Bucks News, Transactions and Trade Ideas - 2025 Off-season

[MickeyDavis]

Biggest thing people complain about (rightfully), botched pick after botched pick by Horst. So let's trade Giannis because MOOOOOOORE picks for Horst. And a player or two who who will never be in the same atmosphere as Giannis. Hell, I listed all of the botched lottery picks by this organization going back 30 years. Pass.

ETA, these are just lottery picks, we all know the other first round blunders.

Thon Maker
Jabari Parker
John Henson
Jimmer Fredette (traded)
Joe Alexander
Yi Jianlian
T.J. Ford
Marcus Haislip

We didn't say we wanted Horst re-signed

No one did. Yet since he was re-signed there are still some calls to trade Giannis to give Horst more picks.

[fansinceforever]

So the Bucks can't rebuild with draft picks but we trust Horst to maximize Giannis' last two years with no cap, almost no assets and very little talent currently on the roster?

And we're keeping Giannis around for the vibes?

Oh, and Giannis will not age at all in the next two seasons where we subject him to some of the most meaningless basketball of his career.

[th87]

the argument not to trade giannis because whats the point of a young team with a 2nd round ceiling is literally the craziest motive for not trading him i could ever imagine.

isnt a young team with a 2nd round ceiling like the perfect running start to the next chapter?

In 2050, no one will remember or care whether the 2031 Bucks went 47-35 and got bounced by Boston in 5, or that they went 40-42 and got bounced by Boston in 4 a round earlier.

What they will remember is Giannis valiantly carrying the team for as long as he could and maybe breaking through when we hired a good coach.

[ReasonablySober]

So the Bucks can't rebuild with draft picks but we trust Horst to maximize Giannis' last two years with no cap, almost no assets and very little talent currently on the roster?

And we're keeping Giannis around for the vibes?

Oh, and Giannis will not age at all in the next two seasons where we subject him to some of the most meaningless basketball of his career.

I legitimately don't understand why more people here don't consider that point extremely sad. The last couple seasons were painful to watch, and it's only going to get worse. For all the love you claim to have for Giannis, you want him to waste the remaining prime of his career playing absolutely meaningless basketball for a loser.

[th87]

So the Bucks can't rebuild with draft picks but we trust Horst to maximize Giannis' last two years with no cap, almost no assets and very little talent currently on the roster?

And we're keeping Giannis around for the vibes?

Oh, and Giannis will not age at all in the next two seasons where we subject him to some of the most meaningless basketball of his career.

There is at least some historical precedent for this.

A team with an innovative coach, and cast-offs/second rounders like Bledsoe, Lopez, PC, and Brogdon as your role players almost won a title.

[th87]

So the Bucks can't rebuild with draft picks but we trust Horst to maximize Giannis' last two years with no cap, almost no assets and very little talent currently on the roster?

And we're keeping Giannis around for the vibes?

Oh, and Giannis will not age at all in the next two seasons where we subject him to some of the most meaningless basketball of his career.

I legitimately don't understand why more people here don't consider that point extremely sad. The last couple seasons were painful to watch, and it's only going to get worse. For all the love you claim to have for Giannis, you want him to waste the remaining prime of his career playing absolutely meaningless basketball for a loser.

This team was painful to watch because of its coach, not because of its players.

Atkinson would have this team humming, and we'd be trouncing Indiana by now.

So of course, the solution to that is to throw the entire family out with the bathwater.

[ReasonablySober]

So the Bucks can't rebuild with draft picks but we trust Horst to maximize Giannis' last two years with no cap, almost no assets and very little talent currently on the roster?

And we're keeping Giannis around for the vibes?

Oh, and Giannis will not age at all in the next two seasons where we subject him to some of the most meaningless basketball of his career.

I legitimately don't understand why more people here don't consider that point extremely sad. The last couple seasons were painful to watch, and it's only going to get worse. For all the love you claim to have for Giannis, you want him to waste the remaining prime of his career playing absolutely meaningless basketball for a loser.

This team was painful to watch because of its coach, not because of its players.

Atkinson would have this team humming, and we'd be trouncing Indiana by now.

So of course, the solution to that is to throw the entire family out with the bathwater.

Yea, I don't believe that at all. The best coach in the world isn't fixing the Bucks' primary issue, which is that they're an old team and they lack talented depth everywhere.

[th87]

15 year NBA draft pick analysis.

#1 Pick

Spoiler:

2024 Risacher
2023 Wemby
2022 Paolo
2021 Cade
2020 ANT
2019 Zion
2018 Ayton
2017 Fultz
2016 Simmons
2015 KAT
2014 Wiggins
2013 Bennet
2012 AD
2011 Kyrie
2010 Wall

#2 Pick

Spoiler:

2024 Sarr
2023 Brandon Miller
2022 Chet
2021 Jalen Green
2020 Wiseman
2019 Ja
2018 Bagley
2017 Lonzo
2016 BI
2015 D’Angelo Russell
2014 Jabari
2013 Oladipo
2012 MKG
2011 Derrick Williams
2010 Evan Turner

#3 pick

Spoiler:

2024 Reed
2023 Scoot Henderson
2022 Jabari Smith
2021 Mobley
2020 Lamelo
2019 RJ Barrett
2018 Luka
2017 Jayson Tatum
2016 Jaylen Brown
2015 Okafor
2014 Embiid
2013 Otto Porter
2012 Beal
2011 Kanter
2010 Favors

#4 Pick

Spoiler:

2024 Stephon Castle
2023 Amen Thompson
2022 Keegan Murray
2021 Scottie Barnes
2020 Patrick Williams
2019 Deandre Hunter
2018 Jaren Jackson
2017 Josh Jackson
2016 Dragan Bender
2015 Kristaps
2014 Aaron Gordon
2013 Cody Zeller
2012 Dion Waiters
2011 Tristan Thompson
2010 Wesley Johnson

#5 Pick

Spoiler:

2024 Ron Holland
2023 Ausar Thompson
2022 Jaden Ivey
2021 Jalen Suggs
2020 Isaac Okoro
2019 Darius Garland
2018 Trae Young
2017 Deaaron Fox
2016 Kris Dunn
2015 Mario Hezonja
2014 Dante Exum
2013 Alex Len
2012 Thomas Robinson
2011 Jonas Valanciunas
2010 Demarcus Cousins

#6 Pick

Spoiler:

2024 Salaun
2023 Anthony Black
2022 Mathurin
2021 Josh Giddey
2020 Onyeka Okongwu
2019 Jarrett Culver
2018 Mo Bamba
2017 Jonathan Isaac
2016 Buddy Hield
2015 Willie Cayley-Stein
2014 Marcus Smart
2013 Nerlens Noel
2012 Damian Lillard
2011 Jan Vesely
2010 Ekpe Udoh

#7 Pick

Spoiler:

2024 Donovan Clingan
2023 Bilal Coulibaly
2022 Shaedon Sharpe
2021 Kuminga
2020 Killian Hayes
2019 Coby White
2018 Wendell Carter
2017 Lauri Markkanen
2016 Jamal Murray
2015 Emmanuel Mudiay
2014 Julius Randle
2013 Ben Mclemore
2012 Harrison Barnes
2011 Bismack Biyombo
2010 Greg Monroe

#8 Pick

Spoiler:

2024 Rob Dillingham
2023 Jarace Walker
2022 Dyson Daniels
2021 Franz Wagner
2020 Obi Toppin
2019 Jaxson Hayes
2018 Collin Sexton
2017 Frank Ntilinkina
2016 Marquese Chriss
2015 Stanley Johnson
2014 Nik Stauskas
2013 KCP
2012 Terrence Ross
2011 Brandon Knight
2010 Al Farouq-Aminu

Takeaways

Some of this is hard to do, because we don’t know how good the most recent draft picks are going to be, but I wanted to include all the drafts, because I think you see flashes early like we did with Giannis.

You can certainly argue the order, but I don’t think the values of the guys below drastically change if you swap a couple dudes around.

Median pick
#1 KAT
#2 D’Angelo Russell
#3 RJ Barrett
#4 Deandre Hunter
#5 Ausar Thompson
#6 Benedict Mathurin
#7 Greg Monroe
#8 Terrence Ross

The #1 pick has far and away more value than the others (and KAT still isn’t a franchise player), but unless you are assured that’s the pick you are getting (2025 draft), then even getting “juicy” picks, that I see so often included in packages for Giannis, isn’t likely to net a franchise player.

I took the median, because we often get enamored with what a pick could be, rather than what it’s likeliest to be. I’d say you are no more likely to end up with a player better than each of the above than you are a worse player. It’s the mid point.

If you want to trade Giannis for anything other than a package that has Flagg in it, please comb through the player lists above.

I'm also old enough to remember when KAT was a cant-miss prospect and people here were okay trading Giannis for him (thinking possibly the same people).

[Iheartfootball]

I'll tell them it was because the Bucks were a terribly run organization and the only way out was to rebuild. Not a hard discussion to have, unless you're having it with a bunch of fans who care about stuff like legacies of guys who make hundreds of millions of dollars.

You're acting like being a fan is purely logical, as if emotion doesn't play a central role—and I don't buy it. If that were true, none of us would be here debating the Bucks, Brewers, Packers, or Badgers with the level of passion we bring.

Disappointment is part of the deal. Managing it is healthy. But pretending it doesn’t exist or brushing it off with cynicism? That energy doesn’t disappear, it just leaks out somewhere else.

*edited for editing

[th87]

I legitimately don't understand why more people here don't consider that point extremely sad. The last couple seasons were painful to watch, and it's only going to get worse. For all the love you claim to have for Giannis, you want him to waste the remaining prime of his career playing absolutely meaningless basketball for a loser.

This team was painful to watch because of its coach, not because of its players.

Atkinson would have this team humming, and we'd be trouncing Indiana by now.

So of course, the solution to that is to throw the entire family out with the bathwater.

Yea, I don't believe that at all. The best coach in the world isn't fixing the Bucks' primary issue, which is that they're an old team and they lack talented depth everywhere.

They only became "too old" when Griffin and Doc put them in positions to fail.

Before Giannis hurt his back against Miami, this was a near 60-win 1 seed looking ahead to NY/Boston with a solid shot to win. (And still may have if Matthews covered Butler and went under screens.)

Did they all somehow simultaneously become cooked in a calendar year? Including Dame coming off a great season?

[ReasonablySober]

I'll tell them it was because the Bucks were a terribly run organization and the only way out was to rebuild. Not a hard discussion to have, unless you're having it with a bunch of fans who care about stuff like legacies of guys who make hundreds of millions of dollars.

You're acting as if being a fan has no emotion attached to it, and I don't believe you. Considering how attached you (and pretty much everyone who posts on this board) are to the Bucks, Brewers, Badgers, Packers, etc.

You're acting like being a fan is purely logical, as if emotion doesn't play a central role—and I don't buy it. If that were true, none of us would be here debating the Bucks, Brewers, Packers, or Badgers with the level of passion we bring.

Disappointment is part of the deal. Managing it is healthy. But pretending it doesn’t exist or brushing it off with cynicism? That energy doesn’t disappear, it just leaks out somewhere else.

I enjoy being a fan because of the hope aspect. It's why I love the NFL draft and college football, and I spend all summer watching and paying attention to Brewers minor league baseball. I don't see any path to hope with this Bucks team. Not since I realized that Dame and Giannis weren't going to work, and that the top of the East had passed them by. If I don't have hope, I don't see a reason to care.

[tedbrogen]

So the Bucks can't rebuild with draft picks but we trust Horst to maximize Giannis' last two years with no cap, almost no assets and very little talent currently on the roster?

And we're keeping Giannis around for the vibes?

Oh, and Giannis will not age at all in the next two seasons where we subject him to some of the most meaningless basketball of his career.

There is at least some historical precedent for this.

A team with an innovative coach, and cast-offs/second rounders like Bledsoe, Lopez, PC, and Brogdon as your role players almost won a title.

The problems Doc will very likely be the coach for the next two seasons.

[emunney]

Hope is for teams that don't have a Giannis.

[th87]

So the Bucks can't rebuild with draft picks but we trust Horst to maximize Giannis' last two years with no cap, almost no assets and very little talent currently on the roster?

And we're keeping Giannis around for the vibes?

Oh, and Giannis will not age at all in the next two seasons where we subject him to some of the most meaningless basketball of his career.

There is at least some historical precedent for this.

A team with an innovative coach, and cast-offs/second rounders like Bledsoe, Lopez, PC, and Brogdon as your role players almost won a title.

The problems Doc will very likely be the coach for the next two seasons.

This does not warrant using a permanent non-solution to solve a temporary problem.

[tedbrogen]

It’s funny that some are ignoring a good number of people are specifically saying to trade Giannis IF you get the Flagg pick. That removes all or most of the ability for Horst to screw up the drafting part of it.

It also puts you on a theoretical trajectory greater than the Magic since Flagg >>>>> Paolo.imo

And again, coaching a young team with no superstars is literally the one single thing Doc has demonstrated to be somewhat skillful at. So in a scenario where it seems like Horst and Doc are in place for at least the next two seasons (seems almost a certainty at this point) AND the Flagg pick is available in a Giannis trade (seems at least possible at this point), I’d do it and at least part of the motivation is to set Giannis free since this team will be first round ceiling the next two years.

[German Athens]

I think Doc is a horrible coach, but I also think he’ll be better next year if Horst brings in more talent that’s similar to what we had in game 5.

Basically Doc proof the roster which I suppose also says nothing about Doc’s ability to coach.

Shooting, ability to move in space, not a coward on the court.

[BUCKnation]

Im fine being mid with Giannis tbh. The non giannis years in the near term don’t seem great

[ReasonablySober]

It’s funny that some are ignoring a good number of people are specifically saying to trade Giannis IF you get the Flagg pick. That removes all or most of the ability for Horst to screw up the drafting part of it.

It also puts you on a theoretical trajectory greater than the Magic since Flagg >>>>> Paolo.imo

And again, coaching a young team with no superstars is literally the one single thing Doc has demonstrated to be somewhat skillful at. So in a scenario where it seems like Horst and Doc are in place for at least the next two seasons (seems almost a certainty at this point) AND the Flagg pick is available in a Giannis trade (seems at least possible at this point), I’d do it and at least part of the motivation is to set Giannis free since this team will be first round ceiling the next two years.

Right. No one is saying trade him a bunch of mid round picks. I'm on record saying the Rockets offer has to START with Thompson, and that's far from enough. The Phoenix picks, possibly Tari or Smith Jr.

No one willing to trade Giannis is giving him away.

[th87]

I'll tell them it was because the Bucks were a terribly run organization and the only way out was to rebuild. Not a hard discussion to have, unless you're having it with a bunch of fans who care about stuff like legacies of guys who make hundreds of millions of dollars.

You're acting as if being a fan has no emotion attached to it, and I don't believe you. Considering how attached you (and pretty much everyone who posts on this board) are to the Bucks, Brewers, Badgers, Packers, etc.

You're acting like being a fan is purely logical, as if emotion doesn't play a central role—and I don't buy it. If that were true, none of us would be here debating the Bucks, Brewers, Packers, or Badgers with the level of passion we bring.

Disappointment is part of the deal. Managing it is healthy. But pretending it doesn’t exist or brushing it off with cynicism? That energy doesn’t disappear, it just leaks out somewhere else.

Sports fandom is among the most illogical things to exist. Aliens will be like WTF

We're watching big people (who just temporarily live in our hometown) move quickly to get a toy to a destination and get happy when they can, and sad when they can't.

The current subject of our fandom has transcended this paradigm in unprecedented ways, completely unexpectedly. We should value this as a miraculous gift (and maximize around).

[Iheartfootball]

I'll tell them it was because the Bucks were a terribly run organization and the only way out was to rebuild. Not a hard discussion to have, unless you're having it with a bunch of fans who care about stuff like legacies of guys who make hundreds of millions of dollars.

You're acting as if being a fan has no emotion attached to it, and I don't believe you. Considering how attached you (and pretty much everyone who posts on this board) are to the Bucks, Brewers, Badgers, Packers, etc.

You're acting like being a fan is purely logical, as if emotion doesn't play a central role—and I don't buy it. If that were true, none of us would be here debating the Bucks, Brewers, Packers, or Badgers with the level of passion we bring.

Disappointment is part of the deal. Managing it is healthy. But pretending it doesn’t exist or brushing it off with cynicism? That energy doesn’t disappear, it just leaks out somewhere else.

I enjoy being a fan because of the hope aspect. It's why I love the NFL draft and college football, and I spend all summer watching and paying attention to Brewers minor league baseball. I don't see any path to hope with this Bucks team. Not since I realized that Dame and Giannis weren't going to work, and that the top of the East had passed them by. If I don't have hope, I don't see a reason to care.

But your existence in this thread demonstrates you do care. I say (and I **** hate this cliche but it's true) lean into that. Care. Frankly, apathy is rampant in culture right now and its cousin isolation is killing us. Do the Trainspotting "Choose Life" thing.

Dare. To. Care.

tyvm for coming to my Ted talk.