The LeBron James All-NBA (2nd) and Luka Doncic - 24-25 Thread

[trickshot]

Man this would be so awesome. I’ve hated the Lakers move since the very beginning. Neither the fanbase nor the owner/front office deserved LeBron. He should go somewhere else that he’ll be appreciate and put in a better position to win.

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Lebron has to be realistic. No contender is gutting their roster for 2 years of pre-retirement Lebron. That's partly why the Luka trade was so bad. It's not like before where you could just add a star contributor to a complete roster. Now you actually have to give up starters, rotation guys just to avoid the 2nd apron.

[mademan]

Hard to find a team that can take on Lebron's salary and send out enough for the Lakers to accept while also staying a title contender. Warriors would be the option, but they already got Butler. Maybe Dallas with PJ/Klay/Gafford, but that seems light, and Dallas really isnt in a position to pay significantly more if they wanna be a contender. Hard to see who else. Maybe Knicks for OG+, but they dont have a lot of assets to close the value gap.

[Ian Scuffling]

Isn't this Lebron's option year coming up? What does it mean if he opts out? Would he be a FA, the following season? If yes, then I don't see any team sending much of any value to the Lakers even for a 41 year old James. He'd have to wait the following season and be a FA. Goodbye tour back in Cleveland? As a Cleveland fan, I'd take him back. He, obviously, still has a lot of value.

[thebigbird]

Man this would be so awesome. I’ve hated the Lakers move since the very beginning. Neither the fanbase nor the owner/front office deserved LeBron. He should go somewhere else that he’ll be appreciate and put in a better position to win.

Read on Twitter

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Lebron has to be realistic. No contender is gutting their roster for 2 years of pre-retirement Lebron. That's partly why the Luka trade was so bad. It's not like before where you could just add a star contributor to a complete roster. Now you actually have to give up starters, rotation guys just to avoid the 2nd apron.

He can just opt out and sign somewhere else.

[PistolPeteJR]

His entire Lakers career with the exception of the 2020 postseason where he got over 4 months of rest to recuperate his body before the playoffs, he's been a shell of his prime self. The decline was in full effect starting in 2018-19 but people refused to see it. The general statistical inflation helped his case. People saw similar numbers and assumed a similar level of play but his impact fell off dramatically.

The weirdest thing you see on forums like this is people calling him a top 5 player but then refusing to hold him to that standard.

Declined, yes. A shell of himself? Pump the brakes.

The guy just put up 25.4ppg on 60.1 TS%, 9.0rpg, 5.6apg, 2.0spg, 1.8bpg and only 2.6tpg against a Wolves team that ranked 5th in dRTG this season and even better the second half of the season, while playing a ton of minutes at center and being the best defender on the team in the 5 games, and doing so on a team that doesn't fit together at all and haven't developed much chemistry due to the massive in-season trade.

This is a lazy take and shouldn't see the light of day whatsoever.

I think you're taking an exception with the phrase "shell of himself". My point was that he has clearly declined.

Please provide concrete evidence denoting that the vast majority is in disagreement as it pertains to his having declined since 2018-2019, seeing how that is your argument.

[mademan]

Man this would be so awesome. I’ve hated the Lakers move since the very beginning. Neither the fanbase nor the owner/front office deserved LeBron. He should go somewhere else that he’ll be appreciate and put in a better position to win.

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=LoczziaTWuqlhvyvHGT92A

Lebron has to be realistic. No contender is gutting their roster for 2 years of pre-retirement Lebron. That's partly why the Luka trade was so bad. It's not like before where you could just add a star contributor to a complete roster. Now you actually have to give up starters, rotation guys just to avoid the 2nd apron.

He can just opt out and sign somewhere else.

Not if he wants to continue making 50mill to play basketball. He might be willing to take a paycut, but no a 25mill+ paycut

[jalengreen]

He’s retiring a Laker fellas

[Slava]

He’s retiring a Laker fellas

I think that’s 75% chance. A 20% chance he goes back to Cleveland if they lose in the conference finals this season and film his last dance season there. A 5% chance he takes to Dallas and goes for a title with Kyrie and Davis.

[OldSchoolNoBull]

I rarely venture into this thread. But just wanted to say Cleveland is the obvious play if he cares more about a potential fairytale ending than about money. The dude is already a billionaire. All he has to do is decline the PO this summer and take the minimum with Cleveland(which is about all they can afford given their apron situation). He can slide into the SF spot for a year. Allen/Mobley/LBJ/Mitchell/Garland w/Hunter and Strus off the bench. He could go out with a farewell tour and a ring at home. Then call it a career.

I imagine Cleveland would take it as it wouldn't cost them any part of their future and a farewell tour based in Cleveland would make them money.

The downside(other than money) is that it would play into every criticism of him being a frontrunner who only goes to loaded teams, and also he'd have to leave Bronny in LA.

[Slava]

Cleveland can have Bronny for Garland.

[Ian Scuffling]

I rarely venture into this thread. But just wanted to say Cleveland is the obvious play if he cares more about a potential fairytale ending than about money. The dude is already a billionaire. All he has to do is decline the PO this summer and take the minimum with Cleveland(which is about all they can afford given their apron situation). He can slide into the SF spot for a year. Allen/Mobley/LBJ/Mitchell/Garland w/Hunter and Strus off the bench. He could go out with a farewell tour and a ring at home. Then call it a career.

I imagine Cleveland would take it as it wouldn't cost them any part of their future and a farewell tour based in Cleveland would make them money.

The downside(other than money) is that it would play into every criticism of him being a frontrunner who only goes to loaded teams, and also he'd have to leave Bronny in LA.

My thoughts, too. Not only is it his best chance for a 5th championship, but it creates a cool kind of closure, as well. We'll see if he values winning at all, I guess. Because the truth is, he ain't winning anything with this Lakers team. The front office has seen to that. As far as the front running thing goes, sure to the idiots who already hate him, it will seem like that. But, they really don't matter.

[mademan]

I rarely venture into this thread. But just wanted to say Cleveland is the obvious play if he cares more about a potential fairytale ending than about money. The dude is already a billionaire. All he has to do is decline the PO this summer and take the minimum with Cleveland(which is about all they can afford given their apron situation). He can slide into the SF spot for a year. Allen/Mobley/LBJ/Mitchell/Garland w/Hunter and Strus off the bench. He could go out with a farewell tour and a ring at home. Then call it a career.

I imagine Cleveland would take it as it wouldn't cost them any part of their future and a farewell tour based in Cleveland would make them money.

The downside(other than money) is that it would play into every criticism of him being a frontrunner who only goes to loaded teams, and also he'd have to leave Bronny in LA.

Dude's 40. If he announces before the season that its his last year and retiring, only crazy people would get on him for"ring chasing".

That said, i'd still be very surprised to see him give up 50+ mill for a homecoming. Ya he's a billionaire, but 50 mill is 50 mill.

[AEnigma]

I rarely venture into this thread. But just wanted to say Cleveland is the obvious play if he cares more about a potential fairytale ending than about money. The dude is already a billionaire. All he has to do is decline the PO this summer and take the minimum with Cleveland(which is about all they can afford given their apron situation). He can slide into the SF spot for a year. Allen/Mobley/LBJ/Mitchell/Garland w/Hunter and Strus off the bench. He could go out with a farewell tour and a ring at home. Then call it a career.

I imagine Cleveland would take it as it wouldn't cost them any part of their future and a farewell tour based in Cleveland would make them money.

The downside(other than money) is that it would play into every criticism of him being a frontrunner who only goes to loaded teams, and also he'd have to leave Bronny in LA.

Most careers end in uninspiring fashion. The Cleveland move should have come last year or maybe even two years ago. I am not sure whether it is worse to join a legitimate 60-win team than to be another first round exit on the Lakers, but I refuse to believe that after last season he was somehow operating under the belief that the team could compete for a title, so if it were not a consideration then, I do not see why it would be now (bored with Bronny already? ).

[Djoker]

Actually, going into these playoffs, a large majority was operating under the belief that this Lakers team is a contender and at least a WCF shoe-in (4th in title odds overall, 2nd in the West) but after the loss to the Wolves, there are all these excu... erm explanations highlighting all the roster inadequacies. Whether Lebron himself believes the Lakers could win it all is impossible to determine...

[Djoker]

Declined, yes. A shell of himself? Pump the brakes.

The guy just put up 25.4ppg on 60.1 TS%, 9.0rpg, 5.6apg, 2.0spg, 1.8bpg and only 2.6tpg against a Wolves team that ranked 5th in dRTG this season and even better the second half of the season, while playing a ton of minutes at center and being the best defender on the team in the 5 games, and doing so on a team that doesn't fit together at all and haven't developed much chemistry due to the massive in-season trade.

This is a lazy take and shouldn't see the light of day whatsoever.

I think you're taking an exception with the phrase "shell of himself". My point was that he has clearly declined.

Please provide concrete evidence denoting that the vast majority is in disagreement as it pertains to his having declined since 2018-2019, seeing how that is your argument.

I've listed the metrics... basic box score, raw plus minus, RAPM (from many different sources), LEBRON, DARKO, RAPTOR, MAMBA etc. They all show Lebron on a clear decline from 2018-19 onwards (with the 2020 playoffs being the exception). And the eye test seeing him mail it on defense, looking tired in the 4th quarters etc. These occurrences have become more and more common. And all the injuries of course. It comes with age.

[AEnigma]

I think you're taking an exception with the phrase "shell of himself". My point was that he has clearly declined.

Please provide concrete evidence denoting that the vast majority is in disagreement as it pertains to his having declined since 2018-2019, seeing how that is your argument.

I've listed the metrics... basic box score, raw plus minus, RAPM (from many different sources), LEBRON, DARKO, RAPTOR, MAMBA etc. They all show Lebron on a clear decline from 2018-19 onwards (with the 2020 playoffs being the exception). And the eye test seeing him mail it on defense, looking tired in the 4th quarters etc. These occurrences have become more and more common. And all the injuries of course. It comes with age.

Really? Which of those metrics shows he was not a top five player during the 2020 regular season? Which of those show he was not performing at that level prior to the Solomon Hill injury in 2021?

[AEnigma]

Actually, going into these playoffs, a large majority was operating under the belief that this Lakers team is a contender and at least a WCF shoe-in (4th in title odds overall, 2nd in the West) but after the loss to the Wolves, there are all these excu... erm explanations highlighting all the roster inadequacies. Whether Lebron himself believes the Lakers could win it all is impossible to determine...

Can you find anyone serious, or any serious reasoning, advocating that the Lakers as constructed should have been considered the fourth best team and a conference finals “shoe-in”?

Remember how the Nuggets opened the offseason as conference favourites fresh off losing a starter after a conference semifinals exit? I do.

Remember how that was immediately recognisable as absurd? I do.

Emphasising that a large majority of people believe many false or ridiculous things is not the argument against Lebron you seem to want it to be, but so long as you can conceive of something looking like a possible argument against Lebron, you will evidently use it.

[nzahir]

Give me Goga and Isaac for Rui and Knecht

So Vando and Issac....na

Rui was solid this series, its not his fault he's having go guard Gobert/Randle and no C to help

Goga is a solid C, but not a bouncy big. He can catch lobs, but not his game

I don't think moving Reaves is the right choice, for now at least, but would you guys be interested in a Reaves+Gabe/Vando/Maxi for Suggs swap?

What's wrong with Vando and Isaac?

No shooting

Issac at least is a defensive game changer….but too big of an injury risk

What athletic wings you guys think are available for some sort of package of Knecht, 1st, salaries?

[Ian Scuffling]

Actually, going into these playoffs, a large majority was operating under the belief that this Lakers team is a contender and at least a WCF shoe-in (4th in title odds overall, 2nd in the West) but after the loss to the Wolves, there are all these excu... erm explanations highlighting all the roster inadequacies. Whether Lebron himself believes the Lakers could win it all is impossible to determine...

Now, THIS I completely disagree with. I don't think anyone thought they were a legitimate contender with two defensively terrible guards and absolutely no rim protection. Sure, the offense seemed nice, but in the playoffs, that typically doesn't travel compared to stawart defenses. And it didn't.

[PistolPeteJR]

I think you're taking an exception with the phrase "shell of himself". My point was that he has clearly declined.

Please provide concrete evidence denoting that the vast majority is in disagreement as it pertains to his having declined since 2018-2019, seeing how that is your argument.

I've listed the metrics... basic box score, raw plus minus, RAPM (from many different sources), LEBRON, DARKO, RAPTOR, MAMBA etc. They all show Lebron on a clear decline from 2018-19 onwards (with the 2020 playoffs being the exception). And the eye test seeing him mail it on defense, looking tired in the 4th quarters etc. These occurrences have become more and more common. And all the injuries of course. It comes with age.

Dude stop responding to things no one has said.

“Please provide concrete evidence denoting that the vast majority is in disagreement as it pertains to his having declined since 2018-2019, seeing how that is your argument.”

Simple. You clearly can’t, so let’s close the lid on this rather than just spewing numbers for naught.