The LeBron James All-NBA (2nd) and Luka Doncic - 24-25 Thread

[eminence]

Where I'd rank LeBron from 2019 to 2023
2019: 12
2020: 3
2021: 8
2022: 7
2023: 13

POY Shares for the 12 guys over .5 shares from '19-'24, proxy for time seen as a top 5 guy during Brons time in LA.

1. Jokic 4.11
2. Giannis 2.486
3. Steph 1.292
4. LeBron 1.037
5. Tatum 0.964
6. Embiid 0.924
7. Kawhi 0.859
8. Luka 0.819
9. Harden 0.721
10. Butler 0.682
11. SGA 0.647
12. AD 0.634

[Ainosterhaspie]

LeBron wasn't playing to his current potential in that series. I don't know if it's lingering injuries, if he's just lost his drive to win, if he's become too comfortable with resting on the court, or if he knew this team was so fatally flawed that he couldn't summon the will to play to his best. Whatever the reason, he's not just physically faded, he has mentally too and that may be a bigger problem than the physical side.

Facing elimination. Close game. Little over two minutes to go. Luka misses layup. Three Wolves break. Lakers have just one man back. LeBron is in position at the wing to get ahead of the play and slow it enough to make it a 3 v 3. Instead he watches the miss and rebound. Doesn't anticipate the break, but instead stands watching. Then as the break happens, he only makes a token effort to get back.

Why is his plus minus terrible? Why are his stats good, but his impact is lacking? Plays like that.

I understand it sometimes. He's 40 and leaping to his feet and sprinting back every play isn't feasible. It's a waste of energy for only a slight chance of positive benefit. But when you have plays like that where some effort, and more importantly, quicker reaction to what's about to happen, something that should be instinctual given his experience, can't happen.

There's a clip of bad Luka defense on another thread where LeBron was in postition to help Luka and cut off the drving angle with just one step, and he could have done so without compromising his man assignment, and he just watched Luka get cooked without even a token effort to give help. Another case where slight effort could make a difference and he just watched.

I think the "no defense" chorus has wildly exaggerated the problem for years. It often fails to take into account needed energy conservation and team scheme and assignments. But despite that, it is a real problem and I think bad habits by LeBron, habits that were to some degree justified, have become a real detriment.

His physical tools have not declined as badly as it looks like they have. Cracks on the mental side are making things much worse than they have to be.

[trickshot]

People need to be realistic about improving when you're already this close to the second apron. In a way this was or will be the last dance for this version of the core. Unrealistic to keep the core but replace Hayes with a double double guy when owners are trading entire franchise players to dodge the new tax. Right now any long term changes must project to be sustainable beyond the next 1-2 years or ownership won't want to commit. Lebron and at least one other player would have to take the harshest paycut ever to afford rebounders, point of attack defenders and depth that's not straight from the Gleague.

[TroubleS0me]

Watch on YouTube

[nzahir]

Zach Lowe brought up a point about DFS...he's gonna have a lot of leverage in negotiating a deal this summer with LA as they really cant lose him. He might be able to get himself a 4/80 Caruso type deal, and with Reaves/Luka's next contract, thats gonna put the Lakers at the cap threshold with three guys (only 1 being a star), even without Lebron

I dont think hes worth that. But we would have to pay it if necessary

I hope Bron takes a massive paycut

Let us use the full mle and have room for other guys

[nzahir]

The roster construction questions for the Lakers are gonna be very interesting. The idea of Luka taking a huge offensive load to allow LeBron to play more of a secondary role on that end and lock in on defense is compelling, but what does the rest of the roster need to look like? Has Reaves maxed out or is there room for him to grow?

I think Reaves can still improve, can become a more consistent catch and shoot guy

Has some really weird stretches of being a bad shooter to a solid one

I think us playing small just taxed us too much

I want athletes and size around Luka, Bron, and AR (if hes still here)

[DorianRo]

offensively isn't the main lakes problem. (Though Lebron/Luka shouldn't be in the game together all the time cause they cancel each other out) They need size and defensive horses. Until they unload Lebron's stupid overpaid contract, they won't get that. So they're stuck with an aging 41 year old whos getting 50M (And probably will suffer a career ender eventually, its gotta be coming with his mileage), Fat Luka at 50M who won't get in shape, and also gets injured all the time and plays no D and Reaves who is unathletic and plays no D.

Lakers won't contenders probably until they realize this experiment.. Probably even with Luka it won't work unless dedicates himself to the game, which he obviously hasn't.

Not to mention Reddick is an idiot.. So they also have a coaching problem. They would probably just blowing it all up (Coach, players everything), then retrying that losing formula for another season)

Try dealing Lebron off to Milwaukee for Giannis and multiple draft picks? I don't know. But the Luka/Lebron experiment will NOT work and will NEVER work

[zimpy27]

LeBron has only won 2 playoff series in the last 5 seasons. That's how you know it ended with the Hill injury and Westbrook debacle.

Prior to this 5 year stretch he'd never had any other 2 year stretch without 2 playoff series wins since he first got in to the playoffs.

[penbeast0]

LeBron and Luka are terrific players but it's nice to see Rudy Gobert playing the small ball Lakers centers off the court after so many years of "you can't play him in the playoffs." You just can't play DFS and Vanderbilt in a playoff at center, they will be hunted and abused all night by a real big man.

[zimpy27]

Give me Goga and Isaac for Rui and Knecht

[EmpireFalls]

LeBron and Luka are terrific players but it's nice to see Rudy Gobert playing the small ball Lakers centers off the court after so many years of "you can't play him in the playoffs." You just can't play DFS and Vanderbilt in a playoff at center, they will be hunted and abused all night by a real big man.

In hindsight I think it was just a mix of frenetic energy defense and supreme trolling by Rudy that kept the games close in Minnesota. They were really flying around those two games and last night they played like a team who didn’t fully believe. Also partly an adjustment by Minnesota and Ant tbf.

If watching the GOATs taught me anything it’s that you have to be truly ruthless punishing weaknesses, and Minny is not yet there consistently.

Still I came away with the impression that Rudy could’ve done that any game he wanted. LeBron was their only actual effective low man and rim protector all series and we all know that’s only in bursts (and his boxing out and rebounding is a legitimate liability for a rim presence). Minnesota played about a C series for their standards, they should’ve been living in the paint all the time. Randle was the only guy who realized it outside of Edwards in Game 4.

[nzahir]

Give me Goga and Isaac for Rui and Knecht

So Vando and Issac....na

Rui was solid this series, its not his fault he's having go guard Gobert/Randle and no C to help

Goga is a solid C, but not a bouncy big. He can catch lobs, but not his game

I don't think moving Reaves is the right choice, for now at least, but would you guys be interested in a Reaves+Gabe/Vando/Maxi for Suggs swap?

[nzahir]

Lebron got outplayed by Julius Randle. He's clearly not a 5-10 player

Did he, though?

I mean, sure. Lebron isn't a top-5 player anymore. And probably more like top-15 overall at this point. But I don't think Randle outplayed him at all. Maybe in the final game, when he was gassed from trying to be the defensive anchor at 40, but in the series as a whole, definitely not.

Randle got to feast since we had no rim protection basically and played small

I actually think it may make sense for Bron to play more at the 3 than the 4 now

Bully smaller guys

Maybe lose a little bt of weight and lean out

But our roster construction isn't ideal at the moment

Luka, AR, Bron, DFS/Rui, C

At least we have some size, but foot speed of Luka and Bron+physically weak AR isn't ideal for your 1-3

Rui has potential, but so up and down. DFS is a fine swiss army knife defender and gives effort, but a poor rebounder. But if we got a C next to these guys, I like it

The issue is nobody can guard shifty guys really in that lineup.....leads me to think maybe AR needs to come off the bench?

Can we get NaW with full MLE? Or will Miny overpay?

Lebron massive paycut
Sign NaW
Kleber+Vando+Gabe+ 1st for Ayton or 2 of them+1st for Claxton

Luka, NaW, Bron, Rui, Ayton/Claxton
1 of Vando or Gabe, Reaves, Knecht, DFS, Hayes/replacement C?

I would likely look to move Knecht too if possible for a 2 way guy

Bigger nets paxckage is Claxton+CamJ (45m) for 2 of Vando/Gabe/Maxi, Knecht, Rui, Milton, and a 1st

But I kind of want Bron next to a big 3/4, who can ideally rebound and shoot the 3

[trickshot]

Give me Goga and Isaac for Rui and Knecht

So Vando and Issac....na

Rui was solid this series, its not his fault he's having go guard Gobert/Randle and no C to help

Goga is a solid C, but not a bouncy big. He can catch lobs, but not his game

I don't think moving Reaves is the right choice, for now at least, but would you guys be interested in a Reaves+Gabe/Vando/Maxi for Suggs swap?

Just my 2 cents. After the last 2 games Rui deserves to stay but the league now has a hard cap of sorts and when you run all the projection scenarios that has this team land a starter quality center, you're going to keep coming back to his 18 million and that upcoming 26 extension. Rotation wise a center would drop his role to the point where you have to consider using him as a chip. If not you'd be paying 18m to a backup 4/5 when you barely have any worthwhile assets to trade for a point of attack defender, wings or depth. With Reaves trading him is entirely dependent on the right player because it puts you right back at square one looking for a 3rd ballhandler whereas Rui's absence can be softened by Lebron ,DFS and the new 5.

If Rob is determined to keep everyone for last run he might have to meet Ainge's ridiculous price and go for a Kessler type who's on a rookie deal and won't shake up the salary structure for at least a year. Really Rob should have tried for a Nick Richards before it came to this but was waiting on Hayes and Wood to get healthy. One could even say that one decision was where the season ended.

[zimpy27]

Give me Goga and Isaac for Rui and Knecht

So Vando and Issac....na

Rui was solid this series, its not his fault he's having go guard Gobert/Randle and no C to help

Goga is a solid C, but not a bouncy big. He can catch lobs, but not his game

I don't think moving Reaves is the right choice, for now at least, but would you guys be interested in a Reaves+Gabe/Vando/Maxi for Suggs swap?

What's wrong with Vando and Isaac?

[PistolPeteJR]

His entire Lakers career with the exception of the 2020 postseason where he got over 4 months of rest to recuperate his body before the playoffs, he's been a shell of his prime self. The decline was in full effect starting in 2018-19 but people refused to see it. The general statistical inflation helped his case. People saw similar numbers and assumed a similar level of play but his impact fell off dramatically.

The weirdest thing you see on forums like this is people calling him a top 5 player but then refusing to hold him to that standard.

Declined, yes. A shell of himself? Pump the brakes.

The guy just put up 25.4ppg on 60.1 TS%, 9.0rpg, 5.6apg, 2.0spg, 1.8bpg and only 2.6tpg against a Wolves team that ranked 5th in dRTG this season and even better the second half of the season, while playing a ton of minutes at center and being the best defender on the team in the 5 games, and doing so on a team that doesn't fit together at all and haven't developed much chemistry due to the massive in-season trade.

This is a lazy take and shouldn't see the light of day whatsoever.

[Djoker]

His entire Lakers career with the exception of the 2020 postseason where he got over 4 months of rest to recuperate his body before the playoffs, he's been a shell of his prime self. The decline was in full effect starting in 2018-19 but people refused to see it. The general statistical inflation helped his case. People saw similar numbers and assumed a similar level of play but his impact fell off dramatically.

The weirdest thing you see on forums like this is people calling him a top 5 player but then refusing to hold him to that standard.

Declined, yes. A shell of himself? Pump the brakes.

The guy just put up 25.4ppg on 60.1 TS%, 9.0rpg, 5.6apg, 2.0spg, 1.8bpg and only 2.6tpg against a Wolves team that ranked 5th in dRTG this season and even better the second half of the season, while playing a ton of minutes at center and being the best defender on the team in the 5 games, and doing so on a team that doesn't fit together at all and haven't developed much chemistry due to the massive in-season trade.

This is a lazy take and shouldn't see the light of day whatsoever.

I think you're taking an exception with the phrase "shell of himself". My point was that he has clearly declined.

[tone wone]

What?!?
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44968991/lakers-lebron-james-suffered-mcl-sprain-game-5

[thebigbird]

Man this would be so awesome. I’ve hated the Lakers move since the very beginning. Neither the fanbase nor the owner/front office deserved LeBron. He should go somewhere else that he’ll be appreciate and put in a better position to win.

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=LoczziaTWuqlhvyvHGT92A

[jalengreen]

What?!?
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44968991/lakers-lebron-james-suffered-mcl-sprain-game-5

Makes sense, he was completely dreadful in that stint he came back in. Did not look right at all.