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2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6

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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6 

Post#1941 » by PushDaRock » Wed May 14, 2025 1:12 am

Clutch0z24 wrote:
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Ppl get too hyped on Measurements/Atheltic Abilities way too much in the drafting process....These things are not as big of a deal when you realize these are basketball players and not Olympic athletes or high jumpers....They matter to a certain extent....

What matters more to scouts/gms are what translates on the basketball court....And how good they look in a 5 on 5 setting....Masai will see all these guys in workouts how good they are at the game of basketball....And a guy like Queen is not going to wow you as an athlete but as soon as you see him in games in a 5 vs 5 setting you realize he is 1 step better than the athletic types because of his basketball skills + IQ...

These measurments and athletic tests mean nothing to me personally....What matters is how they look on the court...Not in an open gym but in a 5 vs 5 setting...Thats all that really matters at the end of the day.


I don't expect him to wow anyone with his athleticism but testing out bottom tier like this does not help his outlook in any way. I posted the list of his comparables in testing, it wasn't a list you want to be on. Maybe he's an outlier and can overcome the physical limitations but history tells us these things do tend to matter.


I judge the players with what they do on the court and how they look in a 5 vs 5 setting....That matters to me more than how high a player can jump....You don't need to be an athlete to be a good smart basketball player....Does it help to be athletic sure...But its not something that defines you as a basketball player...


There's still a baseline combo of size and athleticism needed to succeed in the NBA. Mediocre even below average athlete is fine sometimes, but bottom tier maybe not so much. If it didn't matter, we would see more unathletic and undersized high IQ and skilled players that are excellent college players make it to the NBA.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6 

Post#1942 » by Clutch0z24 » Wed May 14, 2025 1:18 am

PushDaRock wrote:
Clutch0z24 wrote:
PushDaRock wrote:
I don't expect him to wow anyone with his athleticism but testing out bottom tier like this does not help his outlook in any way. I posted the list of his comparables in testing, it wasn't a list you want to be on. Maybe he's an outlier and can overcome the physical limitations but history tells us these things do tend to matter.


I judge the players with what they do on the court and how they look in a 5 vs 5 setting....That matters to me more than how high a player can jump....You don't need to be an athlete to be a good smart basketball player....Does it help to be athletic sure...But its not something that defines you as a basketball player...


There's still a baseline combo of size and athleticism needed to succeed in the NBA. Mediocre even below average athlete is fine sometimes, but bottom tier maybe not so much. If it didn't matter, we would see more unathletic and undersized high IQ and skilled players that are excellent college players make it to the NBA.


So you are telling me Queen is a high FRP in this draft because of what reason?....Its because of the on court basketball skills he possess....Like i said put Queen in a 1 on 1 or a 5 on 5 setting against any of these "Athletic guys" in this draft and i will bet money Queen cooks them majority of the time....Not because he is athletic but because he has better basketball skills than them....

Queen clearly has a very high basketball IQ and basketball skills to be this high on draft boards despite being not a great Athlete....If he falls because of this i would be happy....But i think he still goes before us because teams see how good he is on the court...In game setting...
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6 

Post#1943 » by BoyzNTheHood » Wed May 14, 2025 1:18 am

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deeps6x wrote:I guarantee you that (Jaylen) Brown and (Kris) Dunn are drafted OUT of the top 5.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6 

Post#1944 » by TimeForChange » Wed May 14, 2025 1:38 am

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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6 

Post#1945 » by TimeForChange » Wed May 14, 2025 1:41 am

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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6 

Post#1946 » by Basketball_Jones » Wed May 14, 2025 1:46 am

Bryant and Ochai would be like our Nembhard/Neismith equivalent imo. Not expecting a star at 9 so I don't mind going safe here.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6 

Post#1947 » by Yallbecrazy » Wed May 14, 2025 1:47 am

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Seems like #4 had some sort of extra weight so it wouldn't be pulled.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6 

Post#1948 » by PushDaRock » Wed May 14, 2025 1:48 am

Clutch0z24 wrote:
PushDaRock wrote:
Clutch0z24 wrote:
I judge the players with what they do on the court and how they look in a 5 vs 5 setting....That matters to me more than how high a player can jump....You don't need to be an athlete to be a good smart basketball player....Does it help to be athletic sure...But its not something that defines you as a basketball player...


There's still a baseline combo of size and athleticism needed to succeed in the NBA. Mediocre even below average athlete is fine sometimes, but bottom tier maybe not so much. If it didn't matter, we would see more unathletic and undersized high IQ and skilled players that are excellent college players make it to the NBA.


So you are telling me Queen is a high FRP in this draft because of what reason?....Its because of the on court basketball skills he possess....Like i said put Queen in a 1 on 1 or a 5 on 5 setting against any of these "Athletic guys" in this draft and i will bet money Queen cooks them majority of the time....Not because he is athletic but because he has better basketball skills than them....

Queen clearly has a very high basketball IQ and basketball skills to be this high on draft boards despite being not a great Athlete....If he falls because of this i would be happy....But i think he still goes before us because teams see how good he is on the court...In game setting...


Good production as a Freshman and scouts seem to think he can overcome the physical limitations. Maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong. We will see in 5 years or so.

Also, I don't care that he's not a great athlete. I care that he's an extremely poor athlete.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6 

Post#1949 » by Yallbecrazy » Wed May 14, 2025 1:52 am

TimeForChange wrote:
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If CMB has an in game off the dribble jumper then he has legit top 5 in the league potential, but there's a big difference between taking a planned couple steps and shooting vs dribbling by a guy, crossing it over and stopping, taking a step back and shooting.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6 

Post#1950 » by Indeed » Wed May 14, 2025 1:59 am

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Damage control, every team would have said the same thing being close to get the 1st overall pick for the justification on tanking.
The fact that a team didn't really focused on tanking wins, it is just clear that the lottery is not based on tanking.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6 

Post#1951 » by Indeed » Wed May 14, 2025 2:01 am

TimeForChange wrote:
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He is not yet a basketball player, which is the problem.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6 

Post#1952 » by S.W.A.N » Wed May 14, 2025 2:03 am

Clutch0z24 wrote:
PushDaRock wrote:
Clutch0z24 wrote:
I judge the players with what they do on the court and how they look in a 5 vs 5 setting....That matters to me more than how high a player can jump....You don't need to be an athlete to be a good smart basketball player....Does it help to be athletic sure...But its not something that defines you as a basketball player...


There's still a baseline combo of size and athleticism needed to succeed in the NBA. Mediocre even below average athlete is fine sometimes, but bottom tier maybe not so much. If it didn't matter, we would see more unathletic and undersized high IQ and skilled players that are excellent college players make it to the NBA.


So you are telling me Queen is a high FRP in this draft because of what reason?....Its because of the on court basketball skills he possess....Like i said put Queen in a 1 on 1 or a 5 on 5 setting against any of these "Athletic guys" in this draft and i will bet money Queen cooks them majority of the time....Not because he is athletic but because he has better basketball skills than them....

Queen clearly has a very high basketball IQ and basketball skills to be this high on draft boards despite being not a great Athlete....If he falls because of this i would be happy....But i think he still goes before us because teams see how good he is on the court...In game setting...


Context matter. If how they played in College mattered that much Johni Broome would be the first big man off the board. You have to project how their skills and size and athleticism will work at the next level. Plenty of guys like Queen have failed to find a role at next level.

He could be elite, or he could be a slow footed PF who can't shoot. Combine numbers tell a story that puts the odds of him reaching his highest outcome as a lower probability. Teams are going to have to see something in workouts and interviews that gives the confidence to think he can evolve.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6 

Post#1953 » by Indeed » Wed May 14, 2025 2:06 am

S.W.A.N wrote:
Clutch0z24 wrote:
PushDaRock wrote:
There's still a baseline combo of size and athleticism needed to succeed in the NBA. Mediocre even below average athlete is fine sometimes, but bottom tier maybe not so much. If it didn't matter, we would see more unathletic and undersized high IQ and skilled players that are excellent college players make it to the NBA.


So you are telling me Queen is a high FRP in this draft because of what reason?....Its because of the on court basketball skills he possess....Like i said put Queen in a 1 on 1 or a 5 on 5 setting against any of these "Athletic guys" in this draft and i will bet money Queen cooks them majority of the time....Not because he is athletic but because he has better basketball skills than them....

Queen clearly has a very high basketball IQ and basketball skills to be this high on draft boards despite being not a great Athlete....If he falls because of this i would be happy....But i think he still goes before us because teams see how good he is on the court...In game setting...


Context matter. If how they played in College mattered that much Johni Broome would be the first big man off the board. You have to project how their skills and size and athleticism will work at the next level. Plenty of guys like Queen have failed to find a role at next level.

He could be elite, or he could be a slow footed PF who can't shoot. Combine numbers tell a story that puts the odds of him reaching his highest outcome as a lower probability. Teams are going to have to see something in workouts and interviews that gives the confidence to think he can evolve.


I think Queen will drop. He is also a year older.
As for Maluach, it depends on team needs, so he could be available at our pick as well.

I think Bryant, who I feel can be in the tier of Bailey, will rise.
Jakucionis, Essengue and Riley could be in the mix in the top 10.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6 

Post#1954 » by nowayguy » Wed May 14, 2025 2:07 am

Basketball_Jones wrote:Bryant and Ochai would be like our Nembhard/Neismith equivalent imo. Not expecting a star at 9 so I don't mind going safe here.

Since 2000, 19 of the 25 drafts had at least one player between picks 9-15 becoming an all-star (numbers are slightly better if you remove the last two drafts due to recency). Odds are there's a really good NBA player in the Raptors draft range.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6 

Post#1955 » by 720 » Wed May 14, 2025 2:08 am

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We were one number off of Cade as well btw.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6 

Post#1956 » by 720 » Wed May 14, 2025 2:09 am

Indeed wrote:
BoyzNTheHood wrote:
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Damage control, every team would have said the same thing being close to get the 1st overall pick for the justification on tanking.
The fact that a team didn't really focused on tanking wins, it is just clear that the lottery is not based on tanking.

Bud, two of the top 3 teams tanked, Spurs tanked, Sixers tanked. The rest of the teams outside of the top 3 from 4- 9 all tanked. What logic is this? :lol:
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6 

Post#1957 » by Clutch0z24 » Wed May 14, 2025 2:19 am

S.W.A.N wrote:
Clutch0z24 wrote:
PushDaRock wrote:
There's still a baseline combo of size and athleticism needed to succeed in the NBA. Mediocre even below average athlete is fine sometimes, but bottom tier maybe not so much. If it didn't matter, we would see more unathletic and undersized high IQ and skilled players that are excellent college players make it to the NBA.


So you are telling me Queen is a high FRP in this draft because of what reason?....Its because of the on court basketball skills he possess....Like i said put Queen in a 1 on 1 or a 5 on 5 setting against any of these "Athletic guys" in this draft and i will bet money Queen cooks them majority of the time....Not because he is athletic but because he has better basketball skills than them....

Queen clearly has a very high basketball IQ and basketball skills to be this high on draft boards despite being not a great Athlete....If he falls because of this i would be happy....But i think he still goes before us because teams see how good he is on the court...In game setting...


Context matter. If how they played in College mattered that much Johni Broome would be the first big man off the board. You have to project how their skills and size and athleticism will work at the next level. Plenty of guys like Queen have failed to find a role at next level.

He could be elite, or he could be a slow footed PF who can't shoot. Combine numbers tell a story that puts the odds of him reaching his highest outcome as a lower probability. Teams are going to have to see something in workouts and interviews that gives the confidence to think he can evolve.


Could say that about any prospect...Could also say all these guys that are better athletically will never develop the basketball skills/basketball IQ Queen has ever so they will also not reach their peaks as a prospect....For me personally i don't care how athletic you are....As long as you show me in a game in 5 on 5 setting you can play basketball at a high level....That matters to me more...

Would love if Queen falls and i would not be mad if we take him despite the atheltic ability....But still i think hes going to go high in this draft regardless because NBA Scouts will see him in a 5 on 5 setting and see him cooking guys....
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6 

Post#1958 » by Mark_83 » Wed May 14, 2025 2:19 am

Can anyone give me a reason why Kalkbrenner couldn't be drop coverage, stretch 5 like Brook Lopez? Brook is not switchable at all and has poor footspeed. But he's an excellent rim protector and a solid distance shooter.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6 

Post#1959 » by UnbelievablyRAW » Wed May 14, 2025 2:21 am

Yang seems like a great prospect unless the Chinese comp is really that bad
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6 

Post#1960 » by PushDaRock » Wed May 14, 2025 2:23 am

Clutch0z24 wrote:
S.W.A.N wrote:
Clutch0z24 wrote:
So you are telling me Queen is a high FRP in this draft because of what reason?....Its because of the on court basketball skills he possess....Like i said put Queen in a 1 on 1 or a 5 on 5 setting against any of these "Athletic guys" in this draft and i will bet money Queen cooks them majority of the time....Not because he is athletic but because he has better basketball skills than them....

Queen clearly has a very high basketball IQ and basketball skills to be this high on draft boards despite being not a great Athlete....If he falls because of this i would be happy....But i think he still goes before us because teams see how good he is on the court...In game setting...


Context matter. If how they played in College mattered that much Johni Broome would be the first big man off the board. You have to project how their skills and size and athleticism will work at the next level. Plenty of guys like Queen have failed to find a role at next level.

He could be elite, or he could be a slow footed PF who can't shoot. Combine numbers tell a story that puts the odds of him reaching his highest outcome as a lower probability. Teams are going to have to see something in workouts and interviews that gives the confidence to think he can evolve.


Could say that about any prospect...Could also say all these guys that are better athletically will never develop the basketball skills/basketball IQ Queen has ever so they will also not reach their peaks as a prospect....For me personally i don't care how athletic you are....As long as you show me in a game in 5 on 5 setting you can play basketball at a high level....That matters to me more...

Would love if Queen falls and i would not be mad if we take him despite the atheltic ability....But still i think hes going to go high in this draft regardless because NBA Scouts will see him in a 5 on 5 setting and see him cooking guys....


Luke Garza should have been a top 5 pick if cooking guys 5 on 5 was the only evaluation process.

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