ATL - Bane to Orlando for 4 FRP+

ANTETOKOUNBROS · Post #361 » by **ANTETOKOUNBROS** » Wed May 14, 2025 1:48 am

Pacers are obviously well coached but it helps that they did not construct their team full of old retreads. They have a James Johnson as a human victory cigar, our team around Giannis is full of James Johnsons.

Post #362 » by **humanrefutation** » Wed May 14, 2025 1:49 am

Pacers-Knicks. Time to party like it's 1994.

Bernman · Post #363 » by **Bernman** » Wed May 14, 2025 1:49 am

MickeyDavis wrote:
Bernman wrote:
Plossum wrote:Preface: not stanning for Doc, but who is a better coach in this context? Kenny A is about to go down the same 4-1 we did. Did his rotations and coaching decisions blow it too?

Atkinson struggled like Bud. Made sensible decisions but took too long to break from them when they weren't working. Doc made senseless decisions literally nobody else would make. Prince at guard works against nobody, Kuz was struggling, & Brook's more of a dinosaur than the Cavs' bigs.

Literally every coach, including Atkinson, would have given us a much better chance to win by deploying a lineup that was DOA.

So you absolve Kenny. "Made sensible decisions". He was down 3-1, changed nothing and got bounced. With HCA. Awful coaching.

No, I don't absolve Kenny. It's more a referendum how Doc had the worst coaching performance in NBA history & we can give you tangible reasons why, like starting 4 pf's to c's. Meanwhile, there was an alternative that was not only dramatically more effective, but a marginal positive.

Post #364 » by **MickeyDavis** » Wed May 14, 2025 1:49 am

Go OKC

Post #365 » by **MickeyDavis** » Wed May 14, 2025 1:52 am

Bernman wrote:
MickeyDavis wrote:
Bernman wrote:
Atkinson struggled like Bud. Made sensible decisions but took too long to break from them when they weren't working. Doc made senseless decisions literally nobody else would make. Prince at guard works against nobody, Kuz was struggling, & Brook's more of a dinosaur than the Cavs' bigs.

Literally every coach, including Atkinson, would have given us a much better chance to win by deploying a lineup that was DOA.

So you absolve Kenny. "Made sensible decisions". He was down 3-1, changed nothing and got bounced. With HCA. Awful coaching.

No, I don't absolve Kenny. It's more a referendum how Doc had the worst coaching performance in NBA history & we can give you tangible reasons why, like starting 4 pf's to c's. Meanwhile, there was an alternative that was not only dramatically more effective, but a marginal positive.

I guess I look at it as Doc waited until he was down 3-1 to make big changes (yes too late). Kenny down 3-1 just stayed the course and paid for it. Vs the Pacers it was Doc > Kenny (lesser of 2 evils though).

Post #366 » by **ReasonablySober** » Wed May 14, 2025 1:52 am

I just can't get worked up over Doc when Dame was out and Giannis was surrounded by bums. I can't imagine giving a **** about the head coach when everyone on the planet looks at this roster and knows with 100% certainty that Giannis can't win with that.

blazza18 · Post #367 » by **blazza18** » Wed May 14, 2025 2:01 am

Doc stinks. Roster stinks.

rilamann · Post #368 » by **rilamann** » Wed May 14, 2025 2:02 am

Plossum wrote:
rilamann wrote:
Profound23 wrote:

I think it's more a Heat from 2023. Run into Milwaukee without Dame, Cleveland with Mitchell hurt, I'm guessing someone goes down in the NY series then they get killed in the Finals.

Just hoping it's not Denver again this time.

The Pacers have caught some breaks, but they have been good enough and consistent enough that you have to say they are legit.

I don't think they are a tier 1 juggernaut, but they are pretty damn good.

I still say the Bucks could have beat them if the Bucks had a competent coach that simply just played common sense lineups.

Preface: not stanning for Doc, but who is a better coach in this context? Kenny A is about to go down the same 4-1 we did. Did his rotations and coaching decisions blow it too?

Hard for me to say. I don't watch 99% of the Cavs games like I do with the Bucks.

I know Kenny Atkinson just went 64-18 without an MVP candidate. Winning 64 games without an MVP candidate is a pretty strong indicator that your team is well coached.

Doc failed to win 50 games in 2 tries with a top 3 MVP canidate and an all-time 75th anniversary guy.

As for this Pacers/Cavs series, it looked Kenny Atkinson put the Cavs in the best position to win. The Players just looked like soft chokers (Mitchell just bricked his 3 biggest free throws of the season for example). Injuries for the Cavs played a role too.

But we know that Doc didn't put the Bucks in the best position to win. Maybe Doc puts the Bucks in the best position to win and they still lose 4-1 to the Pacers. Maybe.

But we don't know because Doc never put the Bucks in the best position to win.

That's why Doc is a bad coach.

Kenny Atkinson doesn't get a free pass for this series, but it looked to me like he put his team in the best position to win. He's also a victim of his own success to an extent. The Cavs are probably a 50 win team that overachieved in the regular season and that caught up with them in the playoffs.

I said this a few weeks ago before the Cavs/Pacers series.

rilamann wrote:The Cavs are really good, but I don't think they are quite on Boston's level. I think the Cavs are a really good 50 win team that overachieves at a high level because they are insanely well coached. That stuff is fun in the regular season, but it eventually catches up with you when you play the top teams

Quoted to show that I am not saying this in hindsight now that the Cavs just lost 4-1 to the Pacers.

Post #369 » by **MickeyDavis** » Wed May 14, 2025 2:04 am

Pacers are in pretty good cap shape but Turner is a FA after this season. It will be interesting to see what he gets. And if they lose again in the ECF will they just run it back or make a move or two.

Dick Tate · Post #370 » by **Dick Tate** » Wed May 14, 2025 2:04 am

Even though Doc "discovered" his starting lineup, he still had Kuz playing SG minutes in the 2nd quarter.

Post #371 » by **Prez** » Wed May 14, 2025 2:14 am

Doc was the worst coach in the league this past season. It's pretty easy for me to get worked up over the Bucks having the worst coach in the league coaching Giannis.

MoreTrife · Post #372 » by **MoreTrife** » Wed May 14, 2025 2:28 am

Good OKC-DEN game.

MoreTrife · Post #373 » by **MoreTrife** » Wed May 14, 2025 2:30 am

No flopping in playoffs.

GHOSTofSIKMA · Post #374 » by **GHOSTofSIKMA** » Wed May 14, 2025 2:42 am

Prez wrote:Doc was the worst coach in the league this past season. It's pretty easy for me to get worked up over the Bucks having the worst coach in the league coaching Giannis.

good coaches vs bad coaches is a fine margin. doc wasnt great but he wasnt as big a deal as the board makes him out to be imo

personally if hes brought back id be like meh. whatever. without being there myself i find it hard to decipher. i dont think you can draw a line on coaches unless youre a gm and have a heartbeat of the lockerroom dynamic. as fans we dont have that. every coach on every team in america from HS on up people bitch about

i do think the starting lineups were weird but if we sat with him at dinner and he unloaded for a night it might make sense. sometimes its more about the people than it is the metrics or the tradition. people and personalities in the lockerroom outweigh all of that

Post #375 » by **MickeyDavis** » Wed May 14, 2025 2:46 am

MoreTrife wrote:Good OKC-DEN game.

Fun. Intense.

ShootingtheJ · Post #376 » by **ShootingtheJ** » Wed May 14, 2025 2:47 am

ReasonablySober wrote:I just can't get worked up over Doc when Dame was out and Giannis was surrounded by bums. I can't imagine giving a **** about the head coach when everyone on the planet looks at this roster and knows with 100% certainty that Giannis can't win with that.

Except they were really good when certain bums played, but the moron kept playing the wrong dudes.

Post #377 » by **ReasonablySober** » Wed May 14, 2025 2:48 am

ShootingtheJ wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:I just can't get worked up over Doc when Dame was out and Giannis was surrounded by bums. I can't imagine giving a **** about the head coach when everyone on the planet looks at this roster and knows with 100% certainty that Giannis can't win with that.

Except they were really good when certain bums played, but the moron kept playing the wrong dudes.

Unfortunately this is the NBA and eight or nine guys need to play every night.

ShootingtheJ · Post #378 » by **ShootingtheJ** » Wed May 14, 2025 2:51 am

Prez wrote:Doc was the worst coach in the league this past season. It's pretty easy for me to get worked up over the Bucks having the worst coach in the league coaching Giannis.

Nope, not even close. Buds was easily the worst. Doc played some scrubs, but Bud's was embarassing.

Post #379 » by **ReasonablySober** » Wed May 14, 2025 2:57 am

Prez wrote:Doc was the worst coach in the league this past season. It's pretty easy for me to get worked up over the Bucks having the worst coach in the league coaching Giannis.

They needed Kevin Porter Jr. to save them. Not just this season, but the future of the franchise. That's how terrible the roster is.

Post #380 » by **Prez** » Wed May 14, 2025 2:57 am

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
Prez wrote:Doc was the worst coach in the league this past season. It's pretty easy for me to get worked up over the Bucks having the worst coach in the league coaching Giannis.

good coaches vs bad coaches is a fine margin. doc wasnt great but he wasnt as big a deal as the board makes him out to be imo

personally if hes brought back id be like meh. whatever. without being there myself i find it hard to decipher. i dont think you can draw a line on coaches unless youre a gm and have a heartbeat of the lockerroom dynamic. as fans we dont have that. every coach on every team in america from HS on up people bitch about

i do think the starting lineups were weird but if we sat with him at dinner and he unloaded for a night it might make sense. sometimes its more about the people than it is the metrics or the tradition. people and personalities in the lockerroom outweigh all of that

Nah, he was legitimately terrible. Consistently starting and leaning into lineups for like 90% of the season that make zero sense around your best player and by all objective metrics are bad lineups while there are multiple better options available to you is crap coaching. Having a woefully uncreative offense the entire season with Giannis Antetokounmpo and Damian Lillard is crap coaching. Having a team that is 1st in the entire league in 3PT% but only 18th in 3PA is crap coaching. His lineup decisions the last couple months post-Kuzma trade and into the Pacers series in particular were active sabotage. He's a **** tier coach.

I'm checking out next year if he's our head coach. I can't stand to watch them light another season prime Giannis season on fire.