How does Denver retool in the offseason (Who wants Murray/MPJ?)

[Mamba Mentality]

Nuggets are pushing a 68 win team to their limits while dealing with a number of injuries. They're gonna be fine.

[tsherkin]

I've watched him plenty of times. He's good I think.

He can be. It depends which version of Murray we see. He was visibly two different guys at various points in that game. Early, he looked lost and discombobulated, unassertive and just out of the flow. Then he locked in for a bit. Then his shot selection dove in quality and he returned to bricking. He was brutal from 3. Murray's utility waxes and wanes with his jumper pretty specifically. He has struggled some to maintain a good shooting stretch in these playoffs. Obviously, OKC's defense is quite good and that is a large factor as well. But this is Murray, and his inconsistency and inability to do much of anything when his J isn't falling is a reality of him as a player.

Murray has been fine these playoffs. He's streaky, inconsistent, a little wild; the kind of player when he misses it looks really bad, but when he makes it he looks great. He's been making it enough in these playoffs to be a viable second option. The only 2nd options who have averaged more ppg in these playoffs are Franz, Lebron, and Randle. The Nuggets are playing one of the greatest defensive teams in NBA history, getting guarded almost exclusively by Lu Dort and Alex Caruso (nbd, just two of the best perimeter defender EVER). Before OKC, they drew the Clippers, the 3rd ranked defense this year, and had Kris Dunn assigned to him. Against the Clippers Murray averaged 23ppg on 48/40/89 spits and added 6 assists per game.

Yep, he was solid against the Clippers, apart from disastrous shooting performances in Game 1 and 4... and he was pretty decent in Game 1 overall, just couldn't buy a bucket inside the 3pt line.

Then with MPJ, he's playing with 1 arm and still able to hit 2 threes per game. This team doesn't another 6'10" shooter to replace him. People scream for Julia Strawther, but there's zero evidence that he's ready to contribute to a playoff team in extended minutes. The Nuggets unfortunately need MPJ as he is. He's way overpaid, but it's not the time to bag on his play.

MPJ should be sitting, is the problem. I suspect that's more an issue of absent depth than anything else. He is actively harming their ability to win right now. He has been an absolute dumpster fire in this series. He is legit 12/42 from the field, 7/27 from 3, and he hasn't been playing particularly good defense. He needs to be glued to the bench in a suit until he's healthy enough not to be a waste of everyone's time. They don't need another 6'10 shooter; his height isn't the most important thing in the world. They just need someone who can shoot competently. Normally, he does that fairly well. Outside of the Finals vs. Miami (where it didn't affect the outcome) and last year versus the Wolves (where it was certainly a factor), he's generally been quite a good performer.

He's injured, for sure, but he's been brutally useless, so he shouldn't be playing right now.

The Nuggets are pretty good. They're showing their offensive resilience, and and ability to dial up the defense to a strong playoff level. Same as always, they need depth. If there's a trade out there that can increase their overall talent and depth, then yeah do it. I agree Murray and MPJ are overpaid, but I don't agree they aren't good or that it's simple to acquire a player better than them.

Yeah, rushing a move for the sake of a move would still be the wrong path forward. They need to think about this sensibly. MPJ is frustrating, for example, but there's an explanation. Murray is frustrating, but if he were better than he is now, he'd be a very different tier of player.

The problem in this particular game was that everyone was bricking but Jokic, basically. Braun was excellent on D but couldn't buy a shot to save his life. He started well from 3 in the 1st, and was 0/4 from 3 over the remaining 3 quarters, and 1/4 inside the arc. Missed that dunk attempt. AG had a quiet night. MPJ was useless. Westbrook was Bad Russ / Westbrick last night. Watson was 1/4 and got a crapload of fouls early. And Murray's overall performance was quite problematic. He was useless in the 1st, got himself sorted in the middle quarters and then gassed out in the 4th and was terrible. And yeah, literally only Jokic hit FGs in that quarter until Murray made a pointless shot with like 20 seconds to go.

So that was systemic breakdown, and not all of it was from the OKC defense. A lot of it was just missing wide-open shots.

[mcmurphy]

WTF?!
Murray is a superstar in Denver carrying Jokic through playoffs and in LAL it's not worth Reaves

I'd trade Reaves+Rui for Murray definitely. I think Murray is very underrated around here.

I think you onlz watched Murray when he was hot vs the Lakers and even then zou might have watched only the highlights because he was garbage the last series they played.

Murray is god only if remain with Nuggets to blame Jokic... if you propone a switch with the second banana of other teams automatically becomes what it really is.

[Black Jack]

I feel like MPJ to the Knicks is almost inevitable at some point. his type of injury prone scorer profile is catnip to NYK.

[MarcusBrody]

Nuggets are pushing a 68 win team to their limits while dealing with a number of injuries. They're gonna be fine.

Exactly. If they can find a lucky depth piece or two, they will remain competitive as long as Jokic can play at a high level. The Thunder won 68 games and graded out statistically as one of the best teams ever. The Clippers - once Kawhi got healthy - finished the year playing as well as anyone in the league. The Nuggets have looked competitive with both.

The Nuggets really could use a secondary star who could create offense without a Jokic screen, but those players aren't cheap, so they'll likely have to make do.

MPJ's shoulder injury really hurt them. Even more than his shooting, there's been multiple moments where he hasn't been able to secure a ball that he'd otherwise have grabbed. I was actually impressed this year how he appeared to work hard to improve his non-shooting impact. He rebounded well, played somewhat better defense, added at least basic drives off pump fakes when catching on the perimeter. Basically all that has gone away due to the shoulder. The shooting has been a big negative as that's what they count on him for, but the shoulder really has hurt his overall contribution.

I just don't see how the Nuggets get substantially better by trading Murray/MPJ. I can't imagine who would give positive value for them and their contracts, inconsistency, and drop off in efficiency when Jokic is off the floor (especially Murray).

[Woodsanity]

I feel like MPJ to the Knicks is almost inevitable at some point. his type of injury prone scorer profile is catnip to NYK.

He wouldn't even be qualified to be a starter on the Knicks.

[Black Jack]

I feel like MPJ to the Knicks is almost inevitable at some point. his type of injury prone scorer profile is catnip to NYK.

He wouldn't even be qualified to be a starter on the Knicks.

Dolan gonna max him out bro

[Ssj16]

We praising players for playing well in a losing effort. Wow how the standards have changed.

This is the standard for the best player in the world?

Jokic scored 13 points on 4-6 shooting in the last quarter.

His teammates score 6 points on 1-18 shooting in the last quarter. That one solitary FG came when the game was over in the final 15 seconds.

Your post is an absolute joke. Do better next time.

Hold the L.

Hopefully Jokic and his teammates play better next time.

Weren't you the poster who guaranteed that the Lakers would make the finals with Luka on the team?

I guess Luka and Lebron are really holding that L, getting demolished in the first round if Jokic is holding an L for his game 5 performance.

[JustBuzzin]

Jokic scored 13 points on 4-6 shooting in the last quarter.

His teammates score 6 points on 1-18 shooting in the last quarter. That one solitary FG came when the game was over in the final 15 seconds.

Your post is an absolute joke. Do better next time.

Hold the L.

Hopefully Jokic and his teammates play better next time.

Weren't you the poster who guaranteed that the Lakers would make the finals with Luka on the team?

I guess Luka and Lebron are really holding that L, getting demolished in the first round if Jokic is holding an L for his game 5 performance.

Who is talking about the Lakers bro?

[Ssj16]

Hold the L.

Hopefully Jokic and his teammates play better next time.

Weren't you the poster who guaranteed that the Lakers would make the finals with Luka on the team?

I guess Luka and Lebron are really holding that L, getting demolished in the first round if Jokic is holding an L for his game 5 performance.

Who is talking about the Lakers bro?

Lmao, this is rich coming from the guy bringing Jokic game 5 when the thread is about improving the Nuggets.

[kazyv]

Someone will take a chance on Murray. He was bad yesterday but he has a history of being a good player, especially in the playoffs.
MPJ is another story. In theory, he's a valuable player. Tall floor spacer that can rebound pretty well. But he's as streaky as they come and how much of his value comes from playing next to Jokic?

in a couple years, maybe. right now, that contract is killer. you're looking at 4 years of paying him pretty much max player money. how are you supposed to build around that?

[Pipp33]

If Jokic needs better teammates he needs to leave like LeBron did.

Until then play ball and get the job done. You're the best player in the world for goodness sake!

The starting 5 if fine....IF they had some depth on the bench. With MPJ and Murray's body issues, long minutes are the killer for this team in playoffs.

Front office has done a terrible job.

[Cubbies2120]

Gordon out for a few weeks (Grade 2 sprain)
MPJ with 1 arm

Minnesota, who the Nuggets have been getting owned by since last playoffs is waiting in the wings in WCF...

This season is a lost cause, but Braun stepped up big this year and is still on a rookie contract through next year, Nuggets HAVE to take advantage of that next season. Depth needs to be shored up badly...

[BigGargamel]

DeAndre Jordan
Julian Strawther
Dario Saric
Jaden Pickett
Zeke Nnaji
Hunter Tyson
Vlatko Cancar

Those would all be 12-13 men on a real playoff team, but that's half of Denver's roster. Not to mention Daron Holmes, who hasn't played all year. It's almost impressive to collect that many scrubs on one team.

[Cubbies2120]

MPJ and Murray in a crucial game 7

6 points at the half



Edit- to clarify that’s 6 COMBINED

[tsherkin]

MPJ and Murray in a crucial game 7

6 points at the half



Edit- to clarify that’s 6 COMBINED

MPJ at least has injury as an excuse, but yes, he's been horrifically bad this series apart from one game.

But let's highlight this.

Jokic is 5/9 and has been murdering it at the line.

The REST of Denver is 20/54 (37.03% FG), even with Braun shooting 7/13 and AG shooting 2/4. MPJ is 3/8 (0/4 from 3), Murray is 5/15, Watson is 0/5, Westie is 2/5, Strawther is 1/4.

It's so, so bad.

[kodo]

Probably should have done the MPJ/Lavine swap at the deadline. Lavine can't carry a team to a playoff run but if given a green light he'll generate 24+ on super high efficiency very reliably.

Chicago was one of the only teams actually interested in MPJ at the deadline, came from a solid Chicago source as well. Although having to watch Chicago basketball, kinda glad this didn't happen.

[Raps in 4]

Probably should have done the MPJ/Lavine swap at the deadline. Lavine can't carry a team to a playoff run but if given a green light he'll generate 24+ on super high efficiency very reliably.

Chicago was one of the only teams actually interested in MPJ at the deadline, came from a solid Chicago source as well. Although having to watch Chicago basketball, kinda glad this didn't happen.

LaVine is also a lot more consistent than both Murray and MPJ. All three of them are injury-prone.

[BigGargamel]

Kevin Durant isn't going to happen. Denver has no draft picks to offer.

Maybe the Hawks will want to give up Trae Young, but if so, why would they want MPJ or Murray in return? Those guys are just a worse version of Trae with bad contracts.

The best Denver is going to be able to do is swap for some other teams overpaid trash in hopes that simply having something different will unlock one more run.

In actuality, we are looking at a Bucks situation here, because Denver is literally in the worst position out of any 30 NBA teams to add talent to the roster.

Booth and company really blew it.

[zimpy27]

Maybe Denver can get Westbrook, Harden and Durant