2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10

[VaDe255]

I'm not a big Herro supporter. I'm tired of watching a mid player dominate the ball and the shots every damn season.

I want him off this team. I couldn't care less about salary. I want this POS gone.

He’s definitely not “mid”, he had the 12th best offensive EPM this year, which puts him right in the mix with some of the top offensive guards in the league. Considering he was the primary offensive option, played a ton of minutes/games and was consistently drawing heavy defensive attention, that level of production is impressive. He’s shown steady improvement and if that trend continues, he’s on a very promising trajectory.

As for the defense criticism, it’s common for high usage offensive guards to struggle on that end. Players like Curry, Haliburton, Garland, Brunson, LaMelo, Lillard, and even Booker aren’t exactly known for elite defense. That’s where team defensive schemes and personnel become critical. Smaller guards will always have limitations defensively, but it doesn’t negate their overall impact.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Been going through some trade machinations and scenarios that can bring Durant here at a reasonable price and looking at the numbers it seems like Duncan Robinson's ETO contract could be the key into all this. Suns seem hell bent in trying to get out of the tax and Duncan's 10 millon ETO along with Cody Martin 8.6 non guaranteed and Micic 8.1 club option all equal to them getting clean out of the tax. Very interesting sub plot here. Duncan's ETO could essentially be worth more to them this year then a 1st rd pick. They currently can't aggregate players at the moment in trade but after they complete this deal they can move on from getting more dead weight off there books like Grayson Allen and Royce O'neill. Currently as it stands the only legal trade without a third team that can take place with the Suns looks like this

Miami deals

Duncan Robinson (10 million cap savings ETO)
Nikola Jovic
Pelle Larrson
Andrew Wiggins

54.5 million total

for

Kevin Durant 54.7


* Keep in mind that the Suns currently can't take a dollar more over Kevin Durant's salary and can't currently aggregate players in trade. This deal meets the threshold. Other deals start breaching over and are not legal. In terms of draft pick compensation it will have to be this year's 20th pick and the the Suns are most likely going to ask for an unprotected pick in 2031 to fill the void left by there trade with the Utah Jazz. If will also give them more trade flexibility to possibly dump Beal. As for us when the dust settles we will still have the expiring of Terry Rozier, Kyle Anderson, and Jaime Jaquez as the young attachment carrot. Will have 9.6 million under the cap and no worries of having to slide in a 1st rd pick salary onto the books. Where it gets tricky is trying to resign Davion Mitchell. It's possible we could a swing a deal that sends Rozier along with Jaime Jaquez to the Wiz for Marcus Smart that saves close to 8.9 million. That then essentially frees up the books to resign Mitchell and free up the cap to sign vets to fill out the roster. A similar deal could also be offered to the Jazz for John Collins to fill the void left by Niko but that deal gives us only 4 million in savings.

[batterybro42]

I would go LeBron hunting 1 more time for old times sake. With the Celtics getting weaker next year East might wide open, I expect changes in Cleveland as well

[RexBoyWonder]

Jalen Brunson $24,960,001 $34,944,001 $37,739,521 $40,535,041 $43,330,561
Tyler Herro $29,000,000 $31,000,000 $33,000,000

I'd give him smth. close to 40m, that is where Brunson will be and I think Herro isn't too far off from Brunson.
At the end of the day you want him to be on a contract, which can be moved. Not be an albatross like LaVine or Beal nobody wants.

if you think Herro runs an offense at the level Brunson does - You haven't been watching them.

Brunson in on a different tier.

[MettaWorldPanda]

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[Kobewade11]

I'm not a big Herro supporter. I'm tired of watching a mid player dominate the ball and the shots every damn season.

I want him off this team. I couldn't care less about salary. I want this POS gone.

Damn why does he have to be all that

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Jalen Brunson $24,960,001 $34,944,001 $37,739,521 $40,535,041 $43,330,561
Tyler Herro $29,000,000 $31,000,000 $33,000,000

I'd give him smth. close to 40m, that is where Brunson will be and I think Herro isn't too far off from Brunson.
At the end of the day you want him to be on a contract, which can be moved. Not be an albatross like LaVine or Beal nobody wants.

if you think Herro runs an offense at the level Brunson does - You haven't been watching them.

Brunson in on a different tier.

Far better lol come on VaDe.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

Houston has the better offer but for some reason I just feel like he’s ending up on the Spurs. Unless OKC wants him which idk why they wouldn’t. League already rigged the lottery to get them Wemby with his ties from France and Tony Parker, now they want him contending as soon as possible

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Been going through some trade machinations and scenarios that can bring Durant here at a reasonable price and looking at the numbers it seems like Duncan Robinson's ETO contract could be the key into all this. Suns seem hell bent in trying to get out of the tax and Duncan's 10 millon ETO along with Cody Martin 8.6 non guaranteed and Micic 8.1 club option all equal to them getting clean out of the tax. Very interesting sub plot here. Duncan's ETO could essentially be worth more to them this year then a 1st rd pick. They currently can' aggregate players at the moment in trade but after they complete this deal they can move on from getting more dead weight off there books like Grayson Allen and Royce O'neill. Currently as it stands the only legal trade without a third team that can take place with the Suns looks like this

Miami deals

Duncan Robinson (10 million cap savings ETO)
Nikola Jovic
Pelle Larrson
Andrew Wiggins

54.5 million total

for

Kevin Durant 54.7


* Keep in mind that the Suns currently can't take a dollar more over Kevin Durant's salary and can't currently aggregate players in trade. This deal meets the threshold. Other deals start breaching over and are not legal. In terms of draft pick compensation it will have to be this year's 20th pick and the the Suns are most likely going to ask for an unprotected pick in 2031 to fill the void left by there trade with the Utah Jazz. If will also give them more trade flexibility to possibly dump Beal. As for us when the dust settles we will still have the expiring of Terry Rozier, Kyle Anderson, and Jaime Jaquez as the young attachment carrot. Will have 9.6 million under the cap and no worries of having to slide in a 1st rd pick salary onto the books. Where is gets tricky is trying to resign Davion Mitchell. It's possible we could a swing a deal that sends Rozier along with Jaime Jaquez to the Wiz for Marcus Smart that saves close to 8.9 million. That then essentially frees up the books to resign Mitchell and free up the cap to sign vets to fill out the roster. A similar deal could also be offered to the Jazz for John Collins to fill the void left by Niko but that deal gives us only 4 million in savings.

Everyones turning their heads to giannis Ja and Zion (hell we might be too) but KD is right there for the taking

[VaDe255]

Jalen Brunson $24,960,001 $34,944,001 $37,739,521 $40,535,041 $43,330,561
Tyler Herro $29,000,000 $31,000,000 $33,000,000

I'd give him smth. close to 40m, that is where Brunson will be and I think Herro isn't too far off from Brunson.
At the end of the day you want him to be on a contract, which can be moved. Not be an albatross like LaVine or Beal nobody wants.

if you think Herro runs an offense at the level Brunson does - You haven't been watching them.

Brunson in on a different tier.

I agree Brunson is a tier above Tyler right now, when you compare them at the same age:



At age 25:
Brunson: 32 MPG / 16 PPG / 3.9 REB / 4.8 AST
Tyler: 35 MPG / 24 PPG / 5.2 REB / 5.5 AST

Tyler’s production is clearly ahead at the same stage, and while I’m not saying he’ll reach Brunson’s peak, there’s definitely room for him to grow. He’s a known hard worker who improves every offseason, refining his skills, physique, and technique. There's also room for growth in his decision making and BBIQ, which naturally develops with experience.

I know the fanbase is split on Tyler, but I still believe he can be better. Not the best player on a championship team but 2nd/3rd best is absolutely possible.

[Vertical Limit]

I'm not a big Herro supporter. I'm tired of watching a mid player dominate the ball and the shots every damn season.

I want him off this team. I couldn't care less about salary. I want this POS gone.

He’s definitely not “mid”, he had the 12th best offensive EPM this year, which puts him right in the mix with some of the top offensive guards in the league. Considering he was the primary offensive option, played a ton of minutes/games and was consistently drawing heavy defensive attention, that level of production is impressive. He’s shown steady improvement and if that trend continues, he’s on a very promising trajectory.

As for the defense criticism, it’s common for high usage offensive guards to struggle on that end. Players like Curry, Haliburton, Garland, Brunson, LaMelo, Lillard, and even Booker aren’t exactly known for elite defense. That’s where team defensive schemes and personnel become critical. Smaller guards will always have limitations defensively, but it doesn’t negate their overall impact.

Yawn at the analytics. Hopefully morey in philly is into analytics and he takes Herro off our hands. They got some expirings they can give us.

I dont care about analytics. Im using my eyes. The guy is a very limited offensive player with average athletic ability and poor ball handling skills. Every single time the cavs extended their hand, it was another Herro turnover.

4 total points after trying to sound “hard” after the post game 3 conference. He can get the **** out of here for all i care.

[greg4012]

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Houston has the better offer but for some reason I just feel like he’s ending up on the Spurs. Unless OKC wants him which idk why they wouldn’t. League already rigged the lottery to get them Wemby with his ties from France and Tony Parker, now they want him contending as soon as possible

OKC would undoubtedly be scary adding Giannis to the mix. But, it would result in some of the same clunky overlap issues you saw between Giannis and Dame. Giannis and SGA are both top 5 in the NBA in usage and thrive in being high usage on-ball players. SGA has less off-ball shooting than Lillard (while obviously being a superior player).

No doubt they could make it work and be monstrous, but worth considering.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Bam can still take another scoring leap if we get him a playmaker to help get him the ball in his spots and in a rhythm, especially with the added 3 ball which will continue to improve and also probably prolong his longevity. I don’t think that’s what Spo wants though, it’s unfortunate because I’d love to see it but it is what it is. He’s the best player in the world on 1 side of the ball and a threat to give you 20-10-5 give or take a night, he’s elite regardless.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

Houston has the better offer but for some reason I just feel like he’s ending up on the Spurs. Unless OKC wants him which idk why they wouldn’t. League already rigged the lottery to get them Wemby with his ties from France and Tony Parker, now they want him contending as soon as possible

OKC would undoubtedly be scary adding Giannis to the mix. But, it would result in some of the same clunky overlap issues you saw between Giannis and Dame. Giannis and SGA are both top 5 in the NBA in usage and thrive in being high usage on-ball players. SGA has less off-ball shooting than Lillard (while obviously being a superior player).

No doubt they could make it work and be monstrous, but worth considering.

Yea I guess my only thing is, they’ve been accumulating all these assets all this time, when are they finally going to use them lol? This seems like an opportunity but it would fit A LOT better if Giannis could shoot 3s.

I think they get really aggressive if they don’t win it all this year

[MettaWorldPanda]

Been going through some trade machinations and scenarios that can bring Durant here at a reasonable price and looking at the numbers it seems like Duncan Robinson's ETO contract could be the key into all this. Suns seem hell bent in trying to get out of the tax and Duncan's 10 millon ETO along with Cody Martin 8.6 non guaranteed and Micic 8.1 club option all equal to them getting clean out of the tax. Very interesting sub plot here. Duncan's ETO could essentially be worth more to them this year then a 1st rd pick. They currently can' aggregate players at the moment in trade but after they complete this deal they can move on from getting more dead weight off there books like Grayson Allen and Royce O'neill. Currently as it stands the only legal trade without a third team that can take place with the Suns looks like this

Miami deals

Duncan Robinson (10 million cap savings ETO)
Nikola Jovic
Pelle Larrson
Andrew Wiggins

54.5 million total

for

Kevin Durant 54.7


* Keep in mind that the Suns currently can't take a dollar more over Kevin Durant's salary and can't currently aggregate players in trade. This deal meets the threshold. Other deals start breaching over and are not legal. In terms of draft pick compensation it will have to be this year's 20th pick and the the Suns are most likely going to ask for an unprotected pick in 2031 to fill the void left by there trade with the Utah Jazz. If will also give them more trade flexibility to possibly dump Beal. As for us when the dust settles we will still have the expiring of Terry Rozier, Kyle Anderson, and Jaime Jaquez as the young attachment carrot. Will have 9.6 million under the cap and no worries of having to slide in a 1st rd pick salary onto the books. Where is gets tricky is trying to resign Davion Mitchell. It's possible we could a swing a deal that sends Rozier along with Jaime Jaquez to the Wiz for Marcus Smart that saves close to 8.9 million. That then essentially frees up the books to resign Mitchell and free up the cap to sign vets to fill out the roster. A similar deal could also be offered to the Jazz for John Collins to fill the void left by Niko but that deal gives us only 4 million in savings.

Everyones turning their heads to giannis Ja and Zion (hell we might be too) but KD is right there for the taking

Durant really does feel like a layup this offseason. A deal is really not easy to make with the Suns due to the aggregate rules in play and having to match Durant's deal or have the means in taking in more and sending out less money in return but we have all the pieces in play to make it happen. I think Houston will look elsewhere instead of dealing with the Suns and hoping for there potential downfall as they hold there picks hostage instead of bailing them out and taking Durant. Houston has the means to go after much more younger options as do the Spurs that fit there core's timeline.

[VaDe255]

He can still take another scoring leap if we get him a playmaker to help get him the ball in his spots and in a rhythm, especially with the added 3 ball which will continue to improve and also probably prolong his longevity. I don’t think that’s what Spo wants though, it’s unfortunate because I’d love to see it but it is what it is. He’s the best player in the world on 1 side of the ball and a threat to give you 20-10-5 give or take a night, he’s elite regardless.

Those stats are from after Jimmy was traded. At one point, Tyler was averaging over 7+ assists when they leaned on him more as an on-ball creator. He finished the season with 5.8 assists and 2.6 turnovers per game, even with Mitchell taking on more of the ball handling late in the year.

While there’s room for him to improve off the ball, the next big step in his evolution is improving as an on ball creator. Tightening his handle and improving as a playmaker will be key. He’s already drawing heavy defensive attention, even off the ball, teams are face guarding him if there’s no other major offensive threat on the floor.

That tells you he’s already shifting defenses and with better ball security and decision making, he can start turning that attention into consistent team wide advantages. Given his work ethic and year over year growth, this progression feels like a natural and realistic next phase in his development.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

He can still take another scoring leap if we get him a playmaker to help get him the ball in his spots and in a rhythm, especially with the added 3 ball which will continue to improve and also probably prolong his longevity. I don’t think that’s what Spo wants though, it’s unfortunate because I’d love to see it but it is what it is. He’s the best player in the world on 1 side of the ball and a threat to give you 20-10-5 give or take a night, he’s elite regardless.

Those stats are from after Jimmy was traded. At one point, Tyler was averaging over 7+ assists when they leaned on him more as an on-ball creator. He finished the season with 5.8 assists and 2.6 turnovers per game, even with Mitchell taking on more of the ball handling late in the year.

While there’s room for him to improve off the ball, the next big step in his evolution is improving as an on ball creator. Tightening his handle and improving as a playmaker will be key. He’s already drawing heavy defensive attention, even off the ball, teams are face guarding him if there’s no other major offensive threat on the floor.

That tells you he’s already shifting defenses and with better ball security and decision making, he can start turning that attention into consistent team wide advantages. Given his work ethic and year over year growth, this progression feels like a natural and realistic next phase in his development.

I was speaking in Edrice but yes if Tyler can take another leap, wherever that may be, I’m all for it if he’s doing it in a Heat jersey

[wadenation305]

Herro is definitely not the number one option as of today. That may change. Maybe it does not. I suspect he's pretty much at his peak, with the improvements being more consistency and limiting mistakes, which will, in turn, make him better. But the number one thing is putting someone next to him who allows him to be the SG and not forcing him to be the PG. And the team as a whole would benefit from having a true number 1 option where defenses can't triple team Herro at all times.

Bam also needs to be more confident and decisive on the offensive end. He brings us a lot on defense, but at 50 Mil, we need him on offense as well. It frustrated me to no end every time I saw him wide open, everyone covered, and he would just hold the ball for 6 seconds desperately trying to find someone to pass to instead of just letting it fly or bullying a smaller player. His not having that confidence in himself messes him up just as bad as the league's best defender covering you.

In all honesty, we do not have the assets to acquire a true number one option without completely giving up all our limited assets, which then leaves us with a number one option and no team, and no other way of improving except through free agency. No one on this team is currently good enough to be a number one option. Before Jimmy forced his way here because of Wade, we were a treadmilling team, giving out money to bums that would require us to expend more assets to get rid of, and some people are already sipping on the solo cup drinking the Kool-Aid of the FO "We're not that far off, with just a little more internal improvement, we're right back in this thing" That's exactly what we were doing during the Dion years and we all hated it, but somehow, some people want to do it again. Just blow it up.

The Spurs, OKCs of the world, they control the trade market for the foreseeable future. And when they finally blow their wad, the people that they traded those picks to now control the trade market. Until that build-up of picks gets used, whoever holds it can get in any trade they want. We do not have the assets to compete with anyone in the trade market for a true alpha.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I would go LeBron hunting 1 more time for old times sake. With the Celtics getting weaker next year East might wide open, I expect changes in Cleveland as well

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Here’s this to brighten your day

[3ammy3uck3ts]

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Hate that for Pop, he was about to to be competing for championships again