NBA Trade Thread #12

[jnrjr79]

Honestly that non-deal with Ball may go down as AKs worst move. They had actually rehabbed someone's value to the point to actually get something for him. And they blew it. They absolutely blew it.

Maybe Memphis still has interest. Not hard to see why they would want him as a back up guard. But with Scotty Pippen Jr's emergency, maybe they don't think they need another backup.

I can't say I agree with this at all. Lonzo on a $10M deal, one year guaranteed, with a team option the following year is an eminently tradeable contract.

Tradable, yes, but for what exactly? Are we ever going to get a better return than a single FRP? For us to get a better return than the deal AK passed on, Lonzo would have to stay healthy for a season.

He wasn't fully healthy last season and they still got an offer, so I don't expect much to change given his contract has become more favorable.

[2weekswithpay]

I can't say I agree with this at all. Lonzo on a $10M deal, one year guaranteed, with a team option the following year is an eminently tradeable contract.

Tradable, yes, but for what exactly? Are we ever going to get a better return than a single FRP? For us to get a better return than the deal AK passed on, Lonzo would have to stay healthy for a season.

He wasn't fully healthy last season and they still got an offer, so I don't expect much to change given his contract has become more favorable.

The Grizzlies wanted to clear up money for the summer, and Lonzo's expiring contract would help them do that. Lonzo playing and helping them win games would've been a bonus.

Sure, the Bulls could make a similar trade next season since Lonzo's contract comes with a team option, but why pass up on this trade when it's unlikely you'll get a better offer in the future?

[Infinity2152]

There is the fact that Ball is a great all round player when healthy and seems to be a great all around guy who elevates the team when he plays. We don't have a lot of vets, and I'd argue he's the best one. There's no need to trade him, he's a great fit, fits needs, and is cheap and locked up. His presence will help the young guys on the team to develop.

We're never going anywhere trading every single player for whatever we can get. Team building is an art, not science. Sounds good that Smart and that #20 pick, plus being down not only the extra $11 mill but also the salary for that picks, so say $14 mill extra cap space, would be better for the Bulls. Finding/keeping pieces that fit and actually work matter.

Lonzo's like the last of the players we NEED to trade or move. He costs $10 mill. One of my favorite players on this team, and probably to a lot of other fans too.

All the talk about slow to rebuild. Pat, Coby, Ball, Vucevic, Terry are the only players that have been here more than 2 years and we're trying to get rid of all of them except maybe Coby. Lot of calls for Coby's head too. Hard to build a team with the whole team on the trade block every year.

[jnrjr79]

Tradable, yes, but for what exactly? Are we ever going to get a better return than a single FRP? For us to get a better return than the deal AK passed on, Lonzo would have to stay healthy for a season.

He wasn't fully healthy last season and they still got an offer, so I don't expect much to change given his contract has become more favorable.

The Grizzlies wanted to clear up money for the summer, and Lonzo's expiring contract would help them do that. Lonzo playing and helping them win games would've been a bonus.

Sure, the Bulls could make a similar trade next season since Lonzo's contract comes with a team option, but why pass up on this trade when it's unlikely you'll get a better offer in the future?

I assume it's because having to send two 2nds back cuts into the value of receiving a late 1st in this draft. Just a guess.

[sco]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/article/nba-writer-proposes-trade-lakers-160045076.html

Sounds like DAL is starting to sniff out Gafford deals. I'm pretty sure AK won't want Gafford back (and admit his error in trading him to begin with). Still, I'd see if DAL would consider Smith + filler for Gafford.

[2weekswithpay]

He wasn't fully healthy last season and they still got an offer, so I don't expect much to change given his contract has become more favorable.

The Grizzlies wanted to clear up money for the summer, and Lonzo's expiring contract would help them do that. Lonzo playing and helping them win games would've been a bonus.

Sure, the Bulls could make a similar trade next season since Lonzo's contract comes with a team option, but why pass up on this trade when it's unlikely you'll get a better offer in the future?

I assume it's because having to send two 2nds back cuts into the value of receiving a late 1st in this draft. Just a guess.

We have one 2nd in this draft from the Kings, and we don't have any more 2nds until 2028. Just take the first round pick.

[2weekswithpay]

Lonzo has played 70 games in 4 seasons. If someone offers you good value for Lonzo, you should take it. Fans like him, and it's great that he could play again, but he's not a talent or franchise legend that we should be hesitant to trade.

We don't need to move these guys, but we don't need to keep them either. They aren't that good.

[Infinity2152]

Lonzo has played 70 games in 4 seasons. If someone offers you good value for Lonzo, you should take it. Fans like him, and it's great that he could play again, but he's not a talent or franchise legend that we should be hesitant to trade.

We don't need to move these guys, but we don't need to keep them either. They aren't that good.

By this logic, we should be trading every Bulls player for the last 4-5 years, lol. And everybody currently on the team except Matas and Giddey. Start the season with two players and a bunch of future draft picks. Who else is considered a talent? Or a franchise legend? You need 15 players to field a basketball team. Nobody ever said Ball was untradeable. But there needs to be purpose and specific reasons for trades, like getting a great deal or this player doesn't fit or their contract is too much. Trading players just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Is Ball a good player? Yes. Does he fit? Yes. Is he a plus on both sides of the ball? Is he relatively inexpensive? Yes. Are we getting some great return for him? No. What are we trying to gain here? An extra late first round pick in exchange for taking Marcus Smart who likely doesn't fit nearly as well although healthier, giving up an extra $21 mill in cap space for years, and probably costing seconds as well?

Don't know what mentioning his played games the last four years is supposed to prove. He just supposedly healed from his injury this summer. So you can say he played 70 over the last four years, or say finally coming back from a long-term injury he played 35 games in his first season back. Is he likely to play the same number of games next year that he did last year, or the year before? Guarantee just last year most people would take the under in an over/under of whether Ball would play 30+ games this season. They'd be wrong.

Curious if anybody wants to share. Over/under Lonzo Ball plays 40 games next season? I take over, but of course it's just a guess. Think he could have played 40+ this season, but they're being extremely careful with him. If you think he plays less than 30 games next year, I TOTALLY understand wishing he was traded.

[2weekswithpay]

Lonzo cannot be relied on to play half the season. Even before he came here, he dealt with injuries. He has only played more than 60 games once in his career. The amount of games he's able to play is important. A FRP for Lonzo is a good return, and getting a FRP is a very good reason to trade Lonzo. Marcus Smart would be under contract for one more season, just like Huerter and Zach Collins. We have no money to spend this summer besides the MLE. We aren't losing any flexibility here. Lonzo might as well be untradable if a FRP isn't enough.

Who here would rather have two 2nds over the 18th pick in the draft?

Yes, every Bulls player besides Matas and maybe Giddey should be on the trade block for the right price.

[Infinity2152]

Lonzo cannot be relied on to play half the season. Even before he came here, he dealt with injuries. He has only played more than 60 games once in his career. The amount of games he's able to play is important. A FRP for Lonzo is a good return, and getting a FRP is a very good reason to trade Lonzo. Marcus Smart would be under contract for one more season, just like Huerter and Zach Collins. We have no money to spend this summer besides the MLE. We aren't losing any flexibility here. Lonzo might as well be untradable if a FRP isn't enough.

Who here would rather have two 2nds over the 18th pick in the draft?

Yes, every Bulls player besides Matas and maybe Giddey should be on the trade block for the right price.

You're talking about a late first round pick is worth taking on $24-25 mill in guaranteed salary. Lonzo was expiring, wasn't he? The fact that we chose to re-sign him was just added value. Versus Smart at $21 mill and a rookie at $3-$4 mill. We chose to re-sign Lonzo to $10 mill, but we could have cleared his entire contract. A late first for $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds is not really a no brainer. How many games Lonzo plays next year has nothing to do with the fact that he was a $21 mill expiring. The contract we re-signed him to is entirely separate.

Who here would rather have an extra $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds vs the 18th pick? Pretty damn sure I can get a player(s) better than whoever the 18th pick ends up being with $25 mill and 2 seconds. That's 3-4 players, probably. How much was Tre Jones again?

[burlydee]

Honestly that non-deal with Ball may go down as AKs worst move. They had actually rehabbed someone's value to the point to actually get something for him. And they blew it. They absolutely blew it.

Maybe Memphis still has interest. Not hard to see why they would want him as a back up guard. But with Scotty Pippen Jr's emergency, maybe they don't think they need another backup.

I can't say I agree with this at all. Lonzo on a $10M deal, one year guaranteed, with a team option the following year is an eminently tradeable contract.

Lonzo is the 5th best guard on the team and injury prone. Its not 2019.

[Maverick41]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/article/nba-writer-proposes-trade-lakers-160045076.html

Sounds like DAL is starting to sniff out Gafford deals. I'm pretty sure AK won't want Gafford back (and admit his error in trading him to begin with). Still, I'd see if DAL would consider Smith + filler for Gafford.

Would you consider a C. White for Gafford swap? If not, what would need to be added to make it fair?

[burlydee]

There is the fact that Ball is a great all round player when healthy and seems to be a great all around guy who elevates the team when he plays. We don't have a lot of vets, and I'd argue he's the best one. There's no need to trade him, he's a great fit, fits needs, and is cheap and locked up. His presence will help the young guys on the team to develop.

We're never going anywhere trading every single player for whatever we can get. Team building is an art, not science. Sounds good that Smart and that #20 pick, plus being down not only the extra $11 mill but also the salary for that picks, so say $14 mill extra cap space, would be better for the Bulls. Finding/keeping pieces that fit and actually work matter.

Lonzo's like the last of the players we NEED to trade or move. He costs $10 mill. One of my favorite players on this team, and probably to a lot of other fans too.

All the talk about slow to rebuild. Pat, Coby, Ball, Vucevic, Terry are the only players that have been here more than 2 years and we're trying to get rid of all of them except maybe Coby. Lot of calls for Coby's head too. Hard to build a team with the whole team on the trade block every year.

This is insane reasoning. Lmao. The Bulls need as many lottery tickets as possible to acquire a bona fide high level player. Ball is behind White, Giddey, Ayo and Jones in my opinion. He's been hurt for 3 years. There is no guarantee he stays healthy. Even before his extended injury he was not exactly an iron man.

People will rail at AK for not getting a pick when acquiring a 22 year old starting point guard, but shrug their shoulders when a guy who has played 30 games in 3 years is not traded for a first round pick. Its just insane asset management.

[burlydee]

Lonzo cannot be relied on to play half the season. Even before he came here, he dealt with injuries. He has only played more than 60 games once in his career. The amount of games he's able to play is important. A FRP for Lonzo is a good return, and getting a FRP is a very good reason to trade Lonzo. Marcus Smart would be under contract for one more season, just like Huerter and Zach Collins. We have no money to spend this summer besides the MLE. We aren't losing any flexibility here. Lonzo might as well be untradable if a FRP isn't enough.

Who here would rather have two 2nds over the 18th pick in the draft?

Yes, every Bulls player besides Matas and maybe Giddey should be on the trade block for the right price.

You're talking about a late first round pick is worth taking on $24-25 mill in guaranteed salary. Lonzo was expiring, wasn't he? The fact that we chose to re-sign him was just added value. Versus Smart at $21 mill and a rookie at $3-$4 mill. We chose to re-sign Lonzo to $10 mill, but we could have cleared his entire contract. A late first for $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds is not really a no brainer. How many games Lonzo plays next year has nothing to do with the fact that he was a $21 mill expiring. The contract we re-signed him to is entirely separate.

Who here would rather have an extra $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds vs the 18th pick? Pretty damn sure I can get a player(s) better than whoever the 18th pick ends up being with $25 mill and 2 seconds. That's 3-4 players, probably. How much was Tre Jones again?

The fact that they extended him has everything to do with it. They didn't save $25 mil. They "saved" 10 million (bc Smart makes $21 a year) and gave up a chance at a 1st round pick.

[Infinity2152]

My bad

[WindyCityBorn]

Lonzo cannot be relied on to play half the season. Even before he came here, he dealt with injuries. He has only played more than 60 games once in his career. The amount of games he's able to play is important. A FRP for Lonzo is a good return, and getting a FRP is a very good reason to trade Lonzo. Marcus Smart would be under contract for one more season, just like Huerter and Zach Collins. We have no money to spend this summer besides the MLE. We aren't losing any flexibility here. Lonzo might as well be untradable if a FRP isn't enough.

Who here would rather have two 2nds over the 18th pick in the draft?

Yes, every Bulls player besides Matas and maybe Giddey should be on the trade block for the right price.

You're talking about a late first round pick is worth taking on $24-25 mill in guaranteed salary. Lonzo was expiring, wasn't he? The fact that we chose to re-sign him was just added value. Versus Smart at $21 mill and a rookie at $3-$4 mill. We chose to re-sign Lonzo to $10 mill, but we could have cleared his entire contract. A late first for $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds is not really a no brainer. How many games Lonzo plays next year has nothing to do with the fact that he was a $21 mill expiring. The contract we re-signed him to is entirely separate.

Who here would rather have an extra $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds vs the 18th pick? Pretty damn sure I can get a player(s) better than whoever the 18th pick ends up being with $25 mill and 2 seconds. That's 3-4 players, probably. How much was Tre Jones again?

The fact that they extended him has everything to do with it. They didn't save $25 mil. They "saved" 10 million (bc Smart makes $21 a year) and gave up a chance at a 1st round pick.

We don’t have an extra $10 million to absorb in a trade. Most or all of our cap space will go to Giddey.

[Infinity2152]

Lonzo cannot be relied on to play half the season. Even before he came here, he dealt with injuries. He has only played more than 60 games once in his career. The amount of games he's able to play is important. A FRP for Lonzo is a good return, and getting a FRP is a very good reason to trade Lonzo. Marcus Smart would be under contract for one more season, just like Huerter and Zach Collins. We have no money to spend this summer besides the MLE. We aren't losing any flexibility here. Lonzo might as well be untradable if a FRP isn't enough.

Who here would rather have two 2nds over the 18th pick in the draft?

Yes, every Bulls player besides Matas and maybe Giddey should be on the trade block for the right price.

You're talking about a late first round pick is worth taking on $24-25 mill in guaranteed salary. Lonzo was expiring, wasn't he? The fact that we chose to re-sign him was just added value. Versus Smart at $21 mill and a rookie at $3-$4 mill. We chose to re-sign Lonzo to $10 mill, but we could have cleared his entire contract. A late first for $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds is not really a no brainer. How many games Lonzo plays next year has nothing to do with the fact that he was a $21 mill expiring. The contract we re-signed him to is entirely separate.

Who here would rather have an extra $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds vs the 18th pick? Pretty damn sure I can get a player(s) better than whoever the 18th pick ends up being with $25 mill and 2 seconds. That's 3-4 players, probably. How much was Tre Jones again?

The fact that they extended him has everything to do with it. They didn't save $25 mil. They "saved" 10 million (bc Smart makes $21 a year) and gave up a chance at a 1st round pick.

The fact that they extended him has NOTHING to do with his trade value at the time of the trade. Did he have his extension then? Did the extension even exist? Probably wasn't even discussed yet, since he was in trade talks in the first place. At the time he was not traded, he was a $21 mill expiring contract, right or wrong? Meaning adding in Smart plus the cost of the draft pick, At the time of the trade we were adding $22-24 mill of guaranteed money and probably a couple of seconds to have Marcus Smart and the 18th pick. Given that they got 2 seconds plus expirings in their actual trade, refuse to believe they weren't asking for seconds from us unless somebody shows definitive proof of the trade offer.

There have literally been times when a late first round pick was traded for two seconds alone. The value added in this trade vs the cap cost is suspect. You clearly value late draft picks far more than cap space.

$11.6 mill extra is not insignificant, you can re-sign Tre Jones with that and he's probably better than the 18th pick. So you could have expiring Smart and your 18th pick probable role player, Vs Ball at $10 mill with an option year, re-signed Jones at $8-10 mil, and 1.6-3.6 mill left to help pay the two second round pick players you got.

[sco]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/article/nba-writer-proposes-trade-lakers-160045076.html

Sounds like DAL is starting to sniff out Gafford deals. I'm pretty sure AK won't want Gafford back (and admit his error in trading him to begin with). Still, I'd see if DAL would consider Smith + filler for Gafford.

Would you consider a C. White for Gafford swap? If not, what would need to be added to make it fair?

I like Gafford if we're trading bench pieces. If it were Coby (who I don't think our FO would consider in a deal), I would at least want your 1st or Christie attached.

[burlydee]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/article/nba-writer-proposes-trade-lakers-160045076.html

Sounds like DAL is starting to sniff out Gafford deals. I'm pretty sure AK won't want Gafford back (and admit his error in trading him to begin with). Still, I'd see if DAL would consider Smith + filler for Gafford.

Would you consider a C. White for Gafford swap? If not, what would need to be added to make it fair?

No. Derrick Lively is probably the only player on the Msvs I'd find appealing.

[burlydee]

You're talking about a late first round pick is worth taking on $24-25 mill in guaranteed salary. Lonzo was expiring, wasn't he? The fact that we chose to re-sign him was just added value. Versus Smart at $21 mill and a rookie at $3-$4 mill. We chose to re-sign Lonzo to $10 mill, but we could have cleared his entire contract. A late first for $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds is not really a no brainer. How many games Lonzo plays next year has nothing to do with the fact that he was a $21 mill expiring. The contract we re-signed him to is entirely separate.

Who here would rather have an extra $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds vs the 18th pick? Pretty damn sure I can get a player(s) better than whoever the 18th pick ends up being with $25 mill and 2 seconds. That's 3-4 players, probably. How much was Tre Jones again?

The fact that they extended him has everything to do with it. They didn't save $25 mil. They "saved" 10 million (bc Smart makes $21 a year) and gave up a chance at a 1st round pick.

The fact that they extended him has NOTHING to do with his trade value at the time of the trade. Did he have his extension then? Did the extension even exist? Probably wasn't even discussed yet, since he was in trade talks in the first place. At the time he was not traded, he was a $21 mill expiring contract, right or wrong? Meaning adding in Smart plus the cost of the draft pick, At the time of the trade we were adding $22-24 mill of guaranteed money and probably a couple of seconds to have Marcus Smart and the 18th pick. Given that they got 2 seconds plus expirings in their actual trade, refuse to believe they weren't asking for seconds from us unless somebody shows definitive proof of the trade offer.

His "value at the time of the trade?" They extended him the same week they decided not to trade him. From a brief internet search, it looks like they announced the trade the day before the deadline.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2025/02/bulls-lonzo-ball-agree-to-two-year-extension.html#:~:text=The%20second%20year%20of%20the,has%20enjoyed%20a%20successful%20return.

I was hoping it was part of some plan to chase his brother but it really just looks like they misread the value here.

This is actually my biggest concern with AK and my biggest reason I believe he should be fired. He doesn't just misread talent evaluations, we all do. He fails to update his priors based on new info. He did it with Vuc, with Pat and now Ball.

I like Ball. But for a rebuilding team, I think a pick in the teens (which is what it became) is much better value. And he should have known it at the time. That Memphis pick is 6 picks behind the Bulls. 6! He got a get out of jail free card, and blew it.