2025 Draft Thread - Part 2

[nate33]

To be fair he scored as much as Kyshawn per minute. He's deaf so that may have been an issue with his playing time.

4 stocks per 40 definitely has my attention. His standing reach is only a half inch less than Flagg.

Right. And we drafted Kyshawn with the 24th pick of a weak draft. I would not have been happy at all drafting him at #6 in a modestly stronger draft.

[Dark Faze]

IDK, we'll see what happens. Maybe we get lucky in other ways. But I only watched 5 games this year. Kudos to those who stay locked in watching all the games.

Free agency really doesn't feel like a legitimate path to winning for a number of franchises. You're basically getting the right to overpay players that teams didn't feel were worth paying. Once in a blue moon a team is dumb enough to let go of a guy like Jalen Brunson and you get an opportunity to go all in like the Knicks have.

As far as the draft, I think multiple years worth of results should have some impact on the odds. But that's kind of irrelevant when a team with 2% odds wins lul. Just incredibly good luck for the Mavs or rigged, take your pick .

[The Consiglieri]

I’ll just say this: I’m disappointed. I don’t really care about the rigging stuff. I’m honestly just glad Flagg and Harper are going West. I think I would have been more peeved if Charlotte or Philly ended up with either guy.

I’ll say another thing: the NBA changes so much every year. Giannis might be asking out. Tatum just tore his Achilles and this is probably it for that Celtics group. Who knows with the Sixers. Cavs are imploding. Wizards just gotta be chipping away and we’ll see what happens.

I’m on board with Tre Johnson. His measurables, 6’5” with a 6’11 wingspan and 8’5” standing reach are insane.

The only positive I took out of it, was that the guys in our FO were smart as hell to get pick swaps throughout the rest of this decade and beyond, because we sure as hell aren't ever gonna climb the lottery in any lottery that actually has mega elite prospects. That gives me some minute degree of hope. That and we get 1 more bite at the apple next year in a known loaded class, but boy are we totally ----ed now. The only saving grace is that it was a catastrophe of a result, 1 in 5 shot which is why I so badly did not want us to finish in the 2 slot: because it would open up a chance to fall to 6 and out of the (well that's a weird pick, inside the top 3-4, pushing a top 4 guy to us at 5). Now, as long as they play this right and take long term upside high volatility types like a Fears or Maluach, they'll be bottom 3 again and won't have to risk gifting the pick to the Knicks. No thank you to Queen, get the upside volatility guy that insures it takes a while, and we suck properly next year, which appears to have 3, rather than 2, mega studs, and possibly 4 currently.

Phoenix and Milwaukee seem about to implode gifting us more balls in the '26, '28 and '30 classes. This also likely means we will be lottery trash through '26-'27 if you care to stay on the ride. I will be on the ride for trade deadlines, and lottery rigging and the draft, and nothing else, so you can escape my doom and permanent gloom.

[tontoz]

To be fair he scored as much as Kyshawn per minute. He's deaf so that may have been an issue with his playing time.

4 stocks per 40 definitely has my attention. His standing reach is only a half inch less than Flagg.

Right. And we drafted Kyshawn with the 24th pick of a weak draft. I would not have been happy at all drafting him at #6 in a modestly stronger draft.

Kyshawn was our best rookie.

Bryant has elite size for a wing to go with plus athleticism. It is hard to get a read on his skills but i wouldn't hate it to draft him at 6. Physically he looks somewhere in between Mikal and OG . He certainly projects to be a good defender.

His BPM was 8.8. When i look at the options at 6 we could do worse. I see guys with some pretty big holes.

[Kanyewest]

Knew going into the draft that we had a greater chance of drafting 6th than 1 or 2 so can’t say I was surprised at the outcome. Disappointed. Absolutely! But not surprised. Oh well.

Who we taking with our 6th and 18th pick?

I want Tre Johnson at 6 if he’s there and maybe Flemming or Bryant at 18.

Yup, and the Wizards are also coming off last year when they picked number 2 (granted it was a weaker draft but Wizards would have been lucky if lightning were to strike twice).

More annoyed at the Mavs winning but unlikely outcomes were also on the menu.

[The Consiglieri]

I am very suspect on queen. He's 20 and has a lot of growing into his body to do.

Sent from my SM-S926U1 using RealGM mobile app

Below zero interest. How many decades have we seen all offense, no defense big mans flail around and turn into negative assets in 2 seconds in the NBA? His offense is far better then is typical for these types, but the reality that he's a massively, comically overaged prospects for a freshman, has exactly the same holes in his game he's had every year going back to high school, w/no seeming changes, means I have less than absolute zero interest, plus if he's as good as his fans thinks, he would genuinely inject too much offensive upside towards mediocrity in the short term and harm our tank for '26 pick protection (it can sound like I'm having it both ways, but my argument is more: conceding he's an offensive mega weapon, or at least, a damn good one, and for a while, we'll get by with the defensive issues, and that potentially makes us a lot better in the short term, than raw as hell projects like Maluach, or very raw PG's like Fears, or even Sorber in a trade down etc).

[TGW]

6: Malauch
18: Demin

They both match the profile...raw, young, needs at least 3 years of development.

Fits Dawkins 2035 timeline of domination.

[The Consiglieri]

:onfire: The fan base has the pitchforks out, there will be no going back from them believing this was rigged.
I could have lived with this had the Mavericks and Spurs not gotten 1 & 2, still shocked and depressed.

Watch on YouTube

A lot of the "it's not rigged" crowd, I have to think are fans of the Celtics, Knicks, Lakers, Spurs, Miami etc, who have a never ending party atop the league. Its a league where the right "story" wins the lottery in any given offseason with a stud and a huge marketing problem (Lebron leaving, AD leaving, New Orleans moving changing owners, Lebron Coming back if they get another #1 pick to trade and on and on and on), while the franchises that don't know any better and have never tasted joy, can sit in the corner again because they won't notice the difference.

The anti-conspiracy people keep thinking this is about Dallas, when it's about Dallas, building an international fandom juggernaut in San Antoion for 3rd time in 35 years, and resurrecting the imploding Sixers (no chance they tumble down and gift the tiny market OKC team another top 8 pick) before they totally collapsed. The NBA saved 3 markets they cared about, and caved in the skulls of 3 markets they couldn't give less of a ---- about, the mormons and ex-pats in Salt Lake, the permanently --- Hornets/Bobcats/whateverthehell, and the Boulez, oh, and New Orleans, you got your Davis/Zion love, and new ownership, you tumble too, nobody's watching in New Orleans.

It's the combo of this rewarding the flagship teams, punishing the teams nobody cares about, rewarding the right markets, punishing the who cares ones, and this happening every single year it's a loaded draft with flagship studs for the flagship teams atop the board, rather than the Risacher/Sarr ground chuck that was '24, and alas, worthless.

It's so beyond ridiculous.

[payitforward]

In fairness, the weakness of the '24 draft was pretty much at the top. All the same, I agree with nate that Ky wasn't going to be the #6 pick in any draft.

It's an infuriating disappointment to have dropped to 6 in this draft, obviously. We still need to pick someone who has the potential to be one of the best players in the league. The highest ceiling player, IOW, even if reaching that ceiling is speculative.

For me, that guy is Maluach. But... he might well be gone. If so, it's either Queen or...

Well, I sure as H#ll don't want Tre Johnson or Edgcombe or Knueppel or Jakucionis. & however much you like Thomas Sorber, he looks like a reach at 6.

So... maybe look for the best trade-down offer.

If the Nets would give us 8 & 27 for 6, I'd jump on it. Even 8 & 36 for 6 might do the trick -- take Queen or Fears plus whoever looks promising at 36 & 40.

If the Hawks would do 13 & 22 for 6, I'd make that trade as well: take 2 of Sorber, CM-B, & Rasheer Fleming.

At this point, however, the main question is: can we get Maluach somehow? & how...?

[pancakes3]

lol, my glimmer of hope is that someone reaches for Maluach and we catch Tre Johnson slipping. Funny that lots of ppl want Maluach himself. I do see Maluach pushing either VJ or Tre down, probably VJ bc I can't see Utah passing on Tre. Unless they do something wacky like draft Kneuppel

[P'Oed]

What an absolute kick to the Wizard magic balls. I really don’t know what’s keeping anyone a fan anymore. For me, I guess it’s the handing over of a suffering franchise through the family generations. At least my dad got to see one championship in his lifetime, because it’s sure as hell looking like another one isn’t happening in the next 2 decades.

I really don’t see it with Queen, and I’m a huge Terp fan. Sure, they asked a lot of a young freshman offensively which took energy away from other areas of the game but man… some of his big games, the Big Ten Tournament game against Michigan for example, he had exactly 3 rebounds. There were a handful of other games where he was just disgustingly awful on the boards. Defensively, he leaves a lot to be desired as well. Might come through with a big block every once in a while but he’s often out of position and disinterested defensively. And for all the talk about his game offensively, he doesn’t really have many actual moves in the post; just a quick first step and a body that moves smaller players out of the way charging to the basket. Hit a hell of a shot in the tournament and had some really memorable performances but i have a tough time picturing his game translating to the pros.

[The Consiglieri]

lol, my glimmer of hope is that someone reaches for Maluach and we catch Tre Johnson slipping. Funny that lots of ppl want Maluach himself. I do see Maluach pushing either VJ or Tre down, probably VJ bc I can't see Utah passing on Tre. Unless they do something wacky like draft Kneuppel

I'm basically in favor of going after 10-20% stardom, 70-80% bust types, because drafting for complimentary talent simply isn't going to move the needle. Just more chairs on the titanic bull----, and upside volatility guys carry the added benefit, usually, of being raw and taking a bit to hit on that upside. We don't need to move the general talent supply up to closer to sub mediocrity rather than catastrophically bad when we have a risk of losing our pick/getting hosed again. I don't want guys that would be yet another Cal Cheany/Guggs whatever, aim for solid type prospect.

With a guy like Tre, I'm just curious what the potential is to be much better than just a solid guy. The offensive game (part of it anyway), sounds like length could provide a lot of defensive potential (I feel like I read that somewhere). Does he have scenarios where he could be a hidden mega stud?

[Dat2U]

My current ranking, assuming Flagg, Harper, Ace & VJ are all off the board.

1(5). SG Tre Johnson ... safest pick. Instinctive scorer, playmaker ... SG version of Brandon Miller.
2(6). FC Derik Queen ... upside play with some risk. Elite skill & processing. Body & motor needs work.
3(7). PG Jeremiah Fears ... reminds me alot of Devin Harris
4(8). C Thomas Sorber ... reminds me of alot of Kevon Looney pre-injuries
5(9). SF Will Riley ... upside play, very skilled at 6-8 but needs to work on strength
6(10). C Khaman Maluach ... upside play, incredibly long & mobile but feel/reactions and skill level must improve to live up to potential.
7(11). PF Yaxel Lendeborg ... polished, high motor PF who plays with an edge. NBA ready.
8(12). C Danny Wolf ... similar traits and skillset to Derik Queen just not quite at Queen's mercurial level
9(13). PG Kasparas Jakucionis ... superior pick & roll PG, good processor, decision maker, streaky shooter.
10(14). GF Kon Knueppel ... plus C&S but wesk off the dribble. Can attack angles on closeouts but limited elsewhere. Strong lower base helps but not quick.
11(15). SF Noah Penda ... excellent processor & elite perimeter defender. Jumper is suspect.
12(16). F Carter Bryant ... elite defensive tools, good looking shot, limited ball skills.
13(17). GF Nique Clifford ... older ready made prospect who can contribute day one
14(18). PG Walter Clayton Jr - arguably best shooter in the draft. Won't do much else.
15(19). PG Nolan Traore ... upside play. Quick, below the rim PG with 3 level scoring potential but hasn't mastered scoring at any level, yet.
16(20). C Maxime Raynaud - ultra skilled big with no defensive upside
17(21). SF Liam McNeeley - good shooter who can potentially do more than attack closeouts. Frame needs work
18(22). G Kam Jones - prototypical 3rd guard who can provide buckets off the bench.
19(23). G Egor Demin - painfully slow pick & roll PG. Great decision maker. Will have to scale down to off ball roll and improve shooting
20(24). C Ryan Kalkbrenner - big, slow with excellent hands and touch.
21(25). C Johni Broome - can do a little bit of everything but nothing at a real high level.
22(26). PF Bogoljub Markovic - excellent shooter with good length
23(27). C Alex Condon - athletic, two-way big with some passing skills.
24(28). FC Collin Murray-Boyles - 6-7 old school low post big but has switchability defensively
25(29). SF Hugo Gonzalez - athletic high flyer who loves to slash into brick walls.
26(30). PF Noa Essengue - toolsy defensive prospect with suspect hands & limited perimeter game - the black Jan Vesely.

Honorable mention:
PFs: A. Thiero, R. Fleming
SFs: A. Toohey
Cs: J. Beringer, H. Yang
SGs: C. Lanier, M. Byrd, D. Powell
PGs: B. Fland, L. Philon, B. Saraf, T. Pettiford

[Dat2U]

Im not a fan of Rasheer Fleming. I see a lesser version of Taylor Hendricks. No ball skills, no slashing, no connective passing. I don't see many indicators of high level processing or feel. Gives off Rui vibes. Can certainly be a fine role player. Looks the part. We could use some muscle on the roster but I don't want a JAG.

[nate33]

8(12). C Danny Wolf ... similar traits and skillset to Derik Queen just not quite at Queen's mercurial level

I was just checking him out the other day. He seems like he could be 90% of what Queen is, except he’ll likely be available at #18 instead of at #6. Since neither guy strikes me as a guy I’m sure can start in a playoff game due to defensive limitations, I’d rather go for the discount version with the later pick.

[payitforward]

Great to see a positive discussion ensue here -- I for one am really tired of the excessive whining & empty critiques with no positive ideas of what to do.

[payitforward]

8(12). C Danny Wolf ... similar traits and skillset to Derik Queen just not quite at Queen's mercurial level

I was just checking him out the other day. He seems like he could be 90% of what Queen is, except he’ll likely be available at #18 instead of at #6. Since neither guy strikes me as a guy I’m sure can start in a playoff game due to defensive limitations, I’d rather go for the discount version with the later pick.

I can't put Queen over Maluach, but he's for sure a possibility.

IMO if we came away with Maluach & Lendeborg, we'd have a shot at being very very happy with our draft. Maybe Queen & Lendeborg too.

[Kanyewest]

:onfire: The fan base has the pitchforks out, there will be no going back from them believing this was rigged.
I could have lived with this had the Mavericks and Spurs not gotten 1 & 2, still shocked and depressed.

Watch on YouTube

A lot of the "it's not rigged" crowd, I have to think are fans of the Celtics, Knicks, Lakers, Spurs, Miami etc, who have a never ending party atop the league. Its a league where the right "story" wins the lottery in any given offseason with a stud and a huge marketing problem (Lebron leaving, AD leaving, New Orleans moving changing owners, Lebron Coming back if they get another #1 pick to trade and on and on and on), while the franchises that don't know any better and have never tasted joy, can sit in the corner again because they won't notice the difference.

The anti-conspiracy people keep thinking this is about Dallas, when it's about Dallas, building an international fandom juggernaut in San Antoion for 3rd time in 35 years, and resurrecting the imploding Sixers (no chance they tumble down and gift the tiny market OKC team another top 8 pick) before they totally collapsed. The NBA saved 3 markets they cared about, and caved in the skulls of 3 markets they couldn't give less of a ---- about, the mormons and ex-pats in Salt Lake, the permanently --- Hornets/Bobcats/whateverthehell, and the Boulez, oh, and New Orleans, you got your Davis/Zion love, and new ownership, you tumble too, nobody's watching in New Orleans.

It's the combo of this rewarding the flagship teams, punishing the teams nobody cares about, rewarding the right markets, punishing the who cares ones, and this happening every single year it's a loaded draft with flagship studs for the flagship teams atop the board, rather than the Risacher/Sarr ground chuck that was '24, and alas, worthless.

It's so beyond ridiculous.

On one hand, Kyrie had a season ending injury for this to happen.

And also, it's a lottery, so unexpected results are going to happen.

Easy to draw lines towards a conspiracy once the draft has happened as well. Every team that could have won the Cooper Flagg draft would have been in line for some logic of the conspiracy.

Utah- white superstar in Salt Lake
Brooklyn- we need another star here to bolster them in the NY media market
Washington- huge media market in need of a star
Houston- This will be a great spot to put Cooper which could build a potential dynasty
Toronto - Let's try to grow the international market. (ok this would have been a tough sell for the conspiracy)

[doclinkin]

Jan Vesley vibe. Yeah, he's athletic and long.

This dude has done nothing over time.

https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/article_bc522175-515d-4986-896e-e85d5843a088.html

He's going to take years to contribute off the bench.

I think he might be a good role player, but I wouldn’t take him at #6. The guy averages 6.5 points!

To be fair he scored as much as Kyshawn per minute. He's deaf so that may have been an issue with his playing time.

4 stocks per 40 definitely has my attention. His standing reach is only a half inch less than Flagg.

Not deaf. Grandchild of Deaf Adults. Meaning he was raised fluent in sign language. Culturally Deaf. It's a thing in the Deaf community if you were raised understanding the lingo and values vs if you came to it late. HIs grandfather is in the Deaf Basketball Players HOF. Never knew there was such a thing.

I like him at 18, or even higher if we are moving around in trade, but I think he's not one of our targets at 6.

[dobrojim]

I like the idea of taking bigs

Yeah I know we stink so drafting for need is frowned upon but that said, whoever we draft needs
to have a role/position where we can evaluate them and give them a chance to show what they got.
We need at least one guy to be a prospective rebounder.

We've got SF/SGs that are promising with BIlal, KG.
But I also like Tre Johnson. I'll note that more and more teams are starting/playing smallish lineups with 1 big.

But I would definitely take Maluach if he is on the board. And I would be happy if we got Queen, Sorber
or maybe Wolf.

PS - Thanks Doc for clarifying the Bryant hearing story. He's not deaf but was raised around deaf grandparents.