2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6

[mademan]

But it wasn't just an open gym, he hit them in the Olympics & BAL but haters will keep sweeping everything he did there under the rug.

But why wouldnt they? That's not a real competition. Against competent defenses at his own level, he hasnt been able to do anything but catch and finish plays

I remember a couple years ago there was a poster who kept putting up HS highlights of Suggs looking like an on ball star, doing step back three's and crossover finishes, but at his own level, he's a 3+D hustle player and a straight line driver with little wiggle to his game...which is what he continued to be in the NBA

Feel like Simmons' problem is mostly mental as well lack of effort in getting better. No such concerns from Malauch that i'm aware of. Nobody thinks Malauch is a finished product but he has a very high ceiling that hopefully our development staff can unlock

I do think he has a high ceiling and low floor. But like i mentioned with Suggs, you dont ignore what he's been able to do against defenses at his own level over a length of time while highlighting what he was able to do against meh competition in a short sample. He has only shown he can catch and finish against college level defenses...if we take him, its because we believe in his upside on defense. Nobody is taking him thinking he's gonna be much more than he was in college on offense

[Raptorfan2012]

Looks like the Top 5 have been more or less set based on most of the mock drafts:

Flagg
Harper
Bailey
Edgecomb
Tre Johnson

The next 5 seem to be the following (in no particular order):
Knueppel
Fears
Maluach
Queen
Kasparas/Carter Bryant

[Stromile12]

I still like fears where we're projected to be picking, I just think he has the highest upside.

I think one of Fears/Queen is there for us at 7. Watch us pass on both lol

That would be classic

[Indeed]

Nate Oats on Philon - showing how he competes hard:

“He’s been great, he’s proven himself since he got here," Oats said of Philon during the postgame press conference. "He walked in the summer with an edge about him. He competed in practice. He wanted to guard [Preseason All-American Mark] Sears. Sears is one of the best guards and maybe THE best guard in the country, and Labaron did a great job on him in the summer.

"I think he’s got a mature side about him, and his preparation and his competitiveness on both sides of the floor. We knew he was a talented offensive player, but it’s hard to sometimes know how competitive they’re going to be on both ends of the floor. And I think he’s got that."

Although they rotated multiple players on him, Philon was heavily responsible for shutting down the aforementioned Jeremiah Fears in the first half, who came into the game leading the Sooners with 18.1 points per game. Philon was among those who prevented Fears from even converting a field goal in the opening period.

"I’m a huge fan of Labaron’s," Oats said. "I think the fact that Fears was so high up on some of these draft boards, I think that motivated Labaron a little bit, too.”

https://www.si.com/college/alabama/basketball/labaron-philon-named-sec-freshman-of-the-week-for-third-time-01jgyfyrnbvr

We are not drafting him with our 1st, and he would be gone before our 2nd.

[JCP11]

I don't get the people who hope we don't draft Maluach. The measurables are off the chart, he has skills that are developing and on top of that he's 18. You won't get a chance to draft a specimen like that very often. He has a lot to learn like many African athletes coming in America. We saw Pascal come here at 22-23 and become a star in this league. Plus just his presence is a force multiplier for any team that drafts him, in defence he makes everyone better and on offense he can get easy buckets anytime he wants around the rim. I'm not an expert but for me it's a no brainer. There are reports that many teams are already looking to move up to get him...so why wouldn't we want him?

[Raptors Realtor]

Yeah some people get impressed with Maluach shooting 3 poiners just imagine being in an open gym watching a 40 percent 3 point shooter taking contested and off dribble 3s over the year......He prolly looks insane in person in an open gym hardley missing at all....I heard someone say he is one of the best shooting prospects in the last decade.....That will translate amazing in this Era of NBA we are in and every team wants a Tre Johnson on it.

A 7'2" player with a 9'8" standing reach is obviously going to have way less contested shots in a game vs a 6'4" guard with a 8' ish standing reach, so the fact that his stroke looks decent and shows the ability of hitting the 3 fairly consistently, whether it's in an open gym or not, is a good sign.

You should watch an open gym of Ben Simmons.

everyone can shoot and dribble and look like a star in an open gym

Ok so you're basing it on hindsight now?... Well unfortunately we have limited data on Maluach, whereas we have tons of data on Simmons, so that's not a good comp, there's tons of data on players hitting the 3 well in an open gym as well as the NBA, so where do we go from here?

[PhilBlackson]

But why wouldnt they? That's not a real competition. Against competent defenses at his own level, he hasnt been able to do anything but catch and finish plays

Olympics isn't real competition?! ok.

umm, it isnt. Its a 1 off game against a team thats so much better than you theyre not scouting you (USA) or against non NBA level competition.

Again, at his own level, we've seen the things he can do.

Your argument is a complete joke lol....now you're going as far to say the Olympics isn't real competition, sorry but that's a complete clown take.

So now elite coaches like Kerr, Spo, Lue aren't even so much as scouting teams when they knew they had immense pressure to get a gold medal and South Sudan in particular was becoming one of the bigger stories of the tournament?! They're just blindly going in there and saying "hey guys we're just gonna do whatever this next game" FOH, your sad bias is beyond transparent. You're clearly just being dismissive to fit your own bs hate.

You also don't understand what a "1 off" is when again there are REPEATED games where he has hit jumpers including at Duke, albeit limited shots. Anyone with half a brain can see that his role was being limited to a very specific thing and before you predictably write that off as "there was reason for it", although he's NOT the same level as AD or KAT, limiting a big man's role in college is not a new thing or fully indicative of the player's abilities. There's also reason multiple scouts/experts (as in people who do this for living that neither you or I do, who see these prospects up close and have extensive knowledge of them) have noted time & time again that he has shooting potential and continue to put him in the top 10 which they didn't with the multiple busts haters like you continue to throw out just because you want so badly to write the kid off. Again he's not at the top of my board but the dismissiveness to him by some of you is ridiculous.

[mademan]

Nate Oats on Philon - showing how he competes hard:

“He’s been great, he’s proven himself since he got here," Oats said of Philon during the postgame press conference. "He walked in the summer with an edge about him. He competed in practice. He wanted to guard [Preseason All-American Mark] Sears. Sears is one of the best guards and maybe THE best guard in the country, and Labaron did a great job on him in the summer.

"I think he’s got a mature side about him, and his preparation and his competitiveness on both sides of the floor. We knew he was a talented offensive player, but it’s hard to sometimes know how competitive they’re going to be on both ends of the floor. And I think he’s got that."

Although they rotated multiple players on him, Philon was heavily responsible for shutting down the aforementioned Jeremiah Fears in the first half, who came into the game leading the Sooners with 18.1 points per game. Philon was among those who prevented Fears from even converting a field goal in the opening period.

"I’m a huge fan of Labaron’s," Oats said. "I think the fact that Fears was so high up on some of these draft boards, I think that motivated Labaron a little bit, too.”

https://www.si.com/college/alabama/basketball/labaron-philon-named-sec-freshman-of-the-week-for-third-time-01jgyfyrnbvr

We are not drafting him with our 1st, and he would be gone before our 2nd.

I dont know about that. He could definitely fall to the 2nd round. I dont think he will, but i also wouldnt be too shocked. Falling to 40 though is even more unlikely, but if he is around in the early 2nd round, i think we can move up

[mademan]

Olympics isn't real competition?! ok.

umm, it isnt. Its a 1 off game against a team thats so much better than you theyre not scouting you (USA) or against non NBA level competition.

Again, at his own level, we've seen the things he can do.

Your argument is a complete joke lol....now you're going as far to say the Olympics isn't real competition, sorry but that's a complete clown take.

So now elite coaches like Kerr, Spo, Lue aren't even so much as scouting teams when they knew they had immense pressure to get a gold medal and South Sudan in particular was becoming one of the bigger stories of the tournament?! They're just blindly going in there and saying "hey guys we're just gonna do whatever this next game" FOH, your sad bias is beyond transparent. You're clearly just being dismissive to fit your own bs hate.

You also don't understand what a "1 off" is when again there are REPEATED games where he has hit jumpers including at Duke, albeit limited shots. Anyone with half a brain can see that his role was being limited to a very specific thing and before you predictably write that off as "there was reason for it", although he's NOT the same level as AD or KAT, limiting a big man's role in college is not a new thing or fully indicative of the player's abilities. There's also reason multiple scouts/experts (as in people who do this for living that neither you or I do, who see these prospects up close and have extensive knowledge of them) have noted time & time again that he has shooting potential and continue to put him in the top 10 which they didn't with the multiple busts haters like you continue to throw out just because you want so badly to write the kid off. Again he's not at the top of my board but the dismissiveness to him by some of you is ridiculous.

Do you know the amount of players who've had a couple good games in the olympics and are unable to compete in the NBA? I havent dismissed him. Ive dismissed the idea that he has all this offensive skill just hidden away. That is ludicrous. He hasnt been able to do anything against guys smaller and weaker than him than just catch and finish. Believe it or not, but big skill jumps in the NBA are extremely rare

I have no problem drafting Malauch if there is real belief in his defense and the idea is that he will be an all-nba defender at some point. I dont really see it, but i get the arguments for it and can be convinced. I just dont believe in skill jumps. When they happen, its awesome. They just dont happen often

[Godaddycurse]

But why wouldnt they? That's not a real competition. Against competent defenses at his own level, he hasnt been able to do anything but catch and finish plays

I remember a couple years ago there was a poster who kept putting up HS highlights of Suggs looking like an on ball star, doing step back three's and crossover finishes, but at his own level, he's a 3+D hustle player and a straight line driver with little wiggle to his game...which is what he continued to be in the NBA

Feel like Simmons' problem is mostly mental as well lack of effort in getting better. No such concerns from Malauch that i'm aware of. Nobody thinks Malauch is a finished product but he has a very high ceiling that hopefully our development staff can unlock

I do think he has a high ceiling and low floor. But like i mentioned with Suggs, you dont ignore what he's been able to do against defenses at his own level over a length of time while highlighting what he was able to do against meh competition in a short sample. He has only shown he can catch and finish against college level defenses...if we take him, its because we believe in his upside on defense. Nobody is taking him thinking he's gonna be much more than he was in college on offense

he's played 5 yrs of basketball only. he could still turn out to be more than just a catch and lob guy on offense but it will take a few years to get there, if ever. But yes defense will be his calling card to a long career in NBA

[PhilBlackson]

umm, it isnt. Its a 1 off game against a team thats so much better than you theyre not scouting you (USA) or against non NBA level competition.

Again, at his own level, we've seen the things he can do.

Your argument is a complete joke lol....now you're going as far to say the Olympics isn't real competition, sorry but that's a complete clown take.

So now elite coaches like Kerr, Spo, Lue aren't even so much as scouting teams when they knew they had immense pressure to get a gold medal and South Sudan in particular was becoming one of the bigger stories of the tournament?! They're just blindly going in there and saying "hey guys we're just gonna do whatever this next game" FOH, your sad bias is beyond transparent. You're clearly just being dismissive to fit your own bs hate.

You also don't understand what a "1 off" is when again there are REPEATED games where he has hit jumpers including at Duke, albeit limited shots. Anyone with half a brain can see that his role was being limited to a very specific thing and before you predictably write that off as "there was reason for it", although he's NOT the same level as AD or KAT, limiting a big man's role in college is not a new thing or fully indicative of the player's abilities. There's also reason multiple scouts/experts (as in people who do this for living that neither you or I do, who see these prospects up close and have extensive knowledge of them) have noted time & time again that he has shooting potential and continue to put him in the top 10 which they didn't with the multiple busts haters like you continue to throw out just because you want so badly to write the kid off. Again he's not at the top of my board but the dismissiveness to him by some of you is ridiculous.

Do you know the amount of players who've had a couple good games in the olympics and are unable to compete in the NBA? I havent dismissed him. Ive dismissed the idea that he has all this offensive skill just hidden away. That is ludicrous

Yes and how many were the starting C that anchored a Duke team that made the Final 4 and had multiple draft analysts pegging them to go in the top 10 for their entire college season?!??? Oh right, you'll continue to just skip over that because it doesn't fit your narrative.

I also provided you with clear examples of albeit greater prospects (AD & KAT) where clearly their offensive skillset was actually "hidden away" in college especially AD who was dominating in HS (which you could obv write off the competition too) and suddenly he reached UK and Cal basically had him playing the same limited role as Khaman. Ofc I've already acknowledged multiple times AD was obv the greater prospect but you're acting like a big man's skills being limited by their role as unheard of, when clearly it isn't. Also no one is pretending like he has some crazy skillset, only that he has some untapped potential because there is clearly some shooting ability there.

But it doesn't matter what the kid does you'll dismiss him....he's a clear stand out at BAL to the point the #1 recruiting school in the country (Duke) goes all out to get him, he goes to the Olympics nails a jumper right in Embiid's eye (apparently a former MVP is not real level of competition), he swats AD & then hits a 3 over him (and that's dismissed), nvm all the national teams BEFORE they played Team USA, he actually hit a few 3s at Duke in the very rare occasion he was ALLOWED to, now is doing so with great fluidity as he's heading into the draft but all of it you write off because of a weak Ben Simmons' argument. Which completely disregards looking at shooting percentages from the FT and mid to post, to which he has great numbers and Ben didn't and again multiple EXPERTS/scouts have noted his shooting ability but you turn a blind eye to it just because you don't want us to draft him lol

[Got Nuffin]

But it wasn't just an open gym, he hit them in the Olympics & BAL but haters will keep sweeping everything he did there under the rug.

But why wouldnt they? That's not a real competition. Against competent defenses at his own level, he hasnt been able to do anything but catch and finish plays

I remember a couple years ago there was a poster who kept putting up HS highlights of Suggs looking like an on ball star, doing step back three's and crossover finishes, but at his own level, he's a 3+D hustle player and a straight line driver with little wiggle to his game...which is what he continued to be in the NBA

Feel like Simmons' problem is mostly mental as well lack of effort in getting better. No such concerns from Malauch that i'm aware of. Nobody thinks Malauch is a finished product but he has a very high ceiling that hopefully our development staff can unlock

Yeah Simmons is an insanely talented athlete and individual, and would go number 1 again today based on his physical profile alone. Who the hell knows why he didn’t develop, a lot of that is his mental makeup though which is a risk you run with any prospect regardless of talent level.

In Maluach’s case if he shot 50-60% ft then i would throw the shooting nonsense out the window. The fact that he is a very very good ft shooter and that that usually is a decent indicator of the potential of their shot - assuming the form at distance is easily repeatable and not broken - is what is very very interesting about him in addition to his physical gifts obviously.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Feel like Simmons' problem is mostly mental as well lack of effort in getting better. No such concerns from Malauch that i'm aware of. Nobody thinks Malauch is a finished product but he has a very high ceiling that hopefully our development staff can unlock

I do think he has a high ceiling and low floor. But like i mentioned with Suggs, you dont ignore what he's been able to do against defenses at his own level over a length of time while highlighting what he was able to do against meh competition in a short sample. He has only shown he can catch and finish against college level defenses...if we take him, its because we believe in his upside on defense. Nobody is taking him thinking he's gonna be much more than he was in college on offense

he's played 5 yrs of basketball only. he could still turn out to be more than just a catch and lob guy on offense but it will take a few years to get there, if ever. But yes defense will be his calling card to a long career in NBA

He’s the classic mystery box candidate. You could feed on that hope of ‘being two years away’ for a while.

[WuTang_CMB]

Read on Twitter

The Raptors finished the 2024-25 season with a 30-52 record under head coach Darko Rajaković and missed the playoffs. Toronto’s roster has some talented young players under 25 years old in 2023 NBA Rookie of the Year Scottie Barnes, forward RJ Barrett and sharpshooter Gradey Dick. The Raptors will learn on Monday in Chicago during the NBA Draft Lottery if they can land the draft rights to Flagg, who is widely projected to be the No. 1 pick in the 2025 NBA draft.

The Raptors have a 7.5% chance of landing the No. 1 pick in the Draft Lottery. Flagg averaged 19.2 points, 7.5 rebounds and 4.2 assists as a true freshman for Duke last season, but the 2025 NBA draft is also top heavy with talent including Rutgers guard Dylan Harper, Rutgers forward Ace Bailey, Baylor swingman V.J. Edgecombe, Maryland big man Derik Queen, Texas guard Tre Johnson, Oklahoma guard Jeremiah Fears and Duke center Khaman Maluach.


“It’s a good draft and hopefully, wherever we find ourselves, we’ll make the best out of it,” Ujiri said.



The Raptors also have high hopes for veteran forward Brandon Ingram. The 2020 NBA All-Star agreed to a three-year, $120 million contract extension with the franchise, including a player option in 2027-28 after being traded from the New Orleans Pelicans in February. Ingram has averaged 19.5 points, 5.2 rebounds and 4.3 assists per game for his career and was hampered by an ankle injury last season. The Raptors have Ingram, Barnes, Barrett, Dick and guard Immanuel Quickley under contract for several upcoming seasons.

Ujiri is hopeful that some of his Raptors players and perhaps other NBA players attend the GOA Festival 2025.

“It was a growing season for us in our rebuild,” Ujiri said. “And the whole team and Darko did an incredible job. Our young players really started to show growth. Scotty as a leader is really coming into his own. And we saw development, whether it was Quickley or RJ Barrett, Ochai [Agbaji] or Gradey Dick, and also with a couple of our veteran players. We hope to grow. This rebuilding process just continues, and the next step is growing even more. With the addition of Brandon Ingram, we continue to build and hopefully we start to see it come together…

“We’re really excited about Brandon. He really attacked his rehab. We’re going to have a really good summer. It was good for Brandon to actually see [the Raptors] from that perspective, watching and really appreciating the young guys, the team, the camaraderie, the coaching, the style, all those things. He was able to observe and we’re appreciative that he signed with us for the future.”

[Indeed]

I am a late arrival to Labaron Philon's game because he was a bit buried on Alabama's older team. However, I see an underrated lotto sleeper pick given he looks the part of a 6'4 PG with slippery handle and tough defense.

Philon gets really low dribble with next level dynamic flexibility. People talk about his shin angle being almost parallel to the ground and you can see it in film. He might be a better handler than Fears, or at least I really like his composure on his attacks. He isn't a vertical athlete with only 5 dunks, but he was 58% at the rim in 136 attempts. Tre Johnson only had 97 attempts by comparison. He has some issues finishing and is over reliant on his floater, but he has really funky angles getting to the basket. Very SGA like in that way.

Excellent defense as he is really strong despite looking sub-200 lbs. I watched quite a bit of film with him being switched onto bigger players and he holds up decently. Overall, I think his defense is his best calling card.

Lastly, I think he is really underrated as a passer. 25 AST% and he has a positive ATO (2.2), but it is just watching his passing game that impress me. He throws left-handed darts cross court with ease despite being a righty. Always pitching ahead with great accuracy. He is a guard with his head up the entire possession, and he is always using his eyes to deceive the defense by doing lookaway passes. He is always looking at options and not predetermined in his decision-making. He is generally a very quick decision-maker both in transition and halfcourt.

Generally, I saw the kid really step up in big games. Initially, I liked Boogie Fland ahead of him, but Philon is gaining ground for me as one of the top PGs in the draft. He just looks and plays big on court and is similar to Traore with floor general skills, but I think will be a tougher defender. The outside shooting is his swing skill, but it can be developed.

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Watch on YouTube

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What seperates him from fears ? I haven't looked into much of any of these pgs because that's not a position of need for us imo but I'm also not that high on fears without a jumper. Philon seems like he's worth the flyer rather than taking a 6'4 non shooting PG in the top 8

The two matched up last year and I think Philon outplayed him:

Philon
26 min
16 Pts, 4 Reb (2 OReb), 5 Ast, 2 Stl, 0 Blk, 0 TO
5/10 FG, 2/5 3PT, 4/6 FT

Fears
26 min
16 Pts, 5 Reb (0 OReb), 3 Ast, 2 Stl, 0 Blk, 3 TO
5/15 FG, 1/5 3PT, 5/8 FT

I think differentiator is that Philon plays a smart low turnover game in the halfcourt. He makes really good reads and attacks with poise, whereas I think Fears has some flaws because he isn't quite as crafty. Fears looks better in transition and semi-transition where he is moving at full speed. Fears also is a poor defender. Like it is hard to watch sometimes the low effort/awareness.

Make that comparison just before March.
The diffence from stats and eye test was Fears is elite getting to the rim, while Phillion are more with shooting. Basically rim pressure, and some believe Fears would be elite on that part.

[Yallbecrazy]

Tre Johnson's ceiling is Booker, but his above average outcome is probably a taller Anfernee Simons. I don't want a pure outside scorer in the top 8 that doesn't have outlier Trae Young or Steph Curry like stats. He has to be elite offensively to make up for his terrible rebounding and defense, and merely being 80th percentile offensively in the NBA (which is a very good outcome for a draft pick )and he's still not starter quality.

He has to be top 15 offensively in the whole league or he's not worth a top 8 pick, and while that potential is in his range, the odds aren't good enough for that kind of investment in my opinion.

Also that kind of scoring means he could be making 1/5 of your cap while providing very little surplus value on his second deal.

[Grew]

I mostly see shades of Khris Middleton in Tre Johnson's game. Smooth operator with the ball in his hands, good size to get his shot off, not overly athletic. He's definitely in the mix for me.

Nice comp, I think it's the best I've heard. Little bit smaller and quicker maybe, but he definitely reminds me of middletons playstyle

[Dalek]

What seperates him from fears ? I haven't looked into much of any of these pgs because that's not a position of need for us imo but I'm also not that high on fears without a jumper. Philon seems like he's worth the flyer rather than taking a 6'4 non shooting PG in the top 8

The two matched up last year and I think Philon outplayed him:

Philon
26 min
16 Pts, 4 Reb (2 OReb), 5 Ast, 2 Stl, 0 Blk, 0 TO
5/10 FG, 2/5 3PT, 4/6 FT

Fears
26 min
16 Pts, 5 Reb (0 OReb), 3 Ast, 2 Stl, 0 Blk, 3 TO
5/15 FG, 1/5 3PT, 5/8 FT

I think differentiator is that Philon plays a smart low turnover game in the halfcourt. He makes really good reads and attacks with poise, whereas I think Fears has some flaws because he isn't quite as crafty. Fears looks better in transition and semi-transition where he is moving at full speed. Fears also is a poor defender. Like it is hard to watch sometimes the low effort/awareness.

Make that comparison just before March.
The diffence from stats and eye test was Fears is elite getting to the rim, while Phillion are more with shooting. Basically rim pressure, and some believe Fears would be elite on that part.

Can't argue with Fears being elite getting to the rim. I love his pure talent and I paid close attention from the conference tournament and NCAA tournament as he expanded his game. Philon also had a smaller role because he was clearly behind Sears as the lead guard. Fears and Philon both have outside shooting issues which make them hard to rank. You can even throw Nolan Traore into that same category.

I do worry about Fears mostly on defense as I found him really frustrating unless he was jumping passing lanes. Philon to me always showed high effort and rotated to the right spots in switches. Fears looked more like a freshman in that aspect. That's my main swing factor where I prefer Philon's defense. He reminds me of Delon Wright or Dejounte Murray. He is going to be a net positive even if his shooting takes a bit of time.

[DG88]

My current rankings for right now

1. Cooper Flagg
2. Dylan Harper
3. VJ Edgecombe
4. Ace Bailey
5. Tre Johnson
6. Derik Queen
7. Jeremiah Fears
8. Kon Knueppel
9. Kasparas Jakucionis
10. Khaman Maluach
11. Jase Richardson
12. Asa Newell
13. Collin Murray-Boyles
14. Liam McNeeley

[DG88]

Draft talk is at 53:36 on the Zach Lowe Show

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