What is the plan here?

[PushDaRock]

`
Basically the Chris Bosh Raptors.

Which is fun to watch when you a college student who wants something else to moan about.

But when you're a married adult you have no interest wasting your time watchiing because you no its a path to nowhere. The prototypical Treadmill.

Damn this really hit home, especially because I was in uni during the Bosh years and had unlimited amount of energy to watch every single raptors game, even through the darkest of times, I just don't have it in me anymore. The past 2 years, is the least number of games I have watched since the late 90's. I guess I'm trying to use this thread to see how I can justify coming back to watch the games again on a regular basis

Imagine working all day from 9-5, get home at 6 pm, cook dinner by 7-730.

Then you got about 4.5 hrs before bed time around midnight, you got a wife who wants attention and possibly even kids as well as wanting some alone time to wind down or game for a bit or catch up on a show.

This is just a typical weekday...does spending 2.5 hours on a mediocre product like the Raptors seem like a good idea to you guys?

yes

[PushDaRock]

Both the Pacers and the New York Knicks are on the verge of reaching the conference finals with one top 5 pick on each team.

KAT for the Knicks, who is definitely not a generational talent, and Jahil Okafor on the Pacers.

Roster construction is important, and guess who picked major contributors OG (23) and Pascal (27) on those teams?

I’ve been on this site almost 20 years, and the whinging never ends.

holy lurker batman

[mdenny]

Damn this really hit home, especially because I was in uni during the Bosh years and had unlimited amount of energy to watch every single raptors game, even through the darkest of times, I just don't have it in me anymore. The past 2 years, is the least number of games I have watched since the late 90's. I guess I'm trying to use this thread to see how I can justify coming back to watch the games again on a regular basis

Imagine working all day from 9-5, get home at 6 pm, cook dinner by 7-730.

Then you got about 4.5 hrs before bed time around midnight, you got a wife who wants attention and possibly even kids as well as wanting some alone time to wind down or game for a bit or catch up on a show.

This is just a typical weekday...does spending 2.5 hours on a mediocre product like the Raptors seem like a good idea to you guys?

yes

Dude just described the best years of my life. Now I'm an empty nester waiting for grandkids lol. Totally treadmilling til the grandkids arrive.

[nestea]

Masai promised a proper rebuild. More like he is trying to win asap to keep his job.

I don't think his job is in jeopardy. You have presidents of teams in the city that have won squat and still have their jobs going into double digit year's.

MJ has won.

[PushDaRock]

Imagine working all day from 9-5, get home at 6 pm, cook dinner by 7-730.

Then you got about 4.5 hrs before bed time around midnight, you got a wife who wants attention and possibly even kids as well as wanting some alone time to wind down or game for a bit or catch up on a show.

This is just a typical weekday...does spending 2.5 hours on a mediocre product like the Raptors seem like a good idea to you guys?

yes

Dude just described the best years of my life. Now I'm an empty nester waiting for grandkids lol. Totally treadmilling til the grandkids arrive.

you don't know what you had till it's gone!

[LoveMyRaps]

Trust in Masai.

[mdenny]

There's a part of the fanbase that percieves "rebuild" as "banking on a top pick to become MJ".

What they really want is to "believe" that a prospect could become like Michael Jordan. And now it makes total sense why the scotty cult was so weird. That's what their whole deal is. Hitching your wagon to an 18 year old kid and attempting to destroy anyone that stands in the way of that possibility.

The problem is that nba players are grown men and it's a business. So 99% of the players have no interest indulging in that type of fan dream. And it doesn't have anything to do with basketball either. It's just some sort of fantasy indulgence related to gambling psychology.

One can see why fans like that end up being toxic. 99% of pro basketball players are "so meh".

If we did get the first overall or second.....you can bet all the ppl now having a temper tantrum would be the same ones that would become "flagg/Harper fans" instead of raptor fans.

And similar to the scotty thing...if flagg or Harper struggled in the first 3 months.....EVERYONE would be thrown under the bus in defense of the new golden child.

Plus there would be endless projection and biased interpretations of every interaction on the court. "Look how Harper already acts like a team leader". While there's grown ass men around them....15 years their senior who see through the whole thing and just keep performing their job with dedication.

I genuinely loathe this type of fan. It's immature and it kinda dehumanizes all the older players. Fans who are in it for the hype. Hating on a veteran like Thaddeus Young smh.

[ishoy123]

There's a part of the fanbase that percieves "rebuild" as "banking on a top pick to become MJ".

What they really want is to "believe" that a prospect could become like Michael Jordan. And now it makes total sense why the scotty cult was so weird. That's what their whole deal is. Hitching your wagon to an 18 year old kid and attempting to destroy anyone that stands in the way of that possibility.

The problem is that nba players are grown men and it's a business. So 99% of the players have no interest indulging in that type of fan dream. And it doesn't have anything to do with basketball either. It's just some sort of fantasy indulgence related to gambling psychology.

One can see why fans like that end up being toxic. 99% of pro basketball players are "so meh".

If we did get the first overall or second.....you can bet all the ppl now having a temper tantrum would be the same ones that would become "flagg/Harper fans" instead of raptor fans.

And similar to the scotty thing...if flagg or Harper struggled in the first 3 months.....EVERYONE would be thrown under the bus in defense of the new golden child.

Plus there would be endless projection and biased interpretations of every interaction on the court. "Look how Harper already acts like a team leader". While there's grown ass men around them....15 years their senior who see through the whole thing and just keep performing their job with dedication.

I genuinely loathe this type of fan. It's immature and it kinda dehumanizes all the older players. Fans who are in it for the hype. Hating on a veteran like Thaddeus Young smh.

Tbf Thad was the one who was throwing shade at Toronto

[Son Goku 25]

If you look at the east currently.

It's really,

Bos
Ny
Cle
Ind

Then it'll be anyone really and raps can be right there and anything can happen. Tatum likely out a year if it's an Achilles tear but they'll still be really good. Either way there aren't any super teams in the east im worried about.

It's about getting a balanced team and get some exp and we can beat any team in the east and then move forward from there.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

You keep playing to win and keep building up the talent base, same as was done from 2013-2018.

I wouldn't expect much anytime soon; 2020 to at least 2027 will probably be a mostly wasted decade, before things pick up again.

The key difference in the preceding era? Kyle Lowry.

[nivisi9]

The Raptors tank was ahead of Sixers up until the last few weeks of the year BUT management didn't fully commit, won a bunch of meaningless games at the end of the year, and passed a couple teams late...

Had they not passed would've resulted in a top 3 or top 6 pick.

Tanking shouldve been especially important and met with some sense of urgency (over other teams) after trading for Ingram.

The trade confirmed Raptors arent trying to lose next yr, and had one last chance to add a star prospect to this core.

This lottery scenario/result is exactly why you don't trade for Ingram year 1 into a rebuild..

we are now very likely headed back to the treadmill.

Will this team/core even be as good as the Siakam/OG/FVV Raptors?

probably unlikely, let that sink in.

Could Masai only last a year "rebuilding"?

Has management potentially sealed the fate of a "failed" rebuild already?

Lack of patience seems like a troubling pattern since the championship.

-Consistently making treadmill moves.
-trading draft assets for play-in calibre teams.
-making "rebuild" decisions to late.
-mediocre returns on assets or letting them walk.

Not to mention many of the most impactful players personnel decisions continue to look worse with time:

- Picking Norm Powell to not pay and give up on (despite elite efficiency across the board + headed into prime + had limited opportunity/role while on the team)

- Acquiring/paying Gary Trent Jr as young up and coming player - fail

- 1st round picks : either traded, Flynn, Koloko.

- OG and Siakam playing like max players, making trade returns seem even more mediocre

Some of those items can be debated, may involve some nuance, and all complain in some capacity about team management, but for the most part...Is this not reality?

[Basketball_Jones]

Can’t deny the results ultimately so no point in arguing the details imo. Masai has next season to show his vision is working or he’s done.

[DreamTeam09]

The reality is whatever your perception is,

We have multiple lottery picks sprinkled all over this roster
Plenty of em are ours
We control all of our picks going fwd
Just picked up a 22 5 5 player
Under the luxury tax, plenty of good to look fwd too which is our current perception & reality instead of looking back on moves that took place 4-5 yrs ago

[Thaddy]

I would say it is. Unless we see insane growth from Barnes, Dick, and the other youngish players we have we're in for a ride. At 9th we need to take a swing for the fences, playing it safe with a player like Fleming or Newell would be the worst move imaginable.

The telling sign of whether we're a contender next season or not is if Barnes, Dick, Walter, and our pick are good and show significant strides. Older prospects like Battle, Shead, Mogbo, and Agbaji will never be more than role players. Players like RJ, IQ, and BI are who they are at this point. Maybe you'll see slight improvements but it would be amazing.

We're looking at 38 wins +/- 5. We will be in the lottery again as a play-in loser or just outside of it as a first round exit. That is the most likely outcome. I wouldn't think we have growth like the Pistons, we don't have anyone like Cade.

The clue I've been seeing on RealGM is that Ed Rogers doesn't like Masai, and will stack reasons against Masai to fire him. Masai probably saw this coming and is going for the playoffs for playoff revenue and to show he's capable of building a playoff team. I've seen Masai say in an interview a long time ago (paraphrased) "I know talent and I know how to build a playoff team".

It seems like he's trying to prove that to secure his next deal. It's pretty (insert better word here) to even question the man who made the championship in Toronto happen, but we have a big (insert even better word here) in Rogers leading the ownership group.

[JB7]

If you look at the east currently.

It's really,

Bos
Ny
Cle
Ind

Then it'll be anyone really and raps can be right there and anything can happen. Tatum likely out a year if it's an Achilles tear but they'll still be really good. Either way there aren't any super teams in the east im worried about.

It's about getting a balanced team and get some exp and we can beat any team in the east and then move forward from there.

So what your saying is the Raps are going to end up 1st in the East next season

[Randle McMurphy]

There is no plan; Masai has no idea what he’s doing from season to season.

We are about to enter full treadmill mode for years to come with no real chance of contention.

[TheRaptor!]

The reality is whatever your perception is,

We have multiple lottery picks sprinkled all over this roster
Plenty of em are ours
We control all of our picks going fwd
Just picked up a 22 5 5 player
Under the luxury tax, plenty of good to look fwd too which is our current perception & reality instead of looking back on moves that took place 4-5 yrs ago

Exactly

my perception however,

is the NBA telling the Sixers to get themselves in a postion for a top 3 pick and they'll make it happen for them.

[mdenny]

There is no plan; Masai has no idea what he’s doing from season to season.

We are about to enter full treadmill mode for years to come with no real chance of contention.

I don't get it.

2 years ago all we had was OG/siakam/scotty/poetl. No prospects. No bench. No upcoming pick. Ppl were saying "addition by subtraction!".

Now THAT was a false hope summer in my opinion.

But we have like 5 decent prospects. A new top 10 pick incoming. Ingram coming. Iq, RJ and scotty are 25 and under. Still got the vet C in poetl.

Really doesn't seem hopeless like 2 years ago imo.

[TheRaptor!]

Damn this really hit home, especially because I was in uni during the Bosh years and had unlimited amount of energy to watch every single raptors game, even through the darkest of times, I just don't have it in me anymore. The past 2 years, is the least number of games I have watched since the late 90's. I guess I'm trying to use this thread to see how I can justify coming back to watch the games again on a regular basis

Imagine working all day from 9-5, get home at 6 pm, cook dinner by 7-730.

Then you got about 4.5 hrs before bed time around midnight, you got a wife who wants attention and possibly even kids as well as wanting some alone time to wind down or game for a bit or catch up on a show.

This is just a typical weekday...does spending 2.5 hours on a mediocre product like the Raptors seem like a good idea to you guys?

yes

You're a real fan

[DelAbbot]

No.

Next season will prove whether this rebuild is a success or failure, as the rebuild core SB/IQ/RJ/BI/JP is pretty much set and not young anymore.