2024/25 College basketball / NBA draft thread

[Pacers Forever]

I’ve not watched any draft prospect videos yet. Remember that last year as we got closer to the draft players made some moves up or down based on workouts. I remember initially the Purdue center was a second round pick on mock drafts and I was thinking no way with his height and experience and he made it to the lottery.

[JMaster5K]

TheAthletic has Beringer (Bear-In-Jay) falling to us at 23.

Ive done a bunch of youtube watching and the two players that constantly jump out at me are Adou Thiero and Rasheer Fleming.

Just from watching this season and then these playoffs league wide, seems to me we could add some length to the defensive wings and players who aren't afraid to be physical. But also players that can shoot to fit our style.

You ask earlier if there were any potential draftees I was watching,... and I completely misread that question & never answered,... sorry. I apologize...

First,... I don't completely agree with Sam Vecenie's take on this draft,... His latest article on the athletic said teams don't think this draft is loaded and that they don't think it will bring 'average value' from around pick 3, on. His take doesn't completely contradict everything I've read about 2025 over the last 2 years, but most of the draft sites have said that they believe 2025 will have 3-5 picks at the top of the draft that are not generational talents, but franchise talents that you can build around,... think 1 step lower than Wemby?

(Though I have to admit,... Vecenie is a guy I follow because his takes are from his actual experience,... and he is right, way more often than he is wrong. His podcast with Coach Spins - before Spins was hired by the 76er's, had incredible insight into how to see potential NBA players.)

So, at the top, this draft has more than usual high end talent, just not as high as a 'generational talent',... then this draft lacks a 'middle class',... there aren't 8-10 picks of guys that are starter level players with the potential to be more,... but this draft is deeper with guys who are legit, NBA role-players at the top of the bench or fill out a starting unit. I see guys going into the second round that can be consistent, every game, 20+ minute a night guys that you rely on,... starting in the 26-27 season. Most drafts don't have that level of 'floor' depth.

Second,... I don't think we are really going to get a sense of order among the draftees until the combine? This year more than most, we don't have a real sense of who is or is not a real NBA, baseline level athlete? Some of the draftees are going to be like Shep,... so skilled that you don't realize just how athletic they are. Others are going to have great production at a college level, but they just don't have the athletic 'minimum' to compete in the NBA. We get some of this every year, but this year, it feels to me like a much larger portion of the draft pool is going to have these sorts of questions, which are as yet unknown?

This, at least IMO, has been what has lead to mock draft boards being all over the place so far,... we've seen more movement than normal during the season, during the tournament, and it's likely to continue through the draft process.....

Having said that,......

You hit on 2 of the players I really like,... Adou Theiro & Fleming....

1 of the guys I liked the best was Carter Bryant,.... He's like a bigger, stronger, more physical version of Jarace, with a less developed offensive game, but coming from playing the last 2 years in a legit NBA style defense instead of Houston's hedge defense. One former scout/coach described him (after the tournament) as an NBA defensive 'monster' right now, but with a lot of coaching needed to get his offensive game to the point where he has to be guarded.

Thiero is (for me), like a poor-man's version of Bryant. He's not as athletic as Bryant, but should be a + NBA level athlete? (this needs to be proven at the combine. It isn't certain.) He is a defense first guys,... who came off the bench at Arkansas to be their defensive stopper,.. on anyone. He played the point on defense,... and he played against 5's. He's really a long, wing defender,.. that in the NBA, if he is long enough (again, needs to be proven), could be that big wing, defensive stopper, that we've all said the Pacer still need,... but can he shoot?...can he shoot well enough that our coaches can help him fix the rest?... does he have the floor skill to actually stay on the floor? He didn't play enough at Ark, on the offense, to see what his potential really is?

Fleming to me is a seemingly more athletic (if you can believe it) version of Antonio Davis,... with the a consistent jump shot. Having said that,.. he's still a bit raw in his overall game. His court awareness needs work,... that usually comes with experience & coaching. HIs court vision is actually pretty good,.. but his decision making speed needs some work,... (.8 A to TO ratio),... It doesn't look like he isn't processing, or doesn't understand what he sees,... but more like he's slow at making the read & the play because he still has to think about what to do, instead of just doing it? (if that make sense?) so it's likely that it's just an experience thing,... and he will grow into a more fluid player?

Other guys I like,.. that seem to be moving up draft boards, and may be out of our range? Colin Murray-Bowles, Beringer, Essengue, Clifford, Lendeborg, Saraf, Penda, Also, Sorber, Wolf, Condon, Broome,..

This draft seems to be particularly deep with 3/4 big wings that can defend, and 4/5 combos, which is really good for the Pacers,... either would really help our depth & rotation. Are the 3/4's big enough & athletic enough to defend big wings in the NBA? Do the 4/5's have enough foot quickness to switch out & defend on the perimeter? We just aren't going to know with any sense of surety until the combine?

1 I am particularly watching is Asa Newell. He is essentially, a more athletic version of Derrick McKey. Though he is more physical player than McKey. He is more raw than many of the other draftees. He's been one of the bigger movers in the mock drafts. He started the season in the lottery,... dropped a little bit to end of the lottery,.... been up & down a little in that area,... but with the movement of other players up the board,... has dropped. Now some of the mocks have him in the late teens to early 20's. He is not a 4/5 combo, but has the achievable potential to be a 3/4 combo that can defend 1 - stretch 5.

Another guy I'm watching, so far, isn't on any of the mocks,... Grant Nelson from Alabama. He's a 6'10" combo forward. He isn't long enough to be a 4/5,.. but again, he's a long 3/4. He was projected as a first rounder 2 years ago when he played for ND state. (late first) He went to the combine (23-24), showed legit length for a 4, (measures very similarly to Pascal), average verticality,... 35.5 max vertical, but 32" no jump vertical - which is very good) and very fast feet & hands. His lane agility & 3/4 court speed were in line with most SG's. He didn't test the shuttle run,... but did it at a pro day & again,.. it was in line with guards,.. not 6'10" forwards.

He transferred to Bama,... (one of the those promised NIL money when it came about) then kinda got lost in their system? the way Bama plays doesn't really fit Nelson's athletic profile or skillset, and he's been in school now 5 years, which makes him 1 of the older potential draftees. He has been invited to the combine this year,.. so it will be interesting to see how he compares to 2 years ago? and see if he starts to get any discussion as the draft process works through?

At this point, I like this draft for us,... in any case, it's going to be interesting. Feels like there is going to be quite a bit of roster movement across the league this off season,.. with some of that influencing the draft?

What do you guys think?....

[Grang33r]

You ask earlier if there were any potential draftees I was watching,... and I completely misread that question & never answered,... sorry. I apologize...

haha no worries!

Having said that,......

You hit on 2 of the players I really like,... Adou Theiro & Fleming....

1 of the guys I liked the best was Carter Bryant,.... He's like a bigger, stronger, more physical version of Jarace, with a less developed offensive game, but coming from playing the last 2 years in a legit NBA style defense instead of Houston's hedge defense. One former scout/coach described him (after the tournament) as an NBA defensive 'monster' right now, but with a lot of coaching needed to get his offensive game to the point where he has to be guarded.

Thiero is (for me), like a poor-man's version of Bryant. He's not as athletic as Bryant, but should be a + NBA level athlete? (this needs to be proven at the combine. It isn't certain.) He is a defense first guys,... who came off the bench at Arkansas to be their defensive stopper,.. on anyone. He played the point on defense,... and he played against 5's. He's really a long, wing defender,.. that in the NBA, if he is long enough (again, needs to be proven), could be that big wing, defensive stopper, that we've all said the Pacer still need,... but can he shoot?...can he shoot well enough that our coaches can help him fix the rest?... does he have the floor skill to actually stay on the floor? He didn't play enough at Ark, on the offense, to see what his potential really is?

Fleming to me is a seemingly more athletic (if you can believe it) version of Antonio Davis,... with the a consistent jump shot. Having said that,.. he's still a bit raw in his overall game. His court awareness needs work,... that usually comes with experience & coaching. HIs court vision is actually pretty good,.. but his decision making speed needs some work,... (.8 A to TO ratio),... It doesn't look like he isn't processing, or doesn't understand what he sees,... but more like he's slow at making the read & the play because he still has to think about what to do, instead of just doing it? (if that make sense?) so it's likely that it's just an experience thing,... and he will grow into a more fluid player?

Other guys I like,.. that seem to be moving up draft boards, and may be out of our range? Colin Murray-Bowles, Beringer, Essengue, Clifford, Lendeborg, Saraf, Penda, Also, Sorber, Wolf, Condon, Broome,..

This draft seems to be particularly deep with 3/4 big wings that can defend, and 4/5 combos, which is really good for the Pacers,... either would really help our depth & rotation. Are the 3/4's big enough & athletic enough to defend big wings in the NBA? Do the 4/5's have enough foot quickness to switch out & defend on the perimeter? We just aren't going to know with any sense of surety until the combine?

1 I am particularly watching is Asa Newell. He is essentially, a more athletic version of Derrick McKey. Though he is more physical player than McKey. He is more raw than many of the other draftees. He's been one of the bigger movers in the mock drafts. He started the season in the lottery,... dropped a little bit to end of the lottery,.... been up & down a little in that area,... but with the movement of other players up the board,... has dropped. Now some of the mocks have him in the late teens to early 20's. He is not a 4/5 combo, but has the achievable potential to be a 3/4 combo that can defend 1 - stretch 5.

Another guy I'm watching, so far, isn't on any of the mocks,... Grant Nelson from Alabama. He's a 6'10" combo forward. He isn't long enough to be a 4/5,.. but again, he's a long 3/4. He was projected as a first rounder 2 years ago when he played for ND state. (late first) He went to the combine (23-24), showed legit length for a 4, (measures very similarly to Pascal), average verticality,... 35.5 max vertical, but 32" no jump vertical - which is very good) and very fast feet & hands. His lane agility & 3/4 court speed were in line with most SG's. He didn't test the shuttle run,... but did it at a pro day & again,.. it was in line with guards,.. not 6'10" forwards.

Awesome man, thanks. Some of those guys i like as well, such as Bryant but i didnt put much time into watching any tape besides quick read because it seems like hes a consensus top-10 pick. I don't know if he's what we need size wise, i know we need to add longer wings with big wing spans, but i love Murray-Bowles. I think he's got a little bit of Ron Artest in him.[/quote]

At this point, I like this draft for us,... in any case, it's going to be interesting. Feels like there is going to be quite a bit of roster movement across the league this off season,.. with some of that influencing the draft?

Same, however i still think we trade the pick.

[JMaster5K]

You ask earlier if there were any potential draftees I was watching,... and I completely misread that question & never answered,... sorry. I apologize...

haha no worries!

Having said that,......

You hit on 2 of the players I really like,... Adou Theiro & Fleming....

Awesome man, thanks. Some of those guys i like as well, such as Bryant but i didnt put much time into watching any tape besides quick read because it seems like hes a consensus top-10 pick. I don't know if he's what we need size wise, i know we need to add longer wings with big wing spans, but i love Murray-Bowles. I think he's got a little bit of Ron Artest in him.

At this point, I like this draft for us,... in any case, it's going to be interesting. Feels like there is going to be quite a bit of roster movement across the league this off season,.. with some of that influencing the draft?

Same, however i still think we trade the pick.

I get the feeling that our FO knows it can be selective this year? I think there are a couple of salaries that they need to clear to comfortably resign Myles,... and we have a couple of guys that seem ready to move up, or move on? who could start for many teams? Which is a long way of saying,... that if somebody they specifically want comes into a place where they can get them,... they will. But if that doesn't happen, we won't be drafting just to add young talent & would trade the pick for something next year? (or in some scenarios, possible even both?)

I would agree with you on Murray-Bowles. I wasn't high on him at the start of the season,... He seemed like a younger version of PJ Washington? but he started to show from mid-season on,. that he is a better athlete than PJ,.. capable of defending 3's & even switching onto 2's for a bit when needed? He does give strong Ron Artest vibes.

Bryant is all over on many of the mocks,... some (that haven't really updated since mid-season) still show him early in the second round! but the ones I trust more have moved him up into the late lottery,.. if he tests better than expected,.. I could see him going even up to the mid lottery?

been playing around with the mock draft tool on Fanspo over the last couple of days,....

https://fanspo.com/nba/mock-draft-simulator

I'm starting to see what, I think, Vecenie meant in his article,... that because of where teams are drafting & where draftees are ranking on boards, the fit, after the first 2 or 3 picks, gets really questionable? So, we should either see more movement than normal around the mid-to-late lottery, or teams drafting guys that don't have as much value (for them) as you would expect at that particular pick?

[Wizop]

Watch on YouTube

[Grang33r]

Watch on YouTube

My biggest takeaway from this video is this kid just began to play basketball for the first time in 2021. He was so raw/new to the sport he needed to play with 10-11 year olds to learn the basics and rules. For me, thats a red flag. NBA is a massive jump and that lack of experience i don't think you can overcome.

[JMaster5K]

Watch on YouTube

My biggest takeaway from this video is this kid just began to play basketball for the first time in 2021. He was so raw/new to the sport he needed to play with 10-11 year olds to learn the basics and rules. For me, thats a red flag. NBA is a massive jump and that lack of experience i don't think you can overcome.

based on this,... have to believe that he is very much a developmental prospect at this point,... but he has excellent athleticism,... and the skills he does have look good. To me, he's a legit 1st rounder,... quite a bit like Jonathan Bender,... but he's playing against age appropriate competition (now - not earlier - LOL) instead of trying to be an NBA player at 18, while his body is still growing. Hopefully, that prevents him from having the same sort of knee issues that derailed Bender?

His defensive positioning looks really good,... probably from EU football,... where you defend the goal on the pitch by managing your angles, just like you do on the basketball court? looks really fluid, & quick to flip his hips,... which is huge on defense (Ask OB1?....) Offensively, he's got good hands,... but everything else needs work. He's not a guy that is 2 years away, from being 2 years away,.... but he is going to need a couple of years of development before he starts to contribute? Having said that,... his overall ceiling is probably much higher than a pick in the mid 20's,.. but that seems a likely spot for him?

[Wizop]

He's not a guy that is 2 years away, from being 2 years away

even if he is, we only need a backup center - maybe even a third center.

[JMaster5K]

He's not a guy that is 2 years away, from being 2 years away

even if he is, we only need a backup center - maybe even a third center.

If there aren't any of the big wings that could have value at 23 available,... I'd have no issues with taking him. He would likely be ready about the time Myles next contract is up?

[Scoot McGroot]

From Mike Scotto on BlueSky:

International NBA Draft prospects Noa Essengue, Nolan Traore, Ben Saraf, Hugo Gonzalez, Joan Beringer, Noah Penda and Bogoljub Markovic are not at the combine while playing with their professional clubs, but they're expected to complete their pre-draft activities at a later date.

[JMaster5K]

NBA website had the official numbers for the anthro portion of the combine up, last night,.. but took them down again. Here's a link to unofficial measurements if anyone wants to see them?

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/news/nba-draft-combine-results-height-wingspan-measurements/cc328a555b744275ba6c7166

[Wizop]

I hope we can get Ryan on a two-way to compete with Ray J

Watch on YouTube

[JMaster5K]

I hope we can get Ryan on a two-way to compete with Ray J

Watch on YouTube

If he can be TJ's understudy for a a couple of years,... until TJ is ready to retire? (next season TJ is 33.) In this offense,... the way he plays on defense,... he could be our 3rd PG for a decade?....

[JMaster5K]

TJ McConnell (2015 combine)
Height (without shoes): 6' 0.5''
Standing Reach: 8' 0.5''
Weight: 187.8 lbs
Wingspan: 6' 2''
Hand Length: 7.50″
Hand Width: 7.00″
Wingspan Differential: 1.5″

Ryan Nembhard (2025 Combine)
Height (without shoes): 5’11.00
Standing Reach: 7’10.00
Weight: 175.8 lbs
Wingspan: 6’2.25
Hand Length: 9.5″
Hand Width: 8.25″
Wingspan Differential: 3.25″

[Helsbyte]

Was looking at the draft order and was wondering if the Pacers would have any thoughts of trading down. Brooklyn has 2 picks at the end of the draft and Charlotte has 2 early 2nd rd picks. I am liking Broome and Reynuard more than anyone at 23. Thoughts?

[Wizop]

Was looking at the draft order and was wondering if the Pacers would have any thoughts of trading down. Brooklyn has 2 picks at the end of the draft and Charlotte has 2 early 2nd rd picks. I am liking Broome and Reynuard more than anyone at 23. Thoughts?

I can see trading our 2025 FRP for a 2026 FRP as we don't have a pick next year and may not have a roster spot this year. but if a developmental center is on the board at 23, I take him. I'm a Ryan Nembhard fan in the 2nd round.

[JMaster5K]

Was looking at the draft order and was wondering if the Pacers would have any thoughts of trading down. Brooklyn has 2 picks at the end of the draft and Charlotte has 2 early 2nd rd picks. I am liking Broome and Reynuard more than anyone at 23. Thoughts?

I can see trading our 2025 FRP for a 2026 FRP as we don't have a pick next year and may not have a roster spot this year. but if a developmental center is on the board at 23, I take him. I'm a Ryan Nembhard fan in the 2nd round.

I've not been high on Broome? though, if I'm honest, it's likely cause I'm not an Auburn fan? Like the coach,... the players,.. just not a fan of what they've brought to the league over the last decade? Broome is a case in point,... at the combine, he measured smaller than expected, and likely is going to have to play a majority of his time at the 4, even coming off the bench. He also tested less athletic than expected? (as did most of the center's this year?) I can see Broome being your 3rd center, for when you need some bench offense at the rim, for maybe 3-8 minutes a game,.. at the most? He's skilled,... but he is going to get flown over, run around,... and run through, even by bench, full minutes role players?

Reynaud, I like,... he quick enough & fast enough to get up & down the floor. He can put on some rim pressure. He's got good movement skills & a surprisingly good handle for a 7'0" guy. Again,.. he isn't very vertical? He's got the same standing reach as Stix,.... but not as good a no-step vertical or max vertical? Can he defend the rim? idk? If so,... he could be a good backup.

Still looking at Beringer? From a couple of the comments from teams here in EU? He could easily be a draft & stash? Getting him this year when's a good value in the late first,... then work with his EU team (KK Cedevita) to bring him over next year, or the year after when he's ready to be Myles full time backup?.... the nice part,.. we would retain his draft rights, of course,.. but we wouldn't have to pay him until he signed his contract & was ready to play? (would work like your idea of moving 2025 for a later pick?)

2nd rounders,... Like R Nembhard,... like Yanic Konan Niederhauser,... not on any mock draft I've seen, but the best athlete among the 7-footers at the combine (compared to most years,.. he's good, above average, + NBA level athlete) who earned an invite from the G League camp. Has potential, but is raw,.. would need some coaching,.. but bigger than Stix,.. almost I-Jax sized,.. and on par with i-Jax as an athlete?.... (9'3" standing reach,.. i-Jax = 9'4" / 37" max vertical,... i-Jax = 36")

[Wizop]

I've not been high on Broome?

theAthletic's combine article knocks him. not tall. not a jumper.

[JMaster5K]

I've not been high on Broome?

theAthletic's combine article knocks him. not tall. not a jumper.

exactly! he's strong enough to body guys in college & get away with it,... but he won't get the same results in the NBA, and he's got nothing else in his bag?

This draft is going to be really interesting?... after the combine, there are a number of mocked first rounders,... a couple in the lottery, that I believe will drop; and a number of guys mocked in the mid-late first that will likely end up in the lottery?.... Man! this is going to be fun!

[Grang33r]

From Mike Scotto on BlueSky:

International NBA Draft prospects Noa Essengue, Nolan Traore, Ben Saraf, Hugo Gonzalez, Joan Beringer, Noah Penda and Bogoljub Markovic are not at the combine while playing with their professional clubs, but they're expected to complete their pre-draft activities at a later date.

Whats going on with this Hugo Gonzalez kid? I remember peaking at some early mocks throughout the last year and he was usually a top-12 pick. Now they're saying maybe second round.

Great value and stash him in the G League.