focus on the draft! Which aligns with his own statements from that article I've shared about how he doesn't value the draft because of the hit/ miss premise and " navigating land mines" metaphor.

This to me substantiates the lack of overall youth and cost controlled talent infusion matching the above prospect criteria I've offered for numerous years with him as GM. Really, what young draft prospects or legitimate developmental players has he added after Johnson and Jerome draft up until just recently when Ishbia got here??

But somehow there are people wanting to credit him with draft/ talent acquisition by simplistic virtue of his position title. Perhaps you obviously could then argue against the validity of his draft misses by the same merit of assigning credit to the actual scouts or other collaborators promoting those picks?

But then if that's the case and this becomes a logical fallacy argument, then this also becomes a pointless subjective opinion discussion. You prefer to give Jones credit for his draft record,

I don't prefer to, due to his own statements of admission that he doesn't value the draft and wouldn't have chosen Booker as an example of the likelihood that he's not invested in/ focused on making those selections himself. And this idea being further substantiated by his overall 7 yr track record and our obvious lack of young core talent as evidence of that position.

And also our overall competitive record and annual roster construction as a result of his direct representation at his position in our franchise. Argument for or againstassigning credit to his being a keen/ astute draft/ talent evaluator??

You've again not addressed what what you're comparing Jones to. You can evaluate how he's done individually but you also have to put that into context of how he's done compared to other GM's.

It's like telling a someone who doesn't watch basketball Steph Curry shoots a 42% career from 3 and then that person telling you 42% must mean he's not very good because it's less than half of the shots he's taken. But compared to the league, that shoots 35-36% on average, he's a great shooter.

[lilfishi22]

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Jrue is too old
Porz might be okay - almost 30

It makes sense whether they win again or not. If they win, that's awesome, makes moving on easier. If they don't win, well....something's gotta change

[lilfishi22]

Nice move, I liked that we retained James Jones.

Great we retained JJ in some capacity (who knows how much pull a senior advisor actually has) but we know virtually nothing about Gregory. We don't know his basketball philosophy, we don't know what he campaigned on to get the job and all we really have to go on is his pretty mid basketball coaching career. Oh and his Michigan connection with Ish, which I count that as a negative

[lilfishi22]

Brian Gregory our new GM?
James Jones demoted?
Josh Bartlestein not fired?

HMMMMMMM

Retained as CEO. I know people don't like JJ but I feel like the last adult just left his position with the Suns with JJ being shafted into a role with no real responsibility or power. Now the new GM and CEO are both Michigan connections of Ishbia.

Like imagine buying a company and wanting to be the best but you only hire from a small, geographically based group of candidates. You're not getting the best and brightest, despite your wallet allowing you to go national or international if you wanted

[lilfishi22]

Myers is hardly the only competent executive with integrity on this godforsaken planet. Yet we settle for the owner's buddy with zero experience. What could possibly go wrong... Apologetic posts like this are just adding fuel to the fire that's consuming this franchise. Suns are dying before our own eyes. If you want to stick your head in the sand, fine, that is your choice, but spare me the lecture of 'giving chances' to amateurs and bros at so important, essential positions.

It’s not like first timers have no success. This move is fine until it isn’t. This front office seems like a collective process anyways. Again, it is reality that Wishbia has his fingers on things, regardless what they say.

Suns died last yr anyways.

Not super happy with the hire but I'll take this viewpoint

[lilfishi22]

Myers is hardly the only competent executive with integrity on this godforsaken planet. Yet we settle for the owner's buddy with zero experience. What could possibly go wrong... Apologetic posts like this are just adding fuel to the fire that's consuming this franchise. Suns are dying before our own eyes. If you want to stick your head in the sand, fine, that is your choice, but spare me the lecture of 'giving chances' to amateurs and bros at so important, essential positions.

i am going to give Ishbia the benefit of the doubt here and give Gregory a chance. Myers was likely to expensive for a GM and they already need to hire a new head coach and the owner is paying for a roster with 3 stars that did not even make the playoffs.

I kinda don't think it was a money thing. I think just mutually, it wasn't the right fit. Ishbia probably wants someone who highly values his input and Myer probably wants to be in a role where he has more freedom and autonomy to make bigger calls without ownership interference.

[TeamTragic]

Brian Gregory our new GM?
James Jones demoted?
Josh Bartlestein not fired?

HMMMMMMM

Retained as CEO. I know people don't like JJ but I feel like the last adult just left his position with the Suns with JJ being shafted into a role with no real responsibility or power. Now the new GM and CEO are both Michigan connections of Ishbia.

Like imagine buying a company and wanting to be the best but you only hire from a small, geographically based group of candidates. You're not getting the best and brightest, despite your wallet allowing you to go national or international if you wanted

Gambo already said there were 5 other potential candidates.

Ishbia is not hiring anyone that doesn't fit the new team identity.

[lilfishi22]

Brian Gregory our new GM?
James Jones demoted?
Josh Bartlestein not fired?

HMMMMMMM

Retained as CEO. I know people don't like JJ but I feel like the last adult just left his position with the Suns with JJ being shafted into a role with no real responsibility or power. Now the new GM and CEO are both Michigan connections of Ishbia.

Like imagine buying a company and wanting to be the best but you only hire from a small, geographically based group of candidates. You're not getting the best and brightest, despite your wallet allowing you to go national or international if you wanted

Gambo already said there were 5 other potential candidates.

Ishbia is not hiring anyone that doesn't fit the new team identity.

Are they token candidates or serious candidates though? Like was Myers one of those token candidates they considered but it was not a serious one. The fact that we brought in Gregory officially last year after being an advisor when Ishbia bought the team tells me that he was already thought of very highly by Ishbia and probably had a significant leg up on the competition having been in the fold already.

I don't want to judge him solely because he's a Michigan connection but it's just not a good look when his resume doesn't really speak for itself

[garrick]

Who is this Benji Gregory guy?

He's a fellow Michigan alum/ buddy of Ishbia that was an assistant coach for Michigan state during Ishbias' time there. He's also been a coach at South Florida, Georgia Tech and Dayton.

It's been reported that he's been a strong voice in our recent draft acquisitions since Ishbia came on board as owner. Ishbia added Grwgory to our front office on June 10th of 2024. Coincidently, right prior to the 24 draft that he was a significant voice in our draft process that saw us land BOTH Oso Ighodaro and Ryan Dunn.

(AI Overview)

Brian Gregory had a significant voice in the drafting process for the Phoenix Suns, particularly in the 2024 draft, where he was instrumental in the selections of Ryan Dunn and Oso Ighodaro. He also has a strong relationship with Suns owner Mat Ishbia, as they both have ties to Michigan State. Gregory has been with the Suns since last June, and is now being promoted to General Manager.

It would have made sense to make him something like the head of player development since he might actually be good at that but being a GM of an NBA team with zero experience does not inspire confidence that he can make good trades or knows how to actually build a decent roster.

I would be more positive if the Suns were assembling young talent but with our lack of picks we are going to be taking our fair share of old vets unless we decide to blow it all up and do a full rebuild.

Just an incredibly Ishbia like move surrounding himself with his Michigan buddies over experienced NBA executives.

[lilfishi22]

Who is this Benji Gregory guy?

He's a fellow Michigan alum/ buddy of Ishbia that was an assistant coach for Michigan state during Ishbias' time there. He's also been a coach at South Florida, Georgia Tech and Dayton.

It's been reported that he's been a strong voice in our recent draft acquisitions since Ishbia came on board as owner. Ishbia added Grwgory to our front office on June 10th of 2024. Coincidently, right prior to the 24 draft that he was a significant voice in our draft process that saw us land BOTH Oso Ighodaro and Ryan Dunn.

(AI Overview)

Brian Gregory had a significant voice in the drafting process for the Phoenix Suns, particularly in the 2024 draft, where he was instrumental in the selections of Ryan Dunn and Oso Ighodaro. He also has a strong relationship with Suns owner Mat Ishbia, as they both have ties to Michigan State. Gregory has been with the Suns since last June, and is now being promoted to General Manager.

It would have made sense to make him something like the head of player development since he might actually be good at that but being a GM of an NBA team with zero experience does not inspire confidence that he can make good trades or knows how to actually build a decent roster.

I would be more positive if the Suns were assembling young talent but with our lack of picks we are going to be taking our fair share of old vets unless we decide to blow it all up and do a full rebuild.

Just an incredibly Ishbia like move surrounding himself with his Michigan buddies over experienced NBA executives.

Totally agree.

[starbosa10]

Not sure who here follows premier league soccer but unfortunately the Ishibia era seems all too familiar to Moshiri at Everton

[Calvin Klein]

It’s been so grim lately that drafting Dunn is seen as some kind of incredible achievement.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Ishbia going to get Draymond Green to coach