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Presti's Tree Reaches DC: The Official Will Dawkins Thread

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Re: Presti's Tree Reaches DC: The Official Will Dawkins Thread 

Post#201 » by payitforward » Tue Apr 22, 2025 6:38 pm

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:
nate33 wrote:Certainly we could have done the exact same path as we did with Gallo and Muscala, only we would have given Detroit a large TPE instead of the dead weight contracts of Muscala and Gallo.

Fair enough. Hence, when you wrote...

nate33 wrote:...Gallo + Muscala ...are in fact less valuable as a trade chip than the raw cap room we would have had in their place...

...you were exaggerating slightly -- you have us getting the same results but with a TPE rather than the G & M contracts.

Except (hah!) I remind you that

a. we also got the #35 pick in 2024 as part of the Gallo/Muscala <> Bagley trade. Which we moved for two R2 picks in later years. Plus...

b. using the TPE would have prevented us using it for some other purpose (tho this might be irrelevant if the tpe has expired).

:wink:

I don't understand (a.). We would still be getting that #35 pick in a hypothetical Bagley trade where we send out a TPE (in place of Gallo + Muscala) and get back Bagley.

There is another reasonable scenario that I failed to mention.

If we let Porzingis walk, and he had no choice but to go to Detroit, we could have then called up Detroit and asked them to turn the Porzingis free agency signing into a Porzingis S&T whereby we trade Porzingis and they give us a $30M TPE and a top 55 protected SRP. Teams usually do this out of courtesy, because it costs them nothing. (Maybe we give them a little extra cash to pay for that top 55 protected pick.)

Now we would be shopping around a $30M TPE instead of the $12M in expiring contracts of Muscala and Gallo. A $30M TPE is WAY more valuable than Muscala + Gallo.

That's kind of a good point, nate -- you have succeeded in squeezing a bit more juice out of this! Well done amigo! :)
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Re: Presti's Tree Reaches DC: The Official Will Dawkins Thread 

Post#202 » by nate33 » Wed Apr 23, 2025 1:50 pm

doclinkin wrote:Odd to me to see how hard people work to downplay the work this front office has done in deconstructing the team and digging the foundation for a full rebuild. Seems to me everything they have done has been with significant foresight and forward planning. They articulated a plan early and have not deviated from it.

If this is directed at me, I think I have been very even-handed in my praise and criticism of the front office.

I very much like their overall strategy and there is no question that they are working very hard and mostly very smartly at executing it. But at the same time, I don't think they are performing miracles or anything. They are doing what a competent front office should do in a rebuilding situation with an owner who is willing to spend. They traded away their vets for assets and then proceeded to search high and low to find teams willing to trade picks for cap relief (like in the Bagley trade and the Smart trade). This is smart and appreciated, but not exactly revolutionary. I feel like it's the type of thing that most of us on this board would do if we were running the Wizards.

I think a handful of other moves were smart but nothing to write home about. These deals show that they do their due diligence and negotiate for good deals, but it wasn't like I was blown away when I saw them:
- the Gallo for Bagley trade
- the Kuzma trade
- the Beal trade
- the Gafford trade

The Marcus Smart trade was better still. I think the trade seemed to favor us the moment it happened, and it only got better after Memphis faltered in the second half of the season and the value of that pick increased.

I've been most impressed with their ability to create value out of seemingly nothing. These are the deals that I would have missed if I were running the Wizards so they impressed me more.
- The JV gambit where they recognized him as an overlooked bargain in free agency, rented him for a while to help protect Sarr, and then moved him for value.
- Signing Jared Butler, developing him, and moving him plus SRP's for a FRP.
- Developing Justin Champagne

All that said, I also think management has made a few missteps. In particular, I don't think they extracted enough value in the Deni and Porzingis trades. That's pretty much my only criticism of the front office.

I'm happy with their draft record so far, but the jury is still out given the extremely young age of their picks. I think we will be in much better position to assess their draft record in another year or two. I really do think that Bilal, Bub and George will pan out to be value picks relative to their position, which is all you can hope for.
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Re: Presti's Tree Reaches DC: The Official Will Dawkins Thread 

Post#203 » by payitforward » Wed Apr 23, 2025 2:20 pm

I think that's a well-considered rendition of their record, tho I do differ with you in a few places:

1. I thought the Beal trade was outstanding! I couldn't believe the haul of draft capital we got for him!
2. The Kuzma trade -- surely, this is looking better & better as the days & weeks pass :). I'm "blown away" in retrospect!
3. You pass over the acquisition of Colby Jones -- so far he's looking like an above average NBA player, & he's still only 22. It's NOT easy to add young guys like that to your roster.

Obviously, nate, it's the Avdija & Porzingis transactions that stick in your craw. It's easy to see why in the case of Deni -- less so (for me at least) in re: Porzingis.

You also pass over the Alex Sarr pick in silence. :)
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Re: Presti's Tree Reaches DC: The Official Will Dawkins Thread 

Post#204 » by nate33 » Wed Apr 23, 2025 2:40 pm

payitforward wrote:I think that's a well-considered rendition of their record, tho I do differ with you in a few places:

1. I thought the Beal trade was outstanding! I couldn't believe the haul of draft capital we got for him!
2. The Kuzma trade -- surely, this is looking better & better as the days & weeks pass :). I'm "blown away" in retrospect!
3. You pass over the acquisition of Colby Jones -- so far he's looking like an above average NBA player, & he's still only 22. It's NOT easy to add young guys like that to your roster.

Obviously, nate, it's the Avdija & Porzingis transactions that stick in your craw. It's easy to see why in the case of Deni -- less so (for me at least) in re: Porzingis.

You also pass over the Alex Sarr pick in silence. :)

The Beal trade certainly turned out to be fantastic for us. My lack of effusive praise was mostly because I think anyone would have made that trade. Perhaps there was some brilliant brinkmanship in the transaction that allowed us to come away with that SRP haul, but I suspect the negotiation was: "Give us all you have left of your remaining assets and we'll give you Beal", and their dumb owner took the deal.

I think management's real impact on the Beal deal is the part where they turned Chris Paul into Jordan Poole. I don't hate the move, but I don't really love it either. Could we have gotten more for Paul if we kept him for a while? Maybe. It does appear that Jordan Poole has a positive effect in the locker room with his work ethic, so that's something.

The Kuzma trade is looking good, but I felt all along that Kuzma was worth a FRP and an expiring and that's basically what we got. It's pretty much the same deal that Dallas was offering. I certainly don't characterize the deal as a squandering of an asset like I do the Deni deal, but I also don't really consider it a home run either. I guess I'm not factoring that they managed to dump Kuzma AFTER he stunk up the joint for 50 games this season. Trading Kuzma for that return last summer should have been fairly easy, but pulling off the trade in February is indeed more impressive.

I don't think Colby Jones is going to amount to anything. He turns 23 in a month and hasn't really done anything in two seasons except put up mediocre numbers in garbage time.
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Re: Presti's Tree Reaches DC: The Official Will Dawkins Thread 

Post#205 » by Kanyewest » Wed Apr 23, 2025 4:30 pm

payitforward wrote:I think that's a well-considered rendition of their record, tho I do differ with you in a few places:

1. I thought the Beal trade was outstanding! I couldn't believe the haul of draft capital we got for him!
2. The Kuzma trade -- surely, this is looking better & better as the days & weeks pass :). I'm "blown away" in retrospect!
3. You pass over the acquisition of Colby Jones -- so far he's looking like an above average NBA player, & he's still only 22. It's NOT easy to add young guys like that to your roster.

Obviously, nate, it's the Avdija & Porzingis transactions that stick in your craw. It's easy to see why in the case of Deni -- less so (for me at least) in re: Porzingis.

You also pass over the Alex Sarr pick in silence. :)



Yeah the Beal trade is looking much better than I initially thought with Phoenix coming down in flames. I like the Wizards strategy of getting future picks and swaps that could be in the top 10. Plus Jordan Poole seemed to have a bounce back season, granted he is still flawed but certainly paid less than Beal and more movable with his smaller/no trade clause.
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Re: Presti's Tree Reaches DC: The Official Will Dawkins Thread 

Post#206 » by Silvie Lysandra » Wed Apr 23, 2025 6:28 pm

I think the issue with the Deni trade comes down to:

- How much you value tanking the next 2 seasons versus getting more assets
- How much you think we could have "hidden" Deni's impact on wins and losses (and a big component of that would be that more Deni minutes means less minutes for Kuzma

If you'd rather have gotten more value for Deni, then you have to accept the possibility of keeping him on the roster going into the season, which feeds into 2. Maybe we get an extra mid round or late lottery draft pick in 2026? But it decreases our odds of getting the real prizes of this draft.

If you'd rather have kept Deni for the long term, then you have to accept the possibility that (especially if you unload Kuzma) he leads you to a season that looks more like the Nets than it does the, well, Wizards. Other teams are trying to tank too.

In a vacuum, we didn't get enough assets for Deni. But in my opinion, if our goal was "tank at all costs in 2025", then we actually were losing leverage every day, because Deni is the kind of asset that is VERY valuable to a team that wants to win games (insanely productive player on a value contract), but its not very useful to a team that wants to lose them.

We could have played more hardball with KP, but it's one of those things that players and their agents do not dig. Getting back a few extra assets is nice but having those positive player relationships has an value all its own that is hard to measure. We just got the short end of the stick with how Shep and Ted ran the team at the end of the day.
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Re: Presti's Tree Reaches DC: The Official Will Dawkins Thread 

Post#207 » by doclinkin » Wed Apr 23, 2025 9:12 pm

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:I think that's a well-considered rendition of their record, tho I do differ with you in a few places:

1. I thought the Beal trade was outstanding! I couldn't believe the haul of draft capital we got for him!


The Beal trade certainly turned out to be fantastic for us. My lack of effusive praise was mostly because I think anyone would have made that trade. Perhaps there was some brilliant brinkmanship in the transaction that allowed us to come away with that SRP haul, but I suspect the negotiation was: "Give us all you have left of your remaining assets and we'll give you Beal", and their dumb owner took the deal.

I think management's real impact on the Beal deal is the part where they turned Chris Paul into Jordan Poole. I don't hate the move, but I don't really love it either. Could we have gotten more for Paul if we kept him for a while? Maybe. It does appear that Jordan Poole has a positive effect in the locker room with his work ethic, so that's something.


I think the foresight to leverage the pick swaps from PHX is the potential hidden gem of the deal and I said so at the time. It was predictable that they were vulnerable for the wheels to come off quickly, based on injury history and lack of depth.
In addition we sold them a poison pill in the Beal contract which would make it nearly impossible for them to build a team around them. They made the fanboard mistake of expecting that a players numbers instantly translate without regard to chemistry or role. Three high usage on-ball scorers do not equal a championship.

At the time doubters suggested that we wouldn't be better than the Suns therefore the pick swap wouldn't matter. To the contrary, that was the moment I realized this office is crazy like a fox. That given the flattened lotto odds, a pick swap is like being given half the roll of tickets at a raffle. Somebody has to win, but you have more chances to win than anyone else. The revelation of that trade showed they are gaming the math of the draft. Yes you have to get lucky, but they are tilting the luck in their favor at every step of the process.

All the charts show that your best odds of a HOF player are at the top of the draft. The higher you go, the better your hit rate. Its not foolproof, just more likely. In consolidating 2nds into firsts, in selling 2nds to move higher in the 1st round, in bargaining for pick swaps, they are climbing the probability ladder. And they are ruthless with it, will not sacrifice even the smallest slip in %'s as though it doesn't matter, since over time all those %'s add up.

This was a point we differed on the Deni trade. You agreed in another thread that Deni was worth a 15 game swing for the Blazers. But elsewhere argued that he would not have affected the Wiz draft position. That we could have gotten more for him if we kept him and he played well. But could have hidden those extra wins from affecting our lotto odds. This year at least. And oh well on next year. Even if that means we lose a lottery pick to New York.

To this front office, there is no oh well when it comes to the long game. They want every possible % to grab the franchise changing talent at the top of the draft boards. At least for as long as their pick is encumbered.

The argument on Deni is, okay they could have gotten another first round pick for him. Or pick a prize. But nobody would be giving up an unprotected lottery pick for him. SO the question is whether whatever return we might have gotten for Deni going to be better than whatever we get from this year's draft AND next year's draft. Deni is good early. We needed to be bad early to be good later. We needed the empty stats of players like Kuzma and Poole to ensure it. Not the demonstrated +/- champion that Deni has been. Because more Deni means less Kuzma. That was becoming more and more clear. So instead we traded for the perpetually injured Brogdon, and swapped out Deni in favor of making Kuzma our tank captain team captain. Likewise this is an underestimated aspect of the Jordan Poole trade. CP3 makes every team better. Poole is a young inefficient gunner who will put up spectacular numbers in a loss. He can make losing look fun. That was clear even next to Stef Curry, he will put up numbers on offense when he has the ball and give them back everywhere else. Helps us lose and look like we are trying not to.

Remains to be seen if it works. This year. And next year it could work spectacularly well, since we could both stink enough to get a top 8 pick AND get all of the Suns lotto combinations in a year when they will probably be forced to ship Durant, or possibly Durant + Booker both and start over. With Beal's no trade clause still acting as a house arrest bracelet on their ability to make moves.

I say lets see how we make out after the 2026 season before we really can judge their vision. But the Beal deal was the part where it became clear to me exactly what they are playing for. Yes we had to ship him. Nice that we were loading up on 2nd round picks to follow the PIF thought experiment of drafting every player in both rounds to have a 100% chance of landing the best player in any draft :clown: But better still to invest heavily in the long term failure of a team that is showing a lack of foresight. In before the Ishbia Rule.
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Re: Presti's Tree Reaches DC: The Official Will Dawkins Thread 

Post#208 » by doclinkin » Wed Apr 23, 2025 9:19 pm

Silvie Lysandra wrote:I think the issue with the Deni trade comes down to:

- How much you value tanking the next 2 seasons versus getting more assets
- How much you think we could have "hidden" Deni's impact on wins and losses (and a big component of that would be that more Deni minutes means less minutes for Kuzma

If you'd rather have gotten more value for Deni, then you have to accept the possibility of keeping him on the roster going into the season, which feeds into 2. Maybe we get an extra mid round or late lottery draft pick in 2026? But it decreases our odds of getting the real prizes of this draft.



Magnified by the fact that we lose our pick to New York in 2026 if it is not top 8. So say we did successfully bury the extra wins Deni earned us. Say we luck into Cooper Flagg. We run with Deni + Flagg + year 3 Bilal + year 2 Sarr + Kyshawn off the bench.

The defensive potential on that team is through the roof. In a year when many teams will be tanking since the draft is deeper. Is there zero chance we win enough games to fall out of the top 8?

Because if we do we also lose out on the pick swap with the Suns.

Me I'd rather have a chance at Flagg + Dybantsa/Ament/Peterson/Arenas/Dash Daniels etc. Than have Deni and maybe a top pick this year, but watch another team select a superstar next year that could have been ours.
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Re: Presti's Tree Reaches DC: The Official Will Dawkins Thread 

Post#209 » by doclinkin » Wed Apr 23, 2025 9:29 pm

nate33 wrote:I've been most impressed with their ability to create value out of seemingly nothing. These are the deals that I would have missed if I were running the Wizards so they impressed me more.

...

- Signing Jared Butler, developing him, and moving him plus SRP's for a FRP.
- Developing Justin Champagne


This is the part that has me most hopeful. Their ability to not only identify talent, but develop it. Because this means you can have more optimism on this aspect:

I'm happy with their draft record so far, but the jury is still out given the extremely young age of their picks. I think we will be in much better position to assess their draft record in another year or two. I really do think that Bilal, Bub and George will pan out to be value picks relative to their position, which is all you can hope for.


We are building a team out of our ability to coach development. To select raw talent with good attitude and mindset, then coach them up into productive skilled players who can maximize that talent. Yes they will trade out players after they build that value, but they are always keeping an eye on upgrading the upside. Searching for stars.

I'd even count Deni as a partial plus in this column. They took a young player whose confidence was in question and put him in position to maximize what he does well. To turn Deni into Turbo and let him run. He flourished under this group, after suffering under prior staffs. Okay they did ship him, we can argue if they got enough, but his breakout can be partially credited to their developmental program.
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Re: Presti's Tree Reaches DC: The Official Will Dawkins Thread 

Post#210 » by leswizards » Fri Apr 25, 2025 12:57 pm

All the Wizards first round picks under this new regime have to show considerable progress or they might all end up being busts. Everyone talks about the 3 point shot in the modern nba, but there are really 2 parts to the modern nba: the 3 point shot and points in the paint. Almost all of the wizards young players are below average in these areas, and all of the wizards first round picks under this new regime are below average in those 2 areas. The league average 3p% and 2p% are .360 and .545. The only young wizards shooting above average in those areas are Justin champagne and Tristan Vukcevic in both 2p% and 3p%, and Colby Jones in the 2p%.

Take Alex Sarr as an example: ~30% of his shots are from 3 to 10 feet, and ~41% of his fga are 3PA. Yet, he only shoots 36% and 31% from those areas.
Viva le tank! At this pace, it will never end.
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Re: Presti's Tree Reaches DC: The Official Will Dawkins Thread 

Post#211 » by nate33 » Fri Apr 25, 2025 1:58 pm

leswizards wrote:All the Wizards first round picks under this new regime have to show considerable progress or they might all end up being busts. Everyone talks about the 3 point shot in the modern nba, but there are really 2 parts to the modern nba: the 3 point shot and points in the paint. Almost all of the wizards young players are below average in these areas, and all of the wizards first round picks under this new regime are below average in those 2 areas. The league average 3p% and 2p% are .360 and .545. The only young wizards shooting above average in those areas are Justin champagne and Tristan Vukcevic in both 2p% and 3p%, and Colby Jones in the 2p%.

Take Alex Sarr as an example: ~30% of his shots are from 3 to 10 feet, and ~41% of his fga are 3PA. Yet, he only shoots 36% and 31% from those areas.

Our first round picks (other than George) are all extremely young. The guys you listed who are above average in 2P% also happen to be the guys who are 22+ years old. Finishing at the rim takes strength and an understanding of how to draw fouls under NBA rules. It takes a little time to figure that out.

Also, that .545 league average number presumably includes a lot of 2P shots from big men who shoot at a higher percentage. If you compare Bub's .475 2P% to just guards, AJ's .486 2P% to guards, and Bilal's .500 2P% to just forwards, I'd bet they're not that far below the average. And they're close enough that the difference will likely be made up with expected improvement given their extreme young age.

I'd say it's fair to be concerned about Kyshawn's extremely low 2P% of just .464 given his size and the fact that he is already 21. It may mean that Kyshawn projects out to be merely a low usage 3&D guy, but that's not exactly a disappointment. The guy was a late draft pick. If he pans out to be a quality role player instead of a high usage offense-driver, I'm still happy.

Sarr is really the guy that I'm concerned about. His abysmal .454 2P% is very alarming for a 7-footer. It has to improve a whole lot before he can be a plus player on offense. Obviously, he is very young and still growing into his frame, so it's not like there's no hope. But if he disappoints as an NBA player, his 2P% is likely to be the primary reason. This isn't really news to anyone though. All season long, the big complaint about Sarr is his touch around the basket and his lack of rebounding.
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Re: Presti's Tree Reaches DC: The Official Will Dawkins Thread 

Post#212 » by doclinkin » Fri Apr 25, 2025 2:47 pm

leswizards wrote:All the Wizards first round picks under this new regime have to show considerable progress or they might all end up being busts. Everyone talks about the 3 point shot in the modern nba, but there are really 2 parts to the modern nba: the 3 point shot and points in the paint. Almost all of the wizards young players are below average in these areas, and all of the wizards first round picks under this new regime are below average in those 2 areas. The league average 3p% and 2p% are .360 and .545. The only young wizards shooting above average in those areas are Justin champagne and Tristan Vukcevic in both 2p% and 3p%, and Colby Jones in the 2p%.

Take Alex Sarr as an example: ~30% of his shots are from 3 to 10 feet, and ~41% of his fga are 3PA. Yet, he only shoots 36% and 31% from those areas.


Not too worried about them becoming "busts". Each has holes in their game but all showed flashes of high level play. The thing to remember is how young they all are, even as rookies. Bub and Alex were born in 2005. Bilal in 2004. Those are babies. You have brand new babies barely out of diapers playing against grownass professional athletes. You have to figure as they get bigger and stronger they will develop the physical part of the game.

Meanwhile it makes sense to look at what they do well. Bub Carrington.
Spoiler:
Bub has shown a well developed midrange game and stretches of highly efficient play. In a dozen games in February he was in the elite 50/40/90 club. Doesn't matter where you get your points from if they are that efficient. He projects to be a solid floor captain for the team as well. Rookie PGs tend to give the ball up trying to force things. Bub posted stingy numbers of turnovers while carrying a solid assist rate. An assist rate where he was passing the ball to players that did shoot inefficiently as you point out. Next to Jordan Poole who has no catch-and-shoot game since he prefers to dribble a few times before he puts it up (negating the assist). Have to figure with shooters and finishers around him Bubs assist numbers will improve over time.

Agreed he needs to develop a shot in that close range, shooting poorly from 3-10', but given that he doesn't have an explosive first step etc you don't really expect him to live in the paint or force fouls on opponents that way. His 60% shooting from mid-range is an elite skill. Same scoring % as when he gets to the rim. Likewise his high %'s from long two is among the tops in the league. Evidence of smart reads and good accurate shooting. More than anything I want Bub simply to increase his accuracy & range from outside the 3 line and back. Fortunately as he gets that grown muscle his range is likely to increase without forcing it. His accurate and balanced jumper in closer ranges will likely translate as he moves it back.

Along with this I want him working with a good Pick and Roll big, which will make his long range shot and pull-up from mid-range more of a weapon. Teams will have to decide if they want to stop the 60% jumper or the 4/5 rolling to the paint. But that's more to the development of his leadership game. Teammates seem to look to him for energy and focus already, as he improves his game in this way he will be better able to influence the action by directing it. That comes with experience and hopefully success. He's got a head start though. Players and coaches cite him as being one of the smartest cats on the team and he has shown his metal in tough situations. Consider how he performed this season playing all 82 games and more minutes than any rookie, top 30 in the NBA one of only a dozen players to play every game, all while carrying the heavy load of his father dying from cancer. Not too worried about Bub.
Kid is mentally strong, smart, loves the game, he is going to improve.

Kyshawn.
Spoiler:
Like Bub he scores efficiently when he can get to the hoop. But his average athleticism doesn't let him blow past players to get there. That said, also like Bub, he is at the tall end of a growth spurt. Hasn't slowed down enough to put on big boy muscle. He said team doctors over the summer told him his growth plates are still open. That he could top out at 6'10". With guard skills. Smart, tough, savvy, and still growing. Literally in his case. That is the model of the players this team selects. You have no idea where that ends up, but you know they will get better than they are today.

Okay he started out atrocious from 3pt land. A skill he was supposed to excel at. But he never lacked for confidence. Kept gunning. By the end of the year he dragged his percentages up to a respectable number. Meanwhile his defense was a revelation. Key shows up on the leaderboards of a number of defensive measures. Deflections, 3 pointers challenged, lowest opponent 3pt FG%, etc. Not just among rookies, among all players. This was supposed to be a weakness of his game, but it is a focus of coach BK.
The fact that 3-shawn became D-shawn over the course of his rookie season speaks to his coachability, smarts, growth. A playable 6'10" 3&D wing with guard skills is a nice player to have. You want to see more of the same.

Sarr.
Spoiler:
I dunno. I didn't like him in the draft. My doubts show up in his play style as a rookie. What I have to give credit to though is his attitude. Kid was crushed by media and pundits alike. But he has been steady in his behavior and approach to the game his entire year. Lampooned nationally, he still kept shooting, still worked hard. Over the course of the season he has won my support in this way. He doesn't crumple under pressure. Doesn't rattle. Keeps working. I don't think he will ever be a dominant interior scorer. I doubt his hands will improve much. I don't think rebounding will be a major strength. But he is tall and nimble and passes well. He defends the perimeter surprisingly well for a 4/5. His weakside shot blocking is excellent. I'm willing to let him continue to develop as a stretch Big, to keep shooting 3's, to develop his jumper, and see what other parts of his game come with growth. The potential and upside are still remarkable.
What other players in the league have both blocked Wemby and dunked on him? Who knows where that tops out given time.
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Re: Presti's Tree Reaches DC: The Official Will Dawkins Thread 

Post#213 » by payitforward » Fri Apr 25, 2025 2:58 pm

Excellent points being made on both sides of each issue for each player. Truth is... who the h#ll knows? Next year is when the steep slope of improvement will be expected to show some real results.
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Re: Presti's Tree Reaches DC: The Official Will Dawkins Thread 

Post#214 » by leswizards » Sun Apr 27, 2025 4:39 pm

The first round picks for this regime are not just below average 2pa and 3PA shooters against league average, but are also below average shooters versus similar positional players. Not only that, but they have some of the lowest 2p% and 3p% in the league.

Bilal has 1 season left to improve his shooting. If not, the Wizards may be throwing good money after bad for player who is potentially not capable of being a competent nba shooter, or they may have admit that they made a mistake.

All the other players have 2 seasons to improve their shots.
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Re: Presti's Tree Reaches DC: The Official Will Dawkins Thread 

Post#215 » by payitforward » Sun Apr 27, 2025 4:41 pm

Can't be denied....
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Re: Presti's Tree Reaches DC: The Official Will Dawkins Thread 

Post#216 » by TGW » Tue May 13, 2025 4:35 pm

A bunch of singles and no home runs.

Traded Deni for the right to the 6th pick and some middling prospects.

So far, not impressed with this front office at all. Just because they are marginally better at drafting (and that has yet to really be proven, as Shep's draft picks are still better than Dawkins, but time will tell) doesn't make them better than their predecessors. Hell, Grunfeld's rebuilds looked better in retrospect than this one. At least he hit with Arenas, Butler,and Jamison in his rebuild.

This is just an exercise in futility for the sake of accumulating a bunch of draft picks. At some point, the draft picks have to produce or show that they have something special and they haven't. None of them are special.

So far, #soWizards
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Presti's Tree Reaches DC: The Official Will Dawkins Thread 

Post#217 » by FAH1223 » Tue May 13, 2025 5:14 pm

TGW wrote:A bunch of singles and no home runs.

Traded Deni for the right to the 6th pick and some middling prospects.

So far, not impressed with this front office at all. Just because they are marginally better at drafting (and that has yet to really be proven, as Shep's draft picks are still better than Dawkins, but time will tell) doesn't make them better than their predecessors. Hell, Grunfeld's rebuilds looked better in retrospect than this one. At least he hit with Arenas, Butler,and Jamison in his rebuild.

This is just an exercise in futility for the sake of accumulating a bunch of draft picks. At some point, the draft picks have to produce or show that they have something special and they haven't. None of them are special.

So far, #soWizards


If Grunfeld were still here, he'd be trading the 6th pick for Jordan Clarkson and Collin Sexton.

You are judging a GM who hasn't even been on the job for 2 calendar years. There is cause to be concern about the young guys offensive efficiency. But they all have good measurables, competitiveness, and great attitudes. I have no complaints. We all wanted a rebuild and we wanted people who have been in organizations that have done some sort of winning at sustained rates.
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Re: Presti's Tree Reaches DC: The Official Will Dawkins Thread 

Post#218 » by TGW » Tue May 13, 2025 6:04 pm

FAH1223 wrote:
TGW wrote:A bunch of singles and no home runs.

Traded Deni for the right to the 6th pick and some middling prospects.

So far, not impressed with this front office at all. Just because they are marginally better at drafting (and that has yet to really be proven, as Shep's draft picks are still better than Dawkins, but time will tell) doesn't make them better than their predecessors. Hell, Grunfeld's rebuilds looked better in retrospect than this one. At least he hit with Arenas, Butler,and Jamison in his rebuild.

This is just an exercise in futility for the sake of accumulating a bunch of draft picks. At some point, the draft picks have to produce or show that they have something special and they haven't. None of them are special.

So far, #soWizards


If Grunfeld were still here, he'd be trading the 6th pick for Jordan Clarkson and Collin Sexton.

You are judging a GM who hasn't even been on the job for 2 calendar years. There is cause to be concern about the young guys offensive efficiency. But they all have good measurables, competitiveness, and great attitudes. I have no complaints. We all wanted a rebuild and we wanted people who have been in organizations that have done some sort of winning at sustained rates.


Yea, but they're not good basketball players, hell they have a ton of improvement to reach average. I was being told we traded a really good player for a chance at a home run, and it looks like they're getting more of the same...base hit single.

Dawkins is going into year three, with 9 picks that he drafted. If he can't hit one franchise player in 9 tries at bat, I think it's safe to assume he's not the draft guru he's being touted as. Just saying, FAH. I think the guys on this board collectively could do better if given 9 at bats.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Presti's Tree Reaches DC: The Official Will Dawkins Thread 

Post#219 » by willbcocks » Tue May 13, 2025 6:12 pm

The thing is right now he's 0 for 0. None of the players have finished an at-bat yet. All the counts are probably even and could go either way. Sure there haven't been any first pitch home runs, but that's not the only type of home run in this league, and first pitch home runs, like flagg or wembamyama, are largely out of your control.
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Re: Presti's Tree Reaches DC: The Official Will Dawkins Thread 

Post#220 » by payitforward » Tue May 13, 2025 6:22 pm

I've been meaning to get back to this...
nate33 wrote:...I think management's real impact on the Beal deal is the part where they turned Chris Paul into Jordan Poole. I don't hate the move, but I don't really love it either. Could we have gotten more for Paul if we kept him for a while?....

Whatever we could have gotten for him, you'd have to think GS could have gotten the same for him once he wound up over there, right?

Now go look at what GS got for Chris Paul. Answer is: nothing. They got nothing. His contract expired, & he signed with San Antonio as a FA.

Conclusion: we couldn't have gotten any more than GS did. I.e. for better or worse the CP3 for Jordan Poole deal was quite a good one.

Don't get me wrong: there are plenty of teams for whom that wouldn't have been a good deal. But we had no salary on the books!

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