2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft

[stormi]

I like how they said on the RTRS podcast that they want the 3rd overall pick, not for the talent, but for content purposes. LOL

"The San Antonio Spurs are proud to select, ACE BAILEY, Rutgers!"

will send me to heaven

We're getting Harper

[sodmoraes]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45104149/2025-nba-draft-combine-chicago-prospects-workout-highlights-measurements-stats-cooper-flagg-dallas-mavericks

"Tre Johnson, SG, Texas: Though top prospects don't typically do a lot of on-court activities at the combine, getting to see projected top picks get up shots in this setting is additive for evaluation. Teams took notice of Johnson's shooting performance in drills (68% on all shots attempted), as he displayed quick and clean mechanics from long range and left a strong impression. Johnson also tested well athletically.

Multiple scouts I spoke with were impressed with his stroke -- and while that's not a shocker for a player who shot 39.7% from 3 on nearly seven attempts per game last season -- it does offer insight into what teams will see from him in private workouts. Based on what he showed, Johnson figures to impress in that context as he vies for a spot among the draft's top-five picks. -- Woo"

[ivysixer2000]

I've been reading, but u guys are killing me.

VJ would be nice, but overkill with our backcourt. We barely can get McCain mins, sure getting rid of the other guards is an option, but at some point you can have too many guards and noone to rebound, block shots, steals, etc.

We have noone on this team that is tall, other than Jojo and PG, maybe. At some point we need someone tall.

[Sixersftw]

I like how they said on the RTRS podcast that they want the 3rd overall pick, not for the talent, but for content purposes. LOL

i texted my friend the second we got the 3rd pick, "Of course they got the most content pilled pick." Is this franchise good? Almost never. Is it entertaining? Absolutely.

[Covi_Marsh]

I’ve come around on Ace Bailey. He does have a ways to go for self creation which we wouldn’t need him to do right away. But at the very least I believe he could be a great defender of wings, rebound, and produce weak side blocks early, something we haven’t had from a PF and been needing. He shot 39% from catch and 3 so he should be able to come right in playing the Oubre role. Shoot Open 3s, attach close outs to an open rim and backside cuts for lobs or dunks. That’s a valueable 3&D which are hard to find.

Now star power to lead his own team is something he may never reach. I’m willing to gamble at age 18 because a 3&D floor is solid. His best case would of course be Tatum. Where he can use a triple threat to create space for a step back, or drive when the defender closes the space. Push off if you can’t create separation driving to the rim or hit that little stupid spin to get the layup lol. Need to get up to at least 220 lbs for this.

He also could adapt the Mikal bridge/ Ingram where if you get to the midrange in front the FT line and can’t get to the rim but you have space, mid range fade is unblockable at that length.

The KD/ PG comparisons must stop offensively because he’s not creating space by using crossovers.

[Covi_Marsh]

My optimistic floor for him is athletic Michael Porter Jr with Jonathan Isaac defense. I saw he ran a 2.8 shuttle run. That’s elite for 6’9 wing.

[stormi]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45104149/2025-nba-draft-combine-chicago-prospects-workout-highlights-measurements-stats-cooper-flagg-dallas-mavericks

"Tre Johnson, SG, Texas: Though top prospects don't typically do a lot of on-court activities at the combine, getting to see projected top picks get up shots in this setting is additive for evaluation. Teams took notice of Johnson's shooting performance in drills (68% on all shots attempted), as he displayed quick and clean mechanics from long range and left a strong impression. Johnson also tested well athletically.

Multiple scouts I spoke with were impressed with his stroke -- and while that's not a shocker for a player who shot 39.7% from 3 on nearly seven attempts per game last season -- it does offer insight into what teams will see from him in private workouts. Based on what he showed, Johnson figures to impress in that context as he vies for a spot among the draft's top-five picks. -- Woo"

I'm on the fence with Tre because he doesn't really bring anything outside of shooting and some secondary ball handling on O. Abysmal rebounder and doesn’t do anything on defense.

He was definitely out of role as a 30% usage guy at Texas but that’s how nba teams will use him.

I think he's Norman Powell.

[76ciology]

I like how they said on the RTRS podcast that they want the 3rd overall pick, not for the talent, but for content purposes. LOL

i texted my friend the second we got the 3rd pick, "Of course they got the most content pilled pick." Is this franchise good? Almost never. Is it entertaining? Absolutely.

This is so true

[stormi]

My optimistic floor for him is athletic Michael Porter Jr with Jonathan Isaac defense. I saw he ran a 2.8 shuttle run. That’s elite for 6’9 wing.

Do you know know and remember how ridiculously good of a shooter Porter is and was in College and in HS?

Outrageous comparison based around nothing but manifestation.

Porter is also a legit 6'10 and not a fugazi 6'10 like Ace. Porter measured out 6'9.5 barefoot at the combine, Ace is 6'7.5.

[sodmoraes]

Why Tre Johnson over Kon Knueppel?

Like already said, the difference on "off the dribble shooting" was brutal:

Tre Johnson is the best shooter available at 4.
- I know people might say Kon, but them shooting off the dribble is nowhere in the same conversation.

Kon 3/21 on off dribble threes.
Tre 38/99 on off dribble threes.

You gotta consider too that "Nipples" played on a loaded team, getting cleaner shots, while Tre team was pretty bad.

Another thing to add is that Kon measured badly. Some people thought that he could be in the 6.6-6.7 range, but he was 6.5 with a pretty bad wingspan. SO he will probably play as a sg only. Tre is 6.6 on shoes, with great wingspan.

Tre had some pretty good results on the combine, so it seems that his athletic ability may be underrated, while Kon missed the combine, with a suspicious ankle injury...

I think Kon will be a great shooter, but he´s more of a roleplayer, while Tre can be a big shotmaker, maybe a star?

[Covi_Marsh]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45104149/2025-nba-draft-combine-chicago-prospects-workout-highlights-measurements-stats-cooper-flagg-dallas-mavericks

"Tre Johnson, SG, Texas: Though top prospects don't typically do a lot of on-court activities at the combine, getting to see projected top picks get up shots in this setting is additive for evaluation. Teams took notice of Johnson's shooting performance in drills (68% on all shots attempted), as he displayed quick and clean mechanics from long range and left a strong impression. Johnson also tested well athletically.

Multiple scouts I spoke with were impressed with his stroke -- and while that's not a shocker for a player who shot 39.7% from 3 on nearly seven attempts per game last season -- it does offer insight into what teams will see from him in private workouts. Based on what he showed, Johnson figures to impress in that context as he vies for a spot among the draft's top-five picks. -- Woo"

I'm on the fence with Tre because he doesn't really bring anything outside of shooting and some secondary ball handling on O. Abysmal rebounder and doesn’t do anything on defense.

He was definitely out of role as a 30% usage guy at Texas but that’s how nba teams will use him.

I think he's Norman Powell.

Tre tested great at the combine and has a 6’10
Wingspan. It makes absolutely no sense how his defense is so bad. It definitely has to be an effort issue, which may be a red flag for a national championship contender. If winning a title doesn’t get you going, then what will? Millions of dollars?

[Negrodamus]

1. Nikola Jokic - Euro
2. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander - 9.0 BPM (FR)
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo - Euro
4. Jayson Tatum - 7.9 BPM (FR)
5. Luka Doncic - Euro
6. Steph Curry - Pre-BPM (JR)
7. Anthony Edwards - 5.5 BPM (FR)
8. Lebron James - High School
9. Donovan Mitchell - 11.1 BPM (SO)
10. Jalen Brunson - 10.2 BPM (JR)
11. Kevin Durant - Pre-BPM, ///statistical profile likely eclipses 13.0 (FR)
12. Victor Wembanyama - Euro
13. Evan Mobley - 13.7 BPM (FR)
14. Anthony Davis - 17.2 BPM (lol) (FR)
15. Cade Cunningham - 8.3 BPM (FR)
16. Kawhi Leonard - 9.2 BPM (SO)
17. Karl-Anthony Towns - 14.3 BPM (FR)
18. Devin Booker - 9.4 BPM (FR)
19. Tyrese Haliburton - 11.7 BPM (SO)
20. Jimmy Butler - 9.4 BPM (JR)
21. Jaylen Brown - 3.6 BPM (FR)
22. Jaren Jackson - 11.7 BPM (FR)
23. Paolo Banchero - 7.7 BPM (FR)
24. Jalen Williams - 6.0 BPM (SO)
25. James Harden - Pre-BPM, ///likely 12+ (SO)

Next round: 2FG%/FT%/STL%

SGA - 50%/81%
Tatum- 50%/85%
Curry - 52%/87%
Ant - 50%/ 77%
Mitchell - 46%/81% (Career 50% 2FG tho)
Brunson - 60%/80%
Durant - 50%/82%
Mobley - 62%/69%
AD - 65%/ 71%
Cade - 46%/85%
Kawhi - 48%/76% (Career 50% 2FG)
KAT - 58%/81%
Booker - 53%/ 83%
Haliburton - 59%/ 82%
Jimmy - 52%/78%
Jaylen Brown - 48%/65%
Jaren Jackson - 60%/80%
Banchero - 53%/73%
Jalen Williams - 55%/81%
Harden - 56%/76%

Disclaimer: I usually hold bigs to a different FT standard than guards or wings

Outliers: Cade at 46%. Jaylen continues to be an insane outlier and gotta give Celtics their flowers for taking him at 3. Mobley FT would concern me going into the draft. Same would Banchero.

Brunson at 60% 2FG makes so much sense as we see him brutalize teams in the paint at end of game scenarios.


Flagg - 52%/84%
Harper - 57%/75%
Bailey - 51%/69%
VJ - 50%/78%
Tre - 45%/87%
Kon - 57%/91%
Fears - 51%/85%
Maluach- 75%/77%
Queen - 56%/77%
Kasparas- 56%/85%

Damning for Tre and his 2FG. Bailey's FT%, like many other things, is disqualifying.


While I'm here, how about STL%?

SGA - 2.8%
Tatum- 2.3%
Curry - Doesn't state it, but he was avg 2.5 spg his junior year, so probably 3-4% range
Ant - 2.3%
Mitchell - 3.7%
Brunson - 1.7%
Durant - avg 1.5, so clears 2%
Mobley - 1.4%
AD - 2.5%
Cade - 2.5%
Kawhi - 2.7%
KAT - 1.4%
Booker - 1.3%
Haliburton - 3.8%
Jimmy - 2.4%
Jaylen Brown - 1.7%
Jaren Jackson - 1.6%
Banchero - 1.9%
Jalen Williams - 1.9% (Career 2.3%)
Harden - avg 1.7, so clears 2%

Once again, I give bigs a little grace since they aren't in steal potential nearly as much.

Brunson was bad and tbh, he still doesn't generate them. Booker is the same way. Brown was partying in his one year at Cal.


Flagg - 2.8%
Harper - 2.6%
Bailey - 1.7%
Edgecombe- 3.8%
Tre - 1.6%
Kon - 2.0%
Fears - 3.1%
Maluach- 0.6%
Queen - 2.0%
Kasparas - 1.5%

Not a great look for Bailey, Tre, and Kasparas. Maluach barely knows what a steal looks like; absolutely terrible.


If I have time today, I'll do the FTr, which is definitely one of the great dividers. I already know this will exclude Bailey and Tre again from a >.300 FTr that you so often see from the all stars above coming into the league. If my memory serves, Mitchell was sub .300 his soph but above it his freshman year. I'm pretty sure Haliburton was substantially below it.

One takeaway is Kon massively passes the statistics test. Wish his wingspan wasn't buttcheeks and I wish he played more on ball. The lack of length and athleticism is a hard one to swallow when he does literally everything well.

[stormi]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45104149/2025-nba-draft-combine-chicago-prospects-workout-highlights-measurements-stats-cooper-flagg-dallas-mavericks

"Tre Johnson, SG, Texas: Though top prospects don't typically do a lot of on-court activities at the combine, getting to see projected top picks get up shots in this setting is additive for evaluation. Teams took notice of Johnson's shooting performance in drills (68% on all shots attempted), as he displayed quick and clean mechanics from long range and left a strong impression. Johnson also tested well athletically.

Multiple scouts I spoke with were impressed with his stroke -- and while that's not a shocker for a player who shot 39.7% from 3 on nearly seven attempts per game last season -- it does offer insight into what teams will see from him in private workouts. Based on what he showed, Johnson figures to impress in that context as he vies for a spot among the draft's top-five picks. -- Woo"

I'm on the fence with Tre because he doesn't really bring anything outside of shooting and some secondary ball handling on O. Abysmal rebounder and doesn’t do anything on defense.

He was definitely out of role as a 30% usage guy at Texas but that’s how nba teams will use him.

I think he's Norman Powell.

Tre tested great at the combine and has a 6’10
Wingspan. It makes absolutely no sense how his defense is so bad. It definitely has to be an effort issue, which may be a red flag for a national championship contender. If winning a title doesn’t get you going, then what will? Millions of dollars?

One of the worst rebounders in college and I also think it's a factor in his lack of ability to finish or generate rim pressure.

Trying to talk myself into it but I'm lowkey good on that, especially if we're bringing Grimes back.

[76ciology]

My optimistic floor for him is athletic Michael Porter Jr with Jonathan Isaac defense. I saw he ran a 2.8 shuttle run. That’s elite for 6’9 wing.

Do you know know and remember how ridiculously good of a shooter Porter is and was in College and in HS?

Outrageous comparison based around nothing but manifestation.

Porter is also a legit 6'10 and not a fugazi 6'10 like Ace. Porter measured out 6'9.5 barefoot at the combine, Ace is 6'7.5.

[sodmoraes]

I’ve come around on Ace Bailey. He does have a ways to go for self creation which we wouldn’t need him to do right away. But at the very least I believe he could be a great defender of wings, rebound, and produce weak side blocks early, something we haven’t had from a PF and been needing. He shot 39% from catch and 3 so he should be able to come right in playing the Oubre role. Shoot Open 3s, attach close outs to an open rim and backside cuts for lobs or dunks. That’s a valueable 3&D which are hard to find.

Now star power to lead his own team is something he may never reach. I’m willing to gamble at age 18 because a 3&D floor is solid. His best case would of course be Tatum. Where he can use a triple threat to create space for a step back, or drive when the defender closes the space. Push off if you can’t create separation driving to the rim or hit that little stupid spin to get the layup lol. Need to get up to at least 220 lbs for this.

He also could adapt the Mikal bridge/ Ingram where if you get to the midrange in front the FT line and can’t get to the rim but you have space, mid range fade is unblockable at that length.

The KD/ PG comparisons must stop offensively because he’s not creating space by using crossovers.

100% agree with you. A lot of people that are against Baley say that´s because he probably wont reach his ceiling as a prime time SF. But even if he´s a 3 and D SF he has some good value for us, since we are kinda lacking on the wing department. He has some nice defensive instincts, he has good/great athletiscim and size and he has good catch and shoot percentages. Even if he doesnt became more than that, that has alot of value.

[stormi]

1. Nikola Jokic - Euro
2. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander - 9.0 BPM (FR)
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo - Euro
4. Jayson Tatum - 7.9 BPM (FR)
5. Luka Doncic - Euro
6. Steph Curry - Pre-BPM (JR)
7. Anthony Edwards - 5.5 BPM (FR)
8. Lebron James - High School
9. Donovan Mitchell - 11.1 BPM (SO)
10. Jalen Brunson - 10.2 BPM (JR)
11. Kevin Durant - Pre-BPM, ///statistical profile likely eclipses 13.0 (FR)
12. Victor Wembanyama - Euro
13. Evan Mobley - 13.7 BPM (FR)
14. Anthony Davis - 17.2 BPM (lol) (FR)
15. Cade Cunningham - 8.3 BPM (FR)
16. Kawhi Leonard - 9.2 BPM (SO)
17. Karl-Anthony Towns - 14.3 BPM (FR)
18. Devin Booker - 9.4 BPM (FR)
19. Tyrese Haliburton - 11.7 BPM (SO)
20. Jimmy Butler - 9.4 BPM (JR)
21. Jaylen Brown - 3.6 BPM (FR)
22. Jaren Jackson - 11.7 BPM (FR)
23. Paolo Banchero - 7.7 BPM (FR)
24. Jalen Williams - 6.0 BPM (SO)
25. James Harden - Pre-BPM, ///likely 12+ (SO)

Next round: 2FG%/FT%/STL%

SGA - 50%/81%
Tatum- 50%/85%
Curry - 52%/87%
Ant - 50%/ 77%
Mitchell - 46%/81% (Career 50% 2FG tho)
Brunson - 60%/80%
Durant - 50%/82%
Mobley - 62%/69%
AD - 65%/ 71%
Cade - 46%/85%
Kawhi - 48%/76% (Career 50% 2FG)
KAT - 58%/81%
Booker - 53%/ 83%
Haliburton - 59%/ 82%
Jimmy - 52%/78%
Jaylen Brown - 48%/65%
Jaren Jackson - 60%/80%
Banchero - 53%/73%
Jalen Williams - 55%/81%
Harden - 56%/76%

Disclaimer: I usually hold bigs to a different FT standard than guards or wings

Outliers: Cade at 46%. Jaylen continues to be an insane outlier and gotta give Celtics their flowers for taking him at 3. Mobley FT would concern me going into the draft. Same would Banchero.

Brunson at 60% 2FG makes so much sense as we see him brutalize teams in the paint at end of game scenarios.


Flagg - 52%/84%
Harper - 57%/75%
Bailey - 51%/69%
VJ - 50%/78%
Tre - 45%/87%
Kon - 57%/91%
Fears - 51%/85%
Maluach- 75%/77%
Queen - 56%/77%
Kasparas- 56%/85%

Damning for Tre and his 2FG. Bailey's FT%, like many other things, is disqualifying.


While I'm here, how about STL%?

SGA - 2.8%
Tatum- 2.3%
Curry - Doesn't state it, but he was avg 2.5 spg his junior year, so probably 3-4% range
Ant - 2.3%
Mitchell - 3.7%
Brunson - 1.7%
Durant - avg 1.5, so clears 2%
Mobley - 1.4%
AD - 2.5%
Cade - 2.5%
Kawhi - 2.7%
KAT - 1.4%
Booker - 1.3%
Haliburton - 3.8%
Jimmy - 2.4%
Jaylen Brown - 1.7%
Jaren Jackson - 1.6%
Banchero - 1.9%
Jalen Williams - 1.9% (Career 2.3%)
Harden - avg 1.7, so clears 2%

Once again, I give bigs a little grace since they aren't in steal potential nearly as much.

Brunson was bad and tbh, he still doesn't generate them. Booker is the same way. Brown was partying in his one year at Cal.


Flagg - 2.8%
Harper - 2.6%
Bailey - 1.7%
Edgecombe- 3.8%
Tre - 1.6%
Kon - 2.0%
Fears - 3.1%
Maluach- 0.6%
Queen - 2.0%
Kasparas - 1.5%

Not a great look for Bailey, Tre, and Kasparas. Maluach barely knows what a steal looks like; absolutely terrible.


If I have time today, I'll do the FTr, which is definitely one of the great dividers. I already know this will exclude Bailey and Tre again from a >.300 FTr that you so often see from the all stars above coming into the league. If my memory serves, Mitchell was sub .300 his soph but above it his freshman year. I'm pretty sure Haliburton was substantially below it.

One takeaway is Kon massively passes the statistics test. Wish his wingspan wasn't buttcheeks and I wish he played more on ball. The lack of length and athleticism is a hard one to swallow when he does literally everything well.

Kon would be a lot easier to stomach drafting if we were sitting at pick 5 because you wouldn't have to live with the guilt of passing up on the RCSI aura players, I wouldn't be surprised if he's a top three player from this class looking back and an instant playoff contributor.

[ivysixer2000]

Yes, and a lot of draft analysts tend to overvalue BPM. Including me and that lead me pick my horses like Franz Wagner, Walker Kessler, Keegan Murray, Cam Thomas, Sensabaugh and so forth.

But it’s just one tool, you still need to understand the game and how certain traits translate in context. Take Zhaire Smith, for example. He had a 10 BPM (i believe our FO also did put a lot of value on his BPM), but his skill set wasn’t valued to his position, nor did he have the traits of a future NBA star. I see a similar case with VJ Edgecombe right now.

To me, BPM is just an indicator of impact+box score, not a definitive measure of future success. In Bailey’s case, it suggests he might be an empty calorie scorer. Same MAYBE goes for guys like Anthony Edwards or Jaylen Brown early on, they posted inefficient scoring numbers, which BPM picked up on. But again, context matters.

Please, I have nightmares about us passing on SGA. I wanted him so bad. That was the dumbest thing this franchise did, along with other things. We also let Bridges go cause we thought we were so smart.

2018 was one of the worse years for this franchise, with alot more. It's just hard for me to trust them at this point, but at least Morey can draft.

[Mik317]

I've been reading, but u guys are killing me.

VJ would be nice, but overkill with our backcourt. We barely can get McCain mins, sure getting rid of the other guards is an option, but at some point you can have too many guards and noone to rebound, block shots, steals, etc.

We have noone on this team that is tall, other than Jojo and PG, maybe. At some point we need someone tall.

TBF VJ and Grimes do rebound and block shots and gets steals tho. McCain is a sneaky good rebounder too.

reaching on position with a gift horse top 3 pick is bad imo. If the best guy is a guard, you make it work even if just in the short term.

We played Kyle Lowry and Eric Gordon major minutes during the attempting to win period of the season...never will take having too many guards for granted again lol

[Covi_Marsh]

My optimistic floor for him is athletic Michael Porter Jr with Jonathan Isaac defense. I saw he ran a 2.8 shuttle run. That’s elite for 6’9 wing.

Do you know know and remember how ridiculously good of a shooter Porter is and was in College and in HS?

Outrageous comparison based around nothing but manifestation.

Porter is also a legit 6'10 and not a fugazi 6'10 like Ace. Porter measured out 6'9.5 barefoot at the combine, Ace is 6'7.5.

I meant post back injury. The version that got paid by Denver and contributed to a championship. Also this height infatuation is crazy lol. He has a 7’0.5 wingspan and 8’11 standing reach. Who cares that his head only 6’7.5? Michael Porter Jr has a long head so that probably gave him an extra inch lol. Porter jr wingspan is 7’0.25 although his standing reach is 9’0.5

[Negrodamus]

In fairness to Givony a lot of people had a lot of questions about Tatum headed into that draft. This isn't comparing them now, it's comparing them when they entered the draft. Tatum wasn't considered a substantially better prospect when he came out than Bailey is now. Maybe a little better, but not a lot.

Considered by whom? Statistically and eye test, Tatum was a far superior player at Duke than Ace was this year.

A lot of people thought Tatum had a low ceiling in that draft. In this draft a lot of people think Bailey is really raw and has a lot of untapped potential with a high ceiling. So it depends on how they're evaluating the prospect.

I don't think the number of people now talking about where they could see Bailey's ceiling is substantially different than where a lot of people thought Tatum's ceiling would be during his draft process. I'm not sure they are the best comparison, but it's certainly a better comparison than the Durant one people have made, which is asinine.

As one of the people in the minority banging the drum for Tatum at the time, I absolutely don't see the comparison between the two other than size. Tatum showed more distribution, defensive disruption, and 3 level scoring ability than Ace ever did. As I've stated before, ripped the alpha scoring responsibilities out of the hands of Grayson Allen and Luke Kennard. Culminated into a 19ppg scorer in March where he played his best ball. Ace withered into nothing by February.