NBA DRAFT LOTTERY GT, 12 MAY 2025, 6 PM CT, CHICAGO, ESPN

[Dan Z]

The key is more bites at the apple. Asset collection and financial flexibility are a much better plan than outright tanking.

Why can't you do both? At least early on in a rebuild.

It's also possible that if you traded away players (for future assets) then the team might be bad and you won't have to tank to get a top pick.

You can and should do both. Not only when you're bad but also when you're good. It should be an overall organizational philosophy to be churning assets. AK has been pretty bad in that regard. But that's different from outright tanking your season for the next 3-5 years which is what real tanking would need to look like.

I realize I may be in the minority with this opinion but I've just seen too much terrible Bulls basketball to be purposefully looking for more.

Nobody wants the Bulls to tank 5 years in a row, but when the season looks lost, and the team needs more talent, then it's smart to try and get the best draft pick you can.

At one point in the season the Bulls record was close to the Sixers (who finished with the 5th pick). If the Bulls made an effort to tank then why couldn't they end up around that spot?

[Dan Z]

The key is more bites at the apple. Asset collection and financial flexibility are a much better plan than outright tanking.

Why can't you do both? At least early on in a rebuild.

It's also possible that if you traded away players (for future assets) then the team might be bad and you won't have to tank to get a top pick.

Yeah, a classic rebuild involves getting worse while collecting assets and financial flexibility in order to get more bites at the apple. That’s the whole dang point.

I agree. Then once you get a solid group of young players you can then try to add vets and win as much as you can.

[Ebo21]

Rebuilding through tanking is more risky now than it ever has been. Unless you luck up and nab a #1 pick in a clear cut Wemby, Flagg draft you’ll be stuck developing teenage talent in a man’s league.

The problem with most of these young guys outside of lack of NBA strength is sometimes that they lack NBA basketball IQ. The AAU circuits that they’ve risen up through doesn’t make it much better. IMO this is why we see so many more international players becoming more impactful players on the court.

I believe AK’s philosophy has been to let the past lottery talent drafted by other teams run their course on the teams that selected them, and then target them later in their rookie deals or in free agency when the staff has had a better sample size on their true NBA contribution ability.

Effectively we have a pretty legit roster that lacks a true #1 all-star/superstar caliber player. It’s more probable to find a disgruntled star than to tank and draft one. I’m not mad at AK’s philosophy I just hope it actually works.

[Red Larrivee]

Why can't you do both? At least early on in a rebuild.

It's also possible that if you traded away players (for future assets) then the team might be bad and you won't have to tank to get a top pick.

You can and should do both. Not only when you're bad but also when you're good. It should be an overall organizational philosophy to be churning assets. AK has been pretty bad in that regard. But that's different from outright tanking your season for the next 3-5 years which is what real tanking would need to look like.

I realize I may be in the minority with this opinion but I've just seen too much terrible Bulls basketball to be purposefully looking for more.

Nobody wants the Bulls to tank 5 years in a row, but when the season looks lost, and the team needs more talent, then it's smart to try and get the best draft pick you can.

At one point in the season the Bulls record was close to the Sixers (who finished with the 5th pick). If the Bulls made an effort to tank then why couldn't they end up around that spot?

I mean, they did.

They traded LaVine for three players who were having bad seasons and playing very few minutes. Ayo and Ball were out in addition to that. The Bulls to that point were 24th in defensive rating and giving up a league-worst 56.2 points in the paint. Buzelis, Phillips, and Terry were getting more opportunities. The Bulls closed with the 8th youngest roster in the league.

What more would you have done to tank at that point in the season? Vuc was hurting you a lot more than he was helping at that point.

Caruso for draft picks at the beginning of the season would've went a longer way, but the Bulls roster on paper post LaVine trade was pretty bad. Not Washington, Charlotte, Utah or Philadelphia minus their 4 best players bad, but still... pretty bad.

[fleet]

Just give me nothing worse than 12 and I'll be fine. There's a lot of guys I like in this draft. About 12 in fact. Doesn't mean we'll take one I want, but I prefer the math that would have all of "my guys" theoretically in play.

We are all lined up again then.


The franchise contains the Jordan curse umbrella. Under which the apparent Rose curse is in effect. We are always just outside the money on desired players for the draft in these lottery things. To the point where someone upstairs must have a sense of humor and particular enjoyment of torturing Bulls fans exquisitely.

[Jeffster81]

Since 2008 (The Rose draft), the Bulls have drafted inside the top 10 four times. Just saying.

[Dan Z]

You can and should do both. Not only when you're bad but also when you're good. It should be an overall organizational philosophy to be churning assets. AK has been pretty bad in that regard. But that's different from outright tanking your season for the next 3-5 years which is what real tanking would need to look like.

I realize I may be in the minority with this opinion but I've just seen too much terrible Bulls basketball to be purposefully looking for more.

Nobody wants the Bulls to tank 5 years in a row, but when the season looks lost, and the team needs more talent, then it's smart to try and get the best draft pick you can.

At one point in the season the Bulls record was close to the Sixers (who finished with the 5th pick). If the Bulls made an effort to tank then why couldn't they end up around that spot?

I mean, they did.

They traded LaVine for three players who were having bad seasons and playing very few minutes. Ayo and Ball were out in addition to that. The Bulls to that point were 24th in defensive rating and giving up a league-worst 56.2 points in the paint. Buzelis, Phillips, and Terry were getting more opportunities. The Bulls closed with the 8th youngest roster in the league.

What more would you have done to tank at that point in the season? Vuc was hurting you a lot more than he was helping at that point.

Caruso for draft picks at the beginning of the season would've went a longer way, but the Bulls roster on paper post LaVine trade was pretty bad. Not Washington, Charlotte, Utah or Philadelphia minus their 4 best players bad, but still... pretty bad.

The Bulls traded for veterans who were fighting for their NBA careers. It's no surprise that they were productive once they got here.

Teams tank all the time. A few years ago the Mavs realized that their season was going nowhere, so they tanked to keep their pick (which I think was top 10 protected? Maybe 12? I can't reemember). They ended up with the 10th pick and traded it for 12. The result was money savings and Dercek Lively.

That's a team tanking with Luka on the roster.

This year one goal the Utah Jazz had was to get a top pick in the 2025 draft. Throughout the season they rested their top players and the NBA even fined them for it. We'll see how the lottery plays out, but right now they have the #1 pick.

How many wins do you think the Jazz get if they tried to win every game? They have players who are good: Lauri Makkanen, Walker Kessler, John Collins, Collin Sexton and Jordan Clarkson. Of course, they also have young players too and that's because their plan is a long term goal instead of a short one.

[Bulldog23]

I used to spend a lot of time on draft coverage for the Bulls. Now I don’t care. I just this think this management group is bad and will continue with bad decisions.

[DuckIII]

Just give me nothing worse than 12 and I'll be fine. There's a lot of guys I like in this draft. About 12 in fact. Doesn't mean we'll take one I want, but I prefer the math that would have all of "my guys" theoretically in play.

We are all lined up again then.


The franchise contains the Jordan curse umbrella. Under which the apparent Rose curse is in effect. We are always just outside the money on desired players for the draft in these lottery things. To the point where someone upstairs must have a sense of humor and particular enjoyment of torturing Bulls fans exquisitely.

Except last year. So maybe the curse is broken?

[DuckIII]

You can and should do both. Not only when you're bad but also when you're good. It should be an overall organizational philosophy to be churning assets. AK has been pretty bad in that regard. But that's different from outright tanking your season for the next 3-5 years which is what real tanking would need to look like.

I realize I may be in the minority with this opinion but I've just seen too much terrible Bulls basketball to be purposefully looking for more.

Nobody wants the Bulls to tank 5 years in a row, but when the season looks lost, and the team needs more talent, then it's smart to try and get the best draft pick you can.

At one point in the season the Bulls record was close to the Sixers (who finished with the 5th pick). If the Bulls made an effort to tank then why couldn't they end up around that spot?

I mean, they did.

They traded LaVine for three players who were having bad seasons and playing very few minutes. Ayo and Ball were out in addition to that. The Bulls to that point were 24th in defensive rating and giving up a league-worst 56.2 points in the paint. Buzelis, Phillips, and Terry were getting more opportunities. The Bulls closed with the 8th youngest roster in the league.

What more would you have done to tank at that point in the season? Vuc was hurting you a lot more than he was helping at that point.

Caruso for draft picks at the beginning of the season would've went a longer way, but the Bulls roster on paper post LaVine trade was pretty bad. Not Washington, Charlotte, Utah or Philadelphia minus their 4 best players bad, but still... pretty bad.

Trading Lavine at the February deadline for plug and play vets to use while winding down the last 30 games of the season is not “tanking.”

[Red Larrivee]

The Bulls traded for veterans who were fighting for their NBA careers. It's no surprise that they were productive once they got here.

Teams tank all the time. A few years ago the Mavs realized that their season was going nowhere, so they tanked to keep their pick (which I think was top 10 protected? Maybe 12? I can't reemember). They ended up with the 10th pick and traded it for 12. The result was money savings and Dercek Lively.

That's a team tanking with Luka on the roster.

This year one goal the Utah Jazz had was to get a top pick in the 2025 draft. Throughout the season they rested their top players and the NBA even fined them for it. We'll see how the lottery plays out, but right now they have the #1 pick.

How many wins do you think the Jazz get if they tried to win every game? They have players who are good: Lauri Makkanen, Walker Kessler, John Collins, Collin Sexton and Jordan Clarkson. Of course, they also have young players too and that's because their plan is a long term goal instead of a short one.

If Utah tried to win every game, they would still suck. They're in the West and the core of players you named are uninspiring. They legitimately stink even if they pushed the envelope to be even worse.

It doesn't matter what Jones, Collins and Huerter are "fighting" for. At their best, they're unlikely difference makers on a team that just sold off their 3 best players and already had season ending injuries to other rotation players on top of having one of the worst defenses in basketball.

- We were 21-29 at one point.
- We had lost 9 of our last 12 in that same stretch before the LaVine trade.
- Trading LaVine should've been the final piece to bottom the Bulls out. There wasn't another necessary move to do that.
- We proceeded to lose 6 of the next 7 games after the trade, putting us at 4-15 in a 19 game stretch. It was working.
- We reached 22-35, out lowest point of the season. We were on a 31-51 pace very comfortably.

Nobody called this team going 17-8 after that regardless of scheduling. We were betting underdogs in the majority of games. There's nothing wrong with being disappointed that we didn't continue sliding, but acting like the Bulls didn't do enough to tank at that moment in the season couldn't be more off. There wasn't another move to make to prevent what happened short of starting the Windy City Bulls every game and that's simply unrealistic.

[Am2626]

https://www.tankathon.com/past_drafts

Take a look at this list. Specifically the top three picks. Go back as far as you want. Basically, you have a one in three chance INSIDE THE TOP 3 of landing a franchise player. Those are... not great odds. Certainly not odds that make me want to be a terrible franchise on purpose. The odds of tanking your way to being a contender are even smaller.

By and large, being terrible on purpose likely just leads to you being terrible for longer.

Would it be better to try and win every game only to end up with a 39 win season and losing the play-in game? How many years in a row should the Bulls do that?

I believe it would be. I'd much rather be in the Bulls position than the Wizards or Hornets, for example. You could easily tank for 5 years and have worse talent than what we have right now.

Losing begets losing. It permeates a franchise from the management down to the players. There are outliers, of course, but that's uncommon. Hence why they are the outliers.

The Bulls are a losing organization with no path to a championship contender. I’d say that’s the worst place to be. If they didn’t try to win meaningless end of season games they would have had a shot at Cooper Flagg while still having the same group of players and be much better off than where they are at. Look at teams like the Spurs who have a better core and still have a better draft position.

[prolific passer]

Akme gonna draft Mr. Irrelevant with their first round pick.

[DuckIII]

Akme gonna draft Mr. Irrelevant with their first round pick.

Their draft record is weird. It’s either big hits or big misses. Buz and Ayo are huge hits relative to their draft positions. And Buz looks like a big hit regardless of draft position.

Then you have Pat, who this season went from frustrating to being very close to a complete bust, and Terry who was just a mind numbingly awful pick the moment it was announced and still is.

And Simonovic is whatever. 44th picks aren’t supposed to work out.

[prolific passer]

Akme gonna draft Mr. Irrelevant with their first round pick.

Their draft record is weird. It’s either big hits or big misses. Buz and Ayo are huge hits relative to their draft positions. And Buz looks like a big hit regardless of draft position.

Then you have Pat, who this season went from frustrating to being very close to a complete bust, and Terry who was just a mind numbingly awful pick the moment it was announced and still is.

And Simonovic is whatever. 44th picks aren’t supposed to work out.

Akme probably thinks he'll find another Jokic type in one of his picks

[WindyCityBorn]

Not getting my hopes up. Things rarely go well for us in the draft lottery. We used all of our luck with Rose. While Spurs just get handed #1 picks all the time.

[Dan Z]

The Bulls traded for veterans who were fighting for their NBA careers. It's no surprise that they were productive once they got here.

Teams tank all the time. A few years ago the Mavs realized that their season was going nowhere, so they tanked to keep their pick (which I think was top 10 protected? Maybe 12? I can't reemember). They ended up with the 10th pick and traded it for 12. The result was money savings and Dercek Lively.

That's a team tanking with Luka on the roster.

This year one goal the Utah Jazz had was to get a top pick in the 2025 draft. Throughout the season they rested their top players and the NBA even fined them for it. We'll see how the lottery plays out, but right now they have the #1 pick.

How many wins do you think the Jazz get if they tried to win every game? They have players who are good: Lauri Makkanen, Walker Kessler, John Collins, Collin Sexton and Jordan Clarkson. Of course, they also have young players too and that's because their plan is a long term goal instead of a short one.

If Utah tried to win every game, they would still suck. They're in the West and the core of players you named are uninspiring. They legitimately stink even if they pushed the envelope to be even worse.

It doesn't matter what Jones, Collins and Huerter are "fighting" for. At their best, they're unlikely difference makers on a team that just sold off their 3 best players and already had season ending injuries to other rotation players on top of having one of the worst defenses in basketball.

- We were 21-29 at one point.
- We had lost 9 of our last 12 in that same stretch before the LaVine trade.
- Trading LaVine should've been the final piece to bottom the Bulls out. There wasn't another necessary move to do that.
- We proceeded to lose 6 of the next 7 games after the trade, putting us at 4-15 in a 19 game stretch. It was working.
- We reached 22-35, out lowest point of the season. We were on a 31-51 pace very comfortably.

Nobody called this team going 17-8 after that regardless of scheduling. We were betting underdogs in the majority of games. There's nothing wrong with being disappointed that we didn't continue sliding, but acting like the Bulls didn't do enough to tank at that moment in the season couldn't be more off. There wasn't another move to make to prevent what happened short of starting the Windy City Bulls every game and that's simply unrealistic.

I've already explained it. Teams have tanked with better rosters (my Mavs example) and tanked with bad rosters too (my Jazz example). The Bulls this year are closer to the Jazz in terms of roster and could've done the same things they did.

[prolific passer]

Not getting my hopes up. Things rarely go well for us in the draft lottery. We used all of our luck with Rose. While Spurs just get handed #1 picks all the time.

Orlando Magic had back to back #1 picks in 92 and 93 and another one in 2004.

Also in 2022.

[prolific passer]

Bulls haven't had a draft direction since Paxsons run from 03-08. It's been so up and down since.

[fleet]

Just give me nothing worse than 12 and I'll be fine. There's a lot of guys I like in this draft. About 12 in fact. Doesn't mean we'll take one I want, but I prefer the math that would have all of "my guys" theoretically in play.

We are all lined up again then.


The franchise contains the Jordan curse umbrella. Under which the apparent Rose curse is in effect. We are always just outside the money on desired players for the draft in these lottery things. To the point where someone upstairs must have a sense of humor and particular enjoyment of torturing Bulls fans exquisitely.

Except last year. So maybe the curse is broken?

Honestly I can’t say I followed the pre draft hype. I’m a little checked out on the Bulls lately. Reinsdorf has worn me out completely. Which is the same story on my White Sox attention span. Was Matas on the pre draft hype list of guys?