The Tre Johnson Thread

[EmpireFalls]

Look, I like Tre. Carrying a team averaging 19 on good efficiency at 18 years old in the SEC is incredible. His shooting is undeniably elite, he made more pull-up 3s than almost anyone. Can run off screens and score too which opens up your offense. Has the gift and knack for finding space and getting a shot up.

But my oh my he is flawed.

His defense is awful and he can’t get past players who play him with any sort of physicality. If he gets to the rim in the halfcourt it’s an accident.

One of the physically weakest prospects you’ll ever see. Of course, that’s a great fit with LaMelo Ball (one of the weakest guards in the league) and Brandon Miller (one of the weakest wings in the league), both of whom struggle mightily to get to the rim. If we pick Tre Johnson or Ace Bailey our entire offense will be pull-up 25-footers.

[JMAC3]

I don't know where the fallacy of LaMelo struggles to get to the rim came from.

He was 9th in drives per game this year in the NBA.
9th in the league in pts per game off drives.
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/drives?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=DRIVES

[Braggins]

Look, I like Tre. Carrying a team averaging 19 on good efficiency at 18 years old in the SEC is incredible. His shooting is undeniably elite, he made more pull-up 3s than almost anyone. Can run off screens and score too which opens up your offense. Has the gift and knack for finding space and getting a shot up.

But my oh my he is flawed.

His defense is awful and he can’t get past players who play him with any sort of physicality. If he gets to the rim in the halfcourt it’s an accident.

One of the physically weakest prospects you’ll ever see. Of course, that’s a great fit with LaMelo Ball (one of the weakest guards in the league) and Brandon Miller (one of the weakest wings in the league), both of whom struggle mightily to get to the rim. If we pick Tre Johnson or Ace Bailey our entire offense will be pull-up 25-footers.

He did have a good combine, but hes still the guy in the convo I don't want to draft. He doesn't have good court vision. He doesn't create good shots for himself or others. He doesn't pressure the rim or draw free throws. He doesn't defend. He doesn't rebound or get steals/blocks. When hes on he can light up unlike anyone in this draft can, but outside of that his game is very limited. His perimeter scoring skill is good and the shot is legit, but the bar for how good guys like this have to be at perimeter scoring to be true impact players is super high. Maybe he is someone who can be like a Devin Booker, but idk.

The convo for me still centers around Bailey, Edgecombe, and Fears.

[JustBuzzin]

Look, I like Tre. Carrying a team averaging 19 on good efficiency at 18 years old in the SEC is incredible. His shooting is undeniably elite, he made more pull-up 3s than almost anyone. Can run off screens and score too which opens up your offense. Has the gift and knack for finding space and getting a shot up.

But my oh my he is flawed.

His defense is awful and he can’t get past players who play him with any sort of physicality. If he gets to the rim in the halfcourt it’s an accident.

One of the physically weakest prospects you’ll ever see. Of course, that’s a great fit with LaMelo Ball (one of the weakest guards in the league) and Brandon Miller (one of the weakest wings in the league), both of whom struggle mightily to get to the rim. If we pick Tre Johnson or Ace Bailey our entire offense will be pull-up 25-footers.

He did have a good combine, but hes still the guy in the convo I don't want to draft. He doesn't have good court vision. He doesn't create good shots for himself or others. He doesn't pressure the rim or draw free throws. He doesn't defend. He doesn't rebound or get steals/blocks. When hes on he can light up unlike anyone in this draft can, but outside of that his game is very limited. His perimeter scoring skill is good and the shot is legit, but the bar for how good guys like this have to be at perimeter scoring to be true impact players is super high. Maybe he is someone who can be like a Devin Booker, but idk.

The convo for me still centers around Bailey, Edgecombe, and Fears.

I like Fears, but I don't think the Hornets are realistically going to consider him because he's a PG. Feels like we are committed with Melo at PG. I could be wrong.

[Bassman]

Here’s the reality; Tre will be working out with the Sixers, Hornets, maybe the Spurs, certainly with some teams below us. As will Ace…as will VJ. If Harper is INDEED the clear #2 for whomever owns that pick, Sixers decide who we get, and it very likely may be who we’d really want the most.

My growing fear is not trusting Peterson to make the best choice. Seriously, even at 4 he could F this up.

Looking at Ace, VJ and Tre, all three have strengths that place them at the top of the mix following the top 2. Seems to be no other player other than Fears worthy of consideration at this early stage. I don’t see some foreign/French dude suddenly jumping into Jeff’s heart again, but he could still reach for someone. Hollinger’s early prediction for the Hornet’s selection is ….. K-NIPPLES . I know…sounds nuts, but could Jeffie convince himself Kon is that perfect glue guy to make this team amazing? That is my concern.

[fatlever]

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[fatlever]

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[JMAC3]

Look, I like Tre. Carrying a team averaging 19 on good efficiency at 18 years old in the SEC is incredible. His shooting is undeniably elite, he made more pull-up 3s than almost anyone. Can run off screens and score too which opens up your offense. Has the gift and knack for finding space and getting a shot up.

But my oh my he is flawed.

His defense is awful and he can’t get past players who play him with any sort of physicality. If he gets to the rim in the halfcourt it’s an accident.

One of the physically weakest prospects you’ll ever see. Of course, that’s a great fit with LaMelo Ball (one of the weakest guards in the league) and Brandon Miller (one of the weakest wings in the league), both of whom struggle mightily to get to the rim. If we pick Tre Johnson or Ace Bailey our entire offense will be pull-up 25-footers.

He did have a good combine, but hes still the guy in the convo I don't want to draft. He doesn't have good court vision. He doesn't create good shots for himself or others. He doesn't pressure the rim or draw free throws. He doesn't defend. He doesn't rebound or get steals/blocks. When hes on he can light up unlike anyone in this draft can, but outside of that his game is very limited. His perimeter scoring skill is good and the shot is legit, but the bar for how good guys like this have to be at perimeter scoring to be true impact players is super high. Maybe he is someone who can be like a Devin Booker, but idk.

The convo for me still centers around Bailey, Edgecombe, and Fears.

VJ shot 4.3 FTA per game.
Tre shot 4.2 FTA per game.
Kon shot 3.3 FTA per game
Fears 6.3 FTA per game.
Ace 3.6 FTA per game.

Idk if the numbers say Tre should be knocked for FTA, when nobody has said the same for VJ and they averaged the same.

[Braggins]

Bailey, Edgecombe, and Fears, all have multiple warts. My problem with Johnson is about his overall game and not necessarily any one specific weakness. His strengths seem the most narrow of those four and seems like he has a lot of weaknesses that are hard to project will improve for him. I also don't like his fit, which I don't think should be much of a factor, but its just kind of a bummer.

I haven't seen enough of him to be very confident about my take on him, but he definitely worries me the most.

[GoBobs]

Look, I like Tre. Carrying a team averaging 19 on good efficiency at 18 years old in the SEC is incredible. His shooting is undeniably elite, he made more pull-up 3s than almost anyone. Can run off screens and score too which opens up your offense. Has the gift and knack for finding space and getting a shot up.

But my oh my he is flawed.

His defense is awful and he can’t get past players who play him with any sort of physicality. If he gets to the rim in the halfcourt it’s an accident.

One of the physically weakest prospects you’ll ever see. Of course, that’s a great fit with LaMelo Ball (one of the weakest guards in the league) and Brandon Miller (one of the weakest wings in the league), both of whom struggle mightily to get to the rim. If we pick Tre Johnson or Ace Bailey our entire offense will be pull-up 25-footers.

Okay, but Steph Curry is one of the weakest guards in the league as well. Nothing takes the pressure off your teammates like gravity and space.

Everyone is better driving towards the rim when you have the shooting to spread the defense out.

[fatlever]

point taken, but... i dont think curry is weak at all for his size. not anymore. at 19, sure. not now.

[EmpireFalls]

Look, I like Tre. Carrying a team averaging 19 on good efficiency at 18 years old in the SEC is incredible. His shooting is undeniably elite, he made more pull-up 3s than almost anyone. Can run off screens and score too which opens up your offense. Has the gift and knack for finding space and getting a shot up.

But my oh my he is flawed.

His defense is awful and he can’t get past players who play him with any sort of physicality. If he gets to the rim in the halfcourt it’s an accident.

One of the physically weakest prospects you’ll ever see. Of course, that’s a great fit with LaMelo Ball (one of the weakest guards in the league) and Brandon Miller (one of the weakest wings in the league), both of whom struggle mightily to get to the rim. If we pick Tre Johnson or Ace Bailey our entire offense will be pull-up 25-footers.

Okay, but Steph Curry is one of the weakest guards in the league as well. Nothing takes the pressure off your teammates like gravity and space.

Everyone is better driving towards the rim when you have the shooting to spread the defense out.

a) Steph is strong af for his size. His core strength is insane and he deadlifts close to 500 lbs. this is reflected in him constantly atop the leaderboards for finishing efficiency, he’s one of the best guard finishers of all time. You don’t do that without strength and elite contact balance.

He also get beat up on the perimeter all game but can disengage from defenses easily. He’s very strong.

b) he’s also the singular best shooter of all time, and such a massive outlier that comping any prospect to him is idiotic

c) in general you should never comp prospects to all-time-great players. Tyrell Terry played a bit like Steph at Stanford in 2020. How’s that working out for him? Moratorium on comping prospects to any top 5 player please

[JMAC3]

Which lineup do you like the best?

LaMelo-Tre-Miller-Miles-Mark
- Most shooting, Good size, most playmaking, Worst defense

LaMelo- Miller-Ace-Miles-Mark
- Good shooting, Great size, least playmaking, good defense

LaMelo-VJ-Miller-Miles-Mark
- Worst shooting, smallest lineup, good playmaking, best defense

[vexco]

Which lineup do you like the best?

LaMelo-Tre-Miller-Miles-Mark
- Most shooting, Good size, most playmaking, Worst defense

LaMelo- Miller-Ace-Miles-Mark
- Good shooting, Great size, least playmaking, good defense

LaMelo-VJ-Miller-Miles-Mark
- Worst shooting, smallest lineup, good playmaking, best defense

Probably 1. Tres shooting with lamelo playmaking could be amazing but im generally ok with any of the 3.

[Braggins]

Tre hasn't been a better playmaker than VJ so far.

Tre ~ 3.2 ast/70 ~ 16.5% ast% ~ 1.50 ast/tov
VJ ~ 4.3 ast/70 ~ 19.2% ast% ~ 1.66 ast/tov

[JMAC3]

Tre hasn't been a better playmaker than VJ so far.

Tre ~ 3.2 ast/70 ~ 16.5% ast% ~ 1.50 ast/tov
VJ ~ 4.3 ast/70 ~ 19.2% ast% ~ 1.66 ast/tov

Yeah I just think Tre has a better handle and I would say the film in my opinion Tre shows a bit more of a natural knack for passing with creativity. I think it is close though and open to this being a discussion because that could be enough to swing me one way or another between the 2.

[fatlever]

Which lineup do you like the best?

LaMelo-Tre-Miller-Miles-Mark
- Most shooting, Good size, most playmaking, Worst defense

LaMelo- Miller-Ace-Miles-Mark
- Good shooting, Great size, least playmaking, good defense

LaMelo-VJ-Miller-Miles-Mark
- Worst shooting, smallest lineup, good playmaking, best defense

none of it is ideal, all dependent on melo, miller and mark getting stronger.

option 1 - cant defend at all. would have miles acting as lead defender against best perimeter player, no true poa defender, only 2 guys with rim pressure, would lee play fast enough to use strengths and hide weakness? 3pt shooting would be nice.
option 2 - only 2 players who can put ball on floor, would need miller growing his playmaking to work, no true poa defender, very switchable, would rely on length, might work with smart defenders, which we are not, lots contested of jumpers,
option 3 - kinda sits in-between the other two, would need vj to become a solid 3pt shooter, still enough size, its not a small lineup, just not biggest, i dont see the size as an issue here 6-7, 6-4, 6-9, 6-7, 7-0... thats plenty big, need to play fast to take advantage of fast break

i truly believe tre/ace would come off bench for a season or two, until roster is more balanced. most coaches would still want a poa defender to start games to keep melo out of foul trouble. i think vj is into starting lineup by december at latest, replacing green. not saying that alone should dictate pick, its long-term.

[fatlever]

bottom line... i dont think melo-miller-ace or melo-tre-miller works long-term. probably requires a future trade to balance roster, which is fine. we should be open to whatever at this point.

[countryboi]

Tre and Miller would actually knock down those dimes Melo be handing out, I like Johnson more than most because its a shooting league and he can shoot in spades. him and melo both being weak defensively is going to be a problem though

[luciano-davidwesley]

I don't care about starting 5 fit for next season at all. Draft talent and trade/sign for fit later.