Does the amount of Teams he played for hurt Lebron's legacy?

[pwayknicks]

Yes and no. Some people value sticking it out with one team. However, none of the teams LeBron joined were teams that could have won a chip without him. Miami is grey area because it became a championship favorite largely due to his joining.

I’d argue wade bosh and role players had LeBron stayed in Cleveland would of been just as decent a title contender as LeBron …


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[316Hornets]

It definitely hurts his legacy for diehard fans because there's a lot of respect for guys who stay with who drafted them their whole career. For casual fans, who make up the majority, by going to bigger markets he was able to showcase his skills to a much wider audience and become a household name. The only way he'd be as popular as he is now by staying in Cleveland would have been if he led them to a dynasty.

[jokeboy86]

Does the amount of LeBron threads on the 1st page of the General Forum hurt this sites legacy?

\thread

But seriously Lebron is the single biggest figure in American sports and has been for awhile so even though there's no precedent on the General Forum, I think there should just be one super mega thread for all things Lebron at this point. Whatever hate, love, legacy, off-season, speculation, rumors, news anything should go in a singular thread for Lebron.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Yes and no. Some people value sticking it out with one team. However, none of the teams LeBron joined were teams that could have won a chip without him. Miami is grey area because it became a championship favorite largely due to his joining.

I’d argue wade bosh and role players had LeBron stayed in Cleveland would of been just as decent a title contender as LeBron …


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It would have been up there year 1, all depends how Wade ages and assuming he continues to decline either way, by year 2 or 3 they'd have needed to get more pieces. Although I dunno, there's also the possibility that Bosh assumes the lead scorer role and excels, he had a huge bag he didn't really get to display much during the big 3. The few times LeBron/Wade rested during that era, Bosh would usually score 30+ and the team would compete pretty hard.

[MavsDirk41]

Staying with one team probably helps some players more than others. The greater the player, the more staying with a bad franchise hurts your legacy though. As beloved and memorable as guys like Dirk and Hakeem are, their all time positioning is capped by only getting one or two rings while everyone above them has more after also being in better organizations. Ring culture punishes players for staying put in the wrong franchise, then hypocritical fans get mad when players move so they can be on an even playing field.

Already in this thread two people have claimed moving on from Cleveland was fine for them, he just shouldn't have gone to Miami. What sense does that even make. The whole point of moving is to get to a better roster, but any actually better roster isn't acceptable either. They know in their hearts their position is nonsensical, but are dug in.

If Cleveland is such a bad and poorly run organization why did James go back? Why did he leave Miami which is an outstanding organization? And the Mavs were a playoff team most of Dirks career in Dallas. The fact that he only won one championship doesnt mean the Mavericks were a poorly run organization. Dirk had to deal with Kobes Lakers and Duncans Spurs in the west. They missed on some draft picks and struck out on some free agents but they put a competitive team around Dirk most of his career. Dirk running off to team up with other all stars would not have made him winning more special.

[JujitsuFlip]

Staying with one team probably helps some players more than others. The greater the player, the more staying with a bad franchise hurts your legacy though. As beloved and memorable as guys like Dirk and Hakeem are, their all time positioning is capped by only getting one or two rings while everyone above them has more after also being in better organizations. Ring culture punishes players for staying put in the wrong franchise, then hypocritical fans get mad when players move so they can be on an even playing field.

Already in this thread two people have claimed moving on from Cleveland was fine for them, he just shouldn't have gone to Miami. What sense does that even make. The whole point of moving is to get to a better roster, but any actually better roster isn't acceptable either. They know in their hearts their position is nonsensical, but are dug in.

If Cleveland is such a bad and poorly run organization why did James go back? Why did he leave Miami which is an outstanding organization? And the Mavs were a playoff team most of Dirks career in Dallas. The fact that he only won one championship doesnt mean the Mavericks were a poorly run organization. Dirk had to deal with Kobes Lakers and Duncans Spurs in the west. They missed on some draft picks and struck out on some free agents but they put a competitive team around Dirk most of his career. Dirk running off to team up with other all stars would not have made him winning more special.

Probably the same reason every other star has ran away from Miami. His name might rhyme with Rat Wily.

[OriginalRed]

I think it actually helps his legacy.

He's the only player in NBA history to prove that he can win in 3 completely different teams, different teammates and coaches. He led all 3 to championships and got finals MVP.

I actually think Jordans 6 with Pippen and Jackson is not telling you that Jordan was the common denominator. Rather the combination of the 3 was important and it worked well enough to repeat. Jordan teams didn't look so good without the triangle system. We can only guess if he could have won on other teams and in other systems, no proof.

KAJ also proved it like LeBron.

So let me ask you, has Lebron ever left an easier situation for a harder situation? Of course not, because why would anyone ever willingly do that? MJ winning with a pre-prime, prime and post-prime Pippen (in 1998, when he missed half the season at the age of 32 and scored 8 points in game 6 of the ‘98 finals) is way more impressive than Lebron winning with stars who were in their primes and then leaving the second they get past their primes to go team up with more stars in their primes.

This is so tired.

Lebron left a 61 win Cavs playoff team to join a 47 win Heat who were bounced in the 1st round and added Bosh who came from the under .500 Raptors who missed the playoffs and he had 11 career playoff games to his name.

Lebron left a 54 win Heat Finals team to join a 33 win Cavs team with Kyrie who had never made the playoffs in his career and add Love from the below .500 Wolves who also never played in the playoffs in his career.

Lebron left a 50 win Cavs Finals team to join a 35 win Lakers team. 362 days later added AD who had played a career total 13 playoff games.

What did MJ accomplish without Phil Jackson and Pippen in the NBA? I'll answer for you, nothing.

This also is nothing like KD joining the 73-9 Warriors who won a title together without him before he joined and also eliminated him a couple months before he signed in the WCF after KD was up 3-1 on them dudes.

Stop being disingenuous. One dude jumping to a 73-win team doesn’t make the other guy’s attempt at assembling a super team invisible. We can call both out without pretending one makes the other better.. The previous wins of those Heat and Cavs teams don't matter because your pairing 3 Top 15 players in the league all in their prime; and to the surprise of no one, all of those teams he joined were the clear favorites to win the title each season.

And yes Jordan never won anything without Phil or Pippen but that hardly matters when he played 5 seasons out of 15 (his first three and last two) without them and clearly wasn't ready or didnt have enough to compete for titles.

[JujitsuFlip]

So let me ask you, has Lebron ever left an easier situation for a harder situation? Of course not, because why would anyone ever willingly do that? MJ winning with a pre-prime, prime and post-prime Pippen (in 1998, when he missed half the season at the age of 32 and scored 8 points in game 6 of the ‘98 finals) is way more impressive than Lebron winning with stars who were in their primes and then leaving the second they get past their primes to go team up with more stars in their primes.

This is so tired.

Lebron left a 61 win Cavs playoff team to join a 47 win Heat who were bounced in the 1st round and added Bosh who came from the under .500 Raptors who missed the playoffs and he had 11 career playoff games to his name.

Lebron left a 54 win Heat Finals team to join a 33 win Cavs team with Kyrie who had never made the playoffs in his career and add Love from the below .500 Wolves who also never played in the playoffs in his career.

Lebron left a 50 win Cavs Finals team to join a 35 win Lakers team. 362 days later added AD who had played a career total 13 playoff games.

What did MJ accomplish without Phil Jackson and Pippen in the NBA? I'll answer for you, nothing.

This also is nothing like KD joining the 73-9 Warriors who won a title together without him before he joined and also eliminated him a couple months before he signed in the WCF after KD was up 3-1 on them dudes.

Stop being disingenuous. One dude jumping to a 73-win team doesn’t make the other guy’s attempt at assembling a super team invisible. We can call both out without pretending one makes the other better.. The previous wins of those Heat and Cavs teams don't matter because your pairing 3 Top 15 players in the league all in their prime; and to the surprise of no one, all of those teams he joined were the clear favorites to win the title each season.

And yes Jordan never won anything without Phil or Pippen but that hardly matters when he played 5 seasons out of 15 (his first three and last two) without them and clearly wasn't ready or didnt have enough to compete for titles.

In the 2009-10 season Bosh was not All-NBA, so I'll push back hard on him being a top 15 player.

Kyrie was 22 years old when LeBron returned to the Cavs, guy was not in his prime nor All-NBA in 2013-14 so again, going to push back hard on him being a top 15 player.

So maybe those teams being the clear favorite to win has something to do with LeBron?

[MavsDirk41]

I think it actually helps his legacy.

He's the only player in NBA history to prove that he can win in 3 completely different teams, different teammates and coaches. He led all 3 to championships and got finals MVP.

I actually think Jordans 6 with Pippen and Jackson is not telling you that Jordan was the common denominator. Rather the combination of the 3 was important and it worked well enough to repeat. Jordan teams didn't look so good without the triangle system. We can only guess if he could have won on other teams and in other systems, no proof.

KAJ also proved it like LeBron.

So let me ask you, has Lebron ever left an easier situation for a harder situation? Of course not, because why would anyone ever willingly do that? MJ winning with a pre-prime, prime and post-prime Pippen (in 1998, when he missed half the season at the age of 32 and scored 8 points in game 6 of the ‘98 finals) is way more impressive than Lebron winning with stars who were in their primes and then leaving the second they get past their primes to go team up with more stars in their primes.

This is so tired.

Lebron left a 61 win Cavs playoff team to join a 47 win Heat who were bounced in the 1st round and added Bosh who came from the under .500 Raptors who missed the playoffs and he had 11 career playoff games to his name.

Lebron left a 54 win Heat Finals team to join a 33 win Cavs team with Kyrie who had never made the playoffs in his career and add Love from the below .500 Wolves who also never played in the playoffs in his career.

Lebron left a 50 win Cavs Finals team to join a 35 win Lakers team. 362 days later added AD who had played a career total 13 playoff games.

What did MJ accomplish without Phil Jackson and Pippen in the NBA? I'll answer for you, nothing.

This also is nothing like KD joining the 73-9 Warriors who won a title together without him before he joined and also eliminated him a couple months before he signed in the WCF after KD was up 3-1 on them dudes.

This is so exhausting.

But lets check out the east in 09/10. Orlando won 59 games with Howard, Rashard Lewis, Jameer Nelson, Matt Barnes and 33 year old Vince Carter. Atlanta won 50 plus with Al Horford, Josh Smith, and Joe Johnson, and Boston won 50 plus with 34 year old Ray Allen, 33 year old Garnett, and Pierce. I wouldnt call the East talented at this point in nba history.

Miami added two all star players to join Wade. Why would they not be contenders. Take Bosh off that Toronto team and add just James. They still arent winning anything.

Kyrie Irving was 22 when James teamed up with him in Cleveland. What had James won at 22? Take Love off that Minnesota team and add James and they win nothing.

What did James accomplish without Wade, Bosh, Irving, Davis, and Love? Ill answer for you….nothing…

And he just got gifted a 26 year old top 5 player. Jordan was playing with Stackhouse and Ty Lue at 40. Quit the glazing.

[MavsDirk41]

Staying with one team probably helps some players more than others. The greater the player, the more staying with a bad franchise hurts your legacy though. As beloved and memorable as guys like Dirk and Hakeem are, their all time positioning is capped by only getting one or two rings while everyone above them has more after also being in better organizations. Ring culture punishes players for staying put in the wrong franchise, then hypocritical fans get mad when players move so they can be on an even playing field.

Already in this thread two people have claimed moving on from Cleveland was fine for them, he just shouldn't have gone to Miami. What sense does that even make. The whole point of moving is to get to a better roster, but any actually better roster isn't acceptable either. They know in their hearts their position is nonsensical, but are dug in.

If Cleveland is such a bad and poorly run organization why did James go back? Why did he leave Miami which is an outstanding organization? And the Mavs were a playoff team most of Dirks career in Dallas. The fact that he only won one championship doesnt mean the Mavericks were a poorly run organization. Dirk had to deal with Kobes Lakers and Duncans Spurs in the west. They missed on some draft picks and struck out on some free agents but they put a competitive team around Dirk most of his career. Dirk running off to team up with other all stars would not have made him winning more special.

Probably the same reason every other star has ran away from Miami. His name might rhyme with Rat Wily.

Magic, Kareem, and Ewing succeeded playing under him. Wade and Butler also. Sounds like an excuse. But im not surprised. Always somebody else’s fault. The only thing you want to hear is James is perfect and if he had competent coaching and teammates he would have 22 championships.

[JujitsuFlip]

If Cleveland is such a bad and poorly run organization why did James go back? Why did he leave Miami which is an outstanding organization? And the Mavs were a playoff team most of Dirks career in Dallas. The fact that he only won one championship doesnt mean the Mavericks were a poorly run organization. Dirk had to deal with Kobes Lakers and Duncans Spurs in the west. They missed on some draft picks and struck out on some free agents but they put a competitive team around Dirk most of his career. Dirk running off to team up with other all stars would not have made him winning more special.

Probably the same reason every other star has ran away from Miami. His name might rhyme with Rat Wily.

Magic, Kareem, and Ewing succeeded playing under him. Wade and Butler also. Sounds like an excuse. But im not surprised. Always somebody else’s fault. The only thing you want to hear is James is perfect and if he had competent coaching and teammates he would have 22 championships.

Quite the straw man you have built there lol

[MavsDirk41]

This is so tired.

Lebron left a 61 win Cavs playoff team to join a 47 win Heat who were bounced in the 1st round and added Bosh who came from the under .500 Raptors who missed the playoffs and he had 11 career playoff games to his name.

Lebron left a 54 win Heat Finals team to join a 33 win Cavs team with Kyrie who had never made the playoffs in his career and add Love from the below .500 Wolves who also never played in the playoffs in his career.

Lebron left a 50 win Cavs Finals team to join a 35 win Lakers team. 362 days later added AD who had played a career total 13 playoff games.

What did MJ accomplish without Phil Jackson and Pippen in the NBA? I'll answer for you, nothing.

This also is nothing like KD joining the 73-9 Warriors who won a title together without him before he joined and also eliminated him a couple months before he signed in the WCF after KD was up 3-1 on them dudes.

Stop being disingenuous. One dude jumping to a 73-win team doesn’t make the other guy’s attempt at assembling a super team invisible. We can call both out without pretending one makes the other better.. The previous wins of those Heat and Cavs teams don't matter because your pairing 3 Top 15 players in the league all in their prime; and to the surprise of no one, all of those teams he joined were the clear favorites to win the title each season.

And yes Jordan never won anything without Phil or Pippen but that hardly matters when he played 5 seasons out of 15 (his first three and last two) without them and clearly wasn't ready or didnt have enough to compete for titles.

In the 2009-10 season Bosh was not All-NBA, so I'll push back hard on him being a top 15 player.

Kyrie was 22 years old when LeBron returned to the Cavs, guy was not in his prime nor All-NBA in 2013-14 so again, going to push back hard on him being a top 15 player.

So maybe those teams being the clear favorite to win has something to do with LeBron?

09 Bosh was an allstar and averaged 24/11
13 Irving was an allstar and averaged 21/6/4

Maybe not top 15 but they were still two of the best players in the nba during those seasons. But its never good enough.

[Jedi32]

It actually helps imo. Every where he's went he's won. Different cats, different coaches, different cities. The only common denominator is him.

[MavsDirk41]

Probably the same reason every other star has ran away from Miami. His name might rhyme with Rat Wily.

Magic, Kareem, and Ewing succeeded playing under him. Wade and Butler also. Sounds like an excuse. But im not surprised. Always somebody else’s fault. The only thing you want to hear is James is perfect and if he had competent coaching and teammates he would have 22 championships.

Quite the straw man you have built there lol

James fan base has the most excuses out of any player on here. Never his fault but i dont blame his fans, they get it from him.

[Harry Palmer]

I’d say it depends on whether multiple teams solidifies as the new normal in the future or reverts back to stars mainly playing with 1 or 2 teams. I suspect the former unless there is some change in the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

[OriginalRed]

This is so tired.

Lebron left a 61 win Cavs playoff team to join a 47 win Heat who were bounced in the 1st round and added Bosh who came from the under .500 Raptors who missed the playoffs and he had 11 career playoff games to his name.

Lebron left a 54 win Heat Finals team to join a 33 win Cavs team with Kyrie who had never made the playoffs in his career and add Love from the below .500 Wolves who also never played in the playoffs in his career.

Lebron left a 50 win Cavs Finals team to join a 35 win Lakers team. 362 days later added AD who had played a career total 13 playoff games.

What did MJ accomplish without Phil Jackson and Pippen in the NBA? I'll answer for you, nothing.

This also is nothing like KD joining the 73-9 Warriors who won a title together without him before he joined and also eliminated him a couple months before he signed in the WCF after KD was up 3-1 on them dudes.

Stop being disingenuous. One dude jumping to a 73-win team doesn’t make the other guy’s attempt at assembling a super team invisible. We can call both out without pretending one makes the other better.. The previous wins of those Heat and Cavs teams don't matter because your pairing 3 Top 15 players in the league all in their prime; and to the surprise of no one, all of those teams he joined were the clear favorites to win the title each season.

And yes Jordan never won anything without Phil or Pippen but that hardly matters when he played 5 seasons out of 15 (his first three and last two) without them and clearly wasn't ready or didnt have enough to compete for titles.

In the 2009-10 season Bosh was not All-NBA, so I'll push back hard on him being a top 15 player.

Kyrie was 22 years old when LeBron returned to the Cavs, guy was not in his prime nor All-NBA in 2013-14 so again, going to push back hard on him being a top 15 player.

So maybe those teams being the clear favorite to win has something to do with LeBron?

Bosh absolutely was a Top 15 player heading into 2011. All NBA teams back then were still position based so you can't just use that as your criteria. He was Top 10 in the league in nearly every advanced stat and should have made it over guys like Joe Johnson and Brandon Roy if they didn't need guards on the team. Why do you think Miami was called a Big Three and not Two and a half lol?

Your Kyrie point is more valid since he wasn't quite there yet in 2014 but by the time the Cavs started clicking in 2015 he was definitely one of the best guards in the NBA despite being 23 and Kevin Love as we all know was at worst the second best power forward in the game. Both those teams were looked at as super teams, so him joining some low win team the previous year doesn't matter when your pairing such talent on one team.

[JujitsuFlip]

This is so exhausting.

But lets check out the east in 09/10. Orlando won 59 games with Howard, Rashard Lewis, Jameer Nelson, Matt Barnes and 33 year old Vince Carter. Atlanta won 50 plus with Al Horford, Josh Smith, and Joe Johnson, and Boston won 50 plus with 34 year old Ray Allen, 33 year old Garnett, and Pierce. I wouldnt call the East talented at this point in nba history.

Miami added two all star players to join Wade. Why would they not be contenders. Take Bosh off that Toronto team and add just James. They still arent winning anything.

Kyrie Irving was 22 when James teamed up with him in Cleveland. What had James won at 22? Take Love off that Minnesota team and add James and they win nothing.

What did James accomplish without Wade, Bosh, Irving, Davis, and Love? Ill answer for you….nothing…

And he just got gifted a 26 year old top 5 player. Jordan was playing with Stackhouse and Ty Lue at 40. Quit the glazing.

You're moving the goal posts. Who said Wade, Bosh, and LBJ aren't contenders? lmao

What had James did at age 22 you ask? Take the Cavs to the NBA Finals, what a terrible position for you to take, lol

Uhm, that's untrue. LeBron went to the Finals in 2007 and 2018 without any of the bold. He also was a 2 time MVP of the league, 8 time All-NBA, 8 time All-Star, and 1 time All-Defense... That right there is a hall of fame career all on it's own.

[uncleduck13]

You guys are way too obsessed with this legacy stuff.

Literally nothing anybody has done (that’s alive right now) will matter in 100 years lol

[ItsDanger]

Lakers obsession here is unhealthy.

[JujitsuFlip]

Stop being disingenuous. One dude jumping to a 73-win team doesn’t make the other guy’s attempt at assembling a super team invisible. We can call both out without pretending one makes the other better.. The previous wins of those Heat and Cavs teams don't matter because your pairing 3 Top 15 players in the league all in their prime; and to the surprise of no one, all of those teams he joined were the clear favorites to win the title each season.

And yes Jordan never won anything without Phil or Pippen but that hardly matters when he played 5 seasons out of 15 (his first three and last two) without them and clearly wasn't ready or didnt have enough to compete for titles.

In the 2009-10 season Bosh was not All-NBA, so I'll push back hard on him being a top 15 player.

Kyrie was 22 years old when LeBron returned to the Cavs, guy was not in his prime nor All-NBA in 2013-14 so again, going to push back hard on him being a top 15 player.

So maybe those teams being the clear favorite to win has something to do with LeBron?

Bosh absolutely was a Top 15 player heading into 2011. All NBA teams back then were still position based so you can't just use that as your criteria. He was Top 10 in the league in nearly every advanced stat and should have made it over guys like Joe Johnson and Brandon Roy if they didn't need guards on the team. Why do you think Miami was called a Big Three and not Two and a half lol?

Your Kyrie point is more valid since he wasn't quite there yet in 2014 but by the time the Cavs started clicking in 2015 he was definitely one of the best guards in the NBA despite being 23 and Kevin Love as we all know was at worst the second best power forward in the game. Both those teams were looked at as super teams, so him joining some low win team the previous year doesn't matter when your pairing such talent on one team.

They were called the big 3 bc the Celtics coined that phrase and the Heat were built to beat them, if you recall.

https://youtu.be/ExD8Hufin9U?si=T5Ijh4xM2zENcf-w

I know most people don't want to acknowledge that because then it kills the narrative.

But it matters that Kyrie and Love had never played in the playoffs... They had not proven anything. It also matters in the 2015 Finals LeBron didn't get to start alongside Kyrie, Love, and Andy V like he did to start that season.