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2025 Draft Thread - Part 2

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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#281 » by dckingsfan » Fri May 9, 2025 11:48 pm

The Consiglieri wrote:Had a hilarious tankathon run after reading the recent Wiz Draft article on scenarios.
Spin 1: 6
Spin 2: 6
Spin 3: 5
Spin 4: 5
Spin 5: 6

Holy mother of god, if that's the kind of luck we bring monday, I'd walk out the lobby and not check back in again until May '26. Just, gtfo with that horse ----. A reminder of how insanely stupid the current lottery set up is.

Do not - I repeat - DO NOT tune into the draft. Don't even look at the results for an entire week. Don't think about the draft and do not show up with Bub!!!!

I have had some bad tankathon spins - but this, smh!
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#282 » by Jay81 » Sat May 10, 2025 1:45 am

Is Nolan trarore playing himself back into a lottery pick?
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#283 » by Jay81 » Sat May 10, 2025 2:11 am

The Consiglieri wrote:Had a hilarious tankathon run after reading the recent Wiz Draft article on scenarios.
Spin 1: 6
Spin 2: 6
Spin 3: 5
Spin 4: 5
Spin 5: 6

Holy mother of god, if that's the kind of luck we bring monday, I'd walk out the lobby and not check back in again until May '26. Just, gtfo with that horse ----. A reminder of how insanely stupid the current lottery set up is.

Makes no sense. We have a 80 percent chance of a top 5 pick
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#284 » by pcbothwel » Sat May 10, 2025 2:25 am

Jay81 wrote:Is Nolan trarore playing himself back into a lottery pick?

Easily. Elite BBall athlete (speed, strength through contact, and reaction time) with great playmaking potential at 18 against a men in a high level league.
I would love to add him to the mix with Bub and AJ.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#285 » by Dat2U » Sat May 10, 2025 2:53 am

nate33 wrote:I just ran a Tankathon mock. We ended up at #1 with Flagg. Charlotte had Harper at #2. I thought that was an interesting scenario. Charlotte doesn't really need Harper, and we are a team who really needs a point guard like Harper to drive the offense.

If that scenario came to pass, what would Charlotte have to offer to move up to #1? Would you do it for the #2 pick and an unprotected 2026 pick? Or maybe the #2 pick, an unprotected 2026 pick and an unprotected 2028 pick?

Or is trading Flagg just a total non-starter?

I wonder how much we would have to offer to acquire the #2 pick from Charlotte while still keeping the #1? Would they do it for Sarr and Bub? Or perhaps Bilal and Bub? It would be pretty sweet to start next year with Harper AND Flagg.


I personally could see a scenario where I would move Flagg to take Harper at 2. I'd want a sure thing in return in addition to future draft picks. Would Charlotte be willing to give up B. Miller? I'd definitely be asking for him in return.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#286 » by doclinkin » Sat May 10, 2025 3:57 am

The Consiglieri wrote:
I might be more interested in a more nuanced debate about how NIL payments, and the ever growing relevance of both the international market in prospects over the past 20 years, as well as growing relevance of analytics tweaked historical results and so changed a touch of the data of the more recent past, and how they might impact future classes and hit rates.



We know what this team is going to do.

They are going to use their first first, at slot (or trade up if by some miracle a team is interested in trading down).

With their second pick, they're picking at slot, or moving up. Could they trade it for a future? I could see that. What I can't see is a move down, unless future picks are a part of said trade.

….

I can see only one of two directions consistently and in general: Trying to acquire the highest upside prospects possible, and adding to the golden loom of picks in future years, that's what I'm about 1000% sure they're doing.


The NIL has a few effects. Some beneficial some questionable. Temporarily, at least it will shrink the draft pool, while there is an arm race between colleges that have deep pockets. This means that some players will return to school both to get paid and improve their draft position. This primarily affects players who are projected into the second round and the late First round.

However, interestingly, it means it will begin to attract European players who in the past were playing in club teams overseas. We’ve already seen that in players like Demin. The money that’s available in college is currently better than they are getting paid in pro leagues overseas. Or can be.

This will continue for a little bit since the CBA is locked in and the rookie pay scale is exceedingly cheap. Or at least it will be, compared to some of the auction money available for prized NCAA players. As far as the cap issues are concerned, however rookies will be an extremely good bargain, since the cap is due to explode when the new TV deals kick in

Still, one and done players Will always tend to jump immediately to the NBA to start their first contract. The true talents who are likely to be lottery picks can earn more money on there lifetime ledger the earlier they jump to the pro league.

However, this means the second half of the lottery will have Better seasoned players who stayed at least an additional year to improve their draft position. I think we will see better production from these players. They may not have the upside of the phenoms at the top of the draft, but a smart team will get excellent value from , the back half of the first round. I suspect some agents will try to maneuver their players to slip to the top half of the second round where contracts can be negotiated better.

I think the wizards are poised to do quite well exploding this market, once we get a core of high usage high-efficiency players from our top draft picks, we can build and supplement around them with fundamentally sound players that show steady progression at the back half of the first round.

If the draft continues to be starved of prospects, however, I suspect the competition committee will recommend a memorandum of understanding to adjust the rookie scale, and the union will not balk at paying their younger players better money.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#287 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Sat May 10, 2025 12:06 pm

FYI

NBA Draft Lottery

Televised on ESPN Monday at 7pm.


Day 1 NBA Combine

Televised on NBATV Thursday at 8pm.


Day 2 NBA Combine

Televised on NBATV Friday at 8pm.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#288 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Sat May 10, 2025 1:41 pm

Preview of the NBA Combine...







A good interview with Center prospect Maxime Raynaud...

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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#289 » by PaulinVA » Sat May 10, 2025 5:47 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#290 » by payitforward » Sat May 10, 2025 6:08 pm

Do NOT miss the interview with Maxime Raynaud! This is one impressive kid -- WOW!
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#291 » by payitforward » Sat May 10, 2025 8:16 pm

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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#292 » by PaulinVA » Sat May 10, 2025 8:34 pm

payitforward wrote:https://www.si.com/nba/draft/mock-drafts-big-boards/2025-nba-mock-draft-two-round-projections-ahead-of-lottery

My favorite mock draft so far -- why? check out picks 8 & 11.



:lol:

Leaves more for us to choose from at 18.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#293 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Sat May 10, 2025 11:59 pm

PaulinVA wrote:
payitforward wrote:https://www.si.com/nba/draft/mock-drafts-big-boards/2025-nba-mock-draft-two-round-projections-ahead-of-lottery

My favorite mock draft so far -- why? check out picks 8 & 11.



:lol:

Leaves more for us to choose from at 18.



One of them is supposed to be Jakucionis.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#294 » by dobrojim » Sun May 11, 2025 1:36 am

PaulinVA wrote:
Read on Twitter


If we drop to 5-6, I'd actually be pretty excited and
optimistic about Maluach. He's young, huge, smart.
And did I mention he's young and huge.
He has positional size.

Also his impact could be well timed
in terms of not losing our FRP next year.

BTW, watching Holmgren in the playoffs makes me
wonder if he would also be a good comp for Sarr.
I've been focusing on Mobley. If Sarr ends up being
as productive and impactful as either, I'd be really happy.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#295 » by 9 and 20 » Sun May 11, 2025 2:01 am

Yeah, my best guess is that they don't draft anyone ready to help next year (unless they land Flagg or Harper who would both be instant upgrades). Even at 18, I don't think they draft someone like Sorber who seems like a plug and play rotation big.

If they fall out of the top 2, I bet they go with Maluach or Fears or Bailey, not Queen or Edgecomb.
Can't say I do. Who else gonna shoot?
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#296 » by gesa2 » Sun May 11, 2025 4:40 am

doclinkin wrote:
The Consiglieri wrote:
I might be more interested in a more nuanced debate about how NIL payments, and the ever growing relevance of both the international market in prospects over the past 20 years, as well as growing relevance of analytics tweaked historical results and so changed a touch of the data of the more recent past, and how they might impact future classes and hit rates.



We know what this team is going to do.

They are going to use their first first, at slot (or trade up if by some miracle a team is interested in trading down).

With their second pick, they're picking at slot, or moving up. Could they trade it for a future? I could see that. What I can't see is a move down, unless future picks are a part of said trade.

….

I can see only one of two directions consistently and in general: Trying to acquire the highest upside prospects possible, and adding to the golden loom of picks in future years, that's what I'm about 1000% sure they're doing.


The NIL has a few effects. Some beneficial some questionable. Temporarily, at least it will shrink the draft pool, while there is an arm race between colleges that have deep pockets. This means that some players will return to school both to get paid and improve their draft position. This primarily affects players who are projected into the second round and the late First round.

However, interestingly, it means it will begin to attract European players who in the past were playing in club teams overseas. We’ve already seen that in players like Demin. The money that’s available in college is currently better than they are getting paid in pro leagues overseas. Or can be.

This will continue for a little bit since the CBA is locked in and the rookie pay scale is exceedingly cheap. Or at least it will be, compared to some of the auction money available for prized NCAA players. As far as the cap issues are concerned, however rookies will be an extremely good bargain, since the cap is due to explode when the new TV deals kick in

Still, one and done players Will always tend to jump immediately to the NBA to start their first contract. The true talents who are likely to be lottery picks can earn more money on there lifetime ledger the earlier they jump to the pro league.

However, this means the second half of the lottery will have Better seasoned players who stayed at least an additional year to improve their draft position. I think we will see better production from these players. They may not have the upside of the phenoms at the top of the draft, but a smart team will get excellent value from , the back half of the first round. I suspect some agents will try to maneuver their players to slip to the top half of the second round where contracts can be negotiated better.

I think the wizards are poised to do quite well exploding this market, once we get a core of high usage high-efficiency players from our top draft picks, we can build and supplement around them with fundamentally sound players that show steady progression at the back half of the first round.

If the draft continues to be starved of prospects, however, I suspect the competition committee will recommend a memorandum of understanding to adjust the rookie scale, and the union will not balk at paying their younger players better money.

I’m confused about this take Doc. Every player that takes NIL money this year and stays another year will eventually declare for the draft. All NIL does to the NBA is move more developmental less productive years into the college ranks and make the draft more predictable and contracts more efficient over time. I would expect that the number of players and the quality of them will even out within 2-3 years. It seems like a talent drain now but that’ll only last until a new steady state forms. Players only have so many years of availability in the NCAA
Making extreme statements like "only" sounds like there are "no" Jokics in this draft? Jokic is an engine that was drafted in the 2nd round. Always a chance to see diamond dropped by sloppy burgular after a theft.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#297 » by doclinkin » Sun May 11, 2025 10:45 am

gesa2 wrote:I’m confused about this take Doc. Every player that takes NIL money this year and stays another year will eventually declare for the draft. All NIL does to the NBA is move more developmental less productive years into the college ranks and make the draft more predictable and contracts more efficient over time. I would expect that the number of players and the quality of them will even out within 2-3 years. It seems like a talent drain now but that’ll only last until a new steady state forms. Players only have so many years of availability in the NCAA


True. We will lose some to injury. Lose some to the revelation that they’re just not good enough for the big leagues. I’m looking at guys like Hunter Dickinson who 3 years ago looked like a prospect but stayed. I think the drain will result in 3-4 years of short drafts. And ultimately I think you’re right, it will be better for the league. Players used to jump too early as soon as there was buzz about them. They couldn’t afford to pass up the money.

I do think there’s a short term PR issue. We will see frustration in front offices when guys they like stick in place and the draft thins for the next few years. Articles about huge talents who decide they can’t afford to leave college since the money is better than the stingy rookie draft scale.

Agents in particular may stir the pot. We heard rumors about Cooper Flagg for instance this year. There will be a first guy who spurns the NBA despite lotto projections. Picture how miserable a tanking team would be when the top of the draft empties out of guys who decide they’d rather stay in school than join a losing franchise. Players who wait til the lotto then decide to return to school if they don’t like what they see. Already the league has a problem with players deciding what team they will and won’t play for. Now the risk is even rookie prospects have that leverage. Meaning actually agents have it. Bronny didn’t need the NBA money so he could say he wouldn’t work out for anyone. Sarrs team snubbed the Hawks. Now any player can do it.

All it takes is one billionaire alumnus for us to see a franchise talent skip the league and spend their rookie contract at college. The first time that happens the media will tear into it and the owners will be embarrassed. That will snowball if it becomes a trend. NCAA vs NBA. with advertising dollars at stake.

Temporarily that means the college game gets better. And more sports dollars, tv, etc flood to the NCAA instead. The college game gets better all around. At least until we see a super team or two dominate NCAA play by hoarding all the top talent. Make a mockery of the system. Makes sense that Duke is starting that era. Everyone hates them already.

As far as on court product. Ultimately i think the result will be more polished game from centers. Tougher front court play. The NBA has been undervaluing Bigs in the 3ball era. Though we are seeing them rise in the playoffs. Center play has been improving in the college ranks. Though few college coaches let them gun from outside. (Except in the year or so before they get drafted, a big will uncork a few just to show scouts they can do it.). It takes longer for low post skills to develop. Easier to learn to shoot the 3 than drop step hook shot banging in the post. etc. Things you can’t practice in a gym by yourself. Guards can always look good if they can dribble and shoot. Jump out the gym. The center game is pass dependent.

Thing is teams oddly don’t reward players who stay in school. The shine comes off. Even though the skill of the players increase. Those players who stay in school get drafted later while teams chase the mystery kid. Which means I think in a few years the PIF trade down focus will be a real strategy for building solid teams. Drafting and scouting are easier. You can see who puts in work to improve. I think the back half of the first round will be a place to steal really good players. Especially seasoned front court players ready to do the dirty work without glamor. Edey. TJD. Johni Broome? JT Toppin?
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#298 » by J-Ves » Sun May 11, 2025 11:54 am

Jay81 wrote:Is Nolan trarore playing himself back into a lottery pick?

I doubt most teams had him out of the lottery by much even at his lowest point. His floor game passes the eye test and his shooting/finishing problems could always be partially hand waved away due to youth.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#299 » by payitforward » Sun May 11, 2025 11:55 am

doclinkin wrote:... I think the drain will result in 3-4 years of short drafts....

Unless my brain is malfunctioning (wouldn't be the first time), I believe the effect can only last one year. After all, the young guys who lay out in year 1 will be in the draft in year 2 -- replacing the young guys who lay out that year.

Now, if guys lay out 2 years, then yeah the effect can last that long. But there will be relatively few of those.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#300 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Sun May 11, 2025 1:02 pm

doclinkin wrote:
gesa2 wrote:I’m confused about this take Doc. Every player that takes NIL money this year and stays another year will eventually declare for the draft. All NIL does to the NBA is move more developmental less productive years into the college ranks and make the draft more predictable and contracts more efficient over time. I would expect that the number of players and the quality of them will even out within 2-3 years. It seems like a talent drain now but that’ll only last until a new steady state forms. Players only have so many years of availability in the NCAA


True. We will lose some to injury. Lose some to the revelation that they’re just not good enough for the big leagues. I’m looking at guys like Hunter Dickinson who 3 years ago looked like a prospect but stayed. I think the drain will result in 3-4 years of short drafts. And ultimately I think you’re right, it will be better for the league. Players used to jump too early as soon as there was buzz about them. They couldn’t afford to pass up the money.

I do think there’s a short term PR issue. We will see frustration in front offices when guys they like stick in place and the draft thins for the next few years. Articles about huge talents who decide they can’t afford to leave college since the money is better than the stingy rookie draft scale.

Agents in particular may stir the pot. We heard rumors about Cooper Flagg for instance this year. There will be a first guy who spurns the NBA despite lotto projections. Picture how miserable a tanking team would be when the top of the draft empties out of guys who decide they’d rather stay in school than join a losing franchise. Players who wait til the lotto then decide to return to school if they don’t like what they see. Already the league has a problem with players deciding what team they will and won’t play for. Now the risk is even rookie prospects have that leverage. Meaning actually agents have it. Bronny didn’t need the NBA money so he could say he wouldn’t work out for anyone. Sarrs team snubbed the Hawks. Now any player can do it.

All it takes is one billionaire alumnus for us to see a franchise talent skip the league and spend their rookie contract at college. The first time that happens the media will tear into it and the owners will be embarrassed. That will snowball if it becomes a trend. NCAA vs NBA. with advertising dollars at stake.

Temporarily that means the college game gets better. And more sports dollars, tv, etc flood to the NCAA instead. The college game gets better all around. At least until we see a super team or two dominate NCAA play by hoarding all the top talent. Make a mockery of the system. Makes sense that Duke is starting that era. Everyone hates them already.

As far as on court product. Ultimately i think the result will be more polished game from centers. Tougher front court play. The NBA has been undervaluing Bigs in the 3ball era. Though we are seeing them rise in the playoffs. Center play has been improving in the college ranks. Though few college coaches let them gun from outside. (Except in the year or so before they get drafted, a big will uncork a few just to show scouts they can do it.). It takes longer for low post skills to develop. Easier to learn to shoot the 3 than drop step hook shot banging in the post. etc. Things you can’t practice in a gym by yourself. Guards can always look good if they can dribble and shoot. Jump out the gym. The center game is pass dependent.

Thing is teams oddly don’t reward players who stay in school. The shine comes off. Even though the skill of the players increase. Those players who stay in school get drafted later while teams chase the mystery kid. Which means I think in a few years the PIF trade down focus will be a real strategy for building solid teams. Drafting and scouting are easier. You can see who puts in work to improve. I think the back half of the first round will be a place to steal really good players. Especially seasoned front court players ready to do the dirty work without glamor. Edey. TJD. Johni Broome? JT Toppin?




Good post Doc! :clap: Should make college ball more fun to watch, which isn't a bad thing. Other than the Wizards, I watch more college than NBA anyway!
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