KD = Which 2025 1st?

[jredsaz]

I just don't see OKC or Houston making KD their all in move and I'm not sure what offer you're looking at from the other 27 teams that equals Jabari, Reed, Green and 9

To be fair Reed and Green are neutral value at best. #9 and Jabari for KD might be too much but it’s close. I’m convinced that Houston wants to move Green this summer for a more consistent scorer. Sheppard was a high pick in a bad draft with mixed physical measurables. He didn’t see the court so hard to define that value.

As far as other teams with similar inventory to offer, Spurs and Heat have young pieces and multiple picks.

I could definitely see the Spurs trade their 2 lotto picks and Sochan to speed up the process a bit. The Heat are also interesting if they offer one of the young guys and a future 1st or 2.

Aren’t these similar offers to the one you’re calling an over pay? And I doubt the Spurs give up both their lottery picks.

[NYG]

To be fair Reed and Green are neutral value at best. #9 and Jabari for KD might be too much but it’s close. I’m convinced that Houston wants to move Green this summer for a more consistent scorer. Sheppard was a high pick in a bad draft with mixed physical measurables. He didn’t see the court so hard to define that value.

As far as other teams with similar inventory to offer, Spurs and Heat have young pieces and multiple picks.

I could definitely see the Spurs trade their 2 lotto picks and Sochan to speed up the process a bit. The Heat are also interesting if they offer one of the young guys and a future 1st or 2.

Aren’t these similar offers to the one you’re calling an over pay? And I doubt the Spurs give up both their lottery picks.

I have Jabari and 9 as worth more than that Heat offer easily. The Spurs probably make a more competitive KD offer than the Rockets would if they can't get Giannis

[jredsaz]

I could definitely see the Spurs trade their 2 lotto picks and Sochan to speed up the process a bit. The Heat are also interesting if they offer one of the young guys and a future 1st or 2.

Aren’t these similar offers to the one you’re calling an over pay? And I doubt the Spurs give up both their lottery picks.

I have Jabari and 9 as worth more than that Heat offer easily. The Spurs probably make a more competitive KD offer than the Rockets would if they can't get Giannis

Jovic/#20/future 1st is easily worse than Jabari/#9?

[LarsV8]

Personally, I am not moving any of Reed, Jabari, Eason, or future picks for Durant. Too old, too expensive, and a shell of the player he once was. Maybe Stone disagrees, but I doubt it. His salary is a problem, his age is risky, and we would be creating a PG problem for ourselves, which I am not quite sure how to solve yet.

Reading individual needs for teams from their forums, a couple of rotation players and two #1s is the best I could do for Phoenix. If they want future picks or younger players or whatever else, then they need to start working the phones to see what future picks and young players they can get for #9 and #16, but that is on them. I think that is fair value, other posters seem too as well. But whatever, Phoenix can pass on it, if they think there is a better deal out there. I frankly, don't see it.

[NYG]

Aren’t these similar offers to the one you’re calling an over pay? And I doubt the Spurs give up both their lottery picks.

I have Jabari and 9 as worth more than that Heat offer easily. The Spurs probably make a more competitive KD offer than the Rockets would if they can't get Giannis

Jovic/#20/future 1st is easily worse than Jabari/#9?

I don't think 20 and a future 1st would land a top 10 pick. I have 9 as easily the best individual asset of both offers.

[jredsaz]

I have Jabari and 9 as worth more than that Heat offer easily. The Spurs probably make a more competitive KD offer than the Rockets would if they can't get Giannis

Jovic/#20/future 1st is easily worse than Jabari/#9?

I don't think 20 and a future 1st would land a top 10 pick. I have 9 as easily the best individual asset of both offers.

That’s fair and it’s why I figure the Rockets would want to keep that over Jabari, Sheppard or Green. What’s the rockets offer without #9 in your opinion?

[jredsaz]

Personally, I am not moving any of Reed, Jabari, Eason, or future picks for Durant. Too old, too expensive, and a shell of the player he once was. Maybe Stone disagrees, but I doubt it. His salary is a problem, his age is risky, and we would be creating a PG problem for ourselves, which I am not quite sure how to solve yet.

Reading individual needs for teams from their forums, a couple of rotation players and two #1s is the best I could do for Phoenix. If they want future picks or younger players or whatever else, then they need to start working the phones to see what future picks and young players they can get for #9 and #16, but that is on them. I think that is fair value, other posters seem too as well. But whatever, Phoenix can pass on it, if they think there is a better deal out there. I frankly, don't see it.

We’ve talked about this but trading FVV instead of those guys makes little sense. Also, not sure why #9 is less valuable that future picks?

[babyjax13]

So the difference between KD and FVV is the #9 pick? I’m not buying that. Jock is included who is a fine player but at $8M is negative value. More value from Houston is needed.

And then, the Rockets get hard capped while almost already capped out.

Yah, I think so. He is expiring, he doesn't want to be there, and he is about to be 37. We'll see, I could be completely off-base.

There is a huge gap in production and a small gap in pay between FVV and Durant. #9 is a good piece but we probably evaluate that differently.

Maybe a pick swap of #9 for #29 and Houston there’s in a future first?

I could see that being a reasonable modification.

[jredsaz]

I just don't see OKC or Houston making KD their all in move and I'm not sure what offer you're looking at from the other 27 teams that equals Jabari, Reed, Green and 9

To be fair Reed and Green are neutral value at best. #9 and Jabari for KD might be too much but it’s close. I’m convinced that Houston wants to move Green this summer for a more consistent scorer. Sheppard was a high pick in a bad draft with mixed physical measurables. He didn’t see the court so hard to define that value.

As far as other teams with similar inventory to offer, Spurs and Heat have young pieces and multiple picks.

Also...

So maybe the Rockets send out Reed and Green for more assets then flip the salary filler with Jabari and 9 gets it closer?

Reed and Green to Team X
Team X Filler, Jabari and 9 to Phoenix
KD and Team X Assets to Houston

At the very least replace Reed with Jock if he isn't providing the Suns value in the deal.

That’s going to have to happen. Neither the Suns or Rockets want to get hard capped. Magic don’t either which makes them as a third team hard to pull off

[jredsaz]

Personally, I am not moving any of Reed, Jabari, Eason, or future picks for Durant. Too old, too expensive, and a shell of the player he once was. Maybe Stone disagrees, but I doubt it. His salary is a problem, his age is risky, and we would be creating a PG problem for ourselves, which I am not quite sure how to solve yet.

Reading individual needs for teams from their forums, a couple of rotation players and two #1s is the best I could do for Phoenix. If they want future picks or younger players or whatever else, then they need to start working the phones to see what future picks and young players they can get for #9 and #16, but that is on them. I think that is fair value, other posters seem too as well. But whatever, Phoenix can pass on it, if they think there is a better deal out there. I frankly, don't see it.

Oh, and your deal leaves the Rockets hardcapped - which isnt an option.

[LarsV8]

Personally, I am not moving any of Reed, Jabari, Eason, or future picks for Durant. Too old, too expensive, and a shell of the player he once was. Maybe Stone disagrees, but I doubt it. His salary is a problem, his age is risky, and we would be creating a PG problem for ourselves, which I am not quite sure how to solve yet.

Reading individual needs for teams from their forums, a couple of rotation players and two #1s is the best I could do for Phoenix. If they want future picks or younger players or whatever else, then they need to start working the phones to see what future picks and young players they can get for #9 and #16, but that is on them. I think that is fair value, other posters seem too as well. But whatever, Phoenix can pass on it, if they think there is a better deal out there. I frankly, don't see it.

Oh, and your deal leaves the Rockets hardcapped - which isnt an option.

What is the trigger for the hard cap?

[jredsaz]

Personally, I am not moving any of Reed, Jabari, Eason, or future picks for Durant. Too old, too expensive, and a shell of the player he once was. Maybe Stone disagrees, but I doubt it. His salary is a problem, his age is risky, and we would be creating a PG problem for ourselves, which I am not quite sure how to solve yet.

Reading individual needs for teams from their forums, a couple of rotation players and two #1s is the best I could do for Phoenix. If they want future picks or younger players or whatever else, then they need to start working the phones to see what future picks and young players they can get for #9 and #16, but that is on them. I think that is fair value, other posters seem too as well. But whatever, Phoenix can pass on it, if they think there is a better deal out there. I frankly, don't see it.

Oh, and your deal leaves the Rockets hardcapped - which isnt an option.

What is the trigger for the hard cap?

Both Houston and Orlando bring in more salary than they send out. That hard caps them at the first apron. Neither could make a trade like this and get hard capped without making pretty significant ancillary trades to save salary and build out a roster.

[giberish]

Personally, I am not moving any of Reed, Jabari, Eason, or future picks for Durant. Too old, too expensive, and a shell of the player he once was. Maybe Stone disagrees, but I doubt it. His salary is a problem, his age is risky, and we would be creating a PG problem for ourselves, which I am not quite sure how to solve yet.

Reading individual needs for teams from their forums, a couple of rotation players and two #1s is the best I could do for Phoenix. If they want future picks or younger players or whatever else, then they need to start working the phones to see what future picks and young players they can get for #9 and #16, but that is on them. I think that is fair value, other posters seem too as well. But whatever, Phoenix can pass on it, if they think there is a better deal out there. I frankly, don't see it.

Oh, and your deal leaves the Rockets hardcapped - which isnt an option.

Houston's got a lot of rookie contract guys still in their rotation. Would being hard-capped for the year at the 1st apron really be a problem? Especially if they decline the TO and work out a long-term deal with FVV (at lower $$/yr then his TO).

[jredsaz]

Personally, I am not moving any of Reed, Jabari, Eason, or future picks for Durant. Too old, too expensive, and a shell of the player he once was. Maybe Stone disagrees, but I doubt it. His salary is a problem, his age is risky, and we would be creating a PG problem for ourselves, which I am not quite sure how to solve yet.

Reading individual needs for teams from their forums, a couple of rotation players and two #1s is the best I could do for Phoenix. If they want future picks or younger players or whatever else, then they need to start working the phones to see what future picks and young players they can get for #9 and #16, but that is on them. I think that is fair value, other posters seem too as well. But whatever, Phoenix can pass on it, if they think there is a better deal out there. I frankly, don't see it.

Oh, and your deal leaves the Rockets hardcapped - which isnt an option.

Houston's got a lot of rookie contract guys still in their rotation. Would being hard-capped for the year at the 1st apron really be a problem? Especially if they decline the TO and work out a long-term deal with FVV (at lower $$/yr then his TO).

In the trade we are discussing, FVV is moved as the salary ballast. Really puts the Rockets up against that hard cap if they can’t renegotiate FVV.

[K_chile22]

Oh, and your deal leaves the Rockets hardcapped - which isnt an option.

Houston's got a lot of rookie contract guys still in their rotation. Would being hard-capped for the year at the 1st apron really be a problem? Especially if they decline the TO and work out a long-term deal with FVV (at lower $$/yr then his TO).

In the trade we are discussing, FVV is moved as the salary ballast. Really puts the Rockets up against that hard cap if they can’t renegotiate FVV.

They'd be fine after waiving non guaranteed guys but they'd likely lose Adams

[giberish]

Oh, and your deal leaves the Rockets hardcapped - which isnt an option.

Houston's got a lot of rookie contract guys still in their rotation. Would being hard-capped for the year at the 1st apron really be a problem? Especially if they decline the TO and work out a long-term deal with FVV (at lower $$/yr then his TO).

In the trade we are discussing, FVV is moved as the salary ballast. Really puts the Rockets up against that hard cap if they can’t renegotiate FVV.

OK

Of course trading FVV in a KD deal is really stupid. He's necessary for Houston, and adding KD doesn't mean you don't need a PG.

IMO Brooks has to be the main salary filler in a KD to Houston deal. FVV's essential to Houston and Pheonix won't want a SG in return. Houston's got forward depth and would be adding KD so Brooks is very movable - and he'd be useful with the suns.

Then it's just assets and secondary salary filler. Whitmore's probably moved as he'd help Phoenix some but isn't needed in Houston. Landale as salary matching (ideally dumped on a 3rd team with a TPE and room under the tax line). Then 1 or 2 main assets between #9, future PHX 1st, Smith, Eason, Sheppard.

[jredsaz]

Houston's got a lot of rookie contract guys still in their rotation. Would being hard-capped for the year at the 1st apron really be a problem? Especially if they decline the TO and work out a long-term deal with FVV (at lower $$/yr then his TO).

In the trade we are discussing, FVV is moved as the salary ballast. Really puts the Rockets up against that hard cap if they can’t renegotiate FVV.

They'd be fine after waiving non guaranteed guys but they'd likely lose Adams

In Lairs trade Rockets would have a payroll +/- $192M with a hard cap +/- $197M and that doesn’t count the roster, draft pick or cap holds.

[NYG]

Jovic/#20/future 1st is easily worse than Jabari/#9?

I don't think 20 and a future 1st would land a top 10 pick. I have 9 as easily the best individual asset of both offers.

That’s fair and it’s why I figure the Rockets would want to keep that over Jabari, Sheppard or Green. What’s the rockets offer without #9 in your opinion?

The thing with Houston and OKC that's tough with a guy like KD is neither team has much "filler salary" as pretty much every player under contract is useful so matching a salary as large as KD's inherently has them bidding against themselves just to match as multiple good players would need to be outgoing.

[Slim Charless]

Houston's got a lot of rookie contract guys still in their rotation. Would being hard-capped for the year at the 1st apron really be a problem? Especially if they decline the TO and work out a long-term deal with FVV (at lower $$/yr then his TO).

In the trade we are discussing, FVV is moved as the salary ballast. Really puts the Rockets up against that hard cap if they can’t renegotiate FVV.

OK

Of course trading FVV in a KD deal is really stupid. He's necessary for Houston, and adding KD doesn't mean you don't need a PG.

IMO Brooks has to be the main salary filler in a KD to Houston deal. FVV's essential to Houston and Pheonix won't want a SG in return. Houston's got forward depth and would be adding KD so Brooks is very movable - and he'd be useful with the suns.

Then it's just assets and secondary salary filler. Whitmore's probably moved as he'd help Phoenix some but isn't needed in Houston. Landale as salary matching (ideally dumped on a 3rd team with a TPE and room under the tax line). Then 1 or 2 main assets between #9, future PHX 1st, Smith, Eason, Sheppard.

I think the easiest way out of this is using Green as oppossed to FVV. With Durant you'll be in win now mode and will need a vet PG, meanwhile you can replicate Green chucker scoring with Whitmore at a fraction of the price. Dallas OTOH, needs a scorer like Green and can give up stuff to PHX in a 3 way:

Dallas: Gafford/Klay/2026 FRP-to PHX

PHX: Durant/#31-to HOU

HOU: Green-to Dallas
Jabari/Reed/#9/2027 FRP returned-to PHX

That math works, as does the value.

[jayjaysee]

In the trade we are discussing, FVV is moved as the salary ballast. Really puts the Rockets up against that hard cap if they can’t renegotiate FVV.

OK

Of course trading FVV in a KD deal is really stupid. He's necessary for Houston, and adding KD doesn't mean you don't need a PG.

IMO Brooks has to be the main salary filler in a KD to Houston deal. FVV's essential to Houston and Pheonix won't want a SG in return. Houston's got forward depth and would be adding KD so Brooks is very movable - and he'd be useful with the suns.

Then it's just assets and secondary salary filler. Whitmore's probably moved as he'd help Phoenix some but isn't needed in Houston. Landale as salary matching (ideally dumped on a 3rd team with a TPE and room under the tax line). Then 1 or 2 main assets between #9, future PHX 1st, Smith, Eason, Sheppard.

I think the easiest way out of this is using Green as oppossed to FVV. With Durant you'll be in win now mode and will need a vet PG, meanwhile you can replicate Green chucker scoring with Whitmore at a fraction of the price. Dallas OTOH, needs a scorer like Green and can give up stuff to PHX in a 3 way:

Dallas: Gafford/Klay/2026 FRP-to PHX

PHX: Durant/#31-to HOU

HOU: Green-to Dallas
Jabari/Reed/#9/2027 FRP returned-to PHX

That math works, as does the value.

Luckily Dallas can’t trade a 2026 first. Dallas can replicate Green’s chucker scoring without trading a first.

I do think you could have just pawned Green off on Dallas if Phoenix didn’t want him.

It’s still obviously very Phoenix favored valuation for KD without the Dallas first.. But that’s between Houston and Phoenix and has nothing to do with Dallas being added to bleed more value for Phoenix.

This was just a response on Green and how I really doubt he’s worth a first.