What about the Center Spot?

[basketballRob]

Brook Lopez for 2 yrs $15m.

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[Bensational]

I would then Skybox this **** and make simultaneous cap clearing moves/trades and/or a 3-4 way trade to come out with Dejounte Murray and KP this Summer.

I love that Skybox has become his own verb for trades.

[Skybox]

I feel like this deserves a thread of its own...offseason is here and two completely convoluted threads re: the offseason probably isn't the cleanest way to go. Mods, if I'm out of line...kill me!

Backcourt offense, scoring, shooting & playmaking is pretty universally acknowledged as offseason priority #1 (as it should be)

But I think the Center spot, from top to bottom, needs a hard look.

WCJ fought hard vs BOS and, imo, put in his best work in a long time. He's got one more year at $10.9m and then his extension kicks in...18.1m, 19.6m and then a team option year at $21m...not really terrible deal for a full-time starting Center...but I don't know if he should be that.

Goga clearly has lost the trust of Mose, based on how little playoff time he got...as a result, imo, he looked kind of lost. I think, historically, he's played way better when he gets more time (starting for an oft-injured starter) than off the bench. He's due to make $8.3m next year and then one more at $7.6m

Moe tore his ACL and will likely not be back until December, well into next season. Right now, he's up in the air with a team option of $11m for next season. ACL shouldn't be a lingering type of injury and, by all accounts, he's progressing in his rehab.

I POSTED THIS ELSEWHERE BUT WANT TO RE-START THE CONVERSATION HERE...

How bad is Moe's defense really? Is it just unsalvageable or can it be brought up, schemed for, etc enough to make him playable (assuming he returns at full strength - whenever that is, December?). We bounce around a lot of names, including Danny Wolf, for an example...but can we go in that kind of finesse center direction or do we really need more of a defensive and rebounding anchor?

The whole "find a rim-protecting, rebounding, switching defender, who can knock down 3's and finish lobs 5' above the rim" ain't happening...what are the potential compromises.

I've suggested Sabonis and "defense sucks"
Capela - "can't spread the floor"
Maluach - "not really a rebounder" based on one game - after averaging 11.2 per game while still learning the sport
Poeltl - too slow, can't switch
I mean, everyone is some kind of compromise, what is our best option to concede...to me, it's the opposite of our Guard situation (which is "Enough with the freaking lockdown guys - we need guards to also do guard things").

WCJ spreads the floor, rebounds at a high level, is big and sturdy enough to mix it up with anyone, is reliable in effort and health, and on a good team-friendly deal...no, he's not any of those except in flashes (good effort vs BOS)

what do we really need that's gettable?

For me, it's throw picks around to get Maluach. Mosely would drool over a raw piece of 7' power and instinct with that level of mobility. We've had a tremendous defense without any kind of real rim-protecting deterrent. Maybe I'm underestimating WCJ - he does do an amazing job, at times, of switching onto smaller players and staying with them briefly...I just wish he'd get 10+ rebounds per game and not really look overmatched against the really big guys...sometimes he's dunking everything, grabbing boards in traffic and just looking possessed. He's awesome in spurts when he looks like he's playing angry - maybe right after he caught an accidental (or not) elbow...when I coached my young son, who was big & skilled among the other guys at the Y, I would marvel at the difference in his performance after he took a bump or, for whatever reason, got pissed off...I would (kind of) joke that I needed to call a timeout and pinch his tricep or nipple to get him going.

Anyway, what's our Center outlook? If you think it's fine as is, skip it and just go away

I doubt we address the center position this offseason other than maybe moving one.

Any reason or just because we have another issue and Weltman can't do two things in a summer?

[RichCollab]

I feel like this deserves a thread of its own...offseason is here and two completely convoluted threads re: the offseason probably isn't the cleanest way to go. Mods, if I'm out of line...kill me!

Backcourt offense, scoring, shooting & playmaking is pretty universally acknowledged as offseason priority #1 (as it should be)

But I think the Center spot, from top to bottom, needs a hard look.

WCJ fought hard vs BOS and, imo, put in his best work in a long time. He's got one more year at $10.9m and then his extension kicks in...18.1m, 19.6m and then a team option year at $21m...not really terrible deal for a full-time starting Center...but I don't know if he should be that.

Goga clearly has lost the trust of Mose, based on how little playoff time he got...as a result, imo, he looked kind of lost. I think, historically, he's played way better when he gets more time (starting for an oft-injured starter) than off the bench. He's due to make $8.3m next year and then one more at $7.6m

Moe tore his ACL and will likely not be back until December, well into next season. Right now, he's up in the air with a team option of $11m for next season. ACL shouldn't be a lingering type of injury and, by all accounts, he's progressing in his rehab.

I POSTED THIS ELSEWHERE BUT WANT TO RE-START THE CONVERSATION HERE...

How bad is Moe's defense really? Is it just unsalvageable or can it be brought up, schemed for, etc enough to make him playable (assuming he returns at full strength - whenever that is, December?). We bounce around a lot of names, including Danny Wolf, for an example...but can we go in that kind of finesse center direction or do we really need more of a defensive and rebounding anchor?

The whole "find a rim-protecting, rebounding, switching defender, who can knock down 3's and finish lobs 5' above the rim" ain't happening...what are the potential compromises.

I've suggested Sabonis and "defense sucks"
Capela - "can't spread the floor"
Maluach - "not really a rebounder" based on one game - after averaging 11.2 per game while still learning the sport
Poeltl - too slow, can't switch
I mean, everyone is some kind of compromise, what is our best option to concede...to me, it's the opposite of our Guard situation (which is "Enough with the freaking lockdown guys - we need guards to also do guard things").

WCJ spreads the floor, rebounds at a high level, is big and sturdy enough to mix it up with anyone, is reliable in effort and health, and on a good team-friendly deal...no, he's not any of those except in flashes (good effort vs BOS)

what do we really need that's gettable?

For me, it's throw picks around to get Maluach. Mosely would drool over a raw piece of 7' power and instinct with that level of mobility. We've had a tremendous defense without any kind of real rim-protecting deterrent. Maybe I'm underestimating WCJ - he does do an amazing job, at times, of switching onto smaller players and staying with them briefly...I just wish he'd get 10+ rebounds per game and not really look overmatched against the really big guys...sometimes he's dunking everything, grabbing boards in traffic and just looking possessed. He's awesome in spurts when he looks like he's playing angry - maybe right after he caught an accidental (or not) elbow...when I coached my young son, who was big & skilled among the other guys at the Y, I would marvel at the difference in his performance after he took a bump or, for whatever reason, got pissed off...I would (kind of) joke that I needed to call a timeout and pinch his tricep or nipple to get him going.

Anyway, what's our Center outlook? If you think it's fine as is, skip it and just go away

I doubt we address the center position this offseason other than maybe moving one.

Any reason or just because we have another issue and Weltman can't do two things in a summer?

Feeling the other needs seem to be more important. Assets and Cap space need to there 1st.

[jezzerinho]

If you run a PnR heavy offense, Goga has value. He's quite a savvy roll man, as evidenced by his great run of play when Franz was the primary ball handler after Paolo got injured.

But the way we play he's kind of lost.

I would ship him and JI off. They both have some positive value on their current contracts. WCJ I would split between C and PF and I'd sign a low-med salary center as a relief guy. Moe when he returns can be worked in.

We need a rel.PG and an offensive backup PF more than anything. Moe and Wendell can help to a degree with the latter. All focus needs to go on the former.

[Skybox]

I'm fascinated with a guy like Sabonis (or, better yet, Sabonis) running the high post, getting the ball moving, rewarding cutters and creating easy shots. Even with his defensive questions, he's collecting tons of rebounds and he's become a floor spreader too. I guess that's bled into my analysis of Wolf, whether it's really accurate or not.

BTW, lots of great players have "questionable" or "poor" defense...it's overstated. IMO, the team and Coach can compensate to a great degree...but it's not like stars like Sabonis (or even Simons or Reaves) are just literally stuck to the floor.

[AdamTheGreek]

Is Myles Turner worth a look?

Not worth his new contract asking price and I still don’t think he’s mentally strong to win a title.

If the Clippers are looking to retool, I’d look at Zubac.
If we’re interested in White, we could do a package including Vooch.

We need a legitimate sized center (that’s why I’d say no to Naz Reid because he’s undersized).

[AdamTheGreek]

I'm fascinated with a guy like Sabonis (or, better yet, Sabonis) running the high post, getting the ball moving, rewarding cutters and creating easy shots. Even with his defensive questions, he's collecting tons of rebounds and he's become a floor spreader too. I guess that's bled into my analysis of Wolf, whether it's really accurate or not.

BTW, lots of great players have "questionable" or "poor" defense...it's overstated. IMO, the team and Coach can compensate to a great degree...but it's not like stars like Sabonis (or even Simons or Reaves) are just literally stuck to the floor.

I like Domantas, but his salary is brutal.

Lauri and Vooch are cheaper and do similar things as Sabonis.

[AdamTheGreek]

Brook Lopez for 2 yrs $15m.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using RealGM mobile app

$15 mil. per season, yeah?
Definitely wouldn’t get him for $7.5 mil.

Even at 37, he’s still hitting 3s well and blocking shots. I’m just worried his legs might be gone even if he started 80 games.

[dsg2021]

Sabonis would be awesome, but it's probably switching over to that summer track of adding another star level contract and player.

For the win-now phase we want to be in, Brook is worth it, even if for 1-2 seasons. I'd welcome Vooch back for sure too.

I'm a big Myles Turner fan, and Naz Reid fan. Naz Reid would look awfully similar to WCJ on paper and identical in height as an undersized C, but if we're talking opportunities where like MIN can't quite keep him because of Apron, and we can grab Naz for a good price we gotta do it after checking other dominos falling first.

[Bensational]

Brook Lopez for 2 yrs $15m.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using RealGM mobile app

$15 mil. per season, yeah?
Definitely wouldn’t get him for $7.5 mil.

Even at 37, he’s still hitting 3s well and blocking shots. I’m just worried his legs might be gone even if he started 80 games.

Do we have the rebounding to work with Brook though? He’s great at boxing out but not a strong rebounder, so it would mean Paolo, Franz + guards have to crash the boards more.

[pepe1991]

Brook Lopez for 2 yrs $15m.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using RealGM mobile app

$15 mil. per season, yeah?
Definitely wouldn’t get him for $7.5 mil.

Even at 37, he’s still hitting 3s well and blocking shots. I’m just worried his legs might be gone even if he started 80 games.

Do we have the rebounding to work with Brook though? He’s great at boxing out but not a strong rebounder, so it would mean Paolo, Franz + guards have to crash the boards more.

archetype of Brook would be very good fit, rebounding would be shaky.
But Brook is done.

His playoff numbers vs Pacers:
15 mpg
5,0 ppg
1,6 rpg
36% FG
26,7% for 3

Playing 3 years in a row 78,78 and 80 games in RS probably ended him.

[cedric76]

I m happy with our WCJ/Moe/JI/ Goga Big rotation
Draft Maxime Raynaud with a SRP

We have bigger needs than our C spot

[zaymon]

I'm fascinated with a guy like Sabonis (or, better yet, Sabonis) running the high post, getting the ball moving, rewarding cutters and creating easy shots. Even with his defensive questions, he's collecting tons of rebounds and he's become a floor spreader too. I guess that's bled into my analysis of Wolf, whether it's really accurate or not.

BTW, lots of great players have "questionable" or "poor" defense...it's overstated. IMO, the team and Coach can compensate to a great degree...but it's not like stars like Sabonis (or even Simons or Reaves) are just literally stuck to the floor.

I am also fascinated by his fit here. I wrote about it before but the topic never clicked.
Its like simultaneously going with and against the tide.
Teams build around guys like Jokic and Sengun showed you can win with those guys. You need more pieces than building around dominant defender but its doable.
What are those pieces ? I would say big forwards. Its kind of logical that when you dont have one big player to protect the rim (and drop most often), you use more bigger players to switch and protect the paint from help position.
I would risk to say we have more pieces to build around offensive center than defensive one (its a good argument i will gladly have with you all).
Wagner is near elite defender. Paolo showed he can protect the paint while motivated. Even Suggs can protect the paint some as a guard.
Sabonis gives us rebounding. Devastating screens which you can argue are more important for Paolo and Franz in role we envision them than ball handling guard.
He also gives us plamaking which can enable our cutters which in turn lowers the importance of ball handling (biggest weakness of all our guards). With a guy like Sabonis we could also focus on guards who can penetrate but not playmake at great level. Guy like Sexton comes to mind.
I also like that Sabonis is a tough player and we need it badly. WCJ as skilled as he is (not as skilled as Sabonis) is soft like a tissue most of the time.

Sexton/Suggs/Wagner/Bachero/Sabonis

I would love to watch that team next season and would do a lot to make it work salary wise. I think its doable. I dont know if its worth it but its doable.

[AdamTheGreek]

Brook Lopez for 2 yrs $15m.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using RealGM mobile app

$15 mil. per season, yeah?
Definitely wouldn’t get him for $7.5 mil.

Even at 37, he’s still hitting 3s well and blocking shots. I’m just worried his legs might be gone even if he started 80 games.

Do we have the rebounding to work with Brook though? He’s great at boxing out but not a strong rebounder, so it would mean Paolo, Franz + guards have to crash the boards more.

It’s a problem and why I’d likely stay away.

[tiderulz]

I m happy with our WCJ/Moe/JI/ Goga Big rotation
Draft Maxime Raynaud with a SRP

We have bigger needs than our C spot

this is how i feel. you have the opportunity for an absolute unicorn at the center spot, then okay. otherwise, many teams have won with average guys at center.

[BadMofoPimp]

I'm fascinated with a guy like Sabonis (or, better yet, Sabonis) running the high post, getting the ball moving, rewarding cutters and creating easy shots. Even with his defensive questions, he's collecting tons of rebounds and he's become a floor spreader too. I guess that's bled into my analysis of Wolf, whether it's really accurate or not.

BTW, lots of great players have "questionable" or "poor" defense...it's overstated. IMO, the team and Coach can compensate to a great degree...but it's not like stars like Sabonis (or even Simons or Reaves) are just literally stuck to the floor.

I like Domantas, but his salary is brutal.

Lauri and Vooch are cheaper and do similar things as Sabonis.

Lauri making $47 mil next season is cheap?

[tiderulz]

I'm fascinated with a guy like Sabonis (or, better yet, Sabonis) running the high post, getting the ball moving, rewarding cutters and creating easy shots. Even with his defensive questions, he's collecting tons of rebounds and he's become a floor spreader too. I guess that's bled into my analysis of Wolf, whether it's really accurate or not.

BTW, lots of great players have "questionable" or "poor" defense...it's overstated. IMO, the team and Coach can compensate to a great degree...but it's not like stars like Sabonis (or even Simons or Reaves) are just literally stuck to the floor.

I am also fascinated by his fit here. I wrote about it before but the topic never clicked.
Its like simultaneously going with and against the tide.
Teams build around guys like Jokic and Sengun showed you can win with those guys. You need more pieces than building around dominant defender but its doable.
What are those pieces ? I would say big forwards. Its kind of logical that when you dont have one big player to protect the rim (and drop most often), you use more bigger players to switch and protect the paint from help position.
I would risk to say we have more pieces to build around offensive center than defensive one (its a good argument i will gladly have with you all).
Wagner is near elite defender. Paolo showed he can protect the paint while motivated. Even Suggs can protect the paint some as a guard.
Sabonis gives us rebounding. Devastating screens which you can argue are more important for Paolo and Franz in role we envision them than ball handling guard.
He also gives us plamaking which can enable our cutters which in turn lowers the importance of ball handling (biggest weakness of all our guards). With a guy like Sabonis we could also focus on guards who can penetrate but not playmake at great level. Guy like Sexton comes to mind.
I also like that Sabonis is a tough player and we need it badly. WCJ as skilled as he is (not as skilled as Sabonis) is soft like a tissue most of the time.

Sexton/Suggs/Wagner/Bachero/Sabonis

I would love to watch that team next season and would do a lot to make it work salary wise. I think its doable. I dont know if its worth it but its doable.

well, 1 is a hall of famer. Houston improved imo with better wings. yes, Green laid an egg in the playoffs, but he had a very good regular season.

[Skybox]

let's talk about Vuc...seriously - get past your knee-jerk reactions and seriously consider. Don't hang up the phone without truly considering that Vuc has been an All-Star and a solid contributor for over a decade - it's not unthinkable that he's an NBA defender...too many quick dismissals around here...

He's certainly available
Expiring $21.5m
34 yo, played in 70+ games (for the 5th year in a row)
Old, but as (non ) athletic as he was a 25yo...his game's never been dependent on that
18.5 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 3.5 apg
40.2% from 3 this year (the reports of his demise have been exaggerated)
He's a VERY intelligent player, always has been...if Mose has a different role for him, he's adaptable
His defense is a significant concern, but his size & intelligence makes me think Mose can scheme with and around him to get the offensive benefit
-early in his ORL career, he had post moves like Kevin McHale, absolutely un-guardable one on one, perfect footwork & touch
-3pt shooting took over the league and he simply incorporated it and excelled
-prior to being moved largely to the perimeter, he was in contention for the league lead in rebounding (I think KLove beat him in the last week)
*my point is that I think he has the skills & smarts to be more of a high-post playmaker, ceding much of the scoring load to Paolo & Franz

ORL sends: Goga Bitadze, KCP, #25, ORL 26 frp (lottery protected)
CHI sends: Nikola Vucevic, Coby White
Why CHI: get a young inexpensive C to hold the line while draftee Maluach learns the ropes, strong vet defensive presence next to Giddey, TWO frps

*not sure what to do with Cole...maybe someone would take him into a trade exception or MLE with a srp attached? or, just keep him for a year or TD

Decline Moe's $11m option & re-sign at $8m x 3 years. Exercise Caleb & CoJo. Decline Gary Harris' 7.5m TO...Draft Wolf at #16, unless Raynaud jumps up in workouts & interviews.

Vucevic, WCJ, Wolf (Moe)
Paolo, WCJ, Isaac
Franz, Isaac, Caleb
Suggs, AB, TdS
White, CoJo, AB

*I don't like TdS getting buried - I think he's promising, but that's a lot of talent. There's a significant degree of playmaking at all 5 starting spots-even without an ACTUAL PG. Significant shooting upgrades...Wolf might be the heir-apparent. I'd still like to get Ingles in the mix somehow, even just to take Wolf, AB, TdS, Suggs aside and talk philosophy/slowing the game down, getting to spots, basically old-guy crafty hoops. We can figure out Coby's next deal when the time comes...it's not like he's going to take another giant leap. Good player, but he's only really been relevant for a couple of seasons. His fit in ORL is excellent and, if he plays like a winner, his efficiency will jump but his scoring will likely drop a bit and, maybe, some of the inflated ideas about how much his next deal will be.

[basketballRob]

Vuc is not good. How many examples do you need of him not being a winning player? The last time I watched him, it looked like he lost a step, and it was taking a lot of effort to move his big frame around. He offers no resistance at the basket and can't guard the perimeter.

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