What is the plan here?

[Scase]

Most important of all, we have a coaching staff that's great at developing players unlike prior years under Nurse. Juries out on whether they can win in playoffs but i expect continual growth organically

The same coaching staff with Nurse that resulted in FVV, Siakam, Norm, Scottie, OG and the list goes on? I like Darko, I actually have little to no issues with the coaching staff when it comes to development.

But we have the majority of the roster made up of guys that are 6-10 years into their career, one or 2 players that have a reasonable ceiling above them, and a bunch of SRPs that would be lucky if they ended their careers as solid bench players. The only player with genuine growth ahead of him is Scottie, and even he has been showing a massive lack of upper potential.

The team is going to result in a bunch of mid tier guys, which if they can be packaged and flipped into a really good player, that's a good outcome. But if you haven't noticed for the last, 10-20 years, those players don't ever want to come here, and when they are forced here, they leave at the first possible chance.

What we are building right now has an exceedingly low chance of actually panning out. What it has a high chance of, is a mid to high 40's win team that is just fodder for the real teams. This is just the Siakam/FVV era 2.0, tread water and hope for some massive star trade, except that treading of water prevented us from accumulating the required assets to be in the convo for those trades, and still have a team worth having that player on. KD, Giannis, and basically every other big name player that has been "gettable" in the last 6 or so years.

Organic growth only makes sense in a vacuum, every other team in the league gets to do that too.

you see a siakam/fvv era 2.0, i see a lowry/derozan era 2.0, time will tell which direction this team goes

I'm curious, what gives you that expectation? Who is who in that scenario, cause no one on this roster has the age(youth) or the glimpses of talent that DD had in his first couple of years. I can see the Lowry/Scottie comp, but the DD one? Not a soul on the team IMO.

[Godaddycurse]

The same coaching staff with Nurse that resulted in FVV, Siakam, Norm, Scottie, OG and the list goes on? I like Darko, I actually have little to no issues with the coaching staff when it comes to development.

But we have the majority of the roster made up of guys that are 6-10 years into their career, one or 2 players that have a reasonable ceiling above them, and a bunch of SRPs that would be lucky if they ended their careers as solid bench players. The only player with genuine growth ahead of him is Scottie, and even he has been showing a massive lack of upper potential.

The team is going to result in a bunch of mid tier guys, which if they can be packaged and flipped into a really good player, that's a good outcome. But if you haven't noticed for the last, 10-20 years, those players don't ever want to come here, and when they are forced here, they leave at the first possible chance.

What we are building right now has an exceedingly low chance of actually panning out. What it has a high chance of, is a mid to high 40's win team that is just fodder for the real teams. This is just the Siakam/FVV era 2.0, tread water and hope for some massive star trade, except that treading of water prevented us from accumulating the required assets to be in the convo for those trades, and still have a team worth having that player on. KD, Giannis, and basically every other big name player that has been "gettable" in the last 6 or so years.

Organic growth only makes sense in a vacuum, every other team in the league gets to do that too.

you see a siakam/fvv era 2.0, i see a lowry/derozan era 2.0, time will tell which direction this team goes

I'm curious, what gives you that expectation? Who is who in that scenario, cause no one on this roster has the age(youth) or the glimpses of talent that DD had in his first couple of years. I can see the Lowry/Scottie comp, but the DD one? Not a soul on the team IMO.

RJ is probably closest to the DD comp. similar warts and age and all.

[Scase]

you see a siakam/fvv era 2.0, i see a lowry/derozan era 2.0, time will tell which direction this team goes

I'm curious, what gives you that expectation? Who is who in that scenario, cause no one on this roster has the age(youth) or the glimpses of talent that DD had in his first couple of years. I can see the Lowry/Scottie comp, but the DD one? Not a soul on the team IMO.

RJ is probably closest to the DD comp. similar warts and age and all.

My issue with the RJ comp is that his age is less important than his time in the league, experience tends to be the real defining factor, it's why you don't ever really see 4 year college players ever come into the league and them make massive jumps. RJ is going into year 7, DD made his first ASG by year 5, and a year younger than RJ will be next year. Guys don't take the big leaps due to just being young, but it's because there are so many things they can learn and improve on with their time in the league, I expect RJ to improve, but incremental stuff, not jumps.

[Vampirate]

1) Hope like hell BI gives you 65+ games.
2) Hope like hell Scottie takes a leap.
3) Hope like hell that they nail the 9th pick.
4) Hope like hell that Gradey becomes good.
5) Hope like hell that all of last year's draftees improve noticeably.

Mainly lots of hope lol. Still better than where we were at this time last year or the year prior, IMO.

If all that happens, we're talking about being a 50 win team

So essentially we're heading to be play in team/first round fodder until we truly blow it up unless we get really lucky somewhere.

[earthtone]

I'm curious, what gives you that expectation? Who is who in that scenario, cause no one on this roster has the age(youth) or the glimpses of talent that DD had in his first couple of years. I can see the Lowry/Scottie comp, but the DD one? Not a soul on the team IMO.

RJ is probably closest to the DD comp. similar warts and age and all.

My issue with the RJ comp is that his age is less important than his time in the league, experience tends to be the real defining factor, it's why you don't ever really see 4 year college players ever come into the league and them make massive jumps. RJ is going into year 7, DD made his first ASG by year 5, and a year younger than RJ will be next year. Guys don't take the big leaps due to just being young, but it's because there are so many things they can learn and improve on with their time in the league, I expect RJ to improve, but incremental stuff, not jumps.

We've got a guy named Brandon Ingram who I'd say is as good, if not better than DeRozan at the same age.

[Godaddycurse]

I'm curious, what gives you that expectation? Who is who in that scenario, cause no one on this roster has the age(youth) or the glimpses of talent that DD had in his first couple of years. I can see the Lowry/Scottie comp, but the DD one? Not a soul on the team IMO.

RJ is probably closest to the DD comp. similar warts and age and all.

My issue with the RJ comp is that his age is less important than his time in the league, experience tends to be the real defining factor, it's why you don't ever really see 4 year college players ever come into the league and them make massive jumps. RJ is going into year 7, DD made his first ASG by year 5, and a year younger than RJ will be next year. Guys don't take the big leaps due to just being young, but it's because there are so many things they can learn and improve on with their time in the league, I expect RJ to improve, but incremental stuff, not jumps.

He's already made significant improvements from his NYK days in the past year+. I think there is still more room for improvement, esp on defense

[YogurtProducer]

But we have the majority of the roster made up of guys that are 6-10 years into their career, one or 2 players that have a reasonable ceiling above them,

We have 4 guys who are 6 years into their career. Temple who is not a core piece, Boucher who might not even be here, and then Ingram and Poeltl. It is like so easy to double check these things and yet you insist on spreading BS instead.

and a bunch of SRPs that would be lucky if they ended their careers as solid bench players.

We have Shead, Mogbo, and Chomche as 2nd round selections. Is that a "bunch" or any higher than any other NBA team?

The only player with genuine growth ahead of him is Scottie, and even he has been showing a massive lack of upper potential.

Huh. Glad to know we can write off our 39 pick already. Same with Dick, Walter, etc. who also showed growth through 2 years.

The team is going to result in a bunch of mid tier guys, which if they can be packaged and flipped into a really good player, that's a good outcome. But if you haven't noticed for the last, 10-20 years, those players don't ever want to come here, and when they are forced here, they leave at the first possible chance.

Again, you have no clue what they are going to result in. Scottie could take leap to be a yearly all-star caliber guy and it really is not hard to see how that could happen. Not to mention it is not crazy to think the 9th pick in a strong class could be an all-star caliber guy himself.

What we are building right now has an exceedingly low chance of actually panning out. What it has a high chance of, is a mid to high 40's win team that is just fodder for the real teams. This is just the Siakam/FVV era 2.0, tread water and hope for some massive star trade, except that treading of water prevented us from accumulating the required assets to be in the convo for those trades, and still have a team worth having that player on. KD, Giannis, and basically every other big name player that has been "gettable" in the last 6 or so years.

Every team building route has a very low chance of panning out. A "high chance of mid to high 40's wins" is one of the better outcomes any rebuild can hope for.

You have ZERO clue how the next 5 years will look. Everything you are saying now is exactly what people could have said about Toronto 10 years ago (how did that turn out). Or the 2014 - 2018 Bucks who won 41-44 games 3 times in that span. Or a number of teams by your logic should have been blown up who ended up winning and being successful.

Just admit you speak in absolutes but have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

Organic growth only makes sense in a vacuum, every other team in the league gets to do that too.

Every other team can tank to. Yet very few do. Weird.

[PushDaRock]

We have an incoming #9 pick, Jakobe who showed out a bit to end the year, IQ who still has not played a full season as a starting PG, Scottie Barnes who is an all-star and is 23 years old, etc.

We absolutely do not have a bunch of known quantities. Guys dont stop improving at 24 years old just because you say so.

Most important of all, we have a coaching staff that's great at developing players unlike prior years under Nurse. Juries out on whether they can win in playoffs but i expect continual growth organically

The same coaching staff with Nurse that resulted in FVV, Siakam, Norm, Scottie, OG and the list goes on? I like Darko, I actually have little to no issues with the coaching staff when it comes to development.

But we have the majority of the roster made up of guys that are 6-10 years into their career, one or 2 players that have a reasonable ceiling above them, and a bunch of SRPs that would be lucky if they ended their careers as solid bench players. The only player with genuine growth ahead of him is Scottie, and even he has been showing a massive lack of upper potential.

The team is going to result in a bunch of mid tier guys, which if they can be packaged and flipped into a really good player, that's a good outcome. But if you haven't noticed for the last, 10-20 years, those players don't ever want to come here, and when they are forced here, they leave at the first possible chance.

What we are building right now has an exceedingly low chance of actually panning out. What it has a high chance of, is a mid to high 40's win team that is just fodder for the real teams. This is just the Siakam/FVV era 2.0, tread water and hope for some massive star trade, except that treading of water prevented us from accumulating the required assets to be in the convo for those trades, and still have a team worth having that player on. KD, Giannis, and basically every other big name player that has been "gettable" in the last 6 or so years.

Organic growth only makes sense in a vacuum, every other team in the league gets to do that too.

lol wait what? weren't you whining about how our coaching staff was developing Scottie all year long?

[Vampirate]

I'm curious, what gives you that expectation? Who is who in that scenario, cause no one on this roster has the age(youth) or the glimpses of talent that DD had in his first couple of years. I can see the Lowry/Scottie comp, but the DD one? Not a soul on the team IMO.

RJ is probably closest to the DD comp. similar warts and age and all.

My issue with the RJ comp is that his age is less important than his time in the league, experience tends to be the real defining factor, it's why you don't ever really see 4 year college players ever come into the league and them make massive jumps. RJ is going into year 7, DD made his first ASG by year 5, and a year younger than RJ will be next year. Guys don't take the big leaps due to just being young, but it's because there are so many things they can learn and improve on with their time in the league, I expect RJ to improve, but incremental stuff, not jumps.

Demar's career playoff stats are

.418% FG, 21.4% 3P, (85.2% FT on 5.8/6.8 FT's a game, literally his only good stat), 4.7 TRB, 3.7 Ast, 1.1 Stl, 2.3 TO

he averages 21.8 PPG on 18.8 shots for a .502 TS

Demar is one of the worst playoff performers, in history, i'm as bleak on our upcoming future as anyone but i'd take just about anyone on our roster over Demar, including RJ.

[WuTang_CMB]

1) Hope like hell BI gives you 65+ games.
2) Hope like hell Scottie takes a leap.
3) Hope like hell that they nail the 9th pick.
4) Hope like hell that Gradey becomes good.
5) Hope like hell that all of last year's draftees improve noticeably.

Mainly lots of hope lol. Still better than where we were at this time last year or the year prior, IMO.

[ciueli]

The plan is to compete in a weak Eastern Conference.

Let's be real, even with all the injuries this team probably could have made the play-in this season if they had wanted to, they just preferred to tank and get a top 10 pick instead. Looking forward, teams like the Hawks, Bulls, and Heat aren't in great shape and seem very beatable next season, if Giannis gets sent to the Spurs or another West team that makes the East even weaker and a playoff spot is likely with good injury luck, even without that the Bucks are old and running out of talent due to selling off key players and draft picks in poorly thought out moves.

Even some of the teams at the top aren't on the upswing. The Celtics are going to start losing pieces of their core starting next year as their team gets very expensive, the Cavs are going to have to decide which player they shed to avoid punishing taxes, taking on that Hunter contract was a huge mistake, the Knicks will be in a similar situation soon enough with a new contract extension to Mikal Bridges. Thibs runs their starters into the ground so injuries are inevitable. This is the time to compete and increase the value of our players, that opens up trade possibilities, if a star player becomes available we have the contracts, young players, and picks to make a move.

[raptorforlife88]

I'm curious, what gives you that expectation? Who is who in that scenario, cause no one on this roster has the age(youth) or the glimpses of talent that DD had in his first couple of years. I can see the Lowry/Scottie comp, but the DD one? Not a soul on the team IMO.

I think this may be overstating DD a bit. I think Ingram is fairly close to DD although I'd still say DD is better for sure. And the depth behind that with Quick, RJ, Poeltl is certainly miles ahead what the early we the north era teams had to work with. Those teams were very rough looking back at the rosters until we nailed a few drafts in a row for our depth (and obviously didn't blossom for a while after). Derozan's raw numbers were always better than his actual impact and we've seen that play out a bit across various teams in his career now.

I think the Lowry/Scottie comp is actually why this Raptors team would not be as good. Peak Kyle Lowry was impact wise a top 15 player in the league (or higher depending on measure).

If Scottie is ever as good as peak Lowry I will tell you this team will be fine with the depth it has. Scottie being not yet close to peak Lowry is why they won't be and are unlikely to be barring a jump from him.

[Raps in 4]

1) Hope like hell BI gives you 65+ games.
2) Hope like hell Scottie takes a leap.
3) Hope like hell that they nail the 9th pick.
4) Hope like hell that Gradey becomes good.
5) Hope like hell that all of last year's draftees improve noticeably.

Mainly lots of hope lol. Still better than where we were at this time last year or the year prior, IMO.

If all that happens, we're talking about being a 50 win team

So essentially we're heading to be play in team/first round fodder until we truly blow it up unless we get really lucky somewhere.

We're about to have 3/4 or possibly even 4/4 conference finalists be in the range of 49-51 wins. There is a ton of parity in the league today. 50 wins makes you a contender. The era of super teams is over (until SAS or OKC trade for Giannis).

If just one of our players can elevate their game to top-15 levels, we are contenders. I'm not holding my breath, but it's not an impossibility either.

[DreamTeam09]

1) Hope like hell BI gives you 65+ games.
2) Hope like hell Scottie takes a leap.
3) Hope like hell that they nail the 9th pick.
4) Hope like hell that Gradey becomes good.
5) Hope like hell that all of last year's draftees improve noticeably.

Mainly lots of hope lol. Still better than where we were at this time last year or the year prior, IMO.

If all that happens, we're talking about being a 50 win team

So essentially we're heading to be play in team/first round fodder until we truly blow it up unless we get really lucky somewhere.

Wouldn't that apply to basically like 25-24 other teams in the NBA, the Celtics are about to blow it up & are basically forced into a rebuild ri now with 1 chip to show for years on years of 2 of the top 25ish player in the league
I guess y'all can be down on everything with the whole woe is my vibes but I'm on the other side of the fence that's all

[tsherkin]

Hmmm.

I'm not bullish on huge improvements from guys like RJ and Scottie. Incremental ones, I'm more apt to believe in, though. Like RJ shooting 70% or so at the line instead of being a 63% shooter there as he was this season. And clicking from the corner and moving well off-ball, passing well as he has this yer, etc. There are some structural issues with their games and tools which keep me skeptical of big leaps, particularly with time in-league already.

But we ARE adding BI, and honestly, even 50 games from a player like him would dramatically change what our offense looks like. We were the 6th-worst offense in the league last year, so adding a 23/5/5, 101 TS+ guy (as he has been from 2020 forward) is a pretty large deal, all told. Especially because he's a solid mid-80s shooter at the line and a quality 3pt shooter above the break who can create his own shot. And he adds another live-dribble creator for us, which is important, because we're short on those.

I'm hopefully Scottie will not be as spectacularly horrific as a scorer this season as he was this year and in 2023. I'm hopeful that having Quick and BI and RJ will take some of the load off, and he can just be a minorly-inefficient guy on somewhat lower volume. Little less time on-ball with Quick and BI back. And pending who we grab in the draft, I guess.

Poeltl's been good. Agbaji is interesting. Mogbo is interesting, if only as a defensive roleplayer right now. Gradey, Shead and Battle are all interesting as potential roleplayer contributors. And we looked good on D for over half the season. Yeah, some of that is influenced by tankers and the specific arrangement of our schedule and all that, but it's a straw at which to grasp. A boost into the high-teens on offense and a boost to maybe 13th to 15th on defense (conservatively, perhaps even better than that) would be pretty good for us. If we were, say, a +0.0 offense and a -0.5 defense, pending schedule, that paints a .500-ish picture. Not even a huge ask, all told.

In the beautiful scenario where we're healthy and things click pretty well and we're maybe more like a +2.0 net team, we could be looking at 46 wins or something like that, pending schedule and particulars.

After the last two seasons, I'd be fairly thrilled with that outcome, even if it doesn't have the makings of a title squad. Sometimes, it's nice just to not-suck.

[sidsid]

Using the RJ and Jak contracts with likely a chunk of our future picks for another guy. Not Giannis level. We're already up against the tax so that's the salary going out, if not IQs salary.

Maybe some big improvements from multiple guys, but more likely a mid-seed (east is now awful, so maybe higher) for a few years. Then have to start over in 4 years or look like the late stage DeRozan Bulls/Kings.

[720]

1) Hope like hell BI gives you 65+ games.
2) Hope like hell Scottie takes a leap.
3) Hope like hell that they nail the 9th pick.
4) Hope like hell that Gradey becomes good.
5) Hope like hell that all of last year's draftees improve noticeably.

Mainly lots of hope lol. Still better than where we were at this time last year or the year prior, IMO.

If all that happens, we're talking about being a 50 win team

So essentially we're heading to be play in team/first round fodder until we truly blow it up unless we get really lucky somewhere.

We set ourselves back by a few years by not starting to tank as soon as the Basketball Gods blessed us with the 4th pick. Should have traded Siakam, Fred, etc the end of the season after when it became clear they couldn’t lead a team. We got fooled by the fake wins that season (we had like 18 wins vs teams missing their stars due to injuries or covid).

[tsherkin]

If all that happens, we're talking about being a 50 win team

So essentially we're heading to be play in team/first round fodder until we truly blow it up unless we get really lucky somewhere.

We set ourselves back by a few years by not starting to tank as soon as the Basketball Gods blessed us with the 4th pick. Should have traded Siakam, Fred, etc the end of the season after when it became clear they couldn’t lead a team. We got fooled by the fake wins that season (we had like 18 wins vs teams missing their stars due to injuries or covid).

I think one of our problems is that we haven't actually been a particularly good offensive team in any season since the title year. That was the last time we were +1.0 or better on offense, and were +2.7. We've had varying degrees of success on D, but we've been mediocre or flat-out crap on offense for the past half-dozen years, and that's really impeding our ability to win games. In this, of all eras, that's been fairly sad. We've had some health issues, but we have consistently committed to guys who cannot score. We had four years of FVV shooting 14-17 FGA/g below league-average efficiency. Pascal struggled some for us until the trade year because we didn't have high-end playmaking and were average or slower than average in terms of team pace. Lowry aged out. 2022 was really ugly for that, with us as the 4th-worst team in the league by eFG%. And then I think everyone knows the score the past couple of seasons anyway, right?

So we have been pretty starved for guys who can actually score competently for a while now. And especially so from the perspective of actual shot-making. One of Lowry's forever issues is that he was pretty rough inside the arc, but he hit 3s reasonably well, drew fouls and was a solid FT shooter. So his average TS% was pretty good most years, but he was remarkably inconsistent because like half his shot volume was at under 38% and he was below average under the arc. We've needed shotmakers for a while. And we haven't finished better than 20th in the league in team 3P% since 2021. In fact, we've been 20th (23rd in 3PAr), 28th (25th in 3PAr), 27th (26th in 3PAr) and 23rd (29th in 3PAr) over these past few seasons. In those same seasons, 28th, 28th, 18th, and 25th in team 2FG%.

So it's pretty clear to see that we've been horrifically bad at making shots. In 2023, we were at least 1st in offensive TOV% and 3rd in ORB% and in 2022, we were 2nd in both. But since then, we've been mediocre to disastrous at protecting the ball. Back to 4th on the O-boards this year, though. So anyway, the point was that we weren't making shots and praying that possession control would be good enough, and it really, really wasn't.

So as far as the plan, we're gonna need that to change. It sounds simple, like a boxer saying "well, I wanna hit him a lot and not get hit myself." Duh.

But Ingram should help with 3pt shooting, as should reducing Scottie's volume. Quick being any kind of healthy should be of assistance. RJ being more in the corner than ATB, as well. All of that stuff should help us start addressing some BRUTAL issues with our team shotmaking. Same same with guys like Gradey and maybe a full season from Battle.

[Scase]

I'm curious, what gives you that expectation? Who is who in that scenario, cause no one on this roster has the age(youth) or the glimpses of talent that DD had in his first couple of years. I can see the Lowry/Scottie comp, but the DD one? Not a soul on the team IMO.

I think this may be overstating DD a bit. I think Ingram is fairly close to DD although I'd still say DD is better for sure. And the depth behind that with Quick, RJ, Poeltl is certainly miles ahead what the early we the north era teams had to work with. Those teams were very rough looking back at the rosters until we nailed a few drafts in a row for our depth (and obviously didn't blossom for a while after). Derozan's raw numbers were always better than his actual impact and we've seen that play out a bit across various teams in his career now.

I think the Lowry/Scottie comp is actually why this Raptors team would not be as good. Peak Kyle Lowry was impact wise a top 15 player in the league (or higher depending on measure).

If Scottie is ever as good as peak Lowry I will tell you this team will be fine with the depth it has. Scottie being not yet close to peak Lowry is why they won't be and are unlikely to be barring a jump from him.

My understanding from the post I replied to, was that we are at the beginning of the Lowry/DD era. Thats why I said no one on the roster has the youth/experience to match DD at that time. BI is gonna be 28 at seasons start, in his 10th year, and perpetually injured.

That's why I don't think we have anything in that vein. Unless the argument was that next year, we'd be in the midst of a Lowry/DD era, then I say we don't have a Lowry. Either way, this has way more of a FVV/Siakam vibe than a Lowry/DD one to me. Either way, neither of those teams aren't going anywhere.

C's/Knicks/Cavs/Pacers would body either of those teams without batting an eye, we're going to be a playoff team in name only, we're on track to be the Joe Johnson/Josh Smith Hawks for the next 3-5 years. 1st round exits with the occasional 2nd round sprinkled in for good measure, but ultimately achieving nothing.

RJ is probably closest to the DD comp. similar warts and age and all.

My issue with the RJ comp is that his age is less important than his time in the league, experience tends to be the real defining factor, it's why you don't ever really see 4 year college players ever come into the league and them make massive jumps. RJ is going into year 7, DD made his first ASG by year 5, and a year younger than RJ will be next year. Guys don't take the big leaps due to just being young, but it's because there are so many things they can learn and improve on with their time in the league, I expect RJ to improve, but incremental stuff, not jumps.

Demar's career playoff stats are

.418% FG, 21.4% 3P, (85.2% FT on 5.8/6.8 FT's a game, literally his only good stat), 4.7 TRB, 3.7 Ast, 1.1 Stl, 2.3 TO

he averages 21.8 PPG on 18.8 shots for a .502 TS

Demar is one of the worst playoff performers, in history, i'm as bleak on our upcoming future as anyone but i'd take just about anyone on our roster over Demar, including RJ.

While I agree, that's not a very high bar. And just to be clear, I wasn't the one making the comparison to KL/DD era teams, this is a Siakam/FVV type team IMO.

[Godaddycurse]

I'm curious, what gives you that expectation? Who is who in that scenario, cause no one on this roster has the age(youth) or the glimpses of talent that DD had in his first couple of years. I can see the Lowry/Scottie comp, but the DD one? Not a soul on the team IMO.

I think this may be overstating DD a bit. I think Ingram is fairly close to DD although I'd still say DD is better for sure. And the depth behind that with Quick, RJ, Poeltl is certainly miles ahead what the early we the north era teams had to work with. Those teams were very rough looking back at the rosters until we nailed a few drafts in a row for our depth (and obviously didn't blossom for a while after). Derozan's raw numbers were always better than his actual impact and we've seen that play out a bit across various teams in his career now.

I think the Lowry/Scottie comp is actually why this Raptors team would not be as good. Peak Kyle Lowry was impact wise a top 15 player in the league (or higher depending on measure).

If Scottie is ever as good as peak Lowry I will tell you this team will be fine with the depth it has. Scottie being not yet close to peak Lowry is why they won't be and are unlikely to be barring a jump from him.

My understanding from the post I replied to, was that we are at the beginning of the Lowry/DD era. Thats why I said no one on the roster has the youth/experience to match DD at that time. BI is gonna be 28 at seasons start, in his 10th year, and perpetually injured.

That's why I don't think we have anything in that vein. Unless the argument was that next year, we'd be in the midst of a Lowry/DD era, then I say we don't have a Lowry. Either way, this has way more of a FVV/Siakam vibe than a Lowry/DD one to me. Either way, neither of those teams aren't going anywhere.

C's/Knicks/Cavs/Pacers would body either of those teams without batting an eye, we're going to be a playoff team in name only, we're on track to be the Joe Johnson/Josh Smith Hawks for the next 3-5 years. 1st round exits with the occasional 2nd round sprinkled in for good measure, but ultimately achieving nothing.

My issue with the RJ comp is that his age is less important than his time in the league, experience tends to be the real defining factor, it's why you don't ever really see 4 year college players ever come into the league and them make massive jumps. RJ is going into year 7, DD made his first ASG by year 5, and a year younger than RJ will be next year. Guys don't take the big leaps due to just being young, but it's because there are so many things they can learn and improve on with their time in the league, I expect RJ to improve, but incremental stuff, not jumps.

Demar's career playoff stats are

.418% FG, 21.4% 3P, (85.2% FT on 5.8/6.8 FT's a game, literally his only good stat), 4.7 TRB, 3.7 Ast, 1.1 Stl, 2.3 TO

he averages 21.8 PPG on 18.8 shots for a .502 TS

Demar is one of the worst playoff performers, in history, i'm as bleak on our upcoming future as anyone but i'd take just about anyone on our roster over Demar, including RJ.

While I agree, that's not a very high bar. And just to be clear, I wasn't the one making the comparison to KL/DD era teams, this is a Siakam/FVV type team IMO.

In my mind i have Barnes/IQ/RJ as more like DD/Lowry because i dont think they reached their ceiling yet.

One other big difference is siakam/fvv era had a garbage bench whereas we have some promising young depth for next year now like in the lowry/DD era