Defense only: Walt Frazier vs Dennis Johnson vs Gary Payton

AStark1991 · Post #1 » by **AStark1991** » Mon May 5, 2025 1:34 pm

These are the guys that I consider to be the top 3 greatest defenders of all-time at the Point Guard position. How would you rank them in terms of individual defensive impact? Personally I don’t think there’s any wrong answer here and truly believe that a solid case can be made for each guy being the best. Of the three Clyde was the best pick-pocketer, DJ was the most athletic and best shot blocker, and GP was the best at man to man on-ball defense. But as for my ranking, I’ll go with DJ at 1, GP at 2, Clyde at 3.

Post #2 » by **penbeast0** » Mon May 5, 2025 2:13 pm

I think you are missing Jason Kidd who I rank first (though Kidd is overrated offensively) but of the 3, I'd go Frazier. Best numbers in terms of shutting opposing PGs efficiency down if I remember the stat guys posts here, plus very high IQ defender playing mind games and quick hands that could get steals without giving up blowbys. DJ was at his best defensively in Seattle where he was mainly a two next to Gus Williams but in Boston as a full time PG, he was very good against the big guards though the little jet types could outquick him. Payton (and Frazier) had the best rep and the best nickname plus all the trash talking getting into guys heads could be disruptive. Can't go wrong with any of them defensively.

AStark1991 · Post #3 » by **AStark1991** » Mon May 5, 2025 2:16 pm

penbeast0 wrote:I think you are missing Jason Kidd who I rank first (though Kidd is overrated offensively) but of the 3, I'd go Frazier. Best numbers in terms of shutting opposing PGs efficiency down if I remember the stat guys posts here, plus very high IQ defender playing mind games and quick hands that could get steals without giving up blowbys. DJ was at his best defensively in Seattle where he was mainly a two next to Gus Williams but in Boston as a full time PG, he was very good against the big guards though the little jet types could outquick him. Payton (and Frazier) had the best rep and the best nickname plus all the trash talking getting into guys heads could be disruptive. Can't go wrong with any of them defensively.

Kidd and Jrue Holiday are the two others that round out my top 5.

Post #4 » by **tsherkin** » Mon May 5, 2025 2:55 pm

penbeast0 wrote:I think you are missing Jason Kidd who I rank first (though Kidd is overrated offensively) but of the 3, I'd go Frazier. Best numbers in terms of shutting opposing PGs efficiency down if I remember the stat guys posts here, plus very high IQ defender playing mind games and quick hands that could get steals without giving up blowbys. DJ was at his best defensively in Seattle where he was mainly a two next to Gus Williams but in Boston as a full time PG, he was very good against the big guards though the little jet types could outquick him. Payton (and Frazier) had the best rep and the best nickname plus all the trash talking getting into guys heads could be disruptive. Can't go wrong with any of them defensively.

Kidd's another quality mention. He was a better defensive player than offensive player, but got more of his kudos as a focal playmaker. Kidd was brilliant, even as an older guy on Dallas (the second time around).

I think I'd also go with Frazier as #1, but as you say, all of these guys would be excellent choices.