[DAL - ORL - CHA - PHX] Klay for KCP

[babyjax13]

DAL trades: Klay Thompson, Jaden Hardy, 11
in: KCP, 16
Dallas drops a bit of salary and moves Klay for a 3+D player. They could follow up with 16 + some of their other salary to address a different need, but I like the fit of Kyrie-KCP-Washington-AD if healthy.

ORL trades: KCP, 16, 25
in: Klay Thompson, 11, 29
Orlando gets an injection of shooting and moves into the lottery.

CHA trades: 33, 34
in: Jaden Hardy (into MLE), 25
Charlotte greases the wheels of this trade by taking a young 2-guard on a not-horrid contract and moving two seconds for a late first.

PHX trades: 29
in: 33, 34
Phoenix moves down a little bit to get two shots at rotation players instead of one.

[Astaluego]

I wouldn't do it, the Mavs desperately need a good playmaker (and the best shots possible), not downgrade assets for a player archetype that we even have repeated (Christie/Martin and even Klay is still a decent defender)...

[babyjax13]

I wouldn't do it, the Mavs desperately need a good playmaker (and the best shots possible), not downgrade assets for a player archetype that we even have repeated (Christie/Martin and even Klay is still a decent defender)...

I will say that KCP has been relatively decent in the past at being a secondary creator with the ball. But my thought - could be totally wrong - is that the playmaking could just as easily be addressed by trading 16 as it could with 11 but that this also resulted in a meaningful addition to the rotation. Of course, I can see your logic completely, there would be some role-doubling with KCP-Christie, but I think KCP is a better player (or maybe the Orlando regression is real ... and he's not).

[Mavrelous]

KCP was Mavs target b4 Klay, but Nuggets refused to play ball, if Fears and the rest of good PG prospects are off the board then I like the deal a lot.

[hcsilla]

The Suns obviously do this.

[giberish]

I feel like this is a bad idea for Charlotte. They need to fill out their roster with credible rotation players so they don't collapse after 1 or 2 injuries and if Hardy was a credible rotation player I'd expect Dallas to want to keep him (they're not overly deep). Then they probably lose on the pick swap as well (though it's close).

[luciano-davidwesley]

The Suns obviously do this.

I read your post wrong and was about to argue that the Suns are receiving great value. No matter lol

[Skybox]

I don't think OP works...KCP makes significantly more than Klay. Outside of ORL/DAL, I think the rest of the shuffling is unnecessary...

simplified (my assumption is that CHA & PHX were included just to facilitate - which I don't think is required):

ORL sends: KCP, 16, 25
DAL sends: Klay, Hardy, 11

DAL can still do the other deal to shuffle picks, if desired, but in this form, they grab 2 frp.

I do this in a second for ORL and it's not really even about Klay - although I welcome his shooting and experience.

I think KCP, next to Kyrie, is a better fit. People are writing KCP off (from a distance) but he's still an absolutely fearsome defender, way out of Klay's league - at this point. Klay is a few years older than KCP but the athleticism & injury damage gap is much more significant than that. The shooting is team-wide in ORL, clearly more systemic than 10 guys who used to know how to shoot just forgetting how to shoot all at once. KCP's % jumped back up when ORL started actually playing with a real PG in Cory Joseph...imagine what the jump could be going from a 3rd string type vet to a much more impactful guy like Kyrie...and all of the plans have to be Kyrie-centric. DAL has put all of their chips on him now.

IF DAL wants to expand it to include Gafford, ORL is listening

[orlando_joe]

unless magic really,really love someone at 11 i think they pass...unless can unload klay to nets for 29 and 3 -2nds? plus cash..lol
and magic just get 11 and tpe...

also why is orlando not just trading with dallas and keep pick 25? really do not understand? not that it changes my mind much but 25 is better then 29 right?

[HornetJail]

Hardy's not really what we are looking for, I'd rather have the two tries at drafting talent early in the 2nd.

But if #25 is on the clock and there's someone we really like that we don't think makes it to #33 yeah why not.

Dallas shouldn't do this though.

[Texas Chuck]

I would want to know who is sitting there at 11(or what playmaker I could get for 11 I couldn't get with 16). Assuming I can still get a veteran player with 16 or can't get one with either and there is no draftable player I love, sure I'd drop down to dump Hardy and swap KCP for Klay.

[Magic_Johnny12]

I’m a fan.

Not to swap KCP with Klay, but to jump into the lottery.

[babyjax13]

I would want to know who is sitting there at 11(or what playmaker I could get for 11 I couldn't get with 16). Assuming I can still get a veteran player with 16 or can't get one with either and there is no draftable player I love, sure I'd drop down to dump Hardy and swap KCP for Klay.

I did the exercise of thinking through the second question and I really could not identify a playmaker to trade for that would be available for 11 but not 16. B/c of that, it makes sense (to me) to get some marginal value by doing something like this (assuming they don't prefer to make the pick). I also had a thought of Miles McBride instead of the usual suspects like Sexton and Simons given his lower annual salary and that he is a positive defensive player.

[Texas Chuck]

I would want to know who is sitting there at 11(or what playmaker I could get for 11 I couldn't get with 16). Assuming I can still get a veteran player with 16 or can't get one with either and there is no draftable player I love, sure I'd drop down to dump Hardy and swap KCP for Klay.

I did the exercise of thinking through the second question and I really could not identify a playmaker to trade for that would be available for 11 but not 16. B/c of that, it makes sense (to me) to get some marginal value by doing something like this (assuming they don't prefer to make the pick). I also had a thought of Miles McBride instead of the usual suspects like Sexton and Simons given his lower annual salary and that he is a positive defensive player.

Yeah I don't think you are wrong with that analysis.

I'm probably not the guy to talk into McBride. He might well be ready for a breakout with a bigger role, but I'm leery of that with the level of need Dallas has.

[jayjaysee]

Agree… because Dallas can’t afford the actual impact talent, the player they trade for (Sexton, Monk, etc) likely can be had for 16th. And now you’re just taking the free bet that KCP will bounce back.

The matching salary for the next trade is less clear (Gafford and/or Martin I assume?) but it definitely seems like filling two holes. Even if you aren’t filling them very high.

Even just adding in Martin+25 for Ayo+45 and drafting Jace or Boogie at 16th? Meh.

[babyjax13]

Agree… because Dallas can’t afford the actual impact talent, the player they trade for (Sexton, Monk, etc) likely can be had for 16th. And now you’re just taking the free bet that KCP will bounce back.

The matching salary for the next trade is less clear (Gafford and/or Martin I assume?) but it definitely seems like filling two holes. Even if you aren’t filling them very high.

Even just adding in Martin+25 for Ayo+45 and drafting Jace or Boogie at 16th? Meh.

The other crazy follow up might be something like ...

DAL trades: Gafford, Martin, 16
in: Sexton, 21

LAL trades: Vincent, Kleber, Knecht
in: Gafford, Martin

Team X trades: value (would Boston do 28?)
in: Knecht

UTA trades: Sexton, 21
in: Vincent, Kleber, 16, value

And then see what you can get with #21, too

[jayjaysee]

Agree… because Dallas can’t afford the actual impact talent, the player they trade for (Sexton, Monk, etc) likely can be had for 16th. And now you’re just taking the free bet that KCP will bounce back.

The matching salary for the next trade is less clear (Gafford and/or Martin I assume?) but it definitely seems like filling two holes. Even if you aren’t filling them very high.

Even just adding in Martin+25 for Ayo+45 and drafting Jace or Boogie at 16th? Meh.

The other crazy follow up might be something like ...

DAL trades: Gafford, Martin, 16
in: Sexton, 21

LAL trades: Vincent, Kleber, Knecht
in: Gafford, Martin

Team X trades: value (would Boston do 28?)
in: Knecht

UTA trades: Sexton, 21
in: Vincent, Kleber, 16, value

And then see what you can get with #21, too

I do that for Dallas before my Ayo idea definitely.

Do think Phoenix is getting too good a deal in OP though. Orlando should do their trade with 33 instead of 29. And then someone gets 34?

Could be Dallas depending on your thoughts of KCP, could stay in CLT depending on how you feel about taking on Hardy’s small, but bad, deal.

[babyjax13]

Agree… because Dallas can’t afford the actual impact talent, the player they trade for (Sexton, Monk, etc) likely can be had for 16th. And now you’re just taking the free bet that KCP will bounce back.

The matching salary for the next trade is less clear (Gafford and/or Martin I assume?) but it definitely seems like filling two holes. Even if you aren’t filling them very high.

Even just adding in Martin+25 for Ayo+45 and drafting Jace or Boogie at 16th? Meh.

The other crazy follow up might be something like ...

DAL trades: Gafford, Martin, 16
in: Sexton, 21

LAL trades: Vincent, Kleber, Knecht
in: Gafford, Martin

Team X trades: value (would Boston do 28?)
in: Knecht

UTA trades: Sexton, 21
in: Vincent, Kleber, 16, value

And then see what you can get with #21, too

I do that for Dallas before my Ayo idea definitely.

Do think Phoenix is getting too good a deal in OP though. Orlando should do their trade with 33 instead of 29. And then someone gets 34?

Could be Dallas depending on your thoughts of KCP, could stay in CLT depending on how you feel about taking on Hardy’s small, but bad, deal.

Heck, follow up with OMP, Powell, and 21 for Ayo

[jayjaysee]

The other crazy follow up might be something like ...

DAL trades: Gafford, Martin, 16
in: Sexton, 21

LAL trades: Vincent, Kleber, Knecht
in: Gafford, Martin

Team X trades: value (would Boston do 28?)
in: Knecht

UTA trades: Sexton, 21
in: Vincent, Kleber, 16, value

And then see what you can get with #21, too

I do that for Dallas before my Ayo idea definitely.

Do think Phoenix is getting too good a deal in OP though. Orlando should do their trade with 33 instead of 29. And then someone gets 34?

Could be Dallas depending on your thoughts of KCP, could stay in CLT depending on how you feel about taking on Hardy’s small, but bad, deal.

Heck, follow up with OMP, Powell, and 21 for Ayo

Really I was thinking just Utah/orl/dal here

Dallas - Klay, Gafford, Hardy, Powell, 11
Dallas - Sexton and 25
Orlando - KCP, Cole, 16 and 25
Orlando - Gafford, Klay, 11
Utah - Sexton
Utah - Cole, Hardy, Powell, 16

Other teams chip in a second or two?

And maybe you send Goga to Dallas, Martin to Utah to one stop shop it. Utah can flip Martin later?

[babyjax13]

I do that for Dallas before my Ayo idea definitely.

Do think Phoenix is getting too good a deal in OP though. Orlando should do their trade with 33 instead of 29. And then someone gets 34?

Could be Dallas depending on your thoughts of KCP, could stay in CLT depending on how you feel about taking on Hardy’s small, but bad, deal.

Heck, follow up with OMP, Powell, and 21 for Ayo

Really I was thinking just Utah/orl/dal here

Dallas - Klay, Gafford, Hardy, Powell, 11
Dallas - Sexton and 25
Orlando - KCP, Cole, 16 and 25
Orlando - Gafford, Klay, 11
Utah - Sexton
Utah - Cole, Hardy, Powell, 16

Other teams chip in a second or two?

And maybe you send Goga to Dallas, Martin to Utah to one stop shop it. Utah can flip Martin later?

Pretty easy yes for Utah, like it all the way around. I assume Goga can easily be included.