Chicago Sky/WNBA 2025 season thread

[nomorezorro]

what point are you trying to make dude

"angel reese is a joke of a franchise player!"
"she's not meant to be the franchise player"
"uhhh then how come she was an all star and got an mvp vote"

[Betta Bulleavit]

Angel Reese is Andre Drummond. Laughable "franchise player".

I think that one of the bigger issues with people not really following the sport is that they don’t really understand how this team is being built. Reese herself wasn’t really drafted to be the “franchise” player. That was Cordosa, hence the reason she was taken with the third pick last year. Reese was drafted with the seventh pick. People just talk about Reese more because of the perceived rivalry between her and Clark.

One was an allstar and received MVP votes. It's not the one you're saying is the chosen franchise player.

Expectations <<< Reality

We all expected Pat to be an all-star level player because he was drafted 4th. This is just how sports work.

I understand your point. Im just not sure I understand where it’s going. Is it that despite the fact that Reese clearly outplayed her expectations, she’s a a bad franchise player?

[dice]

Angel Reese is Andre Drummond. Laughable "franchise player".

I think that one of the bigger issues with people not really following the sport is that they don’t really understand how this team is being built. Reese herself wasn’t really drafted to be the “franchise” player. That was Cordosa, hence the reason she was taken with the third pick last year. Reese was drafted with the seventh pick. People just talk about Reese more because of the perceived rivalry between her and Clark.

One was an allstar and received MVP votes. It's not the one you're saying is the chosen franchise player.

Expectations <<< Reality

We all expected Pat to be an all-star level player because he was drafted 4th. This is just how sports work.

there is not and has never been an expectation or reality that she is a franchise player

[dice]

What is it about Reese that makes you not want to watch at all? I mean, I get that her game isn’t the most aesthetically pleasing, but she’s a highly decorated player and has played at a high level on every level that she’s been on.

Reese is like early Joakim Noah Bulls team. I wouldnt wanna watch him unless there is Derrick Rose on floor. Just imagine Pax building Joakim Noah lead team when he was drafted without Bulls winning Rose loterry. I basically disliked Bulls Noah's pick till Rose was drafted.

The '07-08 Bulls were a HARD watch...

coming off 49 wins, tyrus and thabo entering 2nd year, adding jo...what a bust

[jc23]

Reese is a draw; its just the comparison to Clark is like comparing Jordan to Rodman in the 80's.

[TheSuzerain]

Reese is really good and is easily the best talent on the team.

She can very easily be an all-star WNBA talent.

[Ice Man]

She can very easily be an all-star WNBA talent.

Especially since she already was an All-Star last season. But maybe you mean All-WNBA team ...

Angel helps any team win more games; she's a championship quality player in that respect. She has a long ways to go, though, to reach the point where she can be the best player on a title contender, which is a different and higher hurdle.

[Tetlak]

I think that one of the bigger issues with people not really following the sport is that they don’t really understand how this team is being built. Reese herself wasn’t really drafted to be the “franchise” player. That was Cordosa, hence the reason she was taken with the third pick last year. Reese was drafted with the seventh pick. People just talk about Reese more because of the perceived rivalry between her and Clark.

One was an allstar and received MVP votes. It's not the one you're saying is the chosen franchise player.

Expectations <<< Reality

We all expected Pat to be an all-star level player because he was drafted 4th. This is just how sports work.

there is not and has never been an expectation or reality that she is a franchise player

Really?

She's clearly marketed as one. Even if you think she isn't, the accolades make her one.

[Ice Man]

She's clearly marketed as one.

For sure. The story last year was that Caitlin vs. Angel was the women's version of Bird vs. Magic. Angel wasn't just marketed as a franchise player, she was marketed as a future all-time great/MVP winner. True, knowledgeable fans recognized the limitations in Angel's game, but there aren't many of those people around. For the general sporting public, Angel Reese was presented as a generational talent.

[Andi Obst]

Comparing Reese to Drummond is funny. Drummond would kill to have one defensive season as good as Angel's rookie year.

[Hangtime84]

Comparing Reese to Drummond is funny. Drummond would kill to have one defensive season as good as Angel's rookie year.

Drummond experience is very much Angel like imo

[Andi Obst]

Comparing Reese to Drummond is funny. Drummond would kill to have one defensive season as good as Angel's rookie year.

Drummond experience is very much Angel like imo

If we completely ignore defense...sure, I guess.

[dice]

One was an allstar and received MVP votes. It's not the one you're saying is the chosen franchise player.

Expectations <<< Reality

We all expected Pat to be an all-star level player because he was drafted 4th. This is just how sports work.

there is not and has never been an expectation or reality that she is a franchise player

Really?

She's clearly marketed as one. Even if you think she isn't, the accolades make her one.

andre drummond was all-nba. and you know full well that the marketing around reece is for reasons beyond her play. plus, there IS no franchise player for the sky presently. gotta market someone! remember eddy curry and tyson chandler?

[dice]

Comparing Reese to Drummond is funny. Drummond would kill to have one defensive season as good as Angel's rookie year.

Drummond experience is very much Angel like imo

If we completely ignore defense...sure, I guess.

drummond gets a bit more steals and significantly more blocks. defensive rebounding is defense too, which is probably how drummond got a bunch of all-defense votes once or twice

btw, drummond is much better offensively than reese was as a rookie. she was HORRENDOUS (excluding pounding the boards, of course). made joakim noah look like jokic...ok, prime brad miller

[dougthonus]

btw, drummond is much better offensively than reese was as a rookie. she was HORRENDOUS (excluding pounding the boards, of course). made joakim noah look like jokic...ok, prime brad miller

I don't think this is really true. Her percentages were awful, but if you take all the extra possessions added via offensive rebounding and then measure her as points per net possession, she would be an absolutely elite offensive player.

[MissileMike]

Comparing Reese to Drummond is funny. Drummond would kill to have one defensive season as good as Angel's rookie year.

Drummond experience is very much Angel like imo

She's basically Rodman.

[Andi Obst]

drummond gets a bit more steals and significantly more blocks. defensive rebounding is defense too, which is probably how drummond got a bunch of all-defense votes once or twice

Drummond got All-Defense votes because people who shouldn't have a vote have a vote.

Angel was one of the best switch bigs in the W...as a rookie. Honestly, I don't really know what we're doing here. It sucks to see that so many people here are down on Angel after a very impressive rookie season (remember, the 7th pick of a WNBA draft is not supposed to be that good) and winning Unrivaled DPOY.

[TheSuzerain]

btw, drummond is much better offensively than reese was as a rookie. she was HORRENDOUS (excluding pounding the boards, of course). made joakim noah look like jokic...ok, prime brad miller

I don't think this is really true. Her percentages were awful, but if you take all the extra possessions added via offensive rebounding and then measure her as points per net possession, she would be an absolutely elite offensive player.

She wasn't elite. But she wasn't bad on offense.

People have a tough time calibrating to WNBA efficiency which usually means they think Reese was bad on offense.

League wide ORating was like 105.

[dougthonus]

btw, drummond is much better offensively than reese was as a rookie. she was HORRENDOUS (excluding pounding the boards, of course). made joakim noah look like jokic...ok, prime brad miller

I don't think this is really true. Her percentages were awful, but if you take all the extra possessions added via offensive rebounding and then measure her as points per net possession, she would be an absolutely elite offensive player.

She wasn't elite. But she wasn't bad on offense.

People have a tough time calibrating to WNBA efficiency which usually means they think Reese was bad on offense.

League wide ORating was like 105.

I looked at it last year and would need to dig up the research, but if you value the offensive rebounds at team average ORTG and add that to her contribution (and do the same thing for the league in general), she becomes elite in terms of impact. Granted, how you would bring offensive rebounds in to figure out value isn't really an agreed upon methodology in standard basketball statistics.

But a simple way to look at it like:
FGA + .45 FTA -ORB +TO = possessions

Reese: 1.148 ppp
Wilson: 1.194 ppp
WNBA Averae: 1.003 ppp
Best team: 1.061 ppp

From an efficiency perspective, her rebounding makes her a really big positive for team efficiency, clearly not a goto scorer though, so I guess that puts her under the elite category.

[TheSuzerain]

I don't think this is really true. Her percentages were awful, but if you take all the extra possessions added via offensive rebounding and then measure her as points per net possession, she would be an absolutely elite offensive player.

She wasn't elite. But she wasn't bad on offense.

People have a tough time calibrating to WNBA efficiency which usually means they think Reese was bad on offense.

League wide ORating was like 105.

I looked at it last year and would need to dig up the research, but if you value the offensive rebounds at team average ORTG and add that to her contribution (and do the same thing for the league in general), she becomes elite in terms of impact. Granted, how you would bring offensive rebounds in to figure out value isn't really an agreed upon methodology in standard basketball statistics.

But a simple way to look at it like:
FGA + .45 FTA -ORB +TO = possessions

Reese: 1.148 ppp
Wilson: 1.194 ppp
WNBA Averae: 1.003 ppp
Best team: 1.061 ppp

From an efficiency perspective, her rebounding makes her a really big positive for team efficiency, clearly not a goto scorer though, so I guess that puts her under the elite category.

I believe O-Rebs are already baked in BKRef's O-Rating calc and that has Reese slightly below league average.

But in any case, seems to me like her rebounding dominance isn't going anywhere, and she has obvious runway for improvement on her shooting efficiency. She's good.