NBA Trade Thread #12

[ChettheJet]

Everybody seems to fixate on the FRP for Lonzo and so easily glosses over the long term money dragging behind it. I'd rather keep Lonzo and some flexibility and pass on the kid at #20 who might be could be maybe not and get saddled with somebody for 2-3 years who just hangs around. The Bulls may not have playing time for #12 much less #20. Resign Tre Jones and stop looking for a play in miracle 4 years from now.

Name the team(s) interested in Vucevic for somebody worth putting in a red uniform

[sco]

Everybody seems to fixate on the FRP for Lonzo and so easily glosses over the long term money dragging behind it. I'd rather keep Lonzo and some flexibility and pass on the kid at #20 who might be could be maybe not and get saddled with somebody for 2-3 years who just hangs around. The Bulls may not have playing time for #12 much less #20. Resign Tre Jones and stop looking for a play in miracle 4 years from now.

Name the team(s) interested in Vucevic for somebody worth putting in a red uniform

I don't think there are any teams out there that both would have an interest in him and the contracts/cap space to take him this offseason. I don't think anyone is sending back a useful asset...no way we're getting a 1st without taking back a bad contract.

[Infinity2152]

Don't think getting much for Vuc should be an issue. Would be much more of an issue if Collins hadn't stepped up so much. At this point, would be fine with trading Vuc for expiring forward(s) without any draft compensation, or very little. Addition by subtraction, there are quite a few teams with centers hitting FA and those teams have extra forwards. When teams can't get the centers they want this summer (Reid, Turner, Mark Williams) Vucevic (and/or Collins) will look more attractive if the cost is just 1 or 2 decent expiring forwards, imo.

Guys who should be here next year: Giddey, Matas, Ball, Smith, Tre Jones, Julian Phillips (cheap), Coby unless a great deal comes thru

Guys who could easily go, may be better to let expire: Collins, Huerter, Terry, Vucevic, Ayo Doesn't hurt to keep for a year

Guys who really need to go: Pat Williams, Jevon Carter Williams we need to try to rehab his value

Giddey, Ball, Jones may seem extra, but Ball has health risks and Jones can play on the court with either Ball or Giddey anyway. And Ball and Giddey can play together effectively.

[2weekswithpay]

Everybody seems to fixate on the FRP for Lonzo and so easily glosses over the long term money dragging behind it. I'd rather keep Lonzo and some flexibility and pass on the kid at #20 who might be could be maybe not and get saddled with somebody for 2-3 years who just hangs around. The Bulls may not have playing time for #12 much less #20. Resign Tre Jones and stop looking for a play in miracle 4 years from now.

Name the team(s) interested in Vucevic for somebody worth putting in a red uniform

Marcus Smart's contract expires after 2025-26, which lines up with the rest of our team. Vuc, Huerter, Zach Collin etc. There is no excuse to pass up on this to keep Lonzo.

[2weekswithpay]

Lonzo has played 70 games in 4 seasons. Trading him for Smart + a 2025 FRP is a no brainer deal.

Please explain the upside of saying no to this?

We don't have any money to spend this offseason besides the MLE. We didn't gain any financial flexibility by saying no.

[Infinity2152]

That Ball for Smart and a first sounds incomplete. Ball's at $10 mill, Smart's at $20 mill. We didn't have $10 mill in cap space, other pieces had to be included.

If the deal was just Ball for Smart and a first, sure, no brainer. Looking at the Bulls cap, seems likely Ayo or Tre Jones would be included to make the salaries close to match. Smart ended up traded in a multi-team trade. Grizzlies ended up with Bagley (expiring), Johnny Davis (expiring), 2 second round picks and got rid of Jake Laravia. Doubt they were just asking for Ball to get that type of package. My bet is Ayo and/or second round picks were included.

[2weekswithpay]

That Ball for Smart and a first sounds incomplete. Ball's at $10 mill, Smart's at $20 mill. We didn't have $10 mill in cap space, other pieces had to be included.

If the deal was just Ball for Smart and a first, sure, no brainer. Looking at the Bulls cap, seems likely Ayo or Tre Jones would be included to make the salaries close to match. Smart ended up traded in a multi-team trade. Grizzlies ended up with Bagley (expiring), Johnny Davis (expiring), 2 second round picks and got rid of Jake Laravia. Doubt they were just asking for Ball to get that type of package. My bet is Ayo and/or second round picks were included.

Lonzo made 21M this season.

[Donkedave]

That Ball for Smart and a first sounds incomplete. Ball's at $10 mill, Smart's at $20 mill. We didn't have $10 mill in cap space, other pieces had to be included.

If the deal was just Ball for Smart and a first, sure, no brainer. Looking at the Bulls cap, seems likely Ayo or Tre Jones would be included to make the salaries close to match. Smart ended up traded in a multi-team trade. Grizzlies ended up with Bagley (expiring), Johnny Davis (expiring), 2 second round picks and got rid of Jake Laravia. Doubt they were just asking for Ball to get that type of package. My bet is Ayo and/or second round picks were included.

It would have to be a draft night trade(or before) for a 1 for 1 trade. Not saying it’s a smart move or bad for that matter. Wizards would be $25k under tax.

[burlydee]

Honestly that non-deal with Ball may go down as AKs worst move. They had actually rehabbed someone's value to the point to actually get something for him. And they blew it. They absolutely blew it.

Maybe Memphis still has interest. Not hard to see why they would want him as a back up guard. But with Scotty Pippen Jr's emergency, maybe they don't think they need another backup.

[WesPeace]

Bigger trade Idea :
White, Smith, Terry to OKC for Dort, Dieng and 1st round #24, seems like a solid deal for both teams. OKC needs more shooting, gets it with White, Terry replaces Dort somehow for defense. Billy doesnt play Smith, Dieng doesnt play much for OKC.

Dort provides good fit alongside Giddey in backcourt with efficient 3pt shot and strong D for 1-2 spots,even SF spot. He is also only 26 yrs old and expiring. He shouldnt cost fortune to re-sign, IF..

Follow up with Vucevic for Gafford or Vucevic for Portis, draft your guys and let the evaluation season begin with more defensive lineup.
I heard Gafford will be Lakers target tho, because of Luka connection.

Re-sign Giddey, Jones.. draft someone of Essengue, CMB, Fleming at #12 and someone like Riley or Clifford or Lendeburg at #24.. Beringer I think will be drafted just in between 15 - 23?!

Giddey, Dort, Huerter, Buzelis, Gafford
Jones, Ayo, Ball, Williams, Phillips, Dieng, Collins
Plus both rookies and one 2 way guy..

[Dan Z]

Bigger trade Idea :
White, Smith, Terry to OKC for Dort, Dieng and 1st round #24, seems like a solid deal for both teams. OKC needs more shooting, gets it with White, Terry replaces Dort somehow for defense. Billy doesnt play Smith, Dieng doesnt play much for OKC.

Dort provides good fit alongside Giddey in backcourt with efficient 3pt shot and strong D for 1-2 spots,even SF spot. He is also only 26 yrs old and expiring. He shouldnt cost fortune to re-sign, IF..

Follow up with Vucevic for Gafford or Vucevic for Portis, draft your guys and let the evaluation season begin with more defensive lineup.
I heard Gafford will be Lakers target tho, because of Luka connection.

Re-sign Giddey, Jones.. draft someone of Essengue, CMB, Fleming at #12 and someone like Riley or Clifford or Lendeburg at #24.. Beringer I think will be drafted just in between 15 - 23?!

Giddey, Dort, Huerter, Buzelis, Gafford
Jones, Ayo, Ball, Williams, Phillips, Dieng, Collins
Plus both rookies and one 2 way guy..

The problem with that Bulls roster is scoring. Giddey will get some points and so will Buzelis and Huerter, but none of them score like Coby can.

The #12 & #24 picks won't help solve that problem either.

[WesPeace]

Bigger trade Idea :
White, Smith, Terry to OKC for Dort, Dieng and 1st round #24, seems like a solid deal for both teams. OKC needs more shooting, gets it with White, Terry replaces Dort somehow for defense. Billy doesnt play Smith, Dieng doesnt play much for OKC.

Dort provides good fit alongside Giddey in backcourt with efficient 3pt shot and strong D for 1-2 spots,even SF spot. He is also only 26 yrs old and expiring. He shouldnt cost fortune to re-sign, IF..

Follow up with Vucevic for Gafford or Vucevic for Portis, draft your guys and let the evaluation season begin with more defensive lineup.
I heard Gafford will be Lakers target tho, because of Luka connection.

Re-sign Giddey, Jones.. draft someone of Essengue, CMB, Fleming at #12 and someone like Riley or Clifford or Lendeburg at #24.. Beringer I think will be drafted just in between 15 - 23?!

Giddey, Dort, Huerter, Buzelis, Gafford
Jones, Ayo, Ball, Williams, Phillips, Dieng, Collins
Plus both rookies and one 2 way guy..

The problem with that Bulls roster is scoring. Giddey will get some points and so will Buzelis and Huerter, but none of them score like Coby can.

The #12 & #24 picks won't help solve that problem either.

I agree - scoring could be a little issue from the start, but also you could eventually cover 38-45pts from White and Vooch, with Dort 10-12, Ball 10-12 and improvements and higher usage for Buzelis, Huerter and others..

[sco]

Bigger trade Idea :
White, Smith, Terry to OKC for Dort, Dieng and 1st round #24, seems like a solid deal for both teams. OKC needs more shooting, gets it with White, Terry replaces Dort somehow for defense. Billy doesnt play Smith, Dieng doesnt play much for OKC.

Dort provides good fit alongside Giddey in backcourt with efficient 3pt shot and strong D for 1-2 spots,even SF spot. He is also only 26 yrs old and expiring. He shouldnt cost fortune to re-sign, IF..

Follow up with Vucevic for Gafford or Vucevic for Portis, draft your guys and let the evaluation season begin with more defensive lineup.
I heard Gafford will be Lakers target tho, because of Luka connection.

Re-sign Giddey, Jones.. draft someone of Essengue, CMB, Fleming at #12 and someone like Riley or Clifford or Lendeburg at #24.. Beringer I think will be drafted just in between 15 - 23?!

Giddey, Dort, Huerter, Buzelis, Gafford
Jones, Ayo, Ball, Williams, Phillips, Dieng, Collins
Plus both rookies and one 2 way guy..

The problem with that Bulls roster is scoring. Giddey will get some points and so will Buzelis and Huerter, but none of them score like Coby can.

The #12 & #24 picks won't help solve that problem either.

I agree - scoring could be a little issue from the start, but also you could eventually cover 38-45pts from White and Vooch, with Dort 10-12, Ball 10-12 and improvements and higher usage for Buzelis, Huerter and others..

I would do the trade. I have also noted that we should deal Smith for value because Billy refuses to play him. I will say that another positive of that ultimate line-up is that it will force more offense through Matas. I'm not saying that he's an allstar, but his development is the key to this team's improvement.

If OKC would take Ball instead of White in that deal, it might work out better for us, but I get that they might not.

[jnrjr79]

Honestly that non-deal with Ball may go down as AKs worst move. They had actually rehabbed someone's value to the point to actually get something for him. And they blew it. They absolutely blew it.

Maybe Memphis still has interest. Not hard to see why they would want him as a back up guard. But with Scotty Pippen Jr's emergency, maybe they don't think they need another backup.

I can't say I agree with this at all. Lonzo on a $10M deal, one year guaranteed, with a team option the following year is an eminently tradeable contract.

[sco]

Honestly that non-deal with Ball may go down as AKs worst move. They had actually rehabbed someone's value to the point to actually get something for him. And they blew it. They absolutely blew it.

Maybe Memphis still has interest. Not hard to see why they would want him as a back up guard. But with Scotty Pippen Jr's emergency, maybe they don't think they need another backup.

I can't say I agree with this at all. Lonzo on a $10M deal, one year guaranteed, with a team option the following year is an eminently tradeable contract.

Yeah, Ball may yet regain his game, and that contract may look great. But Ball is really not durable. His best use case is in the Caruso 20MPG, role and hope to have him in tact for the playoffs...he would have made a difference against MIA. That said, adding 2 non-lotto 1sts to our asset bank to land a star, also has merit. I feel like the "trade for a star" game is more about quantity than quality, as the other FO is just looking to show they got value and it takes years for the picks to show their value, one way or the other, buying the FO time.

[Michael Jackson]

Talk of a Kuminga sign and trade is out there. If we could shift P Will (yeah right unlikely) or Vuc (maybe?) to GSW for him I would do it. Not so much for Kuminga, although he might be able to pan out but just to blow up those guys and get the, out of here. Highly unlikely it is P Will though can’t imagine any team wants him until his last year of contract.

[jnrjr79]

Honestly that non-deal with Ball may go down as AKs worst move. They had actually rehabbed someone's value to the point to actually get something for him. And they blew it. They absolutely blew it.

Maybe Memphis still has interest. Not hard to see why they would want him as a back up guard. But with Scotty Pippen Jr's emergency, maybe they don't think they need another backup.

I can't say I agree with this at all. Lonzo on a $10M deal, one year guaranteed, with a team option the following year is an eminently tradeable contract.

Yeah, Ball may yet regain his game, and that contract may look great. But Ball is really not durable. His best use case is in the Caruso 20MPG, role and hope to have him in tact for the playoffs...he would have made a difference against MIA. That said, adding 2 non-lotto 1sts to our asset bank to land a star, also has merit. I feel like the "trade for a star" game is more about quantity than quality, as the other FO is just looking to show they got value and it takes years for the picks to show their value, one way or the other, buying the FO time.

For sure, but it doesn't seem like 2 non-lotto firsts was available this year. What was available was presumably the package that the Grizzlies sent to the Wiz - Smart and #18, but with two 2nds going back to Memphis. That's not so great in the scheme of things, but given Smart expires after next season, which lines up with the other Bulls expirings, I'd be ok with it.

[jnrjr79]

Talk of a Kuminga sign and trade is out there. If we could shift P Will (yeah right unlikely) or Vuc (maybe?) to GSW for him I would do it. Not so much for Kuminga, although he might be able to pan out but just to blow up those guys and get the, out of here. Highly unlikely it is P Will though can’t imagine any team wants him until his last year of contract.

I have no interest in paying Kuminga, but if it was just for Pat and you're exchanging an underperforming guy for an underperforming guy hoping a change of scenery could help, I could understand it.

I'd have no interest in using Vooch's expiring to take on long-term Kuminga money.

[2weekswithpay]

Honestly that non-deal with Ball may go down as AKs worst move. They had actually rehabbed someone's value to the point to actually get something for him. And they blew it. They absolutely blew it.

Maybe Memphis still has interest. Not hard to see why they would want him as a back up guard. But with Scotty Pippen Jr's emergency, maybe they don't think they need another backup.

I can't say I agree with this at all. Lonzo on a $10M deal, one year guaranteed, with a team option the following year is an eminently tradeable contract.

Tradable, yes, but for what exactly? Are we ever going to get a better return than a single FRP? For us to get a better return than the deal AK passed on, Lonzo would have to stay healthy for a season.

[Infinity2152]

That Ball for Smart and a first sounds incomplete. Ball's at $10 mill, Smart's at $20 mill. We didn't have $10 mill in cap space, other pieces had to be included.

If the deal was just Ball for Smart and a first, sure, no brainer. Looking at the Bulls cap, seems likely Ayo or Tre Jones would be included to make the salaries close to match. Smart ended up traded in a multi-team trade. Grizzlies ended up with Bagley (expiring), Johnny Davis (expiring), 2 second round picks and got rid of Jake Laravia. Doubt they were just asking for Ball to get that type of package. My bet is Ayo and/or second round picks were included.

Lonzo made 21M this season.

Got you. +1 I'd have done the deal straight up Lonzo for Smart and a first and wouldn't have worried about the extra money, because Smart looks to be a good fit with Coby and Giddey anyway. Maybe a great fit. Could it be they were weighing the offer, and a better offer came thru for Memphis? The package Memphis actually received for Smart and a first looks to be worth more than $21 mill expiring Lonzo. If our deal had two seconds going to Memphis, forget it.

Also could be an overreaction to the Pat Williams overpay. Just added $18 mill of bad money to the bill, adding another contract like Smart's hurts our flexibility a lot more. Did we still have Zach on the books at that time?

Do think Ball's value is being under rated. Yes, if he's not healthy 40 games or more, it could be an overpay. But he's a $20-$30 mill player easily when healthy, and worth more than $10 mill even when he plays 15-20 role player minutes. I cannot overemphasize the impact of having Ball on the court. If Smart wasn't such a good defender, I probably wouldn't take that move. Smart could have attitude or off the court issues that come into play that we don't know about, as well.