SAS/NOP: Keldon & 14 for Herb?

[djFan71]

Simple trade with SAS & NOP: Keldon Johnson & 14 for Herb

SAS gets an elite 3&D / off Keldon $.
NOP gets the lotto pick while they figure out a direction.

I really have no idea if that's something either side would entertain, so just throwing it out there.

[Godaddycurse]

i imagine other teams would offer more

[babyjax13]

Herb and 7 for 2?

[balsamic_ducks]

It would probably take 14 just to dump Keldon’s money into capspace let alone add a great role player

[gswhoops]

It would probably take 14 just to dump Keldon’s money into capspace let alone add a great role player

That's a bit too far in the other direction. Keldon's deal is only a couple of million over the MLE.

I think the Nets, for example, would happily trade the 26th pick and cap space for Keldon and the 14th pick if it were on the table.

[Texas Chuck]

It would probably take 14 just to dump Keldon’s money into capspace let alone add a great role player

That's a bit too far in the other direction. Keldon's deal is only a couple of million over the MLE.

I think the Nets, for example, would happily trade the 26th pick and cap space for Keldon and the 14th pick if it were on the table.

Agreed. And its the double counting where they are ignoring Herb's money leaving. So nobody is asking them to take Keldon into cap space they don't even have.

It's not a deal they should make, but that's not how salary matching works and its too small a contract to a useful bench scorer to demand a lottery pick just for his inclusion.

[wemby]

I like Herb and on paper value isn´t off, but Spurs have plenty of defensive upside and are extremely lacking in the shooting department. There are lots of interesting wings at 14 or lower who project as high level defenders (not Herb level, but very good) and much better outlook as shooters.

[One_and_Done]

Spurs take this and run.

[ReggiesKnicks]

Herb is the finishing brushstroke on a contender, but I don't think the Spurs are at that level yet. If they make another all-in move and retain #14, this could be acceptable.

I believe Keldon is extremely bad as a contract, but not talked about enough. He is a minimum-level player making 17.5 million each of the next two seasons. Short wings who can't defend, can't shoot, can't dribble, and can't pass aren't sought-after commodities in the NBA.

[One_and_Done]

Herb is the finishing brushstroke on a contender, but I don't think the Spurs are at that level yet. If they make another all-in move and retain #14, this could be acceptable.

I believe Keldon is extremely bad as a contract, but not talked about enough. He is a minimum-level player making 17.5 million each of the next two seasons. Short wings who can't defend, can't shoot, can't dribble, and can't pass aren't sought-after commodities in the NBA.

He's 6-5 and has a wingspan an inch longer than 6-6 Jimmy Butler (based on his combine measurements). I'm not sure I'd say he was undersized, he just doesn't have ideal size. His shooting and handling isn't bad, it just isn't good. $17.5 mill in today's league is over 14 mill. In that context it's arguable whether he's overpaid by much.

The Spurs don't need to attach anything to move Keldon; someone will take him. That said, unless there is someone they love at #14 like this for SA provided they are confident Jones can go back to hitting open 3s.

[ReggiesKnicks]

$17.5 mill in today's league is over 14 mill. In that context it's arguable whether he's overpaid by much.

What does this mean?

He is a minimum-level player. 400-600 rankings in RAPM every year. He was decent in 2022, but since then, he has been horrible, which is 3 seasons' worth of play.

The Spurs don't need to attach anything to move Keldon; someone will take him. That said, unless there is someone they love at #14 like this for SA provided they are confident Jones can go back to hitting open 3s.

No they wouldn't. Nobody would take him for free at his number.

[wemby]

The Spurs don't need to attach anything to move Keldon; someone will take him. That said, unless there is someone they love at #14 like this for SA provided they are confident Jones can go back to hitting open 3s.

Spurs easily moved Zach Collins who was on a WORSE contract and is a MUCH WORSE player than Keldon, who has his shortcomings but get a much worse rep than he deserves. Spurs would have no problem moving Keldon if they wanted to, probably not get much in return if anything, but he's definitely not an "extremely bad contract" by any stretch of the imagination, I don't think that tag can be applied to a 2 year contract that's 20% above the MLE for a guy who is available and can score close to 20 PPG on about average efficiency if given the opportunity.

[One_and_Done]

$17.5 mill in today's league is over 14 mill. In that context it's arguable whether he's overpaid by much.

What does this mean?

He is a minimum-level player. 400-600 rankings in RAPM every year. He was decent in 2022, but since then, he has been horrible, which is 3 seasons' worth of play.

The Spurs don't need to attach anything to move Keldon; someone will take him. That said, unless there is someone they love at #14 like this for SA provided they are confident Jones can go back to hitting open 3s.

No they wouldn't. Nobody would take him for free at his number.

Yeh, I disagree. Nets or Hornets for eg would have happily take him for free.

[Texas Chuck]

$17.5 mill in today's league is over 14 mill. In that context it's arguable whether he's overpaid by much.

What does this mean?

He is a minimum-level player. 400-600 rankings in RAPM every year. He was decent in 2022, but since then, he has been horrible, which is 3 seasons' worth of play.

The Spurs don't need to attach anything to move Keldon; someone will take him. That said, unless there is someone they love at #14 like this for SA provided they are confident Jones can go back to hitting open 3s.

No they wouldn't. Nobody would take him for free at his number.

Yeh, I disagree. Nets or Hornets for eg would have happily take him for free.

They definitely shouldn't do that. He doesn't help either team and there is meaningful opportunity cost to doing that. He's fine as salary matching with incentive attached. Nobody would sign him to that contract as a free agent this summer so you aren't getting a get out of jail free play here.

[Chinook]

Whether you like him as a rotation player or not, Keldon's been great in the locker room and has caught fire a few times to help the Spurs win games. Even if this deal would result in Keldon being the fifth forward and often on the deep bench, it's better than just not having him.

Regardless, I don't think this thread should be so focused on Keldon when the Spurs have other ways to match the salary. Herb literally fits into the MLE, so the Pelicans don't have to take back any salary at all.

So why not just Jones for 14, with the Pelicans getting a TE they can roll into a bigger deal if they so choose (since the deal can't actually be finalized until after the moratorium anyway)?

[Texas Chuck]

Whether you like him as a rotation player or not, Keldon's been great in the locker room and has caught fire a few times to help the Spurs win games. Even if this deal would result in Keldon being the fifth forward and often on the deep bench, it's better than just not having him.

Regardless, I don't think this thread should be so focused on Keldon when the Spurs have other ways to match the salary. Herb literally fits into the MLE, so the Pelicans don't have to take back any salary at all.

So why not just Jones for 14, with the Pelicans getting a TE they can roll into a bigger deal if they so choose (since the deal can't actually be finalized until after the moratorium anyway)?

Definitely a smart adjustment to the deal. I still wouldn't deal Jones for just 14, but its a better offer to be sure.

[Scoot McGroot]

Herb’s worth more than 14, straight up. Adding Keldon doesn’t help a package value.

[ReggiesKnicks]

$17.5 mill in today's league is over 14 mill. In that context it's arguable whether he's overpaid by much.

What does this mean?

He is a minimum-level player. 400-600 rankings in RAPM every year. He was decent in 2022, but since then, he has been horrible, which is 3 seasons' worth of play.

The Spurs don't need to attach anything to move Keldon; someone will take him. That said, unless there is someone they love at #14 like this for SA provided they are confident Jones can go back to hitting open 3s.

No they wouldn't. Nobody would take him for free at his number.

Yeh, I disagree. Nets or Hornets for eg would have happily take him for free.

I understand wanting to be correct on the internet, but you are truly just burying your head in the sand when being presented by facts.

[One_and_Done]

What does this mean?

He is a minimum-level player. 400-600 rankings in RAPM every year. He was decent in 2022, but since then, he has been horrible, which is 3 seasons' worth of play.



No they wouldn't. Nobody would take him for free at his number.

Yeh, I disagree. Nets or Hornets for eg would have happily take him for free.

I understand wanting to be correct on the internet, but you are truly just burying your head in the sand when being presented by facts.

We just disagree on Keldon's value. Not everyone is so focussed on advanced stats. Keldon coming off a team's bench is fine, and he'd likely start for say Charlotte or Brooklyn

As I said, this is still a favourable deal for SA either way.

[Texas Chuck]

Ignoring advanced stats isn't going to make a team take that contract off the Spurs for free.

I get it we love our guys and you see only the useful things he does while ignoring the all the reasons why he isn't worth the money. Totally fine to do as a fan rooting for a team, but not really serving you well on this board where we evaluate the player's actual value around the league.

Klay Thompson is more useful than Keldon Johnson to winning teams. But teams aren't lining up to take that contract off Dallas' hands and its smaller than Johnson's. And he's far more playable because he has some of the same weaknesses, but one really valuable strength that is a value add to players he shares the court with. Johnson is just a low efficiency possession eater for a 2nd unit. Those guys can be had anywhere.