The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1

[Saberestar]

Other than the fact the Heats roster is trash. I’m not trading with them when they refused to do a deal for Butler and chose a trash package and made the Warriors better.
Let Riley’s death be a slow and painful one.

This is a good point too! We just have no incentive whatsoever to deal with them if Ware AND picks ( 2-3) aren't included coming back. Rozier and Robinson being the equivalent of 48 million is solid cap flexibility for us, HOWEVER, KD absolutely isn't a salary dump scenario under any conditions.

Also Miami's picks ( currently) are garbage! And they really don't have even decent value to offer us for KD in a player's package unless it's something loaded around Ware/ Jovic/ Mitchell/ Jacquez/ 2- 3 1sts. With one of those 1sts being their unprotected 26' 1st.

If they can't meet our value thresholds, then No KD! and enjoy mediocrity and a painful rebuild too! And I'm honestly not even sure I'd highly value that package cumulative either.

If they called is asked for Bam, Ware and 3 unprotected 1sts just so Riley would stop calling

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It seems that KD isn't interested in Miami. Good, they aren't good trade partners for the Suns because they lack assets.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

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[BurningHeart]

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God that's horrendous if so.

[Saberestar]

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God that's horrendous if so.

Draft selections are always a consensus stuff.

Obviously scouts are gonna be involved in any pick selection and had their input on prospects but none of them can take all the blame or recognition for drafting them.

The Suns never said that Gregory was the only guy wanting Dunn and Oso, but they gave him props because he was high on them and he was right about it.

New GM so new personal in offices. That's how it works.

[Ghost of Kleine]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/2025-nba-draft-workout-tracker-where-are-prospects-working-out/

So far, HoopsHype only has Phoenix working out RJ Felton and Jonathan Pierre for now. So a strong tenacious 6'3 - 6'4 shooting guard with explosive athleticism and polished scoring. I wouldn't mind Felton as he's got a really thick strong frame and impressive vertical burst. He's definitely a power guard and very tenacious too. Reminds me a bit of Marcus Smart ( build and defensive mentality), but also Robert Pack who used to play for the Nuggets back in 94.

But we do need to be very judicious with our limited picks in this draft, and we have greater needs that our two picks should be applied for ( center, power forward and/ or Jumbo defensive wing/ forward).

Now if we add a couple more picks ir could still very likely get these two prospects from the undrafted ranges, then that's solid value for sure and sign me up! But I'm not inclined to use our 29th pick or 52nd on either if our bigger targets are available in our range.

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And then a wiry 6'9 multi positional wing, with decent but not great athleticism, and a solid but not great defender in the passing lanes. JP is very solid playmaking and ballhandling wing though, and he can also make some tough shots.

But has been known to be averse to physicality and contact in the paint. Think of a wiry/ skinny Kyle Andersen maybe but with a bit more scoring polish and less tenacity.

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Both prospects aren't terrible. Especially if coming from the undrafted ranges on a two way deal. But I absolutely wouldn't burn a 1st or 2nd rounder on either prospect, as there just are numerous much better talents in both our ranges that should be prioritized!

Still good to see the suns putting in the time though and identifying intruiging players!

Ultimately, the hope would be for these two intruiging prospects to develop into a Marcus Smart ( Felton) and an (Al Fariq Aminu/ Kyle Andersen hybrid). But there will also be more impactful high end talents that should be higher on our boards hopefully.

[Frank Lee]

That is the pressing question. Who is going to be our PG next yr? Id rate it as a high priority. We have been struggling with that position since the falloff of CP3. Is this a position to fill with the draft? Ghost? anyone? I hesitate to mention, but DLo will be looking for a job. Don't really want a runback of HoHum TJones. I expect them to ink up Gillespie. This could also pave the entrance Of FredVV with a KD trade. Houston looks to be moving on from him. If that's the case, Id expect the Rockets to retain our '25 pick and take a PG like Traore... man he would be fun here as we need to turn this sedan into a sports car.


Used to be a strength ... not sure any team can match the PG history of PHNX. It was always a focus during former Illini PG JerryC's days, I thought may be that type of experience would be beneficial with Wishbia....but alas....

Goodrich
Buse
Westphal
DJ
Macy
Kidd
Marbury
Hornacek
KJ
Nash
Dragic
Rubio
Paul
............. missing anyone? That's a pretty impressive list.

[Rebound Mound]

I would love a better part of that package. Ware/Jovic/Jacquez+2026 first, and I m done. Then again, i would accept a bag of chips just to get this utterly unintrested, uninspired diva snake off the team. Does more harm than good for sure, no matter how good he is at putting a ball in a hole.

Kind of how I feel about Durant. No doubt the dude can fall out of bed and put 25ppg on the stat sheet - but its winning. I think Booker, if Ishbia/Gregory can figure out how to build a team around him similar to the one they blew up. Meaning Booker has a real PG next to him for instance and not another duplicative player like Beal - might have a chance to at least be entertaining to watch

I think the Durant problem herein is understandable because Suns fans have been most influenced by the games with this team. For example, Booker, as good as he is, has only had a winning percentage 48.3% (per Statmuse). Durant, with this team has been 58.7% and 53.2%. His first two seasons with Seattle/OKC were 23.8 and 24.3%. In spite of those four years, his career winning percentage is a quite good 62.2%. As you pointed out, other than his 20 PPG rookie season he has been over 25PPG. I think he has been leading scorer on all his teams, but I'm not sure. Magic Johnson is the all time leader at 74%. It should be clear that winning is most influenced by the caliber of the team.

KD has had six years over 70% and one year with GS at 83.2%. He was even 66% with Brooklyn. I believe he and Book have been victims of the Suns, and not the culprits of its poor (recent in KD's case and also prior in Books) performances.

Well, the quality of your teammates and your ability to make them better players. We are talking about two very different cases here. Almost opposite, as while Magic made everybody around better, as a player and as a happy human being, KD does not make anybody around better in any way. But if we focus on basketball reasons, KD is not the reason for a team to get better. He could be that final piece, as it is being explained in any and every comment and opinion in this trade market: he can be the final piece for a team that underachieved...

[Saberestar]

That is the pressing question. Who is going to be our PG next yr? Id rate it as a high priority. We have been struggling with that position since the falloff of CP3. Is this a position to fill with the draft? Ghost? anyone? I hesitate to mention, but DLo will be looking for a job. Don't really want a runback of HoHum TJones. I expect them to ink up Gillespie. This could also pave the entrance Of FredVV with a KD trade. Houston looks to be moving on from him. If that's the case, Id expect the Rockets to retain our '25 pick and take a PG like Traore... man he would be fun here as we need to turn this sedan into a sports car.


Used to be a strength ... not sure any team can match the PG history of PHNX. It was always a focus during former Illini PG JerryC's days, I thought may be that type of experience would be beneficial with Wishbia....but alas....

Goodrich
Buse
Westphal
DJ
Macy
Kidd
Marbury
Hornacek
KJ
Nash
Dragic
Rubio
Paul
............. missing anyone? That's a pretty impressive list.

[BobbieL]

That is the pressing question. Who is going to be our PG next yr? Id rate it as a high priority. We have been struggling with that position since the falloff of CP3. Is this a position to fill with the draft? Ghost? anyone? I hesitate to mention, but DLo will be looking for a job. Don't really want a runback of HoHum TJones. I expect them to ink up Gillespie. This could also pave the entrance Of FredVV with a KD trade. Houston looks to be moving on from him. If that's the case, Id expect the Rockets to retain our '25 pick and take a PG like Traore... man he would be fun here as we need to turn this sedan into a sports car.


Used to be a strength ... not sure any team can match the PG history of PHNX. It was always a focus during former Illini PG JerryC's days, I thought may be that type of experience would be beneficial with Wishbia....but alas....

Goodrich
Buse
Westphal
DJ
Macy
Kidd
Marbury
Hornacek
KJ
Nash
Dragic
Rubio
Paul
............. missing anyone? That's a pretty impressive list.

FVV, Jabari Smith and a FRP could be a framework of a deal
Suns are going to need to take like $50+m of salary so Smith and FVV accomplishes that
Suns get a FRP and a young player in Smith; FVV would be a solid PG next to Booker - which the team needs.

[Slim Charless]

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So that's coming from a Miami source, who knows if accurate, if it is then gives us an idea of where things will stand in the summer. They can very easily sub in Rozier and Duncan for the money in the Jimmy spot. I would rather them sub out Ware for either Jovic or Jaquez. If we can get him and a pick or 2, it's not a terrible deal.

Also and I know I'm in the minority here, but IF Philly wants to pay us to take PG13 in the form of a later down the line picks or even McCain, then I take the offer.

McCain (or a PG we draft maybe Egor Demin??)
Booker
Dunn
PG13
Ware

Rozier/Greyson/Duncan/Oso/Richards

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[ChuckS]

Kind of how I feel about Durant. No doubt the dude can fall out of bed and put 25ppg on the stat sheet - but its winning. I think Booker, if Ishbia/Gregory can figure out how to build a team around him similar to the one they blew up. Meaning Booker has a real PG next to him for instance and not another duplicative player like Beal - might have a chance to at least be entertaining to watch

I think the Durant problem herein is understandable because Suns fans have been most influenced by the games with this team. For example, Booker, as good as he is, has only had a winning percentage 48.3% (per Statmuse). Durant, with this team has been 58.7% and 53.2%. His first two seasons with Seattle/OKC were 23.8 and 24.3%. In spite of those four years, his career winning percentage is a quite good 62.2%. As you pointed out, other than his 20 PPG rookie season he has been over 25PPG. I think he has been leading scorer on all his teams, but I'm not sure. Magic Johnson is the all time leader at 74%. It should be clear that winning is most influenced by the caliber of the team.

KD has had six years over 70% and one year with GS at 83.2%. He was even 66% with Brooklyn. I believe he and Book have been victims of the Suns, and not the culprits of its poor (recent in KD's case and also prior in Books) performances.

Well, the quality of your teammates and your ability to make them better players. We are talking about two very different cases here. Almost opposite, as while Magic made everybody around better, as a player and as a happy human being, KD does not make anybody around better in any way. But if we focus on basketball reasons, KD is not the reason for a team to get better. He could be that final piece, as it is being explained in any and every comment and opinion in this trade market: he can be the final piece for a team that underachieved...

I think no one who knows the game will deny that it is the job of the point guard to orchestrate and optimize the offense in a manner that helps even lesser players. And a great point guard does it great. It's simplistic though, I think, to believe that that is the only thing that makes a team or player better. One who does not predominantly control the ball does it in other ways. It amazes me that anyone who follows a team that won 10% of its games without him and 53% when he played could believe KD is as limited as you imply. Maybe, because of his ability, he really could do that on his own, but even I have doubts about that. I think he helps in those other ways. A biased fan can minimize his dangerous scoring ability, but I'm sure no one in the NBA does. Because of that he draws so much defensive attention that the more mediocre are abandoned to score in their own limited way. In crunch time those incapable are under less pressure to have to do more. If he can't do it, he finds the few others on a bad team who can. He is also the leading source of wise counsel on any team. And he obviously helps the young guys, as he demonstrated by taking a promising rookie on a summer tour for practice against established players, giving him a "leg up" for his rookie season.

As far as being a happy human being, I think your hero, the original (fat) round mound (of sound) who recently claimed Durant was never happy, is oftentimes full of crap. Every coach and player he has played with emphasizes the sheer joy Kevin finds in the game. I think Charles just notices KD's responses when he replies to something stupid like that "unhappiness" or the "bus driver" thing. And of course there are the "never were", or even basketball footnotes, who complain he is mentally weak for not just accepting it when they spew stupid disdain and he publicly tells them they are basketball ignorant. To me that seems the epitome of hypocrisy.

So while I respect everyone's right to an opinion, I'll trust Popovich and Kerr, when they speak to KD's ability to make a team better.

Oh, just one final note. I think KD agrees with you and me about the importance of a good point guard. He went to the Nets with Kyrie, and wanted the Suns when they had CP3 and a good team. I think he will be more selective this year, if a trade comes to pass, to make sure he doesn't wind up like he is now on a poorly structured team.

[Ghost of Kleine]

That is the pressing question. Who is going to be our PG next yr? Id rate it as a high priority. We have been struggling with that position since the falloff of CP3. Is this a position to fill with the draft? Ghost? anyone? I hesitate to mention, but DLo will be looking for a job. Don't really want a runback of HoHum TJones. I expect them to ink up Gillespie. This could also pave the entrance Of FredVV with a KD trade. Houston looks to be moving on from him. If that's the case, Id expect the Rockets to retain our '25 pick and take a PG like Traore... man he would be fun here as we need to turn this sedan into a sports car.


Used to be a strength ... not sure any team can match the PG history of PHNX. It was always a focus during former Illini PG JerryC's days, I thought may be that type of experience would be beneficial with Wishbia....but alas....

Goodrich
Buse
Westphal
DJ
Macy
Kidd
Marbury
Hornacek
KJ
Nash
Dragic
Rubio
Paul
............. missing anyone? That's a pretty impressive list.

There are actually a number of good to really solid quality point guard options in our range of the draft at 29, and then even up to the undrafted ranges. Names like:

- Boogie Fland. Emmanuel Quickly.
- Lebaron Philon. Dennis Schroder/ Cole Anthony.
- Neoklis Avadalas. Luka Doncic 2.0/ 6'8 Milos Teosodic.
- Milos uzan. Chris Duhon/ Delon Wright.
- Tyrese Proctor. Mike Conley.
- Xavian Lee. Jeremy Lin/ Steve Nash.
- Mark Sears. Jalen Brunson/ Jameer Nelson.
- Garway Dual. Dejounte Murray/ AJ Johnson.
- Mike Sharavjamts. 6'8 Jeremy Lin/ Sean Livingston.
- RJ Felton. Marcus Smart/ muscular Robert Pack. (** Recent Phoenix suns prospect workout for this 25' draft).


But even then, I fully expect us to target any of the free agent point guards like:
Malcolm Brogdon, DeAngelo Russell, Chris Paul, Dennis Schroder, Gary Payton 2nd, Delon Wright, Tre Jones, Kyle Lowry, Cam Payne, Dante Exum, Monte Morris, Delano Banton, etc.

And that's if we don't end up pulling one in a KD, Allen or O'neale trade??

[Qwigglez]

I would not deal with Miami under any circumstance for Kevin Durant. They gave up their best bargaining chip in Jimmy. If they want to negotiate for Beal, then I'm all ears.

[BobbieL]

I would not deal with Miami under any circumstance for Kevin Durant. They gave up their best bargaining chip in Jimmy. If they want to negotiate for Beal, then I'm all ears.

I would listen to the Heat - maybe they make the best offer.

I doubt Beal interests them since it would add cap for a year plus they have Herro already

[lilfishi22]

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The Suns have to nail their next head coaching hire

No different to any year

[Ghost of Kleine]

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The Suns have to nail their next head coaching hire

No different to any year

Very true! But with this summer especially, and how much Ishbia mortgaged our future, and the potential to fall into a long rebuild if they fail ( again)?? Then any really adverse or disastrous outcomes might incentive Booker to finally demand out too!

But yes, they absolutely should be setting such goals every year!

[Ghost of Kleine]

I would not deal with Miami under any circumstance for Kevin Durant. They gave up their best bargaining chip in Jimmy. If they want to negotiate for Beal, then I'm all ears.

I would listen to the Heat - maybe they make the best offer.

I doubt Beal interests them since it would add cap for a year plus they have Herro already

If the Heat's offer isn't up to threshold, it can/ should be expanded to a 3 team trade with another team getting Wiggins/ filler, etc (perhaps one of Memphis, Toronto, Utah, Chicago or Milwaukee, )?? And we could get back a few more young players and picks? Really whatever it takes to get more value squeezed out in a KD trade.

[lilfishi22]

I would not deal with Miami under any circumstance for Kevin Durant. They gave up their best bargaining chip in Jimmy. If they want to negotiate for Beal, then I'm all ears.

Ware is interesting to me