2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6

[Jerry Lucas]

If Toronto were to get the #4 pick and Cooper Flagg, Dylan Harper and VJ Edgecombe were already selected, who would you prefer as our pick?

Ace Bailey
Khaman Maluach
Derik Queen
Kon Knueppel
Jeremiah Fears
Tre Johnson
Jase Richardson
Kaspars Jakucionis

I think you gotta swing on potential and go with Ace.

I think Masai would pick either Queen or Kasparas 4th over Ace.

[Indeed]

I've been tiering prospects this year based on their current or reasonably projectable ability to be a positive in three areas

1) Defense
2) On-Ball Scoring
3) Off-Ball Scoring

For instance, Cooper can already do all three so he's in his own tier. There is a reasonable pathway for Harper and VJ to do all three so they are in my second tier. Then, there is a group of guys in my second tier in no particular order:

Jakucionis (2,3)
Fears (2,3)
Bailey (1,3)
Maluach (1,3)
Bryant (1,3)

I would take any of these guys (based on team need) over the following:

Queen (2)
Knueppel (3)
Johnson (3)
CMB (1)

My top two targets if we don't get a top three pick would be Maluach and Carter Bryant. Maluach would be my first choice since he's in the same tier but has an easier pathway to minutes/development.





Sent from my Pixel 6 using RealGM mobile app

Not sure I agree.

Someone like Fears can claim to be off ball, while Queen is not. Same thing for Knueppel with him providing PnR for Maluach to be a lob threat. Cooper is also not quiet on ball.

The level of on ball and off ball should be more detailed. Such as Bailey should not be the same level as Bryant, as Bailey showed more self creation.

[mtcan]

If Toronto were to get the #4 pick and Cooper Flagg, Dylan Harper and VJ Edgecombe were already selected, who would you prefer as our pick?

Ace Bailey
Khaman Maluach
Derik Queen
Kon Knueppel
Jeremiah Fears
Tre Johnson
Jase Richardson
Kaspars Jakucionis

Ace for sure. 6'9-6'10 shot maker. Teach him shot discipline and adjust the shot diet.

[deeps6x]

If Toronto were to get the #4 pick and Cooper Flagg, Dylan Harper and VJ Edgecombe were already selected, who would you prefer as our pick?

Ace Bailey
Khaman Maluach
Derik Queen
Kon Knueppel
Jeremiah Fears
Tre Johnson
Jase Richardson
Kaspars Jakucionis

Trade down for 8 and 14. You still get one of the players above, but you can also get one of
Flemming
Nique
Traore
Bryant
Beringer
or whomever Masai and Bobby think can help the team the most.

ALL of these players at the top and bottom are flawed. Some in many ways. Its kind of a crapshoot after the top two are chosen. Might as well double your odds with two lottery picks.

[Ell Curry]

I've been tiering prospects this year based on their current or reasonably projectable ability to be a positive in three areas

1) Defense
2) On-Ball Scoring
3) Off-Ball Scoring

For instance, Cooper can already do all three so he's in his own tier. There is a reasonable pathway for Harper and VJ to do all three so they are in my second tier. Then, there is a group of guys in my second tier in no particular order:

Jakucionis (2,3)
Fears (2,3)
Bailey (1,3)
Maluach (1,3)
Bryant (1,3)

I would take any of these guys (based on team need) over the following:

Queen (2)
Knueppel (3)
Johnson (3)
CMB (1)

My top two targets if we don't get a top three pick would be Maluach and Carter Bryant. Maluach would be my first choice since he's in the same tier but has an easier pathway to minutes/development.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using RealGM mobile app

Good way to think of things. I kinda disagree with a few of these, though:

Queen - I could see the off-ball shooting being good, he looked like he doesn't even have a real 3pt jumper developed yet but has fantastically soft touch that helped him make a couple in the tourney, so it might take some time to get there. And he has the strength to be a good screener. I'm not a huge fan of his type of player, but I think the path to off-ball scoring is there. He doesn't bend his legs on D, so I'm lower on that end, but maybe he slims down and gains flexibility?

Knueppel - Good strength and deceleration so might be okay on-ball with screens set for him, like a poor man's Luka.

Jakucionis - I worry about his on ball scoring, just seemed to have trouble against good athletes.

[Raptorfan2012]

If Toronto were to get the #4 pick and Cooper Flagg, Dylan Harper and VJ Edgecombe were already selected, who would you prefer as our pick?

Ace Bailey
Khaman Maluach
Derik Queen
Kon Knueppel
Jeremiah Fears
Tre Johnson
Jase Richardson
Kaspars Jakucionis

Trade down for 8 and 14. You still get one of the players above, but you can also get one of
Flemming
Nique
Traore
Bryant
Beringer
or whomever Masai and Bobby think can help the team the most.

ALL of these players at the top and bottom are flawed. Some in many ways. Its kind of a crapshoot after the top two are chosen. Might as well double your odds with two lottery picks.

Why would anyone trade us both 8 and 14; big assumptions this deal is available

[dohboy_24]

Maluach for me. I have more faith in Khaman shooting threes one day than Ace becoming a better driver/decision maker

Same. Other than Cooper Flagg and Dylan Harper, Khaman arguably has the highest ceiling in the draft. Even if the Raptors got the #3 pick and it was a choice between Khaman, Ace, and VJ - I'd still prefer KM's size, length, mobility, and upside other either of them.

[ArthurVandelay]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=PSy3Ch7pvG4ybe2MpvWFcw

Klutch do a great job of creating hype for their clients

[Syd-TK3]

If Toronto were to get the #4 pick and Cooper Flagg, Dylan Harper and VJ Edgecombe were already selected, who would you prefer as our pick?

Ace Bailey
Khaman Maluach
Derik Queen
Kon Knueppel
Jeremiah Fears
Tre Johnson
Jase Richardson
Kaspars Jakucionis

I think you gotta swing on potential and go with Ace.

I think Masai would pick either Queen or Kasparas 4th over Ace.

Would be ridiculous

[Raptors Realtor]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=PSy3Ch7pvG4ybe2MpvWFcw

Klutch do a great job of creating hype for their clients

He's got a nice stroke, you can see he needs to work on his dribbling, especially with his left.

[Clutch0z24]

Again guys are falling in love with open gym footage.....In an open gym all NBA level players look like Khaman is looking in that video....Yes even big men....Thats why Wiseman went #2 to the Warriors because Scouts fell in love with him during open gym workouts because he looks like a monster/Embiid lite in an open gym setting....I am not saying he can't one day shoot the ball but he has not Shown he can do it consistantly in a game yet for long stretches....He has barley any Mid range jumpshots all year which is a concern.....It will take a long while for him to develop a competent NBA range 3 point shot.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

James Wiseman ^ After seeing the open Gym you think thats Embiid...

His shot is not broken at all and could develop but for him to be an actual in game 3 point shooter and if you wanna be a winning team and actually feel confident in him taking 3s without hurting your team hes going to have to take years of development....Hes not going to look like he looks in an open Gym during reg NBA games....Just like Wiseman who looks like a monster in workouts. There is a chance it does not translate....

Big men like Maluach are the scariest type of player to take a gamble on with a top pick....Raw offensive bigs are my big No/No picks....Id take a flyer on Maluach though if all the players i like ahead of him are off the board already....But Maluach has the biggest risk of ending up with a not so good player after a year of tanking....Its high risk high reward type of player.

[Godaddycurse]

I think you gotta swing on potential and go with Ace.

I think Masai would pick either Queen or Kasparas 4th over Ace.

Would be ridiculous

you take ace and just trade down then

[TimeForChange]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=PSy3Ch7pvG4ybe2MpvWFcw

Klutch do a great job of creating hype for their clients

Agreed. Klutch and ESPN have a great relationship.

This is all Klutch hype.

[Thaddy]

Maluach's blocking rate and rim protection isn't cemented at all. He was pretty bad at the college level at that regard. I don't think his size, run, jump, and athletic tools are enough to risk a top 10 pick on him. Substance wise you would probably consider Queen before him, even though he's a few years older. I don't see Maluach ever getting the foot work Queen has. If their agility stats are similar (should skew towards Queen) I would go with Queen. An older rookie might not be that bad considering where we are in our retool.

[nivisi9]

What is the ceiling assessment for Tre Johnson?

Just finished listening to Vecenie new Mock Draft Pod and talk about him having one of the best workouts he's ever seen both Focus/effort/shooting display.

Vecenie sharing that much of an impression on Tre after watching him work on his game could be hidden insight into how much his capable of improving long term. You don't hear that often "one of best workouts he's ever seen"

Combining that with the elite raw tools he already possess

-Ideal wings size + length

- Elite shooting ability (most valuable skill in the league)

- Highly efficient/high volume spot up 3pt potential

- NBA ready offensive game

- Vicenie suggests Should be at 7-8 3PA within first couple yrs he's that good of a shooter.

-played in terrible situation + too much responsibility at Texas as a freshman = likely contributed to shot selection concerns

- Raptors desperate for offense + shooting

- Vecenie mentioned he's driven and mature and to remember he's still a kid and really cares (they mentioned complaints about body language at times)

It sounds like a team like the Raptors would be perfect situation to get him at his higher ceiling outcomes..

How would a prime Rashard Lewis with more drive/killer instinct fit in with Scottie/BI/Quickley/Poeltl/RJ etc. core?

[mtcan]

Again guys are falling in love with open gym footage.....In an open gym all NBA level players look like Khaman is looking in that video....Yes even big men....Thats why Wiseman went #2 to the Warriors because Scouts fell in love with him during open gym workouts because he looks like a monster/Embiid lite in an open gym setting....I am not saying he can't one day shoot the ball but he has not Shown he can do it consistantly in a game yet for long stretches....He has barley any Mid range jumpshots all year which is a concern.....It will take a long while for him to develop a competent NBA range 3 point shot.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

James Wiseman ^ After seeing the open Gym you think thats Embiid...

His shot is not broken at all and could develop but for him to be an actual in game 3 point shooter and if you wanna be a winning team and actually feel confident in him taking 3s without hurting your team hes going to have to take years of development....Hes not going to look like he looks in an open Gym during reg NBA games....Just like Wiseman who looks like a monster in workouts. There is a chance it does not translate....

Big men like Maluach are the scariest type of player to take a gamble on with a top pick....Raw offensive bigs are my big No/No picks....Id take a flyer on Maluach though if all the players i like ahead of him are off the board already....But Maluach has the biggest risk of ending up with a not so good player after a year of tanking....Its high risk high reward type of player.

Again...you are only looking at Duke footage. Look back at his BAL and Olympics footage when the coaches didn't restrict his role.

[Clutch0z24]

Again guys are falling in love with open gym footage.....In an open gym all NBA level players look like Khaman is looking in that video....Yes even big men....Thats why Wiseman went #2 to the Warriors because Scouts fell in love with him during open gym workouts because he looks like a monster/Embiid lite in an open gym setting....I am not saying he can't one day shoot the ball but he has not Shown he can do it consistantly in a game yet for long stretches....He has barley any Mid range jumpshots all year which is a concern.....It will take a long while for him to develop a competent NBA range 3 point shot.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

James Wiseman ^ After seeing the open Gym you think thats Embiid...

His shot is not broken at all and could develop but for him to be an actual in game 3 point shooter and if you wanna be a winning team and actually feel confident in him taking 3s without hurting your team hes going to have to take years of development....Hes not going to look like he looks in an open Gym during reg NBA games....Just like Wiseman who looks like a monster in workouts. There is a chance it does not translate....

Big men like Maluach are the scariest type of player to take a gamble on with a top pick....Raw offensive bigs are my big No/No picks....Id take a flyer on Maluach though if all the players i like ahead of him are off the board already....But Maluach has the biggest risk of ending up with a not so good player after a year of tanking....Its high risk high reward type of player.

Again...you are only looking at Duke footage. Look back at his BAL and Olympics footage when the coaches didn't restrict his role.

He didn't shoot a bunch of consistent 3 pointers he made a few shots....Its not like he went on a stretch during them games shooting 35 percent from 3 on alot of attempts....You have to go by game footage not open gym workouts is my point.....And he has not shown in game he can shoot the ball consistantly....If he showed he has a mid range game where he was shooting the ball off Pick and pops i would be much more high on him....Not saying he can't develop it in the future i am saying its going to take years of development to get to that point and there is a chance it might not translate.

Its not like i have Maluach far down my draft board either hes prolly top 8 on my draft board....Just the players ahead of him for me are way better picks from a risk perspective....And after a year of tanking i am taking the more skilled ready now players over someone i feel will be a project.

[PhilBlackson]

With all the vitriol Malauch gets for no reason some of y’all need to stay on that side lol

He’s still not my favourite but I can’t for the life understand how some people can’t see the potential and completely write him off despite being the starting C who anchored Duke’s defence and the scouts almost unanimously rank in the top 10 which they didn’t for guys like Missi, Bol etc so obviously there is SOMETHING that the experts see in him. Of course so much of getting the most outta his potential is gonna be determined by WHERE he lands and it goes without saying if there’s any place that will have a great (actually likely THE best) chance to develop him to that point is here.

I’ll be perfectly happy with any of Queen, Fears, Maluach and Bryant still feels a bit like a honourable mention/good fallback. But I think we can develop each of those 3 to all-stars with the first 2 being more likely.

Let's say we land at 3 or 4.

Are you taking Ace or Queen? Who's your choice

I love Queen....but I'm still taking Ace.

Idk why we wouldn't trust our developmental staff to dial in his shot selection, not to mention all that he could learn from a hooper like BI and heck even some of the movement shooting from Gradey. The kid has some special traits with obv his shooting but even his athleticism is being underrated, he's really pretty explosive and he moves quickly laterally, he just needs to hone in his skills off the dribble. But if you get even 80-90% of his ceiling, he's a star AND would be a perfect fit since he has the lateral quickness to keep up with guards, he would make for a potentially absolutely deadly trio between him, BI & Scottie and most notably put Scottie into his ideal role as a 3rd option facilitator who can score enough to keep defences honest. TBT with Queen there's a bit of an overlap between him & Scottie, I still think DQ is good enough we could figure out a way to still be highly effective but an optimized Ace is about perfect as fit as I could think of and has some serious star potential that I think could actually boost the Raptors' "brand"/popularity as I think he's the kind of player that will end up having numerous highlight moments. Of course he would require more patience but the payoff could be greater and that's really the tipping point for me.

[KillaSham23]

I still say if im Raps this is my ranking
Flagg
Harper
Ace
Edge
Tre Johnson
Queen
Fears
Jak
Id try to trade down if I can land any of the above

Malauch (I don't buy his hype but I could be wrong)
Kon (I also don't buy the hype)
Id take a shot on Nolan or Traore

Take a guard or Queen. If you take a guard you trade Gradey for a big like maybe Mark Williams.

[mtcan]

Again guys are falling in love with open gym footage.....In an open gym all NBA level players look like Khaman is looking in that video....Yes even big men....Thats why Wiseman went #2 to the Warriors because Scouts fell in love with him during open gym workouts because he looks like a monster/Embiid lite in an open gym setting....I am not saying he can't one day shoot the ball but he has not Shown he can do it consistantly in a game yet for long stretches....He has barley any Mid range jumpshots all year which is a concern.....It will take a long while for him to develop a competent NBA range 3 point shot.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

James Wiseman ^ After seeing the open Gym you think thats Embiid...

His shot is not broken at all and could develop but for him to be an actual in game 3 point shooter and if you wanna be a winning team and actually feel confident in him taking 3s without hurting your team hes going to have to take years of development....Hes not going to look like he looks in an open Gym during reg NBA games....Just like Wiseman who looks like a monster in workouts. There is a chance it does not translate....

Big men like Maluach are the scariest type of player to take a gamble on with a top pick....Raw offensive bigs are my big No/No picks....Id take a flyer on Maluach though if all the players i like ahead of him are off the board already....But Maluach has the biggest risk of ending up with a not so good player after a year of tanking....Its high risk high reward type of player.

Again...you are only looking at Duke footage. Look back at his BAL and Olympics footage when the coaches didn't restrict his role.

He didn't shoot a bunch of consistent 3 pointers he made a few shots....Its not like he went on a stretch during them games shooting 35 percent from 3 on alot of attempts....You have to go by game footage not open gym workouts is my point.....And he has not shown in game he can shoot the ball consistantly....Not saying he can't develop it in the future i am saying its going to take years of development to get to that point and there is a chance it might not translate.

Its not like i have Maluach far down my draft board either hes prolly top 8 on my draft board....Just the players ahead of him for me are way better picks from a risk perspective....And after a year of tanking i am taking the more skilled ready now players over someone i feel will be a project.

The shooting form looks good. No reason why he can't and won't do it more in a real game situation especially with more reps and development. And he's only 18. And I also love Derik Queen but Queen is an older freshman. Like I said...in BAL footage...he's letting it fly. In the Olympics...he was able to shoot over guys like Embiid (not easy to do for some guys). There is footage out there that is not just in a gym.