Official 2025 Offseason Thread

[T-Cat]

Free Agents of interest to consider filling out our roster shrewdly & inexpensively (role players)...
Marvin Bagley ready for a $5-7m dollar deal? needs another look,imo
Davion Mitchell...RFA-tearing it up in MIA
Bobby Portis ...player option for $13.4m, solid solid 2-way vet and tough guy
Al Horford ...he's going to retire or re-up but he's still formidable and smart
D'Angelo Russell so much talent, so many questions
Cam Payne
Ziaire Williams...failure to launch, but still only 23yo- vet min experiment that could pay?
Andre Drummond...player option for $5m. Ready to eject from PHI? Limited all-around but among the best rebounders EVER
Guerschon Yabusele...big & physical, flopped then excelled with french national team and had a solid year in PHI
Gary Trent Jr ...took a huge pay cut to play in MIL and we know he can shoot it, some VERY bad moments in playoffs might mean a fresh start
Tre Jones ...similar efficiency but not as impressive as his brother Tyus...shot it well from 3 this year, but not historically-is he better than CoJo?
Ty Jerome...nuff said...among the most desirable FA's but no one has $$$ and he's not worth backing up the Brinks truck
Tristan Thompson...vet min, super solid old...this is what a 3rd string C is supposed to look like and be paid like. Example of an old $3m guy that could start for us...meanwhile, we have $40m tied up in C spot and one is too small and unreliable, one doesn't play D, and one looks lost
Tim Hardaway Jr...can DET afford Beasley's big raise, retaining Schroder AND not completely low-ball THJ? Should they? Maybe hunting bigger game
Dennis Schroder...if our Germans approve of him, it should have been a no-brainer last summer. DET maybe investing elsewehere with Ivey back
Clint Capela...he'd be our best Center, rapidly depreciating? Is he ready for a large cut in pay for a new opportunity? Will he just rescue LAL for vet min?
Caris Levert...formidable scorer on the downhill, is he ready to take a role player salary? He HAS scored 20ppg and HAS pitched 5+apg and - Michigan
Tre Mann...RFA, very intriguing stats and physical profile...is he capable of bigger role? is he a PG? does he defend? How much will he command?
Seth Curry...single tool player, has been well over 40% from 3 nearly every year...45% or higher FIVE TIMES...vet min, defenseless, too small?
Malcolm Brogdon...UFA, ready for a big pay cut? What happened to this guy-he vanished? If injuries aren't too big an issue - tremendous vet combo G
DeAndre Jordan...long in the tooth, vet min? Can still put up points and especially rebounds - huge throwback C to give you 10-15 mpg
Joe Ingles...only played in 18 games in MIN, is he toast or just buried on a stacked team...if he can play, I'd love him back, ultra BBIQ & mentor
Bones Hyland...so much talent, so many questions
Ajay Mitchell...OKC is so stacked, he may just be buried and they can't give him a raise, just 23yo...I liked his draft profile, 6'5 PG that can shoot
Vasilije Micic...euro whiz PG passing phenom that has done nothing in his short NBA career...why?
Tyus Jones...took a massive pay cut to start for goofy PHX...what's next? and how much? Would be MUCH better than CoJo off bench, but not starter
Monte Morris...same as Tyus...what happened? PG who can shoot
Mason Plumlee...budget big man...again, you're 3rd string C should be a heady vet min guy. Plumlee is older, but tough and a very good passer
Trey Lyles...solid, versatile big man...only 29, is he ready to be a vet min rotation guy on a good young team?
Spencer Dinwiddie...31yo, big PG, has had many high points in his career, both scoring and assists, good defender, could easily start for ORL at PG
Steven Adams...massive, tough, elite offensive rebounder, gets around the MLE...not sure HOU would let him go...would be a great get in many ways
Santi Aldama...RFA, 7', slim, good 3pt shooter, could he be an undiscovered gem in the wrong place...maybe ready for a change of venue?
Bruce Brown...he was never THAT great, does he understand that he was intentionally overpaid and ready for a vet min? better Harris?
Mo Bamba...laugh all you want, 3rd string C, vet min, shot blocker that could, conceivably make 5 3pt shots if left open...end of the bench, high upside
Chris Paul...what does he want? where does he want to be? I'd even consider giving him as many minutes as he can handle...no question he improves ORL, just a matter of how much he's got in the tank. Certainly worth making a friendly call...I expect him to stay in SAS, but Fox

NONE OF THESE ARE SAVIORS...THE IDEA IS THAT WE REWORK OUR WHOLE ROSTER AND UNLOAD HIGH-SALARY "OK" GUYS WITH VERY LOW SALARY "OK" GUYS. THAT'S THE WAY CHAMPION ROSTERS ARE BUILT...I'D LIKE TO PAY 5 GUYS A LOT, 3 GUYS WELL, AND FILL THE BENCH WITH BARGAINS LIKE THESE.
*I BOLDED GUYS THAT I FIND A COMBINATION OF POSSIBLE, INTRIGUING, AND MAYBE NICE SURPRISES THAT MAKE WELTMAN EXEC OF THEY YEAR. THESE DO NOT REPLACE THE NEED TO FIND A GREAT SCORING LEAD GUARD AND A GREAT STARTING CENTER...they just enhance the core.

Also...someone send help...RealGM is clearly becoming a problem for me

I'm all for Marvin Bagley Jr and Chris Paul

[basketballRob]

The effect he's had on the team the last few years. It would have to make sense.

We don't have his replacement on this team who is currently starting Caliber. Who could replace him via trade that fits the timeline?

I'd think about Suggs $35m for Cam Johnson $20m. In a 3-way Cole, $13m for Simons $27m. We may need to add some draft compensation.

Brooklyn has cap space, and they could let Suggs take most of next year off to get his knee right.

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Ok...NOW that you've heard the terrible idea - it's okay to hate trading Suggs

Cam and Simons would get you 6-7 threes per game. Then, we'd still have a bunch of assets to make other moves.

I'm just worried about all that money relying on Suggs' health.

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[Skybox]

What'd they say about Luka?

I really have no sincere interest in trading Suggs, but you've got to keep powerful options on the table...His impact goes way beyond his stats but when fans start overstating it, it becomes outrageous. There are MANY more impactful players out there, some are making less and doing more. Some are actual PGs.

You also have to put team first and maybe consider that AB might presently be 70% of Suggs (which isn't Suggs but it's nice) and Cory freakin' Joseph is our starting PG in a playoff series against the world champs.

Paolo is really the only one I just won't discuss outside of maybe 5 players in the NBA, Franz would have to be an absolute home run, Suggs would have to be an equivalent talent with double the offensive output...

I'd like to keep AB, TdS, and possibly Caleb because the return is unlikely to match the value to us.

Isaac - I'm back on the fence because he very honestly addressed the weight gain thing and acknowledged that it was a mistake that he could undo. He could still be very impactful off the bench...he might yet return to the defensive neutralizer that can be deployed vs 1-4 on the perimeter...and then, chase down the center with a help-side block...I'm on a seesaw with Isaac - ask me tomorrow. There's always some little flash to cling to.

WCJ - His extension is an issue, but he really put up a fight vs Boston. I want an upgraded starter at C...but I'd love to have him off the bench at 4/5. If he's got value to another team that will return us something to boost our backcourt offense...done

The rest are available, imo, very available.

Guys I'd GIVE away...
KCP - he's actually a good player, but a bad signing for ORL, I'd really like to have that $23m x 3 back to apply to a team need
Cole - doesn't matter, he's expiring, so I'd be happy to include him in a package, but happier to send out something with more guaranteed money
Goga - kind of done. Coach obviously doesn't have any faith in him. Best to move him out.
Jett -probably have to be Weltman's worst move...then, compound it with the "he's agreed to develop in the G League for a season" masterstroke Just an expiring filler now, imo...however, I wouldn't be stunned if some other team "unlocks" him into a sustainable rotation sniper.

Wcj s extension is NOT an issue, why do people keep saying that?
He ll only make 10% of the cap, this is nothing for a starting C, that can play our switch defense scheme.

Problem with Carter isn’t that he’s 10% of the cap on his extension.

Problem with Carter is that he’s a backup big pretending to be a starting Center at 10% of the cap.

If Paolo Banchero is playing 40mpg you need better rebounding and rim protection long term.

Our Center position, collectively, is a financial mess...I'd rather have ONE complete player for $25m and a couple of 5-10 minute vet min guys than the jumbled mess we have...3 guys that are each pretty good, but none really good enough to be a competitive starter. Goga's $9m is a total waste if he's only a factor during WCJ's injury breaks. Moe doesn't play adequate defense or rebound like a guy his size - he's never averaged 5 rpg in a single season!
We all love his vibe and his feisty energy and his scoring off the bench...but he's a problem at $11m for this roster. These guys could be replaced with Tristan Thompson or Mason Plumlee, cumulatively, for what Gary Harris makes. WCJ is our best -but he's not good enough...$18m for a starting C is fine but as VFX said, he's not a starting quality Center often enough. I love Moe and just wish he'd defend better or find a way to rebound like a 6'11, 245 lb guy with an obvious mean streak should. You could probably justify Moe's offense at $11m if you're pairing him with Isaac's defense (again, compromising and accomodating both incomplete players)..but, most of Goga's could go towards a better starter, with vet min left over for some hard-working banger who knows his role.

[VFX]

Wcj s extension is NOT an issue, why do people keep saying that?
He ll only make 10% of the cap, this is nothing for a starting C, that can play our switch defense scheme.

Problem with Carter isn’t that he’s 10% of the cap on his extension.

Problem with Carter is that he’s a backup big pretending to be a starting Center at 10% of the cap.

If Paolo Banchero is playing 40mpg you need better rebounding and rim protection long term.

Our Center position, collectively, is a financial mess...I'd rather have ONE complete player for $25m and a couple of 5-10 minute vet min guys than the jumbled mess we have...3 guys that are each pretty good, but none really good enough to be a competitive starter. Goga's $9m is a total waste if he's only a factor during WCJ's injury breaks. Moe doesn't play adequate defense or rebound like a guy his size - he's never averaged 5 rpg in a single season!
We all love his vibe and his feisty energy and his scoring off the bench...but he's a problem at $11m for this roster. These guys could be replaced with Tristan Thompson or Mason Plumlee, cumulatively, for what Gary Harris makes. WCJ is our best -but he's not good enough...$18m for a starting C is fine but as VFX said, he's not a starting quality Center often enough. I love Moe and just wish he'd defend better or find a way to rebound like a 6'11, 245 lb guy with an obvious mean streak should. You could probably justify Moe's offense at $11m if you're pairing him with Isaac's defense (again, compromising and accomodating both incomplete players)..but, most of Goga's could go towards a better starter, with vet min left over for some hard-working banger who knows his role.

Center and Point guard are the obvious positions that need to be upgraded at the expense of 1-2 consolidating moves. They can’t just draft one and pray he ends up as a better starter. The timeline is past that.

Moving some combination of Carter+ picks + AB+ KCP gets you potentially BOTH positions filled, but it’s tricky because teams have to find value in those specific assets.

Carter isn’t good enough. Goga is better for what we need, but ultimately he’s just a very good backup Center. Issue is that Moe Wagner won’t and shouldn’t be moved for a number of reasons. His offense is just too valuable for the second unit that just isn’t reliable AND he’s Franz’ brother, which actually matters more than it should. His contract should be re-negotiated though.

Magic are cooking if they can upgrade both spots and get off some money.

[Skybox]

Problem with Carter isn’t that he’s 10% of the cap on his extension.

Problem with Carter is that he’s a backup big pretending to be a starting Center at 10% of the cap.

If Paolo Banchero is playing 40mpg you need better rebounding and rim protection long term.

Our Center position, collectively, is a financial mess...I'd rather have ONE complete player for $25m and a couple of 5-10 minute vet min guys than the jumbled mess we have...3 guys that are each pretty good, but none really good enough to be a competitive starter. Goga's $9m is a total waste if he's only a factor during WCJ's injury breaks. Moe doesn't play adequate defense or rebound like a guy his size - he's never averaged 5 rpg in a single season!
We all love his vibe and his feisty energy and his scoring off the bench...but he's a problem at $11m for this roster. These guys could be replaced with Tristan Thompson or Mason Plumlee, cumulatively, for what Gary Harris makes. WCJ is our best -but he's not good enough...$18m for a starting C is fine but as VFX said, he's not a starting quality Center often enough. I love Moe and just wish he'd defend better or find a way to rebound like a 6'11, 245 lb guy with an obvious mean streak should. You could probably justify Moe's offense at $11m if you're pairing him with Isaac's defense (again, compromising and accomodating both incomplete players)..but, most of Goga's could go towards a better starter, with vet min left over for some hard-working banger who knows his role.

Center and Point guard are the obvious positions that need to be upgraded at the expense of 1-2 consolidating moves. They can’t just draft one and pray he ends up as a better starter. The timeline is past that.

Moving some combination of Carter+ picks + AB+ KCP gets you potentially BOTH positions filled, but it’s tricky because teams have to find value in those specific assets.

Carter isn’t good enough. Goga is better for what we need, but ultimately he’s just a very good backup Center. Issue is that Moe Wagner won’t and shouldn’t be moved for a number of reasons. His offense is just too valuable for the second unit that just isn’t reliable AND he’s Franz’ brother, which actually matters more than it should. His contract should be re-negotiated though.

Magic are cooking if they can upgrade both spots and get off some money.

Agree...I've definitely advocated for declining Moe's one year TO at $11m and I suggest 3 more guaranteed years at $8m each (front loaded, if possible). Also consider that he'll spend half of the first year rehabbing his torn ACL, so it's not exactly mugging him in a dark alley. We all like Goga, but how much better is he than Tristan Thompson at $2m or Mason Plumlee at $2m? Goga may be better, but not 4.5x more valuable and if you're the best 3rd string C in the NBA, CONGRATULATIONS...You get....$2.5m. Just bad cap management...unless the mastermind sells him off as someone else's underpaid starter-while still being the same guy...it's not necessarily fair, it's more about salary for roles than for guys.

[JF5]

I like Suggs, but his injury history would make me think twice about trading him.

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The effect he's had on the team the last few years. It would have to make sense.

We don't have his replacement on this team who is currently starting Caliber. Who could replace him via trade that fits the timeline?

I'd think about Suggs $35m for Cam Johnson $20m. In a 3-way Cole, $13m for Simons $27m. We may need to add some draft compensation.

Brooklyn has cap space, and they could let Suggs take most of next year off to get his knee right.

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Cam Johnson is a 6th Man and is 29 years old. Decent to average good defender at times. The issue is you already have KCP. There isn't really any reason to add Johnson for that reason.

This team needs more Guard scoring/shooting/playmaking. Johnson is an SF/PF. Also, Tristan Da Silva is a similar player to him too and is cheaper. Since Franz and Paolo take so many minutes at the forward spot. It makes sense to keep a cheaper player who can play 10-15 minutes.

With Johnson and salary you'd have to cut into your star players minutes to justify the addition.

[Skybox]

Free Agents of interest to consider filling out our roster shrewdly & inexpensively (role players)...
Marvin Bagley ready for a $5-7m dollar deal? needs another look,imo
Davion Mitchell...RFA-tearing it up in MIA
Bobby Portis ...player option for $13.4m, solid solid 2-way vet and tough guy
Al Horford ...he's going to retire or re-up but he's still formidable and smart
D'Angelo Russell so much talent, so many questions
Cam Payne
Ziaire Williams...failure to launch, but still only 23yo- vet min experiment that could pay?
Andre Drummond...player option for $5m. Ready to eject from PHI? Limited all-around but among the best rebounders EVER
Guerschon Yabusele...big & physical, flopped then excelled with french national team and had a solid year in PHI
Gary Trent Jr ...took a huge pay cut to play in MIL and we know he can shoot it, some VERY bad moments in playoffs might mean a fresh start
Tre Jones ...similar efficiency but not as impressive as his brother Tyus...shot it well from 3 this year, but not historically-is he better than CoJo?
Ty Jerome...nuff said...among the most desirable FA's but no one has $$$ and he's not worth backing up the Brinks truck
Tristan Thompson...vet min, super solid old...this is what a 3rd string C is supposed to look like and be paid like. Example of an old $3m guy that could start for us...meanwhile, we have $40m tied up in C spot and one is too small and unreliable, one doesn't play D, and one looks lost
Tim Hardaway Jr...can DET afford Beasley's big raise, retaining Schroder AND not completely low-ball THJ? Should they? Maybe hunting bigger game
Dennis Schroder...if our Germans approve of him, it should have been a no-brainer last summer. DET maybe investing elsewehere with Ivey back
Clint Capela...he'd be our best Center, rapidly depreciating? Is he ready for a large cut in pay for a new opportunity? Will he just rescue LAL for vet min?
Caris Levert...formidable scorer on the downhill, is he ready to take a role player salary? He HAS scored 20ppg and HAS pitched 5+apg and - Michigan
Tre Mann...RFA, very intriguing stats and physical profile...is he capable of bigger role? is he a PG? does he defend? How much will he command?
Seth Curry...single tool player, has been well over 40% from 3 nearly every year...45% or higher FIVE TIMES...vet min, defenseless, too small?
Malcolm Brogdon...UFA, ready for a big pay cut? What happened to this guy-he vanished? If injuries aren't too big an issue - tremendous vet combo G
DeAndre Jordan...long in the tooth, vet min? Can still put up points and especially rebounds - huge throwback C to give you 10-15 mpg
Joe Ingles...only played in 18 games in MIN, is he toast or just buried on a stacked team...if he can play, I'd love him back, ultra BBIQ & mentor
Bones Hyland...so much talent, so many questions
Ajay Mitchell...OKC is so stacked, he may just be buried and they can't give him a raise, just 23yo...I liked his draft profile, 6'5 PG that can shoot
Vasilije Micic...euro whiz PG passing phenom that has done nothing in his short NBA career...why?
Tyus Jones...took a massive pay cut to start for goofy PHX...what's next? and how much? Would be MUCH better than CoJo off bench, but not starter
Monte Morris...same as Tyus...what happened? PG who can shoot
Mason Plumlee...budget big man...again, you're 3rd string C should be a heady vet min guy. Plumlee is older, but tough and a very good passer
Trey Lyles...solid, versatile big man...only 29, is he ready to be a vet min rotation guy on a good young team?
Spencer Dinwiddie...31yo, big PG, has had many high points in his career, both scoring and assists, good defender, could easily start for ORL at PG
Steven Adams...massive, tough, elite offensive rebounder, gets around the MLE...not sure HOU would let him go...would be a great get in many ways
Santi Aldama...RFA, 7', slim, good 3pt shooter, could he be an undiscovered gem in the wrong place...maybe ready for a change of venue?
Bruce Brown...he was never THAT great, does he understand that he was intentionally overpaid and ready for a vet min? better Harris?
Mo Bamba...laugh all you want, 3rd string C, vet min, shot blocker that could, conceivably make 5 3pt shots if left open...end of the bench, high upside
Chris Paul...what does he want? where does he want to be? I'd even consider giving him as many minutes as he can handle...no question he improves ORL, just a matter of how much he's got in the tank. Certainly worth making a friendly call...I expect him to stay in SAS, but Fox

NONE OF THESE ARE SAVIORS...THE IDEA IS THAT WE REWORK OUR WHOLE ROSTER AND UNLOAD HIGH-SALARY "OK" GUYS WITH VERY LOW SALARY "OK" GUYS. THAT'S THE WAY CHAMPION ROSTERS ARE BUILT...I'D LIKE TO PAY 5 GUYS A LOT, 3 GUYS WELL, AND FILL THE BENCH WITH BARGAINS LIKE THESE.
*I BOLDED GUYS THAT I FIND A COMBINATION OF POSSIBLE, INTRIGUING, AND MAYBE NICE SURPRISES THAT MAKE WELTMAN EXEC OF THEY YEAR. THESE DO NOT REPLACE THE NEED TO FIND A GREAT SCORING LEAD GUARD AND A GREAT STARTING CENTER...they just enhance the core.

Also...someone send help...RealGM is clearly becoming a problem for me

I'm all for Marvin Bagley Jr and Chris Paul

Cheapskate!

That could be a total makeover without even spending the whole MLE, if we are a desirable destination.

[eyriq]

Okay I think I get it now. We trade for White or Reeves we offer them an extension limited to 140% of the last year of their current contract. They decline and enter unrestricted free agency. Because we have their bird rights we can offer them up to the max contract that they would be eligible for in the open market but we can offer 8% raises and an extra year

[BadMofoPimp]

Bagley is horrid on defense. Can score some, but is still a 10mpg player. Only take him if he goes for the minimum.

[RookieStar]

Look.. i kept sayingnibwas on the Bagley/Luka for#1 pick in that draft... and im the resident Duke homer... but seriously???

What will Bagley even do for us? He is an elite secound jumper but thats it.

[basketballRob]

Look.. i kept sayingnibwas on the Bagley/Luka for#1 pick in that draft... and im the resident Duke homer... but seriously???

What will Bagley even do for us? He is an elite secound jumper but thats it.

He's terrible

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[Skybox]

Look.. i kept sayingnibwas on the Bagley/Luka for#1 pick in that draft... and im the resident Duke homer... but seriously???

What will Bagley even do for us? He is an elite secound jumper but thats it.

Big active body for, say $4 or $5m, with occasional scoring to replace some of the guys on our bench making 2 or 3x that to also just eat some minutes…we’re too deep with barely consequential players making too much.

Similar analysis at another spot…do we all agree that $7.5m is too much for Gary?

Well, what does KCP do so much better than Gary ? They’re both very good defenders and “selective” threats from 3…KCP is better, but still, at the end of the day, barely makes a dent in the offense. I’m always critical of Gary, but he had to see the KCP “savior” $22m signing in our biggest summer of opportunity and just be wondering “why?”. How would their scoring compare with the same minutes…is KCP really THAT MUCH more impactful defensively?…Harris is a dawg on POA.

That’s not even factoring what Suggs & AB do …and, more importantly, don’t do

Point re: Bagley is that we must learn to pay the right amount for the ROLE, not just what the guy is worth. We’re not “targeting” Bagley, so much as we’re targeting replacing Goga, for example, with a guy at half his price without seeing our rotation crumble…the money we save in that inconsequential sacrifice gets thrown onto the pile we need for the more important role of PG…basically, there is no place for the middle class anymore and we have a bunch of mid-level executives filling the spots that can be filled by robots

[basketballRob]

Look.. i kept sayingnibwas on the Bagley/Luka for#1 pick in that draft... and im the resident Duke homer... but seriously???

What will Bagley even do for us? He is an elite secound jumper but thats it.

Big active body for, say $4 or $5m, with occasional scoring to replace some of the guys on our bench making 2 or 3x that to also just eat some minutes…we’re too deep with barely consequential players making too much.

Similar analysis at another spot…do we all agree that $7.5m is too much for Gary?

Well, what does KCP do so much better than Gary ? They’re both very good defenders and “selective” threats from 3…KCP is better, but still, at the end of the day, barely makes a dent in the offense. I’m always critical of Gary, but he had to see the KCP “savior” $22m signing in our biggest summer of opportunity and just be wondering “why?”. How would their scoring compare with the same minutes…is KCP really THAT MUCH more impactful defensively?…Harris is a dawg on POA.

That’s not even factoring what Suggs & AB do …and, more importantly, don’t do

Point re: Bagley is that we must learn to pay the right amount for the ROLE, not just what the guy is worth. We’re not “targeting” Bagley, so much as we’re targeting replacing Goga, for example, with a guy at half his price without seeing our rotation crumble…the money we save in that inconsequential sacrifice gets thrown onto the pile we need for the more important role of PG…basically, there is no place for the middle class anymore and we have a bunch of mid-level executives filling the spots that can be filled by robots

Bagley isn't a rotation player. Remember Wiseman and Bagley in Detroit? They were the front court with no brain. Bagley scored a couple points in blowout losses, and suddenly, a few people are high on him. He isn't the right kind of veteran for us.

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[Skybox]

Look.. i kept sayingnibwas on the Bagley/Luka for#1 pick in that draft... and im the resident Duke homer... but seriously???

What will Bagley even do for us? He is an elite secound jumper but thats it.

Big active body for, say $4 or $5m, with occasional scoring to replace some of the guys on our bench making 2 or 3x that to also just eat some minutes…we’re too deep with barely consequential players making too much.

Similar analysis at another spot…do we all agree that $7.5m is too much for Gary?

Well, what does KCP do so much better than Gary ? They’re both very good defenders and “selective” threats from 3…KCP is better, but still, at the end of the day, barely makes a dent in the offense. I’m always critical of Gary, but he had to see the KCP “savior” $22m signing in our biggest summer of opportunity and just be wondering “why?”. How would their scoring compare with the same minutes…is KCP really THAT MUCH more impactful defensively?…Harris is a dawg on POA.

That’s not even factoring what Suggs & AB do …and, more importantly, don’t do

Point re: Bagley is that we must learn to pay the right amount for the ROLE, not just what the guy is worth. We’re not “targeting” Bagley, so much as we’re targeting replacing Goga, for example, with a guy at half his price without seeing our rotation crumble…the money we save in that inconsequential sacrifice gets thrown onto the pile we need for the more important role of PG…basically, there is no place for the middle class anymore and we have a bunch of mid-level executives filling the spots that can be filled by robots

Bagley isn't a rotation player. Remember Wiseman and Bagley in Detroit? They were the front court with no brain. Bagley scored a couple points in blowout losses, and suddenly, a few people are high on him.

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How did Goga look in his 5 mins in the playoffs…I’d rather pay $4m for that lost look in a 7’ guy’s eyes. Foul someone, get 2 rebounds and go sit down. I don’t know how bad Bagley really is but make it Plumlee or Tristan Thompson or even Bamba for$2m…the point is the same. I’d be fine with Goga for the $3m he’s worth, not the $9m he makes.

If Wiseman gets healthy, he could be a good bargain …lob threat, super long…could Mose get him to improve 25% with a little added wisdom and self-analysis? We’re in the bargain bin now…the stakes aren’t that high.

[basketballRob]

Big active body for, say $4 or $5m, with occasional scoring to replace some of the guys on our bench making 2 or 3x that to also just eat some minutes…we’re too deep with barely consequential players making too much.

Similar analysis at another spot…do we all agree that $7.5m is too much for Gary?

Well, what does KCP do so much better than Gary ? They’re both very good defenders and “selective” threats from 3…KCP is better, but still, at the end of the day, barely makes a dent in the offense. I’m always critical of Gary, but he had to see the KCP “savior” $22m signing in our biggest summer of opportunity and just be wondering “why?”. How would their scoring compare with the same minutes…is KCP really THAT MUCH more impactful defensively?…Harris is a dawg on POA.

That’s not even factoring what Suggs & AB do …and, more importantly, don’t do

Point re: Bagley is that we must learn to pay the right amount for the ROLE, not just what the guy is worth. We’re not “targeting” Bagley, so much as we’re targeting replacing Goga, for example, with a guy at half his price without seeing our rotation crumble…the money we save in that inconsequential sacrifice gets thrown onto the pile we need for the more important role of PG…basically, there is no place for the middle class anymore and we have a bunch of mid-level executives filling the spots that can be filled by robots

Bagley isn't a rotation player. Remember Wiseman and Bagley in Detroit? They were the front court with no brain. Bagley scored a couple points in blowout losses, and suddenly, a few people are high on him.

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How did Goga look in his 5 mins in the playoffs…I’d rather pay $4m for that lost look in a 7’ guy’s eyes. Foul someone, get 2 rebounds and go sit down. I don’t know how bad Bagley really is but make it Plumlee or Tristan Thompson or even Bamba for$2m…the point is the same. I’d be fine with Goga for the $3m he’s worth, not the $9m he makes.

If Wiseman gets healthy, he could be a good bargain …lob threat, super long…could Mose get him to improve 25% with a little added wisdom and self-analysis? We’re in the bargain bin now…the stakes aren’t that high.

We need a center that can play if Wendell goes down. Bagley and Wismen aren't good. Isaac can't start at center.

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[yoyojw17]

Wcj s extension is NOT an issue, why do people keep saying that?
He ll only make 10% of the cap, this is nothing for a starting C, that can play our switch defense scheme.

Problem with Carter isn’t that he’s 10% of the cap on his extension.

Problem with Carter is that he’s a backup big pretending to be a starting Center at 10% of the cap.

If Paolo Banchero is playing 40mpg you need better rebounding and rim protection long term.

Our Center position, collectively, is a financial mess...I'd rather have ONE complete player for $25m and a couple of 5-10 minute vet min guys than the jumbled mess we have...3 guys that are each pretty good, but none really good enough to be a competitive starter. Goga's $9m is a total waste if he's only a factor during WCJ's injury breaks. Moe doesn't play adequate defense or rebound like a guy his size - he's never averaged 5 rpg in a single season!
We all love his vibe and his feisty energy and his scoring off the bench...but he's a problem at $11m for this roster. These guys could be replaced with Tristan Thompson or Mason Plumlee, cumulatively, for what Gary Harris makes. WCJ is our best -but he's not good enough...$18m for a starting C is fine but as VFX said, he's not a starting quality Center often enough. I love Moe and just wish he'd defend better or find a way to rebound like a 6'11, 245 lb guy with an obvious mean streak should. You could probably justify Moe's offense at $11m if you're pairing him with Isaac's defense (again, compromising and accomodating both incomplete players)..but, most of Goga's could go towards a better starter, with vet min left over for some hard-working banger who knows his role.

WE MISSED MOE A LOT. He might not have been the best defender... but he played decent team defense. Had a decent defensive rating for a while not. Net rating with the offensive rating is pretty darn impressive over the years as a magic player as well.

He scores "only" 13 pnt a game but in "ONLY" 18 min and with great efficiency.

He's probably not going anywhere... unless it's for something of need.

JI coming back "physically" ready to play at 230 lb ... hopefully with the same durability will help solidify our bigs off the bench. Tristan will be another year under his belt and be a Wagner "LITE LITE" in that position. Caleb seems to have made a step forward. AB has another year of development under his belt. and then we can see what other moves are made... or growth in players like Jett Howard.

Players that i do think will be in the hot seat this summer are Cole and Gary.... and any combination of other players can be gotten if the right deal comes available.

This will be a great offseason. and i think we are still well on the right path!

[Optimus_Steel]

Problem with Carter isn’t that he’s 10% of the cap on his extension.

Problem with Carter is that he’s a backup big pretending to be a starting Center at 10% of the cap.

If Paolo Banchero is playing 40mpg you need better rebounding and rim protection long term.

Our Center position, collectively, is a financial mess...I'd rather have ONE complete player for $25m and a couple of 5-10 minute vet min guys than the jumbled mess we have...3 guys that are each pretty good, but none really good enough to be a competitive starter. Goga's $9m is a total waste if he's only a factor during WCJ's injury breaks. Moe doesn't play adequate defense or rebound like a guy his size - he's never averaged 5 rpg in a single season!
We all love his vibe and his feisty energy and his scoring off the bench...but he's a problem at $11m for this roster. These guys could be replaced with Tristan Thompson or Mason Plumlee, cumulatively, for what Gary Harris makes. WCJ is our best -but he's not good enough...$18m for a starting C is fine but as VFX said, he's not a starting quality Center often enough. I love Moe and just wish he'd defend better or find a way to rebound like a 6'11, 245 lb guy with an obvious mean streak should. You could probably justify Moe's offense at $11m if you're pairing him with Isaac's defense (again, compromising and accomodating both incomplete players)..but, most of Goga's could go towards a better starter, with vet min left over for some hard-working banger who knows his role.

WE MISSED MOE A LOT. He might not have been the best defender... but he played decent team defense. Had a decent defensive rating for a while not. Net rating with the offensive rating is pretty darn impressive over the years as a magic player as well.

He scores "only" 13 pnt a game but in "ONLY" 18 min and with great efficiency.

He's probably not going anywhere... unless it's for something of need.

JI coming back "physically" ready to play at 230 lb ... hopefully with the same durability will help solidify our bigs off the bench. Tristan will be another year under his belt and be a Wagner "LITE LITE" in that position. Caleb seems to have made a step forward. AB has another year of development under his belt. and then we can see what other moves are made... or growth in players like Jett Howard.

Players that i do think will be in the hot seat this summer are Cole and Gary.... and any combination of other players can be gotten if the right deal comes available.

This will be a great offseason. and i think we are still well on the right path!

When Mo got injured I knew that was really tough because he one of the best bench players in the league, gets under people's skin, good team guy, and a very good scorer. Some thought it was not a big deal because he is not a shot blocker and not the best defender but it was clear he was missed significantly. So many fans get fixated on what a player is not the best at instead of seeing the things they do really well.

[yoyojw17]

Our Center position, collectively, is a financial mess...I'd rather have ONE complete player for $25m and a couple of 5-10 minute vet min guys than the jumbled mess we have...3 guys that are each pretty good, but none really good enough to be a competitive starter. Goga's $9m is a total waste if he's only a factor during WCJ's injury breaks. Moe doesn't play adequate defense or rebound like a guy his size - he's never averaged 5 rpg in a single season!
We all love his vibe and his feisty energy and his scoring off the bench...but he's a problem at $11m for this roster. These guys could be replaced with Tristan Thompson or Mason Plumlee, cumulatively, for what Gary Harris makes. WCJ is our best -but he's not good enough...$18m for a starting C is fine but as VFX said, he's not a starting quality Center often enough. I love Moe and just wish he'd defend better or find a way to rebound like a 6'11, 245 lb guy with an obvious mean streak should. You could probably justify Moe's offense at $11m if you're pairing him with Isaac's defense (again, compromising and accomodating both incomplete players)..but, most of Goga's could go towards a better starter, with vet min left over for some hard-working banger who knows his role.

WE MISSED MOE A LOT. He might not have been the best defender... but he played decent team defense. Had a decent defensive rating for a while not. Net rating with the offensive rating is pretty darn impressive over the years as a magic player as well.

He scores "only" 13 pnt a game but in "ONLY" 18 min and with great efficiency.

He's probably not going anywhere... unless it's for something of need.

JI coming back "physically" ready to play at 230 lb ... hopefully with the same durability will help solidify our bigs off the bench. Tristan will be another year under his belt and be a Wagner "LITE LITE" in that position. Caleb seems to have made a step forward. AB has another year of development under his belt. and then we can see what other moves are made... or growth in players like Jett Howard.

Players that i do think will be in the hot seat this summer are Cole and Gary.... and any combination of other players can be gotten if the right deal comes available.

This will be a great offseason. and i think we are still well on the right path!

When Mo got injured I knew that was really tough because he one of the best bench players in the league, gets under people's skin, good team guy, and a very good scorer. Some thought it was not a big deal because he is not a shot blocker and not the best defender but it was clear he was missed significantly. So many fans get fixated on what a player is not the best at instead of seeing the things they do really well.

Agreed. And without his offensive stability ... The energy and grit....The bench lost a looooooot of footing. I was nearly just as pissed when he went down as I was when Paolo and Franz went down.

[VFX]

Bagley isn't a rotation player. Remember Wiseman and Bagley in Detroit? They were the front court with no brain. Bagley scored a couple points in blowout losses, and suddenly, a few people are high on him.

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How did Goga look in his 5 mins in the playoffs…I’d rather pay $4m for that lost look in a 7’ guy’s eyes. Foul someone, get 2 rebounds and go sit down. I don’t know how bad Bagley really is but make it Plumlee or Tristan Thompson or even Bamba for$2m…the point is the same. I’d be fine with Goga for the $3m he’s worth, not the $9m he makes.

If Wiseman gets healthy, he could be a good bargain …lob threat, super long…could Mose get him to improve 25% with a little added wisdom and self-analysis? We’re in the bargain bin now…the stakes aren’t that high.

We need a center that can play if Wendell goes down. Bagley and Wismen aren't good. Isaac can't start at center.

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Or just get a better Center than Wendell that doesn’t miss 20-30 games a season. Problem solved.

[Skybox]

How did Goga look in his 5 mins in the playoffs…I’d rather pay $4m for that lost look in a 7’ guy’s eyes. Foul someone, get 2 rebounds and go sit down. I don’t know how bad Bagley really is but make it Plumlee or Tristan Thompson or even Bamba for$2m…the point is the same. I’d be fine with Goga for the $3m he’s worth, not the $9m he makes.

If Wiseman gets healthy, he could be a good bargain …lob threat, super long…could Mose get him to improve 25% with a little added wisdom and self-analysis? We’re in the bargain bin now…the stakes aren’t that high.

We need a center that can play if Wendell goes down. Bagley and Wismen aren't good. Isaac can't start at center.

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Or just get a better Center than Wendell that doesn’t miss 20-30 games a season. Problem solved.

Beat me to it...healthy Wendell isn't so great as to justify accommodating unreliable Wendell. The reality is that depth is important, but team-building around "what if our starter is hurt" isn't really a realistic thing. You get only 5 guys on the court at once...if you lose a key guy for extended periods - it's going to be profoundly difficult to overcome (we did great this year, considering). If you lose a key guy for the season, you're probably having to accept your ceiling is lower. BOS has a great bench, but they are not deep and couldn't use their bench to compensate for very long if any starters were out for extended periods...that's just life as a contender with a salary cap...especially when the playoffs arrive and rotations tighten up.

I've got NOOO problem keeping Mo - preferably at $8m or 9m, but then Goga's got to go...his $9m tab is the big mistake. Tristan Thompson is just a name...he's very old and never leaving CLE at this point. Plumlee, Bagley, Wiseman, Bamba - don't bother dissecting them - they're just bodies for a few minutes. If your injuries put the third stringer into the regular rotation, you're already dead...If we got to that desperate point, you try Paolo in some wild offensive mismatch experiment or even a thinned-down Isaac as a band-aid...but at that point it's just a fun hail mary, see you next year.