2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I personally would’ve extended Jimmy for a year and traded for KD this summer and went from there with a big 4 of KD/Bam/Jimmy/Herro and if I needed to move Tyler to fill out the roster with some high level 3 and D role players so be it. Tell Micky to offset that tax bill with championship revenue.

[Kobewade11]

I'm normally not very critical of the front office and find myself defending them. But if they give up value for KD, when (imo, fair if you don't agree) they had a player just as impactful, who already worked beautifully in our system, and could have just paid him what they'd pay KD, it's a mind bogglingly stupid decision. And I think anyone who didn't want to just pay Jimmy, is being a hypocrite, unless you're a huge KD fan.

But again, that's my view. I get some people think KD is a tier or two above Jimmy, but when it comes to winning basketball in the playoffs I don't agree with that stance and I think any effort/value that gets put into acquiring KD makes the front office hypocrites. And I hate hypocrites.

Put me in the camp that views KD as a clear tier above Jimmy. In fact, I think we get over the hump and win a title in at least one of those years if we had KD instead. That said I'm still not a fan of giving up major draft capital for a 37 year old, and I've cooled on a potential pursuit in general, but I can also respect an organization's take that KD is probably less taxing on you day to day than the other guy..just going off what's been put out there.

[Hallstar]

I'm normally not very critical of the front office and find myself defending them. But if they give up value for KD, when (imo, fair if you don't agree) they had a player just as impactful, who already worked beautifully in our system, and could have just paid him what they'd pay KD, it's a mind bogglingly stupid decision. And I think anyone who didn't want to just pay Jimmy, is being a hypocrite, unless you're a huge KD fan.

But again, that's my view. I get some people think KD is a tier or two above Jimmy, but when it comes to winning basketball in the playoffs I don't agree with that stance and I think any effort/value that gets put into acquiring KD makes the front office hypocrites. And I hate hypocrites.

KDs effort is never questioned, I think that's where the issue is. Dude is one of those guys that just cares about hoops. He never has outside drama. If we get KD and are 5th seed or better it beats another year of Jimmy and the play in.

[Beenie]

KD just missed the playoffs this year, got swept in the first round last year, and overall, has lost in the last 6 playoff games he’s been in.

Your savior eh

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I personally would’ve extended Jimmy for a year and traded for KD this summer and went from there with a big 4 of KD/Bam/Jimmy/Herro and if I needed to move Tyler to fill out the roster with some high level 3 and D role players so be it. Tell Micky to offset that tax bill with championship revenue.

Actually, this brings up a great point I wasn't even thinking of. Even if you believe KD >>> Jimmy, why on earth aren't you keeping Jimmy for that build? He's actually healthier than KD (I'll take the guy playing on a non repaired achilles any day of the week), he's younger, he fits perfectly as the ball handler next to KD. It just makes no sense to backtrack and trade for a win now guy on a small window, when the same packages you'd be offering for him are still there with Jimmy on the team. PLUS with Jimmy, you have the option of trading him directly for KD, or sending out Tyler.

Any way you look at it, trying to acquire KD now after trading Jimmy for a bag of chips instead of just re-signing him makes the front office look like buffoons.

[MettaWorldPanda]

I personally would’ve extended Jimmy for a year and traded for KD this summer and went from there with a big 4 of KD/Bam/Jimmy/Herro and if I needed to move Tyler to fill out the roster with some high level 3 and D role players so be it. Tell Micky to offset that tax bill with championship revenue.

Actually, this brings up a great point I wasn't even thinking of. Even if you believe KD >>> Jimmy, why on earth aren't you keeping Jimmy for that build? He's actually healthier than KD (I'll take the guy playing on a non repaired achilles any day of the week), he's younger, he fits perfectly as the ball handler next to KD. It just makes no sense to backtrack and trade for a win now guy on a small window, when the same packages you'd be offering for him are still there with Jimmy on the team. PLUS with Jimmy, you have the option of trading him directly for KD, or sending out Tyler.

Any way you look at it, trying to acquire KD now after trading Jimmy for a bag of chips instead of just re-signing him makes the front office look like buffoons.

The cap is the reason why. Look at the numbers and it tells everything you need to know.

[Kobewade11]

Actually, this brings up a great point I wasn't even thinking of. Even if you believe KD >>> Jimmy, why on earth aren't you keeping Jimmy for that build? He's actually healthier than KD (I'll take the guy playing on a non repaired achilles any day of the week), he's younger, he fits perfectly as the ball handler next to KD. It just makes no sense to backtrack and trade for a win now guy on a small window, when the same packages you'd be offering for him are still there with Jimmy on the team. PLUS with Jimmy, you have the option of trading him directly for KD, or sending out Tyler.

Any way you look at it, trying to acquire KD now after trading Jimmy for a bag of chips instead of just re-signing him makes the front office look like buffoons.

Were you down to trade Bam for KD when he was in BK? That's what the Nets asking price was, and you could have paired somewhat peak KD with Jimmy probably at the best he'll ever be

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I personally would’ve extended Jimmy for a year and traded for KD this summer and went from there with a big 4 of KD/Bam/Jimmy/Herro and if I needed to move Tyler to fill out the roster with some high level 3 and D role players so be it. Tell Micky to offset that tax bill with championship revenue.

Actually, this brings up a great point I wasn't even thinking of. Even if you believe KD >>> Jimmy, why on earth aren't you keeping Jimmy for that build? He's actually healthier than KD (I'll take the guy playing on a non repaired achilles any day of the week), he's younger, he fits perfectly as the ball handler next to KD. It just makes no sense to backtrack and trade for a win now guy on a small window, when the same packages you'd be offering for him are still there with Jimmy on the team. PLUS with Jimmy, you have the option of trading him directly for KD, or sending out Tyler.

Any way you look at it, trying to acquire KD now after trading Jimmy for a bag of chips instead of just re-signing him makes the front office look like buffoons.

Honestly I’d put majority of the blame on egos. I actually do think the FO was willing to extend him if he was more available but they went about it probably the worst possible way they could have by bashing him in the exit interviews. From the second Riley answered Tobins dumbass question the writing was on the wall, Pat and Jimmy are two very prideful dudes clearly and it got real petty from that point on. I also don’t think that Jimmy liked Spo changing the offense to feature everyone outside of he and Bam more and saying that those 2 guys would have to adapt to the new offense (the new offense was worse than the prior) and I think that caused some on court issues as well.

Now they’re looking at KD to replace Jimmy (who they may have actually been open to extending had he played more) and don’t see an issue with now trading for KD to fill that void.

That team would’ve been insane if we added KD.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I personally would’ve extended Jimmy for a year and traded for KD this summer and went from there with a big 4 of KD/Bam/Jimmy/Herro and if I needed to move Tyler to fill out the roster with some high level 3 and D role players so be it. Tell Micky to offset that tax bill with championship revenue.

Actually, this brings up a great point I wasn't even thinking of. Even if you believe KD >>> Jimmy, why on earth aren't you keeping Jimmy for that build? He's actually healthier than KD (I'll take the guy playing on a non repaired achilles any day of the week), he's younger, he fits perfectly as the ball handler next to KD. It just makes no sense to backtrack and trade for a win now guy on a small window, when the same packages you'd be offering for him are still there with Jimmy on the team. PLUS with Jimmy, you have the option of trading him directly for KD, or sending out Tyler.

Any way you look at it, trying to acquire KD now after trading Jimmy for a bag of chips instead of just re-signing him makes the front office look like buffoons.

The cap is the reason why. Look at the numbers and it tells everything you need to know.

I used to know the cap like the back of my hand when Wade was playing but I admittedly don’t keep up much anymore. What would the issue be either having KDs salary replace Terry Duncan and Highsmith or something next to Jimmy Bam and Tyler? And then why couldn’t we dump Tyler for someone making half his money if we needed a get out of jail card of I’m assuming impending 2nd apron issues?

[MettaWorldPanda]

Read on Twitter

[MettaWorldPanda]

Actually, this brings up a great point I wasn't even thinking of. Even if you believe KD >>> Jimmy, why on earth aren't you keeping Jimmy for that build? He's actually healthier than KD (I'll take the guy playing on a non repaired achilles any day of the week), he's younger, he fits perfectly as the ball handler next to KD. It just makes no sense to backtrack and trade for a win now guy on a small window, when the same packages you'd be offering for him are still there with Jimmy on the team. PLUS with Jimmy, you have the option of trading him directly for KD, or sending out Tyler.

Any way you look at it, trying to acquire KD now after trading Jimmy for a bag of chips instead of just re-signing him makes the front office look like buffoons.

The cap is the reason why. Look at the numbers and it tells everything you need to know.

I used to know the cap like the back of my hand when Wade was playing but I admittedly don’t keep up much anymore. What would the issue be either having KDs salary replace Terry Duncan and Highsmith or something next to Jimmy Bam and Tyler? And then why couldn’t we dump Tyler for someone making half his money if we needed a get out of jail card of I’m assuming impending 2nd apron issues?

Two 60 million dollar salaries with Bam and Herro would have us well into the tax after filling out the roster. Not realistic. Yes the answer could possibly have been dumping Herro but that was never going to happen.

[eddieheatfan]

i just hope to hear these words from riley tomorrow:







then




because

[3ammy3uck3ts]

The cap is the reason why. Look at the numbers and it tells everything you need to know.

I used to know the cap like the back of my hand when Wade was playing but I admittedly don’t keep up much anymore. What would the issue be either having KDs salary replace Terry Duncan and Highsmith or something next to Jimmy Bam and Tyler? And then why couldn’t we dump Tyler for someone making half his money if we needed a get out of jail card of I’m assuming impending 2nd apron issues?

Two 60 million dollar salaries with Bam and Herro would have us well into the tax after filling out the roster. Not realistic. Yes the answer could possibly have been dumping Herro but that was never going to happen.

Gotta pay the price for the ultimate goal brother!!

[Flash4thewin]

Read on Twitter

This doesn’t even make sense. No way KD is ok with any trade without a two year max extension. Much ado about nothing.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I used to know the cap like the back of my hand when Wade was playing but I admittedly don’t keep up much anymore. What would the issue be either having KDs salary replace Terry Duncan and Highsmith or something next to Jimmy Bam and Tyler? And then why couldn’t we dump Tyler for someone making half his money if we needed a get out of jail card of I’m assuming impending 2nd apron issues?

Two 60 million dollar salaries with Bam and Herro would have us well into the tax after filling out the roster. Not realistic. Yes the answer could possibly have been dumping Herro but that was never going to happen.

Gotta pay the price for the ultimate goal brother!!

Yeah but also if you're going to be going for the win now KD move, why wouldn't you go with KD/Jimmy and dump Tyler? Or at least keep Jimmy as a superior trade piece for KD over Wiggins and spare parts? None of it actually makes any sense, unless you go with "Pat **** up and is desperately begging KD to come and save his ass". Which I would pass on because you don't need to dig your hole any deeper, even if you feel like you made a mistake.

(just as an aside, watching Jimmy tonight, he ain't Himmy anymore either so I dunno, I think we made the right move, maybe trade him in the offseason to get a bit more out of it but this team needs to move on and either suck enough to draft someone, or get an actual franchise piece that isn't at the end of their career in 2026)

[Hoops3355]

I personally would’ve extended Jimmy for a year and traded for KD this summer and went from there with a big 4 of KD/Bam/Jimmy/Herro and if I needed to move Tyler to fill out the roster with some high level 3 and D role players so be it. Tell Micky to offset that tax bill with championship revenue.

That's what most people figured was gonna happen during the pre-season thread (swap KD for anyone) but Jimmy legit didn't want to play in regular season for whatever reason. This season is gonna be so wack to look back on in a decade.

[RexBoyWonder]

To sum up my KD thoughts :


1) He's way too old
2) He'll cost way too much to trade for
3) He'll cost way too much in future cap space
4) The team around him won't be good enough to really contend anyway
5) He's never happy anywhere, been failing for years, never was a dog type leader.
6) Makes no sense to lose Jimmy due to age and extentension and then bring in an older player.
7) He's not exactly the type of creator for others this roster really needs, he's a scorer more then an engine like Trea Young or Haliburton.
8) He left the team that drafted him which was a great team to join the team that beat them. Biggest bitch move in free agency history.
9) Long history of serious injuries, and now he's 37YO.
10) F@ck this chit.

[VaDe255]

I know it’s not the popular opinion, but if you strip away the names and just look at the numbers and roles, it becomes pretty obvious: at this point in their careers, Herro is a more effective offensive engine than Durant.



Impact Metrics Don't Lie
O-LEBRON: Herro +1.93 | Durant +1.7
OEPM: Herro +3.7 | Durant +3.0

Let’s start with the general impact stats LEBRON and EPM, ones used by actual FOs to evaluate players.
Herro comes out ahead across the board offensively. Even defensively, Durant’s slight edge doesn’t shift the balance.
Also Herro is trending upward, while Durant, though still effective, is declining year over year.

Playmaking: Role Context Matters
Assists Herro 5.5 | Durant 4.2
Assist %: Herro 26.2% | Durant 19.6%
Ast/TO Ratio: Herro 2.12 | Durant 1.35

Both players had ~28% usage this season.
Durant played next to Booker, who handled primary creation duties. His high assisted FG rates reflect that: 88.8% of his 3s and 43.3% of his 2s were assisted. Whereas Herro was the initiator, creating shots for himself and others in a tighter offensive system.
That context matters. Herro had more on ball responsibility and still posted excellent playmaking efficiency.

Scoring Profile & Rim Pressure
TS%: Durant 64.2% | Herro 60.5%
Rim Rate: Durant 12.99% | Herro 19.67%
Rim FG%: Durant 73.3% | Herro 62.0%
FT Rate: Durant 5.7 FTs | Herro 4.2 FTs

Durant remains an elite shooter and finisher, no one’s denying that. But the trends tell a deeper story. He’s rarely getting to the rim anymore (just 13% of shots), and though his finishing is still elite, the declining rim pressure signals reduced burst and physicality.
Herro, meanwhile, has increased his rim attempts and maintained strong efficiency for a guard. His FT rate significantly increased this year but is still lower than Durant's. Drawing fouls and generating free points is a key part of Durant’s efficiency advantage.

Final Takeaway
Durant is still a valuable scorer, but his role is increasingly that of a finisher not a creator. Herro is carrying more of the offensive burden, creating more for teammates, and evolving especially in areas that typically signal growth (rim rate, shot profile and playmaking).

This isn't about legacy or resume. If you're building for next season and evaluating current impact, not reputation, Herro is the more viable offensive engine.

There’s no reason for Miami to chase aging names at a premium cost. If the team isn’t moving Bam or Herro (to be clear I think they should), the focus should be on rounding out the roster, improving depth and fit, and betting on continuity. A healthy version of this team that doesn’t have to deal with major drama or blow historic leads could flip the narrative.

Also, I really disagree with the idea that Herro should be moved into more of an off ball role. Coming into the season, he was preparing to play alongside Jimmy as more of an off ball weapon. But after Jimmy requested a trade and missed extended time and Terry turned out to be useless, Herro ended up shouldering that responsibility. Not by design, but by necessity.

He showed clear growth as a lead guard, better playmaking, improved ball handling and more rim pressure than we’ve seen in prior years. If you’re paying someone $30M+ to be a liability/neutral on one end, they need to be the primary engine on the other, not a specialist who still requires elite creation and elite defense around him just to be viable.

That’s why I don’t think the answer is to scale Herro back into a secondary role. The better move is to give him a full season as the clear offensive leader with better fitting players, evaluate how far he can take it and then make a long term decision. There’s no need to rush an extension right now, take the year, let him grow into the role fully, and reassess from a position of clarity.

Herro has earned that opportunity with the leap he made this year.

[greg4012]

I personally would’ve extended Jimmy for a year and traded for KD this summer and went from there with a big 4 of KD/Bam/Jimmy/Herro and if I needed to move Tyler to fill out the roster with some high level 3 and D role players so be it. Tell Micky to offset that tax bill with championship revenue.

Actually, this brings up a great point I wasn't even thinking of. Even if you believe KD >>> Jimmy, why on earth aren't you keeping Jimmy for that build? He's actually healthier than KD (I'll take the guy playing on a non repaired achilles any day of the week), he's younger, he fits perfectly as the ball handler next to KD. It just makes no sense to backtrack and trade for a win now guy on a small window, when the same packages you'd be offering for him are still there with Jimmy on the team. PLUS with Jimmy, you have the option of trading him directly for KD, or sending out Tyler.

Any way you look at it, trying to acquire KD now after trading Jimmy for a bag of chips instead of just re-signing him makes the front office look like buffoons.

Scarcity of resources.

Also, IDK what you've been following, but in sports, teams typically pursue trades and have to convince multiple other parties that it benefits them (i.e. the other trading party, the player(s) involved, etc.). In this hypothetical, how do the Heat get the benefit of operating with clear certainty that they will be able to acquire KD (without having the benefit of moving salary attached to an actual productive player--Wiggins--or additional draft capital)?

In fantasy land, it would have been REAL nice to just give Jimmy his extended max contract knowing Miami would be adding KD in the offseason (bc somehow that would be guaranteed) while only trading garbage to PHX. That would have made the additional max year of Jimmy's contract (age 37 season) worth it to pair Durant and Jimmy with Bam and Herro for 2 seasons of contention.

[greg4012]

I know it’s not the popular opinion, but if you strip away the names and just look at the numbers and roles, it becomes pretty obvious: at this point in their careers, Herro is a more effective offensive engine than Durant.



Impact Metrics Don't Lie
O-LEBRON: Herro +1.93 | Durant +1.7
OEPM: Herro +3.7 | Durant +3.0

Let’s start with the general impact stats LEBRON and EPM, ones used by actual FOs to evaluate players.
Herro comes out ahead across the board offensively. Even defensively, Durant’s slight edge doesn’t shift the balance.
Also Herro is trending upward, while Durant, though still effective, is declining year over year.

Playmaking: Role Context Matters
Assists Herro 5.5 | Durant 4.2
Assist %: Herro 26.2% | Durant 19.6%
Ast/TO Ratio: Herro 2.12 | Durant 1.35

Both players had ~28% usage this season.
Durant played next to Booker, who handled primary creation duties. His high assisted FG rates reflect that: 88.8% of his 3s and 43.3% of his 2s were assisted. Whereas Herro was the initiator, creating shots for himself and others in a tighter offensive system.
That context matters. Herro had more on ball responsibility and still posted excellent playmaking efficiency.

Scoring Profile & Rim Pressure
TS%: Durant 64.2% | Herro 60.5%
Rim Rate: Durant 12.99% | Herro 19.67%
Rim FG%: Durant 73.3% | Herro 62.0%
FT Rate: Durant 5.7 FTs | Herro 4.2 FTs

Durant remains an elite shooter and finisher, no one’s denying that. But the trends tell a deeper story. He’s rarely getting to the rim anymore (just 13% of shots), and though his finishing is still elite, the declining rim pressure signals reduced burst and physicality.
Herro, meanwhile, has increased his rim attempts and maintained strong efficiency for a guard. His FT rate significantly increased this year but is still lower than Durant's. Drawing fouls and generating free points is a key part of Durant’s efficiency advantage.

Final Takeaway
Durant is still a valuable scorer, but his role is increasingly that of a finisher not a creator. Herro is carrying more of the offensive burden, creating more for teammates, and evolving especially in areas that typically signal growth (rim rate, shot profile and playmaking).

This isn't about legacy or resume. If you're building for next season and evaluating current impact, not reputation, Herro is the more viable offensive engine.

There’s no reason for Miami to chase aging names at a premium cost. If the team isn’t moving Bam or Herro (to be clear I think they should), the focus should be on rounding out the roster, improving depth and fit, and betting on continuity. A healthy version of this team that doesn’t have to deal with major drama or blow historic leads could flip the narrative.

Also, I really disagree with the idea that Herro should be moved into more of an off ball role. Coming into the season, he was preparing to play alongside Jimmy as more of an off ball weapon. But after Jimmy requested a trade and missed extended time and Terry turned out to be useless, Herro ended up shouldering that responsibility. Not by design, but by necessity.

He showed clear growth as a lead guard, better playmaking, improved ball handling and more rim pressure than we’ve seen in prior years. If you’re paying someone $30M+ to be a liability/neutral on one end, they need to be the primary engine on the other, not a specialist who still requires elite creation and elite defense around him just to be viable.

That’s why I don’t think the answer is to scale Herro back into a secondary role. The better move is to give him a full season as the clear offensive leader with better fitting players, evaluate how far he can take it and then make a long term decision. There’s no need to rush an extension right now, take the year, let him grow into the role fully, and reassess from a position of clarity.

Herro has earned that opportunity with the leap he made this year.

Simple explanation: Durant has played with offensive redundancies in Phoenix (Booker and Beal) rather than complements. Herro is literally the only perimeter offensive creator on the Miami Heat roster.

Pretty clear to see and understand the bball dynamics at play.

Impact metrics may not lie, but they require context and understanding of what they're measuring in order to properly navigate and utilize. They aren't a one-stop shop authority that stand above reproach.