2025 draft class

[clyde21]

I love Minnesota's UDFA haul, and expected us to make similar moves with a big class - granted we had the most actual draft picks in the league and they only drafted five players. They're bringing in 20 players, including QB Max Brosmer, OT Logan Brown, TE Benjamin Yurosek, and DE Tyler Batty. I did a bunch of mocks where I drafted Brown, Yurosek, and Batty in the late rounds.

The thing that confounds me about our approach to UDFA is that we didn't really try to address a lot of the holes we still had after the draft. The most glaring is passing on all of the OTs, but several other positions we simply did not address stand out, too.

Why not another TE to compete with Willis and Tonges? CJ Dippre, Jalin Conyers, Ben Yurosek, Caden Prieskorn, and Jake Biringstool are all interesting guys. Why not a pass-rush DE as we really don't have any true pass-rushers (assuming Drake Jackson is done) and may want to shift Williams and/or Gross-Matos inside on pass-rush downs? There were several tempting options in Jah Joyner, Kaimon Rucker, and Tyler Batty.

yea I don't get it, I realize they wanted to limit it only to 6 UDFAs but why a LB and a DT after the draft we just had? if we replaced those two guys with OT Brown and FB Conroy I would've been happy but we just kept attacking the same positions over and over again as if we have minutes for all these guys or something.

[Harry Palmer]

Sigle I don’t trust too much over the top, he seems like a run stuffer more than a guy you trust as your last line.

Overall I am happy that we probably won’t lose as many games due to an inability to stop the run. Last couple seasons felt weird that way. But I am also pretty sure we know why we will eventually lose, because we can’t pass pro, in fact we’re likely worse than last year. Here’s hoping Humphries was just taking the full year to recover, which is certainly possible. But that feeling of watching us again lose exactly like we expected to lose, the philosophical gambit on the OL…that’s gonna suck just as bad as it did last year, and that’s assuming it doesn’t also cost us a quarterback or three. And I’ll again say if we look like we’re just spinning our wheels I don’t think we can take Trent playing for granted even if he’s medically available. He marches to his own drummer, so hard to predict, but if he sees our ceiling as low I can see him just bowing out.

The schedule should mean we will win our fair share, but I feel like a version of the Cowboys, we’ll get bounced by the first good healthy team we see in the post-season.

[Samurai]

Sigle I don’t trust too much over the top, he seems like a run stuffer more than a guy you trust as your last line.

Sigle seems to follow a common trend that the Niners used consistently in this draft; pick guys who athletically and/or physically resemble guys from central casting even if their on-field play or tape don't always match. Mykel Williams is an athletic freak but many question why he hasn't been able to produce more sacks. CJ West had one of the fastest 40 times for a player weighing over 315 pounds, but hasn't displayed sufficient pass rush moves. Sigle's 4.37 40 time puts him in the 97th percentile and makes him our fastest DB; our lack of foot speed at safety was one of our defensive shortcomings last season. So it looks like Sigle will join a number of newcomers that our coaching staff must believe are teachable, since you can't teach a safety to run a 4.37.

[clyde21]

HP is right, if we lose at least won't be because we're getting deepthroated on the ground like against Green Bay last season. sounds like the FO was just as disgusting at that as the rest of it. at least that's the plan at this point.

[Harry Palmer]

Sigle I don’t trust too much over the top, he seems like a run stuffer more than a guy you trust as your last line.

Sigle seems to follow a common trend that the Niners used consistently in this draft; pick guys who athletically and/or physically resemble guys from central casting even if their on-field play or tape don't always match. Mykel Williams is an athletic freak but many question why he hasn't been able to produce more sacks. CJ West had one of the fastest 40 times for a player weighing over 315 pounds, but hasn't displayed sufficient pass rush moves. Sigle's 4.37 40 time puts him in the 97th percentile and makes him our fastest DB; our lack of foot speed at safety was one of our defensive shortcomings last season. So it looks like Sigle will join a number of newcomers that our coaching staff must believe are teachable, since you can't teach a safety to run a 4.37.

Yeah, I can see your thinking. And tbh I am basing my opinion on very little, and probably mostly recycled opinions of other, in particular Tim Fitzgerald who covers K-State sports in his interview with Guy Haberman. Btw, Haberman really locked down some great first hand scouting reports on Niners picks this year, and in particular his interview with the Iowa OC Tim Lester was fantastic…not just on Colby, there’s a lot about the Shannahan offense, Kittle, the evolution of the WCO, etc. Really worth your time.

But anyways, getting back to Sigle, Fitzgerald was pretty frank, saying he thought he’d go a round or two later than he did and that he thinks his 40 is more due to specific training for the 40, specifically getting out of the blocks (metaphorically); the speed doesn’t show up on the football field, at least not that kind of speed. But he’s a sound tackler who doesn’t fear contact and a good teammate.

[clyde21]

Read on Twitter

[clyde21]

Stout putting in work

Read on Twitter

[Jikkle]

Stout putting in work

Read on Twitter

Might be just me and the fact he has no pads on but the dude seems like he has some long arms for his size.

EDIT: I guess it is just me because I looked up his percentiles and he was pretty low there for arm length.

[clyde21]

Stout putting in work

Might be just me and the fact he has no pads on but the dude seems like he has some long arms for his size.

lol i was thinking the same thing, but he *does* have 30" inch arms for a dude that's only 5-8 and a half, which isn't too bad i guess. longer than Barron's who came in at 5-11 and like 29 inches and 5/8 or something

[Jikkle]

I kinda feel like people are overreacting to the lack of pass rush skills from Collins and West.

I just for one where they were drafted you probably weren't going to find an excellent run stuffer and pass rusher or they would've been a top 10 pick.

Secondly while I don't think you'll develop them into double-digit sack guys you can develop them to being reasonably effective at it. Not saying either one is going to be Chris Jones but he didn't roll out of bed and was Chris Jones day 1 in the league but he developed into being the Chris Jones we know today.

Thirdly we don't need them to be dynamic pass rushers. Yes it would be nice if they develop into dynamic pass rushers but I still think they would be successful if they are a handful for offensive linemen and push the pocket and eat blocks to enable guys like Bosa and Williams to get sacks.

Like what I'd be happy to see from these guys is occupying two blockers and watching Bosa loop around him to be untouched to the QB. Or occupying blockers to allow Martin or Warner to blitz untouched to get to the QB instead of watching Warner blitz straight into a waiting guard's block.

[CrimsonCrew]

I kinda feel like people are overreacting to the lack of pass rush skills from Collins and West.

I just for one where they were drafted you probably weren't going to find an excellent run stuffer and pass rusher or they would've been a top 10 pick.

Secondly while I don't think you'll develop them into double-digit sack guys you can develop them to being reasonably effective at it. Not saying either one is going to be Chris Jones but he didn't roll out of bed and was Chris Jones day 1 in the league but he developed into being the Chris Jones we know today.

Thirdly we don't need them to be dynamic pass rushers. Yes it would be nice if they develop into dynamic pass rushers but I still think they would be successful if they are a handful for offensive linemen and push the pocket and eat blocks to enable guys like Bosa and Williams to get sacks.

Like what I'd be happy to see from these guys is occupying two blockers and watching Bosa loop around him to be untouched to the QB. Or occupying blockers to allow Martin or Warner to blitz untouched to get to the QB instead of watching Warner blitz straight into a waiting guard's block.

We'll see both how these guys develop and how they're used. There are so many questions on the DL right now. Do we legitimately rotate players, something we haven't too often under Kocurek? If so, do we have a couple guys who can specialize at getting pressure on the QB?

There are lots of possible solutions to our potential interior pass-rush problem. I've raised some of them previously. Can the rookies be effective as pass-rushers? Do we play Gross-Matos, Williams, or Sam O inside on passing downs? Can Elliott or Givens give us effective pass-rush snaps when they aren't playing as many running downs?

Although scouts/pundits and CJ West himself say he's best-suited at NT, I think he might be able to play the three-technique in our scheme. His vertical (88th percentile) and 40 (81st percentile) were both impressive, especially for a guy with his build (short and squat). And he's done well as a penetrator from what I understand. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried him in that role. And I believe Alfred Collins played a majority of his snaps in the B gap, so maybe he can be a different style three-tech.

After the draft, I'm even more frustrated that they cut Maliek Collins. Collins struggled against the run last year, but we were probably overusing him and wearing him down. He had a 70 grade against the pass and was pretty clearly our best DT in that area. If we kept him, following this draft we could have held him back as something of a pass-rush specialist, and I think he could have flourished. It wouldn't have cost us appreciably more money against the cap, it would have made the DL and the team obviously stronger, and assuming he left after next season, he would have counted toward the comp pick formula. Instead, we lost him for no discernible benefit except some money in Jed York's wallet and made the team worse. Really frustrating.

[Jikkle]

I kinda feel like people are overreacting to the lack of pass rush skills from Collins and West.

I just for one where they were drafted you probably weren't going to find an excellent run stuffer and pass rusher or they would've been a top 10 pick.

Secondly while I don't think you'll develop them into double-digit sack guys you can develop them to being reasonably effective at it. Not saying either one is going to be Chris Jones but he didn't roll out of bed and was Chris Jones day 1 in the league but he developed into being the Chris Jones we know today.

Thirdly we don't need them to be dynamic pass rushers. Yes it would be nice if they develop into dynamic pass rushers but I still think they would be successful if they are a handful for offensive linemen and push the pocket and eat blocks to enable guys like Bosa and Williams to get sacks.

Like what I'd be happy to see from these guys is occupying two blockers and watching Bosa loop around him to be untouched to the QB. Or occupying blockers to allow Martin or Warner to blitz untouched to get to the QB instead of watching Warner blitz straight into a waiting guard's block.

We'll see both how these guys develop and how they're used. There are so many questions on the DL right now. Do we legitimately rotate players, something we haven't too often under Kocurek? If so, do we have a couple guys who can specialize at getting pressure on the QB?

There are lots of possible solutions to our potential interior pass-rush problem. I've raised some of them previously. Can the rookies be effective as pass-rushers? Do we play Gross-Matos, Williams, or Sam O inside on passing downs? Can Elliott or Givens give us effective pass-rush snaps when they aren't playing as many running downs?

Although scouts/pundits and CJ West himself say he's best-suited at NT, I think he might be able to play the three-technique in our scheme. His vertical (88th percentile) and 40 (81st percentile) were both impressive, especially for a guy with his build (short and squat). And he's done well as a penetrator from what I understand. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried him in that role. And I believe Alfred Collins played a majority of his snaps in the B gap, so maybe he can be a different style three-tech.

After the draft, I'm even more frustrated that they cut Maliek Collins. Collins struggled against the run last year, but we were probably overusing him and wearing him down. He had a 70 grade against the pass and was pretty clearly our best DT in that area. If we kept him, following this draft we could have held him back as something of a pass-rush specialist, and I think he could have flourished. It wouldn't have cost us appreciably more money against the cap, it would have made the DL and the team obviously stronger, and assuming he left after next season, he would have counted toward the comp pick formula. Instead, we lost him for no discernible benefit except some money in Jed York's wallet and made the team worse. Really frustrating.

My speculation with Collins and Floyd for that matter is mainly that they weren't going to be on the team beyond 2025 so they didn't want to waste snaps on them to could be given to guys that will on the team 2025 and beyond.

I don't think we're throwing away the 2025 season but I do think the team acknowledges internally at least it's going to be a bit of a retooling year and that 2026 and beyond are going to be the years to make a bigger push.

I believe that's why there was such a massive push on defense this draft because they don't know how long they'll have Saleh so they want to build the defense up as much as possible while he's here and to go along with that they want to use 2025 to get the youth as much experience as possible so they are ready to make a run in 2026. You're hoping all these guys you drafted that need some development are ready to make a huge leap year 2.

I think when it comes to West and Collins they wanted to have some flexibility so depending on the situation you can either rotate the two in and out to keep them fresh or if you're need runs stuffed you line them up next to each other. I got a feeling this defense is going to be very good at stuffing 3rd/4th and very short runs.

[CrimsonCrew]

I kinda feel like people are overreacting to the lack of pass rush skills from Collins and West.

I just for one where they were drafted you probably weren't going to find an excellent run stuffer and pass rusher or they would've been a top 10 pick.

Secondly while I don't think you'll develop them into double-digit sack guys you can develop them to being reasonably effective at it. Not saying either one is going to be Chris Jones but he didn't roll out of bed and was Chris Jones day 1 in the league but he developed into being the Chris Jones we know today.

Thirdly we don't need them to be dynamic pass rushers. Yes it would be nice if they develop into dynamic pass rushers but I still think they would be successful if they are a handful for offensive linemen and push the pocket and eat blocks to enable guys like Bosa and Williams to get sacks.

Like what I'd be happy to see from these guys is occupying two blockers and watching Bosa loop around him to be untouched to the QB. Or occupying blockers to allow Martin or Warner to blitz untouched to get to the QB instead of watching Warner blitz straight into a waiting guard's block.

We'll see both how these guys develop and how they're used. There are so many questions on the DL right now. Do we legitimately rotate players, something we haven't too often under Kocurek? If so, do we have a couple guys who can specialize at getting pressure on the QB?

There are lots of possible solutions to our potential interior pass-rush problem. I've raised some of them previously. Can the rookies be effective as pass-rushers? Do we play Gross-Matos, Williams, or Sam O inside on passing downs? Can Elliott or Givens give us effective pass-rush snaps when they aren't playing as many running downs?

Although scouts/pundits and CJ West himself say he's best-suited at NT, I think he might be able to play the three-technique in our scheme. His vertical (88th percentile) and 40 (81st percentile) were both impressive, especially for a guy with his build (short and squat). And he's done well as a penetrator from what I understand. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried him in that role. And I believe Alfred Collins played a majority of his snaps in the B gap, so maybe he can be a different style three-tech.

After the draft, I'm even more frustrated that they cut Maliek Collins. Collins struggled against the run last year, but we were probably overusing him and wearing him down. He had a 70 grade against the pass and was pretty clearly our best DT in that area. If we kept him, following this draft we could have held him back as something of a pass-rush specialist, and I think he could have flourished. It wouldn't have cost us appreciably more money against the cap, it would have made the DL and the team obviously stronger, and assuming he left after next season, he would have counted toward the comp pick formula. Instead, we lost him for no discernible benefit except some money in Jed York's wallet and made the team worse. Really frustrating.

My speculation with Collins and Floyd for that matter is mainly that they weren't going to be on the team beyond 2025 so they didn't want to waste snaps on them to could be given to guys that will on the team 2025 and beyond.

I don't think we're throwing away the 2025 season but I do think the team acknowledges internally at least it's going to be a bit of a retooling year and that 2026 and beyond are going to be the years to make a bigger push.

I believe that's why there was such a massive push on defense this draft because they don't know how long they'll have Saleh so they want to build the defense up as much as possible while he's here and to go along with that they want to use 2025 to get the youth as much experience as possible so they are ready to make a run in 2026. You're hoping all these guys you drafted that need some development are ready to make a huge leap year 2.

I think when it comes to West and Collins they wanted to have some flexibility so depending on the situation you can either rotate the two in and out to keep them fresh or if you're need runs stuffed you line them up next to each other. I got a feeling this defense is going to be very good at stuffing 3rd/4th and very short runs.

Are Elliott or Givens going to be on the team beyond 2025? Both will be 28 by the end of the seasons and don't have much upside. Maliek Collins is markedly better than either as a pass rusher. He would make us better this year, and maybe we get a 5th round comp pick in 2027 for him if he left after this year. It's just hard to see that as anything but a naked short-term financial (not cap) move that hurt this team on the field. I don't think that move can be contorted to look good for this FO.

Floyd at DE is a little different given the age of the other players there. Sam O and Beal are young, cheap, and have upside, and I think the hope is that Gross-Matos when healthy will be better than Floyd. Not to mention there's at least a chance Jackson comes back.

I was willing to see the FO's (including ownership here) vision came together, but now that it has, I think it's fair to criticize. And look, I'm not going to go crazy with the criticism given we haven't seen the finished product on the field. But some of these financial decisions don't look good right now. We cut our best pass-rushing DT before the draft to realize some savings this season - when we don't need them - and take a hit next season. We then drafted two run-stuffing DTs who would have been a perfect complement to Maliek Collins.

Additionally, I figured part of our slow approach to FA this year was because we intended to really attack UDFA as part of a youth movement. Lack of depth on the current roster, exceptionally deep draft, a stated desire to add cheap depth. It all seemed to make sense. And then we spent almost nothing in UDFA and had probably our least aggressive approach under this FO. I realize the long-term ramifications probably aren't as great as the other moves, but it was really disappointing in terms of what it suggests about the team's approach. We didn't add a rookie TE or OT despite pretty big question marks at both spots. We could have added another DE to compete with our young guys. Instead we sat back and watched talent go to other teams like the Seahawks.

[clyde21]

Collins true pass set pass rush grade per PFF: 77.8

West: 70.1

best passing rushing interior player in the class was ONL, and his true pass set pass rush grade was at 88.

honestly I think we're more likely to see interior penetration from Collins than West (Collins really seems to be underrated here)

[Pattersonca65]

We'll see both how these guys develop and how they're used. There are so many questions on the DL right now. Do we legitimately rotate players, something we haven't too often under Kocurek? If so, do we have a couple guys who can specialize at getting pressure on the QB?

There are lots of possible solutions to our potential interior pass-rush problem. I've raised some of them previously. Can the rookies be effective as pass-rushers? Do we play Gross-Matos, Williams, or Sam O inside on passing downs? Can Elliott or Givens give us effective pass-rush snaps when they aren't playing as many running downs?

Although scouts/pundits and CJ West himself say he's best-suited at NT, I think he might be able to play the three-technique in our scheme. His vertical (88th percentile) and 40 (81st percentile) were both impressive, especially for a guy with his build (short and squat). And he's done well as a penetrator from what I understand. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried him in that role. And I believe Alfred Collins played a majority of his snaps in the B gap, so maybe he can be a different style three-tech.

After the draft, I'm even more frustrated that they cut Maliek Collins. Collins struggled against the run last year, but we were probably overusing him and wearing him down. He had a 70 grade against the pass and was pretty clearly our best DT in that area. If we kept him, following this draft we could have held him back as something of a pass-rush specialist, and I think he could have flourished. It wouldn't have cost us appreciably more money against the cap, it would have made the DL and the team obviously stronger, and assuming he left after next season, he would have counted toward the comp pick formula. Instead, we lost him for no discernible benefit except some money in Jed York's wallet and made the team worse. Really frustrating.

My speculation with Collins and Floyd for that matter is mainly that they weren't going to be on the team beyond 2025 so they didn't want to waste snaps on them to could be given to guys that will on the team 2025 and beyond.

I don't think we're throwing away the 2025 season but I do think the team acknowledges internally at least it's going to be a bit of a retooling year and that 2026 and beyond are going to be the years to make a bigger push.

I believe that's why there was such a massive push on defense this draft because they don't know how long they'll have Saleh so they want to build the defense up as much as possible while he's here and to go along with that they want to use 2025 to get the youth as much experience as possible so they are ready to make a run in 2026. You're hoping all these guys you drafted that need some development are ready to make a huge leap year 2.

I think when it comes to West and Collins they wanted to have some flexibility so depending on the situation you can either rotate the two in and out to keep them fresh or if you're need runs stuffed you line them up next to each other. I got a feeling this defense is going to be very good at stuffing 3rd/4th and very short runs.

Are Elliott or Givens going to be on the team beyond 2025? Both will be 28 by the end of the seasons and don't have much upside. Maliek Collins is markedly better than either as a pass rusher. He would make us better this year, and maybe we get a 5th round comp pick in 2027 for him if he left after this year. It's just hard to see that as anything but a naked short-term financial (not cap) move that hurt this team on the field. I don't think that move can be contorted to look good for this FO.

Floyd at DE is a little different given the age of the other players there. Sam O and Beal are young, cheap, and have upside, and I think the hope is that Gross-Matos when healthy will be better than Floyd. Not to mention there's at least a chance Jackson comes back.

I was willing to see the FO's (including ownership here) vision came together, but now that it has, I think it's fair to criticize. And look, I'm not going to go crazy with the criticism given we haven't seen the finished product on the field. But some of these financial decisions don't look good right now. We cut our best pass-rushing DT before the draft to realize some savings this season - when we don't need them - and take a hit next season. We then drafted two run-stuffing DTs who would have been a perfect complement to Maliek Collins.

Additionally, I figured part of our slow approach to FA this year was because we intended to really attack UDFA as part of a youth movement. Lack of depth on the current roster, exceptionally deep draft, a stated desire to add cheap depth. It all seemed to make sense. And then we spent almost nothing in UDFA and had probably our least aggressive approach under this FO. I realize the long-term ramifications probably aren't as great as the other moves, but it was really disappointing in terms of what it suggests about the team's approach. We didn't add a rookie TE or OT despite pretty big question marks at both spots. We could have added another DE to compete with our young guys. Instead we sat back and watched talent go to other teams like the Seahawks.

Givens and Collins are about the same as pass rushers. It is a wash. They are both crappy run defenders.

[CrimsonCrew]

Givens and Collins are about the same as pass rushers. It is a wash. They are both crappy run defenders.

I disagree. Their PFF grades are similar, but that's not a fair comparison. Collins was overused last year, and it showed. He played 715 snaps for an average of 42 per game. That's too much for a dude in his 30s. Especially when we were asking him to do dirty work in the run game that doesn't play to his strengths. Givens played 185 snaps, mostly on pass-rush downs. He could save his energy and go all out for the 10 snaps he played a game. You'd expect him to have better per-play numbers.

[Pattersonca65]

Saleh on the draft process

https://www.ninersnation.com/2025/5/9/24426879/san-francisco-49ers-robert-saleh-reveals-where-team-differs-draft-process-from-other-organizations

[Pattersonca65]

I must have missed the 49ers brought in two Olneman into minicamp, Jacob Gideon and Marcus Wehr. Gideon played center in college

[CrimsonCrew]

Saw this some time ago, but wanted to post it here as it bears on the discussion of reaches we had earlier in this thread.

Read on Twitter

Niners reaches under this FO. There have ben a lot of them, of course. But what stands out even more is the hit rate on them. We have been really bad when taking players who are perceived as significant reaches. I suppose it would be worth doing a comparison with players that weren't considered reaches, as the bust rate in the draft is high generally and most of these guys were taken in the third or later. Still, it certainly doesn't look like the team has cracked the code on draft inefficiencies and is exploiting it to clean up on undervalued assets.

To do a brief review of this list:

20 players in total, including four who were taken this year.

Of the 16 with an NFL track record, there are six players who have not contributed to any NFL team in a meaningful way and should be considered outright busts (TDP, Williams, Lance, Harris, Hurd [injury-related], and Latu). Obviously Lance hurts the most, though I also struggle to label him a reach given the position. He was almost certainly going top-10 regardless.

I would argue only one player has arguably outperformed his draft position with the Niners to date, and that's blocking TE Charlie Woerner. We've struggled to replace him, but it's hardly a coveted position.

There are four players who have contributed to the Niners or other teams, but at a level below their draft position (Wishnowsky, Banks, Moody, Pettis).

I put CJ Beathard in a class of his own. We traded up to get him and he wasn't good, but he was a QB who stuck in the league for seven year, granted Baalke was a big part of keeping him around.

Two players did nothing for the Niners but have outperformed their draft position on other teams (Womack and Skule, the latter due almost entirely to his late draft position).

That leaves two players who have a solid shot to at least justify their draft positions in Pearsall and Green, though both were relatively high picks, so the expectation is higher. That said, if they can pick up where they left off last year, those picks look good.

But that leaves us with three players who have or may return good value to the team out of sixteen reaches before this year. Not great. Not to mention that letting Womack walk to keep Ambry Thomas and Darrell Luter looks pretty darn questionable right now.

[CrimsonCrew]

Saleh on the draft process

https://www.ninersnation.com/2025/5/9/24426879/san-francisco-49ers-robert-saleh-reveals-where-team-differs-draft-process-from-other-organizations

As compared to the Jets? Or the Texans from '05-'10? Saleh doesn't exactly have a lot of elite NFL FO experience to draw on.

There's no doubt the team has done a great job with late-round draft picks, but their work on the first two days has left a lot to be desired and has put them in the situation they're in now: little depth, limited talent on deck to replace aging stars, significant questions at several key positions.