Official NBA General Discussion 2024-25 V2.0

[mdenny]

Banchero and Wagner weren’t efficient in the regular season though. They simply aren’t good enough to shoulder a high workload.

I think you’re wildly overrating Suggs. He’s been atrocious as an offensive player. Inefficient, low volume scorer outside of one year. There is nothing to suggest he can be a good scorer in this league.

He is a great complimentary player though if that three is falling like it did two years ago.

I was talking about the playoffs, not the regular season. And I agree they can't shoulder a high workload, which what I'm saying, they need better depth so that they can lesser and more efficient shots.

I never rated Suggs, I just said that that's what I think Orlando is hoping for is that Suggs becomes an efficient scorer...

Yeah, if they can’t find that top-tier scorer then trying to overwhelm teams with 3-4 guys might work. But ultimately they need better talent at the top.

Yeah for sure, Orlando is hoping he can become an efficient, low-volume scorer. I thought you meant he could become a top scorer.

A guy who shoots 2 for 3 is technically an "efficient scorer". I don't play basketball pools....but I'm willing to guess that shooting % is a huge factor in that mess.

None of the greatest players in NBA history that didn't play center or Power forward tend to be very "efficient" players. Unless they are catch and shoot guys....which essentially means they can't dribble.

This whole efficiency regime is insane. Michael Jordan was far from the most efficient player in the league while he was winning chips and mvps. Same thing with Kobe and iverson.

[FrozenLeafz]

I was talking about the playoffs, not the regular season. And I agree they can't shoulder a high workload, which what I'm saying, they need better depth so that they can lesser and more efficient shots.

I never rated Suggs, I just said that that's what I think Orlando is hoping for is that Suggs becomes an efficient scorer...

Yeah, if they can’t find that top-tier scorer then trying to overwhelm teams with 3-4 guys might work. But ultimately they need better talent at the top.

Yeah for sure, Orlando is hoping he can become an efficient, low-volume scorer. I thought you meant he could become a top scorer.

I really think Banchero can be that guy, I've seen him in the clutch before. He just needs a better team

This is the game I saw live and I was in awe. I hope Scottie gets a game like this one day.

Watch on YouTube

[Los_29]

I was talking about the playoffs, not the regular season. And I agree they can't shoulder a high workload, which what I'm saying, they need better depth so that they can lesser and more efficient shots.

I never rated Suggs, I just said that that's what I think Orlando is hoping for is that Suggs becomes an efficient scorer...

Yeah, if they can’t find that top-tier scorer then trying to overwhelm teams with 3-4 guys might work. But ultimately they need better talent at the top.

Yeah for sure, Orlando is hoping he can become an efficient, low-volume scorer. I thought you meant he could become a top scorer.

A guy who shoots 2 for 3 is technically an "efficient scorer". I don't play basketball pools....but I'm willing to guess that shooting % is a huge factor in that mess.

None of the greatest players in NBA history that didn't play center or Power forward tend to be very "efficient" players. Unless they are catch and shoot guys....which essentially means they can't dribble.

This whole efficiency regime is insane. Michael Jordan was far from the most efficient player in the league while he was winning chips and mvps. Same thing with Kobe and iverson.

Jordan had a TS% around or above 60%. That’s very efficient for that era. I’d argue way above average. Kobe was probably around league average or above it in his prime. You combine that with great defense and you got yourself a heck of a player.

Efficiency matters. If you’re not efficient and you shoot at a high volume your team won’t win. AI is kind of the exception to that rule. You certainly don’t see that anymore.

[Los_29]

Yeah, if they can’t find that top-tier scorer then trying to overwhelm teams with 3-4 guys might work. But ultimately they need better talent at the top.

Yeah for sure, Orlando is hoping he can become an efficient, low-volume scorer. I thought you meant he could become a top scorer.

I really think Banchero can be that guy, I've seen him in the clutch before. He just needs a better team

This is the game I saw live and I was in awe. I hope Scottie gets a game like this one day.

Watch on YouTube

Even T. Ross scored 50. It was great to see but means nothing if he’s well below average over the course of a year.

[mdenny]

Yeah, if they can’t find that top-tier scorer then trying to overwhelm teams with 3-4 guys might work. But ultimately they need better talent at the top.

Yeah for sure, Orlando is hoping he can become an efficient, low-volume scorer. I thought you meant he could become a top scorer.

A guy who shoots 2 for 3 is technically an "efficient scorer". I don't play basketball pools....but I'm willing to guess that shooting % is a huge factor in that mess.

None of the greatest players in NBA history that didn't play center or Power forward tend to be very "efficient" players. Unless they are catch and shoot guys....which essentially means they can't dribble.

This whole efficiency regime is insane. Michael Jordan was far from the most efficient player in the league while he was winning chips and mvps. Same thing with Kobe and iverson.

Jordan had a TS% around or above 60%. That’s very efficient for that era. I’d argue way above average. Kobe was probably around league average or above it in his prime. You combine that with great defense and you got yourself a heck of a player.

Efficiency matters. If you’re not efficient and you shoot at a high volume your team won’t win. AI is kind of the exception to that rule. You certainly don’t see that anymore.

Rudy Gobert's career TS% is higher than steph curry.

If Kobe is just under league average and AI far below....those things should also tell us something.

I believe that current emphasis on efficiency is a regime

All shots are not created equal. The TS stat doesn't correct for several clear biases. If it did....rudy Gobert would not score higher than steph curry.

[WuTang_CMB]

Read on Twitter

[WaltFrazier]

No, we should have done a complete tank instead of a half measure every single time. I’m well aware FVV could have kept this team a fringe playoff team and I absolutely didn’t want that.

Seeing how poor the past four drafts have been, that would’ve not been a good idea. We have the benefit of hindsight now. Despite our team being more expensive, we are in much better shape with a lottery pick and our current core than fielding a team of Shaedon Sharpe’s and Reed Sheppard’s.

This is an interesting point. I could be wrong about this....but in the past 5 or 6 years there seems to be a trend in that top draft picks are taking much longer to have an impact on winning than they did before. In the current playoffs.....Cade is the only player that I can name that is making a serious impact. And he's on year 4.

Mobley?

[WaltFrazier]

Read on Twitter

Udoka does seem to have a good defensive scheme

[Los_29]

A guy who shoots 2 for 3 is technically an "efficient scorer". I don't play basketball pools....but I'm willing to guess that shooting % is a huge factor in that mess.

None of the greatest players in NBA history that didn't play center or Power forward tend to be very "efficient" players. Unless they are catch and shoot guys....which essentially means they can't dribble.

This whole efficiency regime is insane. Michael Jordan was far from the most efficient player in the league while he was winning chips and mvps. Same thing with Kobe and iverson.

Jordan had a TS% around or above 60%. That’s very efficient for that era. I’d argue way above average. Kobe was probably around league average or above it in his prime. You combine that with great defense and you got yourself a heck of a player.

Efficiency matters. If you’re not efficient and you shoot at a high volume your team won’t win. AI is kind of the exception to that rule. You certainly don’t see that anymore.

Rudy Gobert's career TS% is higher than steph curry.

If Kobe is just under league average and AI far below....those things should also tell us something.

I believe that current emphasis on efficiency is a regime

All shots are not created equal. The TS stat doesn't correct for several clear biases. If it did....rudy Gobert would not score higher than steph curry.

Most of Gobert’s shots are at the rim and likely assisted. Curry’s shots are much tougher. He’s also a guard.

Efficiency is important. How many high volume, low efficiency players are on winning teams?

Times have changed.

Seeing how poor the past four drafts have been, that would’ve not been a good idea. We have the benefit of hindsight now. Despite our team being more expensive, we are in much better shape with a lottery pick and our current core than fielding a team of Shaedon Sharpe’s and Reed Sheppard’s.

This is an interesting point. I could be wrong about this....but in the past 5 or 6 years there seems to be a trend in that top draft picks are taking much longer to have an impact on winning than they did before. In the current playoffs.....Cade is the only player that I can name that is making a serious impact. And he's on year 4.

Mobley?

Mobley is a good example. Doesn’t score much but can rebound and defend at a high level.

Even Sengun, has been horribly inefficient in these playoffs. It’s his first playoff series though so it will take time. It’s kind of a miracle that they are still alive. Not sure if Houston can win this series if Fred is their best player.

[WaltFrazier]

it's interesting watching Siakam, OG, Fred helping their teams win in the playoffs but they couldn't figure it out playing together on the raptors in their final years....I guess they all got paid and now they started focusing on winning again.

The Tampa season 20-21 was a lost season. I don't know if Raps kept Norm, and maybe traded Kyle at deadline, do they still draft 4th pick. Assuming yes, they still needed to add a C and a back-up PG that summer. Let's say it's Jak a year sooner than he did return. That team would have beaten Philly in the 2022 first round, whether they got past round 2 is debatable. If Fred wasn't hurt that year it makes a big difference. The same team in 2023 would have been a playoff team again, not a play-in vs Bulls team.

Those are the two lost years of a solid playoff team that were wasted by not building a better bench. A core of Jak, Pascal, OG, Norm, Fred, Scottie and back-up PG X would have been a good playoff team. After that, does the money kick in and Raps lose the same players? Possibly, probably? I know it's a lot of hypotheticals and maybe we get to the same point as now anyway. But it would have been great to have two good years with the bench mob core. Instead, there was hardly a single good acquisition from Scottie until the OG trade.

It doesn't matter now, it's over. But it would have been nice.

[FrozenLeafz]

Yeah, if they can’t find that top-tier scorer then trying to overwhelm teams with 3-4 guys might work. But ultimately they need better talent at the top.

Yeah for sure, Orlando is hoping he can become an efficient, low-volume scorer. I thought you meant he could become a top scorer.

A guy who shoots 2 for 3 is technically an "efficient scorer". I don't play basketball pools....but I'm willing to guess that shooting % is a huge factor in that mess.

None of the greatest players in NBA history that didn't play center or Power forward tend to be very "efficient" players. Unless they are catch and shoot guys....which essentially means they can't dribble.

This whole efficiency regime is insane. Michael Jordan was far from the most efficient player in the league while he was winning chips and mvps. Same thing with Kobe and iverson.

Jordan had a TS% around or above 60%. That’s very efficient for that era. I’d argue way above average. Kobe was probably around league average or above it in his prime. You combine that with great defense and you got yourself a heck of a player.

Efficiency matters. If you’re not efficient and you shoot at a high volume your team won’t win. AI is kind of the exception to that rule. You certainly don’t see that anymore.

Are you comparing the league average's true shot % at the time? Because it's wild to say Kobe was average or above efficient when he was really inefficient in the 2010 Finals. You look at Game 7 of the 2010 NBA Finals and he went 6/24. Is that efficient? No, but they still won cause they played defense. So efficiency isn't everything

And this is only Bancharo's third year, he will improve. I think this board underrates him so much. I remember when he made the all star team last year and everybody was pissed and surprised

[FrozenLeafz]

I really think Banchero can be that guy, I've seen him in the clutch before. He just needs a better team

This is the game I saw live and I was in awe. I hope Scottie gets a game like this one day.

Watch on YouTube

Even T. Ross scored 50. It was great to see but means nothing if he’s well below average over the course of a year.

I think you completely forgot what I said previously lol

[Randle McMurphy]

Boogie, remember, take out emotions abd be objective. Fred was not unplayable in any series. The guy averaged 3 shots a game in that Philly series.

You can’t look at boxscore stats. You need to watch the games.

Who cares even if he was unplayable against Philly? Everything in basketball is matchup oriented and that team wasn't a good one for him (or for many of them).

I'll put it as simply as this. The Raptors don't win the 2019 title if FVV isn't on that team. He shot 30/57 from three in the last 9 games of that season while guarding the greatest offensive PG in the history of basketball for most of those.

The fact that this forum regularly goes out of their way to hate on him, a guy who was significantly responsible for winning what will likely be the only Raptors title in our lifetimes, is as much bizarre as it is ridiculous.

I've repeated this multiple times on this board. Fred's games 4, 5 and 6 against the Bucks was the hottest 3 game shooting streak from 3 in the history of the NBA playoffs.

So for example...Steph Curry has never put together a three game shooting streak in the playoffs better than what Fred did in those 3 games.

Fred is playing a much different role in this series against the warriors than he ever played for the raptors. He is literally doing everything on both ends of the court.

That goes for the games when he wasn't shooting well too.

The haters be like "oh look....rocketman341 on Instagram is turning against Fred too!"

Like we shouldn't expect non-basketball ppl to hate on Fred. Been that way his entire career.

Read on Twitter

His opponents even recognize his contributions to that championship. Don’t tell this forum though.

[Agimat]

Read on Twitter

Udoka does seem to have a good defensive scheme

Steven Adams has been a beast controlling the paint. GS also looks old out there in compared to the Rockets

[WuTang_CMB]

Gasol Serge vs philly playbook

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=0YpMScWXY2zRUqR8fH-usg

[KO7]

What channel is the Clippers - Nuggets Game 7 on today?! Neither TSN nor Sportsnet is showing it on the TV guide.

[ItsDanger]

Read on Twitter

[Duffman100]

What channel is the Clippers - Nuggets Game 7 on today?! Neither TSN nor Sportsnet is showing it on the TV guide.

TheScore app says SN1

[Brinbe]

joker looks tired and prob really misses his horsies

[WaltFrazier]

What channel is the Clippers - Nuggets Game 7 on today?! Neither TSN nor Sportsnet is showing it on the TV guide.

TheScore app says SN1

Annoying, I'm in a hotel that only has SNO and SN360. No NBA game