ATL - Bane to Orlando for 4 FRP+

[drone3]

The crazy part about this whole thing is if Doc had done what 99.9% of the people on this board would have done line-up wise from game 1, the Bucks probably beat this Pacers team in 6.

I will continue to stand firm 100% on the Bucks instantly becoming the 3rd best team in the east if they made zero roster changes and simply just replaced Doc with with someone who can actually coach.

Idk about that

Giannis is amazing but we have a massive 2-7 problem compared to the other top teams.

Agreed, I think we could've made the 2nd round with a different coach, maybe ECF (not likely), but we just have too many issues outside of Giannis right now.

We could have won the whole thing with the right coach. With the right coach Kuz and Prince become assets not negatives

[jschligs]

Idk about that

Giannis is amazing but we have a massive 2-7 problem compared to the other top teams.

Agreed, I think we could've made the 2nd round with a different coach, maybe ECF (not likely), but we just have too many issues outside of Giannis right now.

We could have won the whole thing with the right coach. With the right coach Kuz and Prince become assets not negatives

Look, I'm as big of a fan as anyone, but no ****ing chance. Even in our best lineups we were dumb as a bag of rocks and outside of Giannis couldn't be consistent.

[FrieAaron]

Can't believe people who lived through Kidd to Bud to Griff/Doc are back to saying coaching doesn't make a difference. Same thing I was hearing during the Kidd years. Look at some of the guys playing meaningful minutes for these teams. You think guys like Pritchard, Nembhard, Braun, Mcconnell, etc would actually look like this for us? Hell, Cam Payne is getting minutes in the playoffs still. Of course talent matter, but I don't think we were making the most of our talent by a long shot.

[fan230]

I am ok with the Pacers winning. Tells me thst we lost to a v strong team and also that we shouldn’t be panicking about having lost in the first round.

Also, Giannis js a better player than sga or jokic.

[FrieAaron]

Back to this specific game...given the context this has to be the most embarrassing loss since game 7 of Phoenix vs Dallas, right?

[RiotPunch]

Can't believe people who lived through Kidd to Bud to Griff/Doc are back to saying coaching doesn't make a difference. Same thing I was hearing during the Kidd years. Look at some of the guys playing meaningful minutes for these teams. You think guys like Pritchard, Nembhard, Braun, Mcconnell, etc would actually look like this for us? Hell, Cam Payne is getting minutes in the playoffs still. Of course talent matter, but I don't think we were making the most of our talent by a long shot.

Yup. Coaching may be overrated to a degree, but a dumb coach can easily derail a really good team by pulling all of the wrong levers. Ignoring what the numbers are telling you about how different lineups work together can be catastrophic.

I'm not saying we beat the Pacers in 7 if Doc doesn't roll out **** Prince and Kuzma as your starting 2 & 3, or recognizes this was maybe a poor matchup for Brook, but we legit would have a good chance. Instead we were dead in the water before he was convinced to mix it up.

[th87]

So do we fire Atkinson after this series?

Coaching doesn’t matter as much as ppl think imo. I mean Denver fired Malone like a week before the playoffs and haven’t missed a beat. Memphis still sucked the way they were previously sucking after Jenkins left. And the Cavs don’t really look that much better than they did last year.

Oh and the Bucks are still first round fodder.

Coaching matters at the margins but talent in the playing ranks is so much more important.

Unless coaching starts Prince/Kuzma/Lopez against small lineups. Then it definitely matters.

(Edit: I see this point has been thoroughly covered)

[Plossum]

Can't believe people who lived through Kidd to Bud to Griff/Doc are back to saying coaching doesn't make a difference. Same thing I was hearing during the Kidd years. Look at some of the guys playing meaningful minutes for these teams. You think guys like Pritchard, Nembhard, Braun, Mcconnell, etc would actually look like this for us? Hell, Cam Payne is getting minutes in the playoffs still. Of course talent matter, but I don't think we were making the most of our talent by a long shot.

It’s not that coaching doesn’t matter at all, I’m just saying its impact is overrated. There are some clear exceptions where going from say Mark Jackson to Steve Kerr makes a big difference.

But unless you have a really bad coach like Mark Jackson I’m not sure changing coaches really makes that big of a difference.

It’s funny you bring up Kidd because after he left here he made the NBA finals last year after replacing… Rick Carlisle.

Did Bud make Phoenix worse? Did Vogel? What about Malone at Denver? Jenkins at Memphis?

If you split the ‘what’s important to winning a title pie’ between talent and coaching I’d say it’s 90% playing talent 10% coaching. In a close series with evenly matched talent it can absolutely be coaching that swings games but in a series like us vs Indy, I don’t think there’s a coach out there that would have swung the result in our favour. If Dame plays and is fit it gets a lot closer.

[soxperry]

I think one take away, not just after this year but going back a few years now (seems like its easy to forget) is to just never assume your team doesn't have a chance for a deep run. Health is so important. If we have Giannis and everyone on the team collecting a paycheck is reasonably healthy, then we have a decent shot at something.

So between that and Giannis being the sole reason the bucks sell anything, i can see reason enough to keep him from the front office standpoint.

[paulpressey25]

If you split the ‘what’s important to winning a title pie’ between talent and coaching I’d say it’s 90% playing talent 10% coaching. In a close series with evenly matched talent it can absolutely be coaching that swings games but in a series like us vs Indy, I don’t think there’s a coach out there that would have swung the result in our favour. If Dame plays and is fit it gets a lot closer.

It’s not a hard and fast rule. Bud made a massive impact here when he arrived. Larry Brown got the Pistons to a level Carlisle couldn’t.

At the same time, if I’m the current Bucks, I’d rather have the Pritchard/Doc combo than a Horst/Carlisle combo. We need GM-ing more at the moment, despite Doc’s bad flaws.

[CharityStripe34]

Absolutely have to keep a peak/prime Giannis and simply tinker on the margins and try to get the best gamers you can. There is quite a bit of parity in the last half decade and it's not going to change anytime soon. Besides that, Horst has to have a long conversation with Doc about actually adapting to the personnel you have and playing to their strengths. We have the most dominant player of his era in his prime who attracts 2-3 defenders. Get some guys who can make a shot and a pass, and wont pee down their leg against some pressure. Easier said than done, of course.

[mattg]

Doc def makes a difference

Huge difference.

Pacers/Bucks is actually a great contrast when it comes to coaching.

This Pacers team is good, but they are better than they should be because they are very well coached.

The Bucks with Giannis aren't as good as they should be because they are very poorly coached.

I've been high on this Pacers team for a few months, but swap Carlisle for Doc and this Pacers team wouldn't sniff the 2nd round.

The reality that this forum refuses to acknowledge is that the Bucks just aren't good at all even if you are viewing through the most optimistic lens which includes perfect health and a coach who plays the right lineups. This assumption that with better coaching and health that we would beat the Pacers has no basis in reality, this is a 1st round caliber team for 3 straight years and on the eye test is entirely unimpressive throughout all of those regular seasons even prior to the Dame trade. Giannis also just hasn't remotely played near well enough to carry a team to even a first round win. Selfish ball hog of a player whenever it matters and it's been that way consistently since the Championship.

[CharityStripe34]

Doc def makes a difference

Huge difference.

Pacers/Bucks is actually a great contrast when it comes to coaching.

This Pacers team is good, but they are better than they should be because they are very well coached.

The Bucks with Giannis aren't as good as they should be because they are very poorly coached.

I've been high on this Pacers team for a few months, but swap Carlisle for Doc and this Pacers team wouldn't sniff the 2nd round.

The reality that this forum refuses to acknowledge is that the Bucks just aren't good at all even if you are viewing through the most optimistic lens which includes perfect health and a coach who plays the right lineups. This assumption that with better coaching and health that we would beat the Pacers has no basis in reality, this is a 1st round caliber team for 3 straight years and on the eye test is entirely unimpressive throughout all of those regular seasons even prior to the Dame trade. Giannis also just hasn't remotely played near well enough to carry a team to even a first round win. Selfish ball hog of a player whenever it matters and it's been that way consistently since the Championship.

The guy who literally dished most of his assists in Game 5 to flame-thrower shooters and hardly touch the ball in OT? We all see sometimes when he presses and has tunnel vision, but to say he's selfish is a stretch. He's also had the most efficient offensive seasons of his career the last two seasons, so it's not like he's chucking. That can be true concurrently with the Pacers being a better overall roster (which they are) with an infinitely better coach.

[brewbucks]

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[DingleJerry]

With Cle imploding, something that could make some sense would be LBJ back to Cle. Something like Allen/Hunter roughly fits contracts. Generally make sense for LA too, get Luka his lob partner and a generally solid wing who are both of a more aligned age. LBJ tries to end his career on a happy note going back home.

My guess is LBJ would say No and prefers to ride it out in LA. Can't really blame him, he was still very good this year and team will likely be a top 5 seed again next year in spite of him and Luka not really being a good fit. With the parity in the league, assuming they can get a D focused rim protect lob big they can generally hang with anyone.

I got to this after hearing someone give the idea of gong back to Cle on league min to put them over the top and be the hero. No way I see him doing that and not being paid legit money so got me thinking and thought something along those lines would work

[MickeyDavis]

Celtics wearing their classic home jerseys in NY is dumb.

[CharityStripe34]

Myles Bridges would look awesome in a Bucks jersey

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[German Athens]

Myles Bridges would look awesome in a Bucks jersey

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Are we talking about the right Bridges, here?

[ReasonablySober]

Myles Bridges would look awesome in a Bucks jersey

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They already signed KPJ. Sure, why not. Go all the way to hell.

[worthlessBucks]

Javaris Crittenton is out.