2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10

[MettaWorldPanda]

Anyone taking Kawhi over KD?

He’s not leaving LA. He loves being close to home.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Anyone taking Kawhi over KD?

He’s not leaving LA. He loves being close to home.

WAY too injury prone too

[3ammy3uck3ts]

KDs bringing Harden and we’re going to win a championship I can’t be happy about because everyone’s going to pretend harden is better than Wade all time after

[batterybro42]

KDs bringing Harden and we’re going to win a championship I can’t be happy about because everyone’s going to pretend harden is better than Wade all time after

Harden
KD
Bam

I think it’s the best team in the East

Bam is the perfect conduit between two stars he’s like a Rich mans Chris Bosh. I’m not sold Herro is one of those stars here. Need two more which was the entire issue with the Jimmy build.

I think the way the CBA is structured having a lot of our money tied up in guys who are on their way out of the league isn’t a bad thing. I bet you ultimately end up with guys hitting FA and getting signed on absolute steals by the end of this thing. It just may take a few years for the market to play out. The fact that the Celtics have to blow up their roster should be a red flag for a lot of people. I think you are going to want to maintain a certain level of flexibility with your cap and title windows will be increasingly shorter.

The first team that realizes that it’s best to just not sign a max guy and just acquire a bunch of picks will break the system. If a big time FA went unrestricted right now, who could even afford him?

[HeatFanLifer]

The first team that realizes that it’s best to just not sign a max guy and just acquire a bunch of picks will break the system. If a big time FA went unrestricted right now, who could even afford him?

Isn’t that what the Mavs realized when they traded Doncic? That max contract was gonna be over $300 million. The Mavs just messed up not getting the right pieces for him.

I agree though about the limitations of the cap. The champions of the future are going to be the teams that get lower regarded players, win with them, and then trade those players for other lower regarded players when their talent want too much money.

The Warriors kind of highlight this model of winning. They had lower regarded players, then turned them into superstars that were signed to reasonable contract extensions. With extra cap space they were able to go all-in and get Durant to seal them some more chips. It all went to s#it once their players re-upped. But it worked for a while.

[batterybro42]

The first team that realizes that it’s best to just not sign a max guy and just acquire a bunch of picks will break the system. If a big time FA went unrestricted right now, who could even afford him?

Isn’t that what the Mavs realized when they traded Doncic? That max contract was gonna be over $300 million. The Mavs just messed up not getting the right pieces for him.

I agree though about the limitations of the cap. The champions of the future are going to be the teams that get lower regarded players, win with them, and then trade those players for other lower regarded players when their talent want too much money.

The Warriors kind of highlight this model of winning. They had lower regarded players, then turned them into superstars that were signed to reasonable contract extensions. With extra cap space they were able to go all-in and get Durant to seal them some more chips. It all went to s#it once their players re-upped. But it worked for a while.

There is only 1 team in the NBA with the cap space to even sign a max guy if he hit the market that’s the Nets. The next biggest cap availability is only 30 million. This issue will only compound as things move forward.

I think teams are making a mistake by extending their players too. Let them hit FA and negotiate from there. You’re going to be able to outbid anybody by having bird rights most likely anyways.

I’m of the opinion Herro is worth about 30 million not the 50+ he may be eligible for. Let him hit the market and that will become very clear. Somebody soon is going to game this system in that manner and break the game. STOP offering extensions!

It’s not like many teams are going to be able to offload money anyways if they even wanted to sign a guy. Half the teams in the league will have to aggregate salaries in trades pretty soon anyways. It’s funny this issue happens in 2K franchises when you get pretty deep in the sim, a lot of people consider it a bug, to me it’s problem with how the CBA is structured and how it’s going to price a ton of teams just out of the market , you could make a killing signing mid tier players who aren’t quite max worthy but very good for steep discounts.

[Kobewade11]

I think teams are making a mistake by extending their players too. Let them hit FA and negotiate from there. You’re going to be able to outbid anybody by having bird rights most likely anyways.

I’m of the opinion Herro is worth about 30 million not the 50+ he may be eligible for. Let him hit the market and that will become very clear. Somebody soon is going to game this system in that manner and break the game. STOP offering extensions!

50 million in 2027 will be the equivalent of 30 million in today’s NBA. If you believe he is worth 30 million today then extending him isnt a problem.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

KDs bringing Harden and we’re going to win a championship I can’t be happy about because everyone’s going to pretend harden is better than Wade all time after

Harden
KD
Bam

I think it’s the best team in the East

Bam is the perfect conduit between two stars he’s like a Rich mans Chris Bosh. I’m not sold Herro is one of those stars here. Need two more which was the entire issue with the Jimmy build.

I think the way the CBA is structured having a lot of our money tied up in guys who are on their way out of the league isn’t a bad thing. I bet you ultimately end up with guys hitting FA and getting signed on absolute steals by the end of this thing. It just may take a few years for the market to play out. The fact that the Celtics have to blow up their roster should be a red flag for a lot of people. I think you are going to want to maintain a certain level of flexibility with your cap and title windows will be increasingly shorter.

The first team that realizes that it’s best to just not sign a max guy and just acquire a bunch of picks will break the system. If a big time FA went unrestricted right now, who could even afford him?

People like to look over the fact that Spos put Bam in the Bosh role and Bam has outperformed him on both sides of the ball and overachieved with the rosters we had.

I’d love to see him playing the role with at least some what comparable lead guys to what Bosh had (I know Wade and peak LeBron are a huge ask) but we almost had something similar if the Dame stuff didn’t fall through.

[VaDe255]

I think teams are making a mistake by extending their players too. Let them hit FA and negotiate from there. You’re going to be able to outbid anybody by having bird rights most likely anyways.

I’m of the opinion Herro is worth about 30 million not the 50+ he may be eligible for. Let him hit the market and that will become very clear. Somebody soon is going to game this system in that manner and break the game. STOP offering extensions!

50 million in 2027 will be the equivalent of 30 million in today’s NBA. If you believe he is worth 30 million today then extending him isnt a problem.

I'm a Herro believer but, if you’re not sure he can be a true #1 option, then extending him at near max money is a mistake and I lean towards probably not. His value is based almost entirely on his scoring and spacing, but if he’s not the primary engine of your offense, then you're committing star level money to a player who doesn’t move the needle in that way.

Defensively, he’s a liability. In playoff settings where every possession is a mismatch hunt, he’s the guy opposing offenses will target. That makes it hard to justify keeping him on the floor.
If you already have a high usage guard or wing, Herro isn’t the ideal complement. You’re better off with a true 3&D guard, someone like Davion who can guard the point of attack, space the floor, and handle a bit without needing a high usage rate. That’s the kind of player who scales well with stars, and they’re typically on more movable, team friendly contracts. That is exactly the reason Gabe worked with MVP year Jimmy.

If Herro doesn’t take a leap, his deal becomes one of those “tough to trade without attaching a pick” contracts, especially once his salary jumps to $50M+ annually. I'd offer him similiar deal to Brunson's money and otherwise ask him to prove he is worth more.

[Beenie]

Anyone taking Kawhi over KD?

I think Kawhi is arguably the best player in basketball when healthy.

That said, if Jimmy was too unavailable for this franchise to deal with, there’s no way they’re tolerating Kawhi.

It’s not like KD is the pilar of health and availability either but Kawhi occupies his own tier when it comes to the unavailable superstar category

[Kobewade11]

I think teams are making a mistake by extending their players too. Let them hit FA and negotiate from there. You’re going to be able to outbid anybody by having bird rights most likely anyways.

I’m of the opinion Herro is worth about 30 million not the 50+ he may be eligible for. Let him hit the market and that will become very clear. Somebody soon is going to game this system in that manner and break the game. STOP offering extensions!

50 million in 2027 will be the equivalent of 30 million in today’s NBA. If you believe he is worth 30 million today then extending him isnt a problem.

I'm a Herro believer but, if you’re not sure he can be a true #1 option, then extending him at near max money is a mistake and I lean towards probably not. His value is based almost entirely on his scoring and spacing, but if he’s not the primary engine of your offense, then you're committing star level money to a player who doesn’t move the needle in that way.

Defensively, he’s a liability. In playoff settings where every possession is a mismatch hunt, he’s the guy opposing offenses will target. That makes it hard to justify keeping him on the floor.
If you already have a high usage guard or wing, Herro isn’t the ideal complement. You’re better off with a true 3&D guard, someone like Davion who can guard the point of attack, space the floor, and handle a bit without needing a high usage rate. That’s the kind of player who scales well with stars, and they’re typically on more movable, team friendly contracts. That is exactly the reason Gabe worked with MVP year Jimmy.

If Herro doesn’t take a leap, his deal becomes one of those “tough to trade without attaching a pick” contracts, especially once his salary jumps to $50M+ annually. I'd offer him similiar deal to Brunson's money and otherwise ask him to prove he is worth more.

I don't believe Herro needs to be a #1 option to justify an extension. With the projected salary cap, a potential extension puts him right around 20-25% of the cap, as long as he remains a top 3 player on the team its not bad money.

[Heat3]

KDs bringing Harden and we’re going to win a championship I can’t be happy about because everyone’s going to pretend harden is better than Wade all time after

Harden
KD
Bam

I think it’s the best team in the East

Bam is the perfect conduit between two stars he’s like a Rich mans Chris Bosh. I’m not sold Herro is one of those stars here. Need two more which was the entire issue with the Jimmy build.

I think the way the CBA is structured having a lot of our money tied up in guys who are on their way out of the league isn’t a bad thing. I bet you ultimately end up with guys hitting FA and getting signed on absolute steals by the end of this thing. It just may take a few years for the market to play out. The fact that the Celtics have to blow up their roster should be a red flag for a lot of people. I think you are going to want to maintain a certain level of flexibility with your cap and title windows will be increasingly shorter.

The first team that realizes that it’s best to just not sign a max guy and just acquire a bunch of picks will break the system. If a big time FA went unrestricted right now, who could even afford him?

People like to look over the fact that Spos put Bam in the Bosh role and Bam has outperformed him on both sides of the ball and overachieved with the rosters we had.

I’d love to see him playing the role with at least some what comparable lead guys to what Bosh had (I know Wade and peak LeBron are a huge ask) but we almost had something similar if the Dame stuff didn’t fall through.

Outperformed Bosh on offense? You go too far with these comments

Bam at his best is only close to Bosh in a 3rd man role while playing next to all time great scorers so his numbers were reduced. His last year in Toronto is better than anything Bam has ever done offensively. Whenever he played without the other stars Bosh would take it up a notch on offense and remind people what he could do.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Harden
KD
Bam

I think it’s the best team in the East

Bam is the perfect conduit between two stars he’s like a Rich mans Chris Bosh. I’m not sold Herro is one of those stars here. Need two more which was the entire issue with the Jimmy build.

I think the way the CBA is structured having a lot of our money tied up in guys who are on their way out of the league isn’t a bad thing. I bet you ultimately end up with guys hitting FA and getting signed on absolute steals by the end of this thing. It just may take a few years for the market to play out. The fact that the Celtics have to blow up their roster should be a red flag for a lot of people. I think you are going to want to maintain a certain level of flexibility with your cap and title windows will be increasingly shorter.

The first team that realizes that it’s best to just not sign a max guy and just acquire a bunch of picks will break the system. If a big time FA went unrestricted right now, who could even afford him?

People like to look over the fact that Spos put Bam in the Bosh role and Bam has outperformed him on both sides of the ball and overachieved with the rosters we had.

I’d love to see him playing the role with at least some what comparable lead guys to what Bosh had (I know Wade and peak LeBron are a huge ask) but we almost had something similar if the Dame stuff didn’t fall through.

Outperformed Bosh on offense? You go too far with these comments

Bam at his best is only close to Bosh in a 3rd man role while playing next to all time great scorers so his numbers were reduced. His last year in Toronto is better than anything Bam has ever done offensively. Whenever he played without the other stars Bosh would take it up a notch on offense and remind people what he could do.

I’m going to make some statements below, you tell me which of them are wrong and why back with something other than just an opinion:

1. Over the last 6 seasons Bam has averaged 19-10-4 on 13.4 shot attempts, 59.1TS% with a 23.8 usage rate. In the big 3 era Bosh averaged 17-7-2 on 13 shot attempts, 57.8TS% with a 23.2 usage rate. So with nearly the same shot attempts and usage rate Bam scored more, did it more efficiently (without the luxury of playing with 2 of the greatest passers the league has ever seen), and was more than twice the playmaker Bosh was (does passing not matter offensively any more?) So where exactly did Bosh outperform Bam offensively in the same role, or at least where it’s considered laughable to say?

2. Sure, in Toronto Bosh put up big numbers on bottom feeding teams cast as a 1st option with 17 shots a night. If you put Bam on the Wizards and told him he’s the 1st option and designed the playbook for him to score he would put up numbers too. Bosh also again had the luxury of playing with a very good playmaker in Calderon.

3. As for Bosh taking it up a notch when LeBron and Wade were out to remind people what he could do, in games without both Wade and LeBron Bosh averaged 24-9-4.5-1-1 on 51% shooting 17.3 shots a game. Bam without Jimmy and Herro averaged 23-10.5-6.5 on 57% shooting 15.8 shot attempts. Better than Bosh’s best season in Toronto but obviously on a smaller sample size than his entire season but goes to the point of Bam putting up numbers if he was in a Toronto Bosh role.

4. I agree that scoring is more fluid to Bosh, in large part to having several seasons on a bottom feeder where the scoring ran through him as the top option having a big help on his development there (it’s why I wanted all the actions ran for Herro/Bam post Jimmy to try and help them take a leap there) but if he was so much better offensively than Bam that it was laughable I would expect there to be a wider variance in their numbers in favor of Bosh considering they have the same amount of shot attempts and usage rate basically coupled with the fact that Bosh played with 2 of the greatest players and passers the league has ever seen who took tons of pressure off him. Instead the numbers actually favor Bam playmaking wise by a mile and even scoring wise. Hell even Bams 3 point shooting this year was better than any season Bosh had with the big 3 so I’m curious how Bosh outperformed Bam offensively

[carnageta]

Another look at Harden this summer?

[MettaWorldPanda]

Another look at Harden this summer?

Harden and Durant reunion could be very interesting with this core.

[carnageta]

Another look at Harden this summer?

Harden and Durant reunion could be very interesting with this core.

I agree.

Not only would those guys make things easier for Bam, but vice-versa as well. Seems like the perfect fit for Adebayo, Ware, and DMitchell.

[carnageta]

Bring in CP3 as well, alongside KD and Harden.

Harden/CP3
DMitchell/Larsson
KD/Highsmith
Bam/Jovic
Ware

One of Harden or CP3 on the floor at all times will go a long way towards helping ensure our offense doesn't completely collapse. Surround KD and Bam with playmakers (Harden, CP3, etc.) and surround KD and Harden with 3nD / high energy players (DMitchell, Larrson, Highsmith, Bam, etc), and you may have a recipe for success.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Another look at Harden this summer?

Harden and Durant reunion could be very interesting with this core.

I agree.

Not only would those guys make things easier for Bam, but vice-versa as well. Seems like the perfect fit for Adebayo, Ware, and DMitchell.

Issue with Harden is always money. Clippers can still offer him the most. If we are making a big change to the core a Herro for Harden S&T could be discussed. Harden will still want to be making that 30 mil per. That’s the amount of Herro’s current deal. Harden has a player option for 36 million on the table.

[carnageta]

Even if we can't get Harden, we should aim for KD and CP3 (at minimum).

DMitchell/CP3
Herro/Larsson
KD/Highsmith
Bam/Jovic
Ware

[MettaWorldPanda]

Even if we can't get Harden, we should aim for KD and CP3 (at minimum).

DMitchell/CP3
Herro/Larsson
KD/Highsmith
Bam/Jovic
Ware

Really believe we are in the driver’s seat for KD. I’m willing to debate anyone who thinks otherwise. I’ve countered Houston numerous times already. Spurs could pose a risk but think that’s where Giannis is headed.