2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West Semifinals: #1 Oklahoma City Thunder vs #4 Denver Nuggets (DEN leads 2-1)

[JustBuzzin]

You are supposed to look at it over the a large sample size. He has less help than other superstars. This is just true.

That's just false!

He won a championship with this same core lmao

Stop making excuses for the best player in the world.

Why did they lose last year then if his "core" was so great? You must have forgot when Murray and Jokic were scoring like 80% of the Nuggets points in that Minnesota series.

Wait you expect his team to win the championship every year?

So in other words if your team doesn't win a championship your supporting cast isn't good enough. Man stop with all these excuses.

[Godymas]

I stg, the Jokic no All Star teammate nonsense has to end. It's not like Tony Parker/Manu Ginobili were some insane All Star headlining studs (yes they have 8 selections, Murray is almost never healthy to start the year). Jamal Murray vs. Tony Parker, it's not that big of a gap guys. Aaron Gordon doesn't have some All Star flashy game, he's not going to make the All Star team unless the Nuggets drastically change their offense, he's more valuable than a lot of "All Stars"

[Special_Puppy]

#15 on the Nuggets

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[Capn'O]

Jokic’s been worse than SGA in the series, though.

18 assists to 21 turnovers for Jokic on bad defense

24 assists to 4 turnovers for SGA on good defense.

Jokic’s cast stepping up has been the difference for them

Not to be rude but if you think Jokic has been bad defensively this series you don’t know basketball

No you

Honestly, I was really impressed with Jokic's defense. Still not a rim protector but he was instrumental in the SGA wall and generally guarding the midrange. That and some Chet bullying.

[Capn'O]

sure the players have a lot to blame for their struggles down the line, but mymain issue with okc is that mark d is not using his best performing players

cason and caruso have both outplayed dort by a sensible margin. dort has been smoked by jamal murray all series long (and he usually has problems vs quicker and nimble guards that get skinny).

obviously hartenstein is having a decent series in many aspects (even though he choked yesterday) but having a non shooter above jaylin williams who has looked fine bugs me too.

at the beginning of the series i thought the problem of being deep is that coach has too many ways to **** it up and it's happening.

yesterday we were terrible at shooting from anywhere. why not betting on a more suffocating perimeter defense that has brought the games to us so often in this series

i don't understand...

He hasn't figured out that his regular season tricks don't work in the playoffs. His inexperience is showing the most, especially in tight quarters.

His seat is still quite cold but he needs to learn quickly.

[Boardbreaker]

I’m not a Nuggets fan and have zero connection to Serbia or Colorado yet I think it’s funny how a guy like Jokic gets so many haters.

In my time watching basketball, him and Steph Curry are the two out of all the “elite/legendary players” who play basketball the right way, aren’t overly obnoxious and are genuinely likable players.

Are Nuggets fans super intolerable or something? Is that why people are waiting to see Jokic fail?

I’ve noticed it’s usually fans of the below that have an issue with Jokic:

Lebron/Lakers
Sixers/Embiid
Bucks/Giannis
Thunder/Shai

[Dadouv47]

sure the players have a lot to blame for their struggles down the line, but mymain issue with okc is that mark d is not using his best performing players

cason and caruso have both outplayed dort by a sensible margin. dort has been smoked by jamal murray all series long (and he usually has problems vs quicker and nimble guards that get skinny).

obviously hartenstein is having a decent series in many aspects (even though he choked yesterday) but having a non shooter above jaylin williams who has looked fine bugs me too.

at the beginning of the series i thought the problem of being deep is that coach has too many ways to **** it up and it's happening.

yesterday we were terrible at shooting from anywhere. why not betting on a more suffocating perimeter defense that has brought the games to us so often in this series

i don't understand...

agree about Dort because it's not the first game he's struggling a lot. I'm not sure I trust Cason that much lately though (20 minutes/game looks fine to me). Coach D saw that Isaiah Joe was a liability but he should have played Wiggins a lot more. He's the only player not named Shai or JDub that is able to create his own shot and he's a decent passer. Overall it's the lack of passing game that cost us the game so you gotta play Caruso/Wiggins more and Dort and his low BBIQ a lot less. We have a good enough defense to afford letting Dort on the bench despite what our coaching staff think.

Not sure about the Hartenstein stuff...he's supposed to make those easy floaters. Can't blame our coach for Hartenstein choking like this

[Pattycakes]

Had to check someone yesterday who was pushing heavy “we’re not just looking at one championship” vibes. Yo, message to Thunder and Cavs - DO SOMETHING OUTSIDE OF THE REGULAR SZN, then talk

[kazyv]

I stg, the Jokic no All Star teammate nonsense has to end. It's not like Tony Parker/Manu Ginobili were some insane All Star headlining studs (yes they have 8 selections, Murray is almost never healthy to start the year). Jamal Murray vs. Tony Parker, it's not that big of a gap guys. Aaron Gordon doesn't have some All Star flashy game, he's not going to make the All Star team unless the Nuggets drastically change their offense, he's more valuable than a lot of "All Stars"

I don't dislike the comparison, especially since Jokic compares so well to Duncan in terms of demeanour and empowering others to shine. But the main problem is that the league just got a lot better in the last 15 years. I'm sure this 6man deep Denver team would do very well if transplanted back to 2007. But unfortunately we are in the year 2025. And a lot of the teams Denver has to compete against are so much deeper.

[Capn'O]

A couple of great teams have taken on the Heat strategy of playing possum in the regular season nowadays. Denver is one.

[NO-KG-AI]

They help, just not as much as the supporting casts of all the other top stars left lol.

[Infinite Llamas]

What's so suprising? They bailed him out when he won the chip too.

What are you even talking about? He had a historic individual playoff run.

Some Giannis fans feel threatened by Jokic is what it’s all about

[kingr]

Just watched Shae's post game. I really really liked how he handled that. Blamed himself, knew he made decisions that cost them the game. I love that. No sugar coating, no passing off blame to anyone else.

[sp6r=underrated]

Jokic has played terrible the last few games and the Nuggets supporting cast has played well. If this was a constant then Jokic would be overrated and his supporting cast underrated but it isn't. The strong norm is the reverse.

[ChuckChilly]

That's just false!

He won a championship with this same core lmao

Stop making excuses for the best player in the world.

Why did they lose last year then if his "core" was so great? You must have forgot when Murray and Jokic were scoring like 80% of the Nuggets points in that Minnesota series.

Wait you expect his team to win the championship every year?

So in other words if your team doesn't win a championship your supporting cast isn't good enough. Man stop with all these excuses.

Uhhh no. You're basically saying that Jokic has help, using the one time he won a championship. But are conveniently ignoring all of the other years he didn't win, when a lot of times of his teammates were either injured or didn't play well in the playoffs. He's been in the league 10 years you know.

[Duke4life831]

Yes this isn’t the same roster filled with scrubs like in 2021 and 2022. I don’t think that is the argument people make.

Aaron Gordon is an elite glue guy (you can make the argument he’s as good as it gets, when you factor in fit). MPJ when he hits his shots, can give you 20/10 on any random night. And when Murray is on, the dude can win you a game.

The issue is, outside of Gordon you have no clue what you’re going to get night to night with these guys. For example MPJ, 3 out of his last 5 games he’s failed to score in double digits. Murray can drop you 40 one night, and score in the teens or be inefficient for the next 2-3 games while bringing nothing else.

The other thing is, unlike all the other stars on contending team. Jokic doesn’t get to take his foot off the gas at anytime during the season. Which is a huge deal.

Again, yes he’s not playing with scrubs. But yes, he also doesn’t have the normal kind of help that most contending teams have.

Same for the Dirk in 2011 run. It’s viewed as this legendary run for Dirk because of how outnumbered he was vs all these other stars he went against. That team wasn’t filled with scrubs, that was a very well constructed team and they filled it out with great vet role pieces. Kidd was super solid, JET was 6MOY and in contention for many years, Marion was older but still super solid Jack of all trades, Chandler was as good of a defensive big in the league at the time not named Howard.

To me that is the comp. The issue is, you can basically count on 1 hand the amount of teams that have won a championship with this kind of roster construction in the last 30 years. The high level talent gap tends to show the difference in a 7 game series. Having that 2nd All NBA talent to go with the #1, or having 2-3 legit high level All Stars to go with the #1 has shown to be the more proven way of winning.

That’s what people mean when they say Jokic lacks help. 2021 and 2022 he had legit scrub rosters. He has good rosters since, but yes, he’s lacked the true star talent to surround him that we have seen for the vast majority of championship teams. Thats not really all that debatable at this point.

[JustBuzzin]

Why did they lose last year then if his "core" was so great? You must have forgot when Murray and Jokic were scoring like 80% of the Nuggets points in that Minnesota series.

Wait you expect his team to win the championship every year?

So in other words if your team doesn't win a championship your supporting cast isn't good enough. Man stop with all these excuses.

Uhhh no. You're basically saying that Jokic has help, using the one time he won a championship. But are conveniently ignoring all of the other years he didn't win, when a lot of times of his teammates were either injured or didn't play well in the playoffs. He's been in the league 10 years you know.

OKC has had one of the best rosters in basketball and still haven't won a championship.

LeBron and Luka were teammates they won no championship.

Harden/Kawhi can't win a championship.

Giannis/Dame didn't win a championship.

Boston has the best roster in the NBA and they about to get bounced in the 2nd round!

Sir you don't seem to understand winning a championship is hard. Just because Jokic doesn't win a championship every year doesn't mean his supporting cast sucks. Cmon man wake up!

[ChuckChilly]

Wait you expect his team to win the championship every year?

So in other words if your team doesn't win a championship your supporting cast isn't good enough. Man stop with all these excuses.

Uhhh no. You're basically saying that Jokic has help, using the one time he won a championship. But are conveniently ignoring all of the other years he didn't win, when a lot of times of his teammates were either injured or didn't play well in the playoffs. He's been in the league 10 years you know.

OKC has had one of the best rosters in basketball and still haven't won a championship.

LeBron and Luka were teammates they won no championship.

Harden/Kawhi can't win a championship.

Giannis/Dame didn't win a championship.

Boston has the best roster in the NBA and they about to get bounced in the 2nd round!

Sir you don't seem to understand winning a championship is hard. Just because Jokic doesn't win a championship every year doesn't mean his supporting cast sucks. Cmon man wake up!

Jokic has made the playoffs 9 years. All you have to do is look the games up and look at the rosters. Something you won't do because it will debunk your argument.

And also the problem isn't that he doesn't have help, it's that the help usually doesn't come when it's needed. The year the Nuggets won was a clear example of what happens when his teammates show up. If Aaron Gordon played like how he's playing in the playoffs now most series and MPJ played like how much he gets paid, they would have 3 championships by now.

[JustBuzzin]

Uhhh no. You're basically saying that Jokic has help, using the one time he won a championship. But are conveniently ignoring all of the other years he didn't win, when a lot of times of his teammates were either injured or didn't play well in the playoffs. He's been in the league 10 years you know.

OKC has had one of the best rosters in basketball and still haven't won a championship.

LeBron and Luka were teammates they won no championship.

Harden/Kawhi can't win a championship.

Giannis/Dame didn't win a championship.

Boston has the best roster in the NBA and they about to get bounced in the 2nd round!

Sir you don't seem to understand winning a championship is hard. Just because Jokic doesn't win a championship every year doesn't mean his supporting cast sucks. Cmon man wake up!

Jokic has made the playoffs 9 years. All you have to do is look the games up and look at the rosters. Something you won't do because it will debunk your argument.

You're making excuses for a guy who has already won a championship.

Brother Jokic is not going to win a championship every season. Get that idea out of your head. LeBron was the best player for almost 2 decades he only won a championship 4 times out of 20+ years.

It's hard winning in this league no matter the talent.

KD has had talent around him from most of his career and only has 2 championships to show for it.

Stop feeling sorry for Jokic.

[nbafan38]

The swings on the narrative of this series have been wild

after game 1: thunder choke can't recover
after game 2: thunder best team ever no one can compete with them
after game 3: thunder are done cant beat nuggets in a close game.