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The Trae Young Dilemma

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Re: The Trae Young Dilemma 

Post#201 » by jayu70 » Wed Apr 9, 2025 2:00 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:It's time to have a serious conversation bout the Trae Young era in Atlanta...


Maybe, but the conversation isn't and shouldn't be about TOs. Context and nuance is so important.



I think it has to be at least a part of the conversation.

  • Trae's erratic shooting
  • combined with his high number of turnovers
  • along with massive defensive issues

...make it very difficult to build a competent roster around him.

I'm not pushing him out the door, but it's been 7 years now.
And we've never won 44 games in a Trae Young Season.



Is all the the pain worth it if next year we stay healthy, win 48 games...and then lose in the 2nd round of the playoffs?

If you think they've done a great job adding pieces to the continually build up the overall team...then you may have a broader point. But when we continually make cost cutting moves at the expense of talent it's a bit disingenuous to lump it all under 'winning in the TY era'
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Re: The Trae Young Dilemma 

Post#202 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Apr 11, 2025 7:46 pm

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Re: The Trae Young Dilemma 

Post#203 » by Jamaaliver » Sat Apr 12, 2025 8:47 pm

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Re: The Trae Young Dilemma 

Post#204 » by HMFFL » Sun Apr 13, 2025 12:36 am

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I hope as the talent improves around Trae his 3 point shooting will. I expect him be a 40% shooter from the distance.

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Re: The Trae Young Dilemma 

Post#205 » by Jamaaliver » Mon May 5, 2025 2:29 am

Legitimately embarrassing.
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Re: The Trae Young Dilemma 

Post#206 » by Jamaaliver » Tue May 6, 2025 3:17 pm

I've heard complaints that the 2021 Playoff Run to the ECF was pretty detrimental to the core and the franchise.

But I'd say the Beatdown by the Miami Heat in the 2022 playoffs was pretty impactful too. That whole season was a disappointment, but the loss was so one-sided it led to a rift between Trae and Travis Schlenk...and led ownership to a massive gamble to add ill-fitting talent to the roster.
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Re: The Trae Young Dilemma 

Post#207 » by jayu70 » Tue May 6, 2025 7:37 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:I've heard complaints that the 2021 Playoff Run to the ECF was pretty detrimental to the core and the franchise.

But I'd say the Beatdown by the Miami Heat in the 2022 playoffs was pretty impactful too. That whole season was a disappointment, but the loss was so one-sided it led to a rift between Trae and Travis Schlenk...and led ownership to a massive gamble to add ill-fitting talent to the roster.
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I hear that too....but I think it's more that they didn't add pieces to continually get better each season and didn't keep developing, remember Nate's 'we are done with development.' I remember saying even Trae still needs development.
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Re: The Trae Young Dilemma 

Post#208 » by Jamaaliver » Thu May 15, 2025 3:24 pm

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Re: The Trae Young Dilemma 

Post#209 » by jayu70 » Thu May 15, 2025 3:39 pm

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Hopefully the sore achilles/heel gets 'fixed' this offseason. There were times when he just didn't have the burst and settled for bad shots. Affected his overall efficiency.
He probably should have sat some games, but compounding injuries to others and no viable backup PG forced him to play and play more monutes.
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Re: The Trae Young Dilemma 

Post#210 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Jun 3, 2025 3:02 am

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Re: The Trae Young Dilemma 

Post#211 » by HMFFL » Tue Jun 3, 2025 5:46 am

Jamaaliver wrote:Image
Hali is the only one with the potential to be a superstar.
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Re: The Trae Young Dilemma 

Post#212 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Jun 3, 2025 12:08 pm

HMFFL wrote:
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Hali is the only one with the potential to be a superstar.


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Re: The Trae Young Dilemma 

Post#213 » by HMFFL » Tue Jun 3, 2025 12:29 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
HMFFL wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:
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Hali is the only one with the potential to be a superstar.


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We define superstar differently and thats okay.
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Re: The Trae Young Dilemma 

Post#214 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Jul 3, 2025 6:49 pm

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Re: The Trae Young Dilemma 

Post#215 » by jayu70 » Thu Jul 3, 2025 7:11 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Z75BixOU_5k

:lol: ... :nonono:
We added good solid pieces that fit, but still lack a bonafide 2nd option.
KP was playing with Tatum and Brown
NAW with AntMan/Towns/Gobert.
The rest of the Hawks are in the potential phase.
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Re: The Trae Young Dilemma 

Post#216 » by HMFFL » Sat Jul 5, 2025 10:01 pm

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We keep building on offense and defense due to Trae being the problem. Maybe the new additions will work for him.
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Re: The Trae Young Dilemma 

Post#217 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Jul 10, 2025 1:37 am

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Re: The Trae Young Dilemma 

Post#218 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Jul 11, 2025 1:55 pm

The annual hit piece from Brad Botkin at CBS Sports:

Trae Young is out of excuses

If Trae Young can't win with this team, he might be the problem

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No player is in total control of everything, or even, to some degree, anything around them. All that said, I'll say this about Trae Young: If he can't deliver consistent wins with the support staff with which the Hawks have outfitted him for this upcoming season, he might be the problem.

Building around a star like Young is, at once, challenging and straightforward. Give him shooting, a big man to throw lobs to and an insulating defense, and he can pretty much do the rest. Same goes for Luka Doncic, and every other defensively deficient, ball-dominant, center-of-the-universe point guard. It's a player archetype that has come into great question in recent years, and for good reason.

Gone are all the good feels that came with Atlanta's surprise run to the 2021 conference finals, when Young was seemingly on track to take center stage as one of the league's premier playoff performers. Since that run, the Hawks have gone 160-168. They fired a coach and barely improved with a new one. They made a huge trade for Dejounte Murray that went totally bust. They've missed the playoffs entirely in two of the last four seasons, and went out with a first-round whimper (3-8 in two series vs. Boston and Miami) in the other two.

Young's prints are on all of this. He's played in at least 73 games in three of the last four years, and it's not as though Atlanta hasn't had talent around him. Young has played with prime Murray and a borderline All-Star in John Collins. Clint Capela, Bogdan Bogdanovic, DeAndre Hunter, Kevin Heurter, Onyeka Okongwu, emerging star Jalen Johnson, Defensive Player of the Year runner-up Dyson Daniels, and plenty of other good NBA players, including 2024 No. 1 overall pick Zaccharie Risacher, who was quietly really good down the stretch last year, have been Young's teammates as well.

Still, the Hawks have managed just a plus-3.5 combined net rating over the last four years (almost 21,000 non-garbage possessions) with Young on the floor, per Cleaning the Glass, with an upper-class offense and a lower-class defense. That is not winning basketball. That is staying afloat in basketball.

It's gotten worse in the playoffs, where the Hawks have been positively pounced with Young, even counting the memorable 2021 run, shooting barely 40% including 29% from 3 over 37 career playoff games. Shooting isn't everything, of course. Young's threat level remains high, and he has averaged huge numbers in two of his three postseasons (roughly 29 points and 10 assists). But this only further begs the question if he's ultimately a good-stats-bad-team guy, as most of the evidence to this point has suggested.

This year, he has an honest chance to flip that script. Nobody is saying the Hawks are a contender (although in this Eastern Conference, you can't rule anything out), but this is a good team. More importantly, it's a team that has been built specifically to serve Young.

Let's start with the most important piece: Jalen Johnson will be back after suffering a torn labrum 36 games into last season. Johnson is a budding All-Star with whom Young has a clear chemistry; last season Atlanta outscored opponents by more than six points per 100 possessions with those two on the floor together, per CTG, with a 74th percentile defense. That's encouraging.

You know what would be nice? If Young actually shot above league average from 3, which he hasn't done for his career and hasn't come close to doing in two of the last three seasons. Would it kill him to move a little when he doesn't have the ball? Steph Curry didn't come into the league with a body for defense, but he has transformed himself physically and become a passable, if not good, defender. Is Young not willing to put in the same work?

The point is, Young has a part in all this losing. And now he's out of excuses. The Hawks are expected to offer him a max extension, and the simple truth is that if you keep handing out max money to good-stats-bad-team guys, you're going to be a losing team. There's a reason, after all, that there wasn't much of a trade market for Young when it was pretty clear the Hawks would've been open to moving him last summer. Because nobody knows if he's a winning player. In about four months, he's going to have the best opportunity of his career to answer that question.
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Re: The Trae Young Dilemma 

Post#219 » by jayu70 » Fri Jul 11, 2025 4:55 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:The annual hit piece from Brad Botkin at CBS Sports:

Trae Young is out of excuses

If Trae Young can't win with this team, he might be the problem

Image

No player is in total control of everything, or even, to some degree, anything around them. All that said, I'll say this about Trae Young: If he can't deliver consistent wins with the support staff with which the Hawks have outfitted him for this upcoming season, he might be the problem.

Building around a star like Young is, at once, challenging and straightforward. Give him shooting, a big man to throw lobs to and an insulating defense, and he can pretty much do the rest. Same goes for Luka Doncic, and every other defensively deficient, ball-dominant, center-of-the-universe point guard. It's a player archetype that has come into great question in recent years, and for good reason.

Gone are all the good feels that came with Atlanta's surprise run to the 2021 conference finals, when Young was seemingly on track to take center stage as one of the league's premier playoff performers. Since that run, the Hawks have gone 160-168. They fired a coach and barely improved with a new one. They made a huge trade for Dejounte Murray that went totally bust. They've missed the playoffs entirely in two of the last four seasons, and went out with a first-round whimper (3-8 in two series vs. Boston and Miami) in the other two.

Young's prints are on all of this. He's played in at least 73 games in three of the last four years, and it's not as though Atlanta hasn't had talent around him. Young has played with prime Murray and a borderline All-Star in John Collins. Clint Capela, Bogdan Bogdanovic, DeAndre Hunter, Kevin Heurter, Onyeka Okongwu, emerging star Jalen Johnson, Defensive Player of the Year runner-up Dyson Daniels, and plenty of other good NBA players, including 2024 No. 1 overall pick Zaccharie Risacher, who was quietly really good down the stretch last year, have been Young's teammates as well.

Still, the Hawks have managed just a plus-3.5 combined net rating over the last four years (almost 21,000 non-garbage possessions) with Young on the floor, per Cleaning the Glass, with an upper-class offense and a lower-class defense. That is not winning basketball. That is staying afloat in basketball.

It's gotten worse in the playoffs, where the Hawks have been positively pounced with Young, even counting the memorable 2021 run, shooting barely 40% including 29% from 3 over 37 career playoff games. Shooting isn't everything, of course. Young's threat level remains high, and he has averaged huge numbers in two of his three postseasons (roughly 29 points and 10 assists). But this only further begs the question if he's ultimately a good-stats-bad-team guy, as most of the evidence to this point has suggested.

This year, he has an honest chance to flip that script. Nobody is saying the Hawks are a contender (although in this Eastern Conference, you can't rule anything out), but this is a good team. More importantly, it's a team that has been built specifically to serve Young.

Let's start with the most important piece: Jalen Johnson will be back after suffering a torn labrum 36 games into last season. Johnson is a budding All-Star with whom Young has a clear chemistry; last season Atlanta outscored opponents by more than six points per 100 possessions with those two on the floor together, per CTG, with a 74th percentile defense. That's encouraging.

You know what would be nice? If Young actually shot above league average from 3, which he hasn't done for his career and hasn't come close to doing in two of the last three seasons. Would it kill him to move a little when he doesn't have the ball? Steph Curry didn't come into the league with a body for defense, but he has transformed himself physically and become a passable, if not good, defender. Is Young not willing to put in the same work?

The point is, Young has a part in all this losing. And now he's out of excuses. The Hawks are expected to offer him a max extension, and the simple truth is that if you keep handing out max money to good-stats-bad-team guys, you're going to be a losing team. There's a reason, after all, that there wasn't much of a trade market for Young when it was pretty clear the Hawks would've been open to moving him last summer. Because nobody knows if he's a winning player. In about four months, he's going to have the best opportunity of his career to answer that question.
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Talent yes....how much and how good is the difference when compared to others. The LBJs can get the Wades and Boshes or Giannis getting Jrue...who do the Hawks get?
It's funny when those players ask for help the kind of help they get vs what we get.....but suuuuure, it all falls to Trae.
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Re: The Trae Young Dilemma 

Post#220 » by jayu70 » Tue Jul 15, 2025 9:55 am

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