Mock Off-Season: Toronto Raptors

[Godaddycurse]

There simply is no modeling on Steph/Draymond because those are both 1 of 1's. Barnes might could do the passing part, but he's never going to have Draymond's defensive intelligence or impact.

And of course trying to be Steph just isn't a real thing any team should be asking of much better players than IQ. He's not just the best shooter of all-time, he's made the question forever moot. I mean a guy like Ray Allen just looks like a chump in comparison to him. We are talking about 3's from all angles, from all distances, off the dribble, off the curl, off the catch, off balance, just nobody can approach his effectiveness on these kinds of shots.

Nor the defensive attention even when he doesn't have the ball, his relentless and tireless off-ball movement, his quickness and release.

Just a terrible plan if that is really the plan--I hope its just something they leak to fans because it sounds good, but this is even worth than well Lauri is European and tall so we found our Dirk plan.

Those two players cannot be emulated. Then instead of RJ Barrett they had Klay Thompson who could defend the guys Steph couldn't and was an elite shooter. Instead of BI, they had KD the Ferrari of skinny tall scoring forwards as opposed to the Suburu version. Not to mention Iggy instead of Dick/Agbaji.

Oh man I somehow even feel worse about the Raptors after reading that, and I didn't think that was possible.

I drive a subaru personally so im okay with that

But yea, i am as confused as you how this team is supposed to work and that was the only explanation i got. Not a great one i know

[ReggiesKnicks]

I think they are modelling IQ/Barnes after Curry/Draymond and trying to build a team to emulate the warriors..

That makes no sense. IQ is not remotely close to the shooter of Curry and never will be.

Ya its not easy building a team around a player like Barnes. Fingers crossed Barnes and IQ has more growth left in them and/or Ingram opens up the floor for them more

The problem with building around Barnes is you are building around Barnes. Toronto still needs to find a player flat-out better than Barnes in order to be competitive.

At the end of the day I am someone who is higher on IQ than the rest of this board but I seem to end up a bit lower on the Barnes/Ingram type of players. If IQ can be your Mike Conley, then Barnes + Another all-star + proper defensive aptitude can win a playoff series or two.

[Duffman100]

There simply is no modeling on Steph/Draymond because those are both 1 of 1's. Barnes might could do the passing part, but he's never going to have Draymond's defensive intelligence or impact.

And of course trying to be Steph just isn't a real thing any team should be asking of much better players than IQ. He's not just the best shooter of all-time, he's made the question forever moot. I mean a guy like Ray Allen just looks like a chump in comparison to him. We are talking about 3's from all angles, from all distances, off the dribble, off the curl, off the catch, off balance, just nobody can approach his effectiveness on these kinds of shots.

Nor the defensive attention even when he doesn't have the ball, his relentless and tireless off-ball movement, his quickness and release.

Just a terrible plan if that is really the plan--I hope its just something they leak to fans because it sounds good, but this is even worth than well Lauri is European and tall so we found our Dirk plan.

Those two players cannot be emulated. Then instead of RJ Barrett they had Klay Thompson who could defend the guys Steph couldn't and was an elite shooter. Instead of BI, they had KD the Ferrari of skinny tall scoring forwards as opposed to the Suburu version. Not to mention Iggy instead of Dick/Agbaji.

Oh man I somehow even feel worse about the Raptors after reading that, and I didn't think that was possible.

I drive a subaru personally so im okay with that

But yea, i am as confused as you how this team is supposed to work and that was the only explanation i got. Not a great one i know

I'm still confused why people think this is the final state? I think it's pretty agreed on that Masai is accumulating salaries and pieces to make a run at the next disgruntled star.

Yes they're capped out, but they aren't luring a FA anyways. And if Ingram doesn't work, it cost a likely low 20s first rounder?

[Texas Chuck]

I'm still confused why people think this is the final state?

Is any NBA team ever in a final state? Teams make changes every year and within the season. But I can only evaluate them at any one point in time and at this point, I hate it. I'm sorry, but I just do.

I also don't see this pile of contracts as an attractive package towards a star. I don't have IQ, RJ, or BI as being positive value on those deals, Poeltl a small positive, and I'm assuming the idea of the star is to pair him with Barnes?

IDK, I hope I'm wrong, but right now I just don't like what's been built and I don't see an easy pivot.

[ReggiesKnicks]

There simply is no modeling on Steph/Draymond because those are both 1 of 1's. Barnes might could do the passing part, but he's never going to have Draymond's defensive intelligence or impact.

And of course trying to be Steph just isn't a real thing any team should be asking of much better players than IQ. He's not just the best shooter of all-time, he's made the question forever moot. I mean a guy like Ray Allen just looks like a chump in comparison to him. We are talking about 3's from all angles, from all distances, off the dribble, off the curl, off the catch, off balance, just nobody can approach his effectiveness on these kinds of shots.

Nor the defensive attention even when he doesn't have the ball, his relentless and tireless off-ball movement, his quickness and release.

Just a terrible plan if that is really the plan--I hope its just something they leak to fans because it sounds good, but this is even worth than well Lauri is European and tall so we found our Dirk plan.

Those two players cannot be emulated. Then instead of RJ Barrett they had Klay Thompson who could defend the guys Steph couldn't and was an elite shooter. Instead of BI, they had KD the Ferrari of skinny tall scoring forwards as opposed to the Suburu version. Not to mention Iggy instead of Dick/Agbaji.

Oh man I somehow even feel worse about the Raptors after reading that, and I didn't think that was possible.

I drive a subaru personally so im okay with that

But yea, i am as confused as you how this team is supposed to work and that was the only explanation i got. Not a great one i know

I'm still confused why people think this is the final state? I think it's pretty agreed on that Masai is accumulating salaries and pieces to make a run at the next disgruntled star.

Yes they're capped out, but they aren't luring a FA anyways. And if Ingram doesn't work, it cost a likely low 20s first rounder?

Cap isn't about Free Agents, it is about flexibility. It isn't about having cap space, it is about operating well below the tax line in order to make the moves necessary.

Toronto has limited their team building by operating next to the Tax for marginal players.

I do like Quickly as a player but Toronto has 3 other players who are on bulky deals, have a questionable path forward to progress into a star and aren't well-rounded players (Barnes/Ingram/RJ).

You are a fan of Toronto but you can still be critical of them. There is no reason to defend a team when their roster moves over the past 3 years have been sub-bar.

Toronto isn't the 76ers or Suns, great job. But Toronto is a far cry from other teams when assessing rebuilds or even basic asset management over the past 5 years. What Toronto has done since winning a championship in 2019 has been far from the cream of the crop, same for looking at any time period between this year and 2020.

[Mavrelous]

According to Spotrac, they will be paying tax just by signing their draft picks, but they'll be very close, they can maneuver it around the DL based on where they stand.

[Duffman100]

I drive a subaru personally so im okay with that

But yea, i am as confused as you how this team is supposed to work and that was the only explanation i got. Not a great one i know

I'm still confused why people think this is the final state? I think it's pretty agreed on that Masai is accumulating salaries and pieces to make a run at the next disgruntled star.

Yes they're capped out, but they aren't luring a FA anyways. And if Ingram doesn't work, it cost a likely low 20s first rounder?

Cap isn't about Free Agents, it is about flexibility. It isn't about having cap space, it is about operating well below the tax line in order to make the moves necessary.

Toronto has limited their team building by operating next to the Tax for marginal players.

I do like Quickly as a player but Toronto has 3 other players who are on bulky deals, have a questionable path forward to progress into a star and aren't well-rounded players (Barnes/Ingram/RJ).

You are a fan of Toronto but you can still be critical of them. There is no reason to defend a team when their roster moves over the past 3 years have been sub-bar.

Toronto isn't the 76ers or Suns, great job. But Toronto is a far cry from other teams when assessing rebuilds or even basic asset management over the past 5 years. What Toronto has done since winning a championship in 2019 has been far from the cream of the crop, same for looking at any time period between this year and 2020.

Defending the hyperbole of "no quality depth" and they're in a 'bad state" != not being critical of management. I just don't think they're nearly in as bad of a state that's being said here.

I think there is a growing inherent bias that if you're not completely tearing down, you're 'doing it wrong'. Which I've noticed both here and on the GB.

I don't love the way the team is built (I wouldn't have done the Poeltl or Ingram trades).

But I also see a team with an average age of 25 (will drop below 25 when Boucher is gone), some flawed but solid pieces in IQ, Ingram, Barnes, a bunch of young depth that showed promise and a top 10 pick.

[ReggiesKnicks]

I'm still confused why people think this is the final state? I think it's pretty agreed on that Masai is accumulating salaries and pieces to make a run at the next disgruntled star.

Yes they're capped out, but they aren't luring a FA anyways. And if Ingram doesn't work, it cost a likely low 20s first rounder?

Cap isn't about Free Agents, it is about flexibility. It isn't about having cap space, it is about operating well below the tax line in order to make the moves necessary.

Toronto has limited their team building by operating next to the Tax for marginal players.

I do like Quickly as a player but Toronto has 3 other players who are on bulky deals, have a questionable path forward to progress into a star and aren't well-rounded players (Barnes/Ingram/RJ).

You are a fan of Toronto but you can still be critical of them. There is no reason to defend a team when their roster moves over the past 3 years have been sub-bar.

Toronto isn't the 76ers or Suns, great job. But Toronto is a far cry from other teams when assessing rebuilds or even basic asset management over the past 5 years. What Toronto has done since winning a championship in 2019 has been far from the cream of the crop, same for looking at any time period between this year and 2020.

Defending the hyperbole of "no quality depth" and they're in a 'bad state" != not being critical of management. I just don't think they're nearly in as bad of a state that's being said here.

I think there is a growing inherent bias that if you're not completely tearing down, you're 'doing it wrong'. Which I've noticed both here and on the GB.

The Pacers have hardly or rarely teared it down, neither did Utah until a couple seasons ago, and even that seemed to ooze with reluctance at first.

I don't agree teams need to tear it down in order to get a passing grade. What savvy teams do is constantly assess and make moves in order to acquire a core building block. Often times this is tanking as a high draft pick is a surefire bite at the apple and a simple process which requires one thing, losing games.

Indiana traded Sabonis, a two-time all-star traded at age 25. The idea of building around Sabonis, especially with the question regarding his skill-set on higher level teams, was something Indiana was able to properly assess and trade. Scottie Barnes is a player who has an arc more similar to Sabonis rather than Haliburton. A polarizing game which can devour regular season teams with the proper build but an unclear and murky path to being "the guy". Then, if Toronto can acquire a player better than Barnes without trading Barnes, Barnes skill-set doesn't scream additive with his bad shot and inability to consistently penetrate and breakdown a defense.

I think Toronto has a ton of opportunity to improve. I like the shooting they have added in IQ/Dick around Barnes. There are still some question marks regarding the team over the next 1-2 years as there are every team but my main qualms with Toronto are about vision, flexibility and opportunity cost. Giving up a late 1st for Ingram isn't inherently bad in terms of value but also you are giving up assets for Brandon Ingram to acquire him and then you are giving up assets (Cap Space) to retain Brandon Ingram. That is a lot to give up for a Brandon Ingram.

[Duffman100]

Cap isn't about Free Agents, it is about flexibility. It isn't about having cap space, it is about operating well below the tax line in order to make the moves necessary.

Toronto has limited their team building by operating next to the Tax for marginal players.

I do like Quickly as a player but Toronto has 3 other players who are on bulky deals, have a questionable path forward to progress into a star and aren't well-rounded players (Barnes/Ingram/RJ).

You are a fan of Toronto but you can still be critical of them. There is no reason to defend a team when their roster moves over the past 3 years have been sub-bar.

Toronto isn't the 76ers or Suns, great job. But Toronto is a far cry from other teams when assessing rebuilds or even basic asset management over the past 5 years. What Toronto has done since winning a championship in 2019 has been far from the cream of the crop, same for looking at any time period between this year and 2020.

Defending the hyperbole of "no quality depth" and they're in a 'bad state" != not being critical of management. I just don't think they're nearly in as bad of a state that's being said here.

I think there is a growing inherent bias that if you're not completely tearing down, you're 'doing it wrong'. Which I've noticed both here and on the GB.

The Pacers have hardly or rarely teared it down, neither did Utah until a couple seasons ago, and even that seemed to ooze with reluctance at first.

I don't agree teams need to tear it down in order to get a passing grade. What savvy teams do is constantly assess and make moves in order to acquire a core building block. Often times this is tanking as a high draft pick is a surefire bite at the apple and a simple process which requires one thing, losing games.

Indiana traded Sabonis, a two-time all-star traded at age 25. The idea of building around Sabonis, especially with the question regarding his skill-set on higher level teams, was something Indiana was able to properly assess and trade. Scottie Barnes is a player who has an arc more similar to Sabonis rather than Haliburton. A polarizing game which can devour regular season teams with the proper build but an unclear and murky path to being "the guy". Then, if Toronto can acquire a player better than Barnes without trading Barnes, Barnes skill-set doesn't scream additive with his bad shot and inability to consistently penetrate and breakdown a defense.

I think Toronto has a ton of opportunity to improve. I like the shooting they have added in IQ/Dick around Barnes. There are still some question marks regarding the team over the next 1-2 years as there are every team but my main qualms with Toronto are about vision, flexibility and opportunity cost. Giving up a late 1st for Ingram isn't inherently bad in terms of value but also you are giving up assets for Brandon Ingram to acquire him and then you are giving up assets (Cap Space) to retain Brandon Ingram. That is a lot to give up for a Brandon Ingram.

Maybe, I struggle to connect the theoretical 'capspace and flexibility and value' vs the tangible value of having Ingram.

[ReggiesKnicks]

Defending the hyperbole of "no quality depth" and they're in a 'bad state" != not being critical of management. I just don't think they're nearly in as bad of a state that's being said here.

I think there is a growing inherent bias that if you're not completely tearing down, you're 'doing it wrong'. Which I've noticed both here and on the GB.

The Pacers have hardly or rarely teared it down, neither did Utah until a couple seasons ago, and even that seemed to ooze with reluctance at first.

I don't agree teams need to tear it down in order to get a passing grade. What savvy teams do is constantly assess and make moves in order to acquire a core building block. Often times this is tanking as a high draft pick is a surefire bite at the apple and a simple process which requires one thing, losing games.

Indiana traded Sabonis, a two-time all-star traded at age 25. The idea of building around Sabonis, especially with the question regarding his skill-set on higher level teams, was something Indiana was able to properly assess and trade. Scottie Barnes is a player who has an arc more similar to Sabonis rather than Haliburton. A polarizing game which can devour regular season teams with the proper build but an unclear and murky path to being "the guy". Then, if Toronto can acquire a player better than Barnes without trading Barnes, Barnes skill-set doesn't scream additive with his bad shot and inability to consistently penetrate and breakdown a defense.

I think Toronto has a ton of opportunity to improve. I like the shooting they have added in IQ/Dick around Barnes. There are still some question marks regarding the team over the next 1-2 years as there are every team but my main qualms with Toronto are about vision, flexibility and opportunity cost. Giving up a late 1st for Ingram isn't inherently bad in terms of value but also you are giving up assets for Brandon Ingram to acquire him and then you are giving up assets (Cap Space) to retain Brandon Ingram. That is a lot to give up for a Brandon Ingram.

Maybe, I struggle to connect the theoretical 'capspace and flexibility and value' vs the tangible value of having Ingram.

I don't but I also don't value the tangible asset of Brandon Ingram. Massi obviously did and does value Ingram.

[Mattatron]

Dick was tasked with doing alot more than catch and shoot 3s this year. In a lesser role without handling the ball his numbers should go up. Also has Agbaji as a 40% 3pt shooter.

Trading Poeltl makes us much much worse on defense and a worse team overall. Easy fix for spacing in starting/closing lineup is to replace Barrett with Agbaji

Agbaji before this season never shot over 35 percent, I think he holds over 35 now, but we will see. Still, I don't think Quickley/Agabaji/Ingram is a lineup that spaces the floor really well considering how much Ingram and Scottie operate in the midrange. It's just a really poorly composed roster.

We will see how it goes. GSW functioned fine with 2-3 shooters in their lineup only. Ditto for Houston. If it doesnt fit well Masai will make changes as needed but Poeltl is here to stay as long as Masai is here imo

Are you seriously comparing GSW Offense with Curry/Klay/Dray to ours with RJ, Ingram and IQ ? Lmao

[Mattatron]

There simply is no modeling on Steph/Draymond because those are both 1 of 1's. Barnes might could do the passing part, but he's never going to have Draymond's defensive intelligence or impact.

And of course trying to be Steph just isn't a real thing any team should be asking of much better players than IQ. He's not just the best shooter of all-time, he's made the question forever moot. I mean a guy like Ray Allen just looks like a chump in comparison to him. We are talking about 3's from all angles, from all distances, off the dribble, off the curl, off the catch, off balance, just nobody can approach his effectiveness on these kinds of shots.

Nor the defensive attention even when he doesn't have the ball, his relentless and tireless off-ball movement, his quickness and release.

Just a terrible plan if that is really the plan--I hope its just something they leak to fans because it sounds good, but this is even worth than well Lauri is European and tall so we found our Dirk plan.

Those two players cannot be emulated. Then instead of RJ Barrett they had Klay Thompson who could defend the guys Steph couldn't and was an elite shooter. Instead of BI, they had KD the Ferrari of skinny tall scoring forwards as opposed to the Suburu version. Not to mention Iggy instead of Dick/Agbaji.

Oh man I somehow even feel worse about the Raptors after reading that, and I didn't think that was possible.

I drive a subaru personally so im okay with that

But yea, i am as confused as you how this team is supposed to work and that was the only explanation i got. Not a great one i know

I'm still confused why people think this is the final state? I think it's pretty agreed on that Masai is accumulating salaries and pieces to make a run at the next disgruntled star.

Yes they're capped out, but they aren't luring a FA anyways. And if Ingram doesn't work, it cost a likely low 20s first rounder?

And then you want to pair the Disgruntled Star with Dick, Walter, Mogbo ? Raptors are not winning anything with a roster constructed like that. MU build via Draft years ago, and had a deep fundamental impact through it. This is not even close the case this time. He's doing 50/50 moves. Don't wanna go into a rebuild (but he should've do it once they drafted Barnes), reluctant to trade his best pieces (OG, Siakam) for a nice haul of pos assets. Now he tries to show everybody how good RJ, IQ and BI is as a return (they're trash). Ingram might be ok, but I don't see the fit right now. And MU is not building around Barnes, he's a part of a plan, a cornerstone going forward, but he's not building around him, as we can see.

[gswhoops]

I'm still confused why people think this is the final state? I think it's pretty agreed on that Masai is accumulating salaries and pieces to make a run at the next disgruntled star.

Yes they're capped out, but they aren't luring a FA anyways. And if Ingram doesn't work, it cost a likely low 20s first rounder?

Cap isn't about Free Agents, it is about flexibility. It isn't about having cap space, it is about operating well below the tax line in order to make the moves necessary.

Toronto has limited their team building by operating next to the Tax for marginal players.

I do like Quickly as a player but Toronto has 3 other players who are on bulky deals, have a questionable path forward to progress into a star and aren't well-rounded players (Barnes/Ingram/RJ).

You are a fan of Toronto but you can still be critical of them. There is no reason to defend a team when their roster moves over the past 3 years have been sub-bar.

Toronto isn't the 76ers or Suns, great job. But Toronto is a far cry from other teams when assessing rebuilds or even basic asset management over the past 5 years. What Toronto has done since winning a championship in 2019 has been far from the cream of the crop, same for looking at any time period between this year and 2020.

Defending the hyperbole of "no quality depth" and they're in a 'bad state" != not being critical of management. I just don't think they're nearly in as bad of a state that's being said here.

I think there is a growing inherent bias that if you're not completely tearing down, you're 'doing it wrong'. Which I've noticed both here and on the GB.

I don't love the way the team is built (I wouldn't have done the Poeltl or Ingram trades).

But I also see a team with an average age of 25 (will drop below 25 when Boucher is gone), some flawed but solid pieces in IQ, Ingram, Barnes, a bunch of young depth that showed promise and a top 10 pick.

I think that makes sense. If you think those three are your core guys, then I think your imperative is to move the pieces that don't make sense around those three (RJ and Poeltl being the biggest ones) and bring in some pieces that do make sense around those three, even if you have to sell RJ/Poeltl at a "loss" compared to what you paid for them.

I would also figure out which of the young depth guys you see as part of your "core" moving forward and move the ones who aren't for whatever value they have right now, before they run out of cheap rookie deal and you're forced to either pay them market rate to keep them or let them walk for nothing.

Either way, I don't see "use our draft picks and run it back with the same roster" as an answer.

[Duffman100]

I drive a subaru personally so im okay with that

But yea, i am as confused as you how this team is supposed to work and that was the only explanation i got. Not a great one i know

I'm still confused why people think this is the final state? I think it's pretty agreed on that Masai is accumulating salaries and pieces to make a run at the next disgruntled star.

Yes they're capped out, but they aren't luring a FA anyways. And if Ingram doesn't work, it cost a likely low 20s first rounder?

And then you want to pair the Disgruntled Star with Dick, Walter, Mogbo ?

Why are those the players were pairing him with?

Those are our bench depth, not the main player left after a trade for a disgruntled star. Are you expecting we're giving up our entire starting lineup for a star?

[oldncreaky]

I think the OP is pretty reasonable

Barnes is a terrific #2 star. Good post game, facilitator, rebounding, running the break, under-rated defender, can play in any line up and excel on both ends. But he just doesn't have the offensive game to be the lead guy, and even though he's still young I don't see that changing.

Poeltl is really underrated. I think he's a fantastic half of a C rotation. Masai apparently intends to fill the other half with whoever he can find in the GLeague. On a team with no other NBA-worthy size, he's critical.

BI/IQ/RJ are all decent, 4th or 5th starter level. I don't have any problem having 1 of them on the team, and I could live with 2 if 1 was on the bench. But having 3 start? Yecch. After that, you've got a half-dozen young guards; and hopefully a couple of them emerge as rotation pieces.

I hope they can flip one of BI/IQ/RJ for some size and a better fit -- IMO the only way the BI trade makes any sense is if they can flip one of these guys -- but as is, likely play-in, can't see them winning in the PS, and will fall into the lottery if Poeltl misses any significant time.

[ReggiesKnicks]

I think the OP is pretty reasonable

Barnes is a terrific #2 star. Good post game, facilitator, rebounding, running the break, under-rated defender, can play in any line up and excel on both ends. But he just doesn't have the offensive game to be the lead guy, and even though he's still young I don't see that changing.

Poeltl is really underrated. I think he's a fantastic half of a C rotation. Masai apparently intends to fill the other half with whoever he can find in the GLeague. On a team with no other NBA-worthy size, he's critical.

BI/IQ/RJ are all decent, 4th or 5th starter level. I don't have any problem having 1 of them on the team, and I could live with 2 if 1 was on the bench. But having 3 start? Yecch. After that, you've got a half-dozen young guards; and hopefully a couple of them emerge as rotation pieces.

I hope they can flip one of BI/IQ/RJ for some size and a better fit -- IMO the only way the BI trade makes any sense is if they can flip one of these guys -- but as is, likely play-in, can't see them winning in the PS, and will fall into the lottery if Poeltl misses any significant time.

Unironically Kevin Durant is an excellent fit with the Raptors roster, though his salary is difficult to match without gutting the Raptors.

Joel Embiid is an interesting trade target considering Toronto likely isn't going anywhere with the roster as-is and they could acquire Embiid while retaining their future 1sts.

Lauri Markkanen would tie-in the offense and make it more cohesive, though Toronto still comes away without a potential blue-blood #1 option.

The Ja sweepstakes could be tempting but likely too expensive while his draft-mate Zion is an ill-fit but has blue-blood potential.

Tyrese Maxey is an intriguing fit though likely unavailable.

[Mattatron]

I'm still confused why people think this is the final state? I think it's pretty agreed on that Masai is accumulating salaries and pieces to make a run at the next disgruntled star.

Yes they're capped out, but they aren't luring a FA anyways. And if Ingram doesn't work, it cost a likely low 20s first rounder?

And then you want to pair the Disgruntled Star with Dick, Walter, Mogbo ?

Why are those the players were pairing him with?

Those are our bench depth, not the main player left after a trade for a disgruntled star. Are you expecting we're giving up our entire starting lineup for a star?

You still need a bench to win. Dick, Walter, Mogbo, Freeman etc is no "bench depth". Your not winning anything with them. They are delon wright, bebe type of level players. And who remains in S5 ? One or two out of RJ, SB, IQ and BI ? Your not winning with anyone of them. Barnes is a capable piece. But the rest ist garbage. So the disgruntled star you want to trade for, will be disgruntled in TO after a couple of weeks. Toronto is not in the position right now, we are 2-3 good managerial years away. No team is winning without a bench. And masai decided to cheat his way up, and trade his few assets for bums.

[wegotthabeet]

I think the OP is pretty reasonable

Barnes is a terrific #2 star. Good post game, facilitator, rebounding, running the break, under-rated defender, can play in any line up and excel on both ends. But he just doesn't have the offensive game to be the lead guy, and even though he's still young I don't see that changing.

Poeltl is really underrated. I think he's a fantastic half of a C rotation. Masai apparently intends to fill the other half with whoever he can find in the GLeague. On a team with no other NBA-worthy size, he's critical.

BI/IQ/RJ are all decent, 4th or 5th starter level. I don't have any problem having 1 of them on the team, and I could live with 2 if 1 was on the bench. But having 3 start? Yecch. After that, you've got a half-dozen young guards; and hopefully a couple of them emerge as rotation pieces.

I hope they can flip one of BI/IQ/RJ for some size and a better fit -- IMO the only way the BI trade makes any sense is if they can flip one of these guys -- but as is, likely play-in, can't see them winning in the PS, and will fall into the lottery if Poeltl misses any significant time.

The criticism in this thread is fair. I'm pretty aligned with what you wrote here.

Barnes seems like the only real long term piece, but even he is moveable if a true number 1 guy became available. They also need to hit on their top 8 pick this year to raise the ceiling significantly.

The team has a relatively high floor if fully healthy, but low ceiling (i.e. a team that loses in round 1 or 2).

Moving up to a top two pick next week would change everything, but there's a 15% chance of happening. A Barnes + Flagg / Harper core would be really exciting.

[Ell Curry]

Hard to say until the draft.

If the pick is a big, it's probably a quiet offseason.

If a scoring wing or PG is drafted, a trade makes sense. One of RJ, Agbaji or Gradey Dick for a backup center.

I didn't include Walter only because he looks really intriguing and unproven guys like him tend to have less trade value to a new team who might be wondering "why doesn't his old team think he can be a starter?"

[Johnston]

Ugh I just hate where the Raps are. If the idea is to try and be a playoff team, its just so hard having this ill-fitting of a starting lineup and just no quality depth to speak of.

I get why you stood pat because there just aren't really any good options. I guess see if someone would give you a little value for Poeltl or take one of the guards off your hands, but that doesn't really do much for you.

They need lottery luck and they need that player to pan out. Because otherwise its hard to see their path forward.

Their players missed the 3rd most games n the league and most were freak injuries (scottie broke his face, IQ had a baseball pitcher type elbow injury and both missed a ton of time at the beginning of the year). 2nd half of the year they looked promising. they had a good defensive rating (3rd in the league) after the AS break and if i remember correctly had 6th or 7th most wins in the 2nd half of the season (in the east) while actively tanking. . If they are healthy, they will be fighting for top 6 in the east and are poised to make a splash if a star hits the market. Raps plan on resigning Poeltl. they need a SF and C swapped with their glut of SGs. I assumed the 1st rd pick will solve one of those problems (Maluach, DQ, carter bryant etc) and hopefully an older player with the 39th pick (hugo, broome condon etc).

tldr: they have showed promise when healthy and have assets to make a splash.

IQ/RJ/BI/Scottie/Poeltl
Shead/Dick/Ochai/JKW/Mogbo/2025 pick